Did a certain someone willingly become a member of the True Organisation?



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Veevee

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Hello everyone,
I chose the title to avoid spoilers, I'm referring to Saix / Isa. I know this doesn't matter much, but I always wondered whether Saix willingly became a Seeker of Darkness.
I always saw Saix as being quite loyal and obedient to Xemnas partly because he didn't want to arouse suspicion while working on his own (and Axel's) agenda, partly because they were (temporarily) working on the same goal - forming Kingdom Hearts. Over time, he additionally became tired of / angry on Axel who in his eyes betrayed him and their shared plans, so I guess he would have reasons to choose the fraction that opposes Axel, Roxas and in part, Sora. Still, I wonder whether Xehanort implanted his little Xehanort-brainwash-thingy into him by force or if Saix actually let him because he thought it might be his best shot to ... I don't know, being a being?
The secret ending in Coded adds a little more mystery to it. Braig asks Young Xehanort which poor soul he is going to choose and the scene ends with Young Xehanort saying a name beginning with a sharp S (which could point to either Sora or Saix). If he was referring to Saix, he would've been game in that moment as he lay there unconscious. Axel later reacts worried about Isa's whereabouts and is shocked to find him by Xehanort's side but it remains unclear whether he is shocked in general to see Isa there or whether he was actually afraid something like this might have happened. Saix didn't seem too reluctant to be there, but on the other side, he never showed the widest range of emotions so he wouldn't begin to do it after having already become a vessel.

I hope I haven't confused any facts since it's a while since I have played / watched Re:Com / Days so correct my if I portrayed things wrong. Feel free to share your opinion on this one!
 
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Muke

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I honestly don't think so -- I think Xigbar is more likely to willingly have become a Seeker.

In the secret ending you mentioned, we see that Braig is already working together with Master(/Young) Xehanort, he undoubtedly gets some benefits from being norted, we just don't know what. He's probably still a fan of the Keyblade and wants his own, but who knows. The fact that Saïx is the one they chose, he didn't willingly becoming a Seeker (or at least he didn't actively want to).
 

Not Ienzo

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Ever since 3D that he wants Kingdom Hearts for an ulterior motive like the rest of the True Organization, and that he knew that Kingdom Hearts wasn't to bring his heart back.

Maybe that's why YX chose Saix, because he was one of the most loyal members and knew the truth of Xehanort's plans, along with Xigbar/Braig.
 

Alja

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I can't really picture Saix willingly becoming a member. I mean, he's got the golden eyes and pointy ears back in 358/2 Days already, so at that point, he had already received a part of Xehanort. Of course it's unknown when exactly, but at least in the beginning I can't picture Saix leaving Axel "behind" like that, since even in Days, he still held onto their plan when he should already have been a vessel.

But then again it's also unknown who exactly we fought. Was it Isa as he had come back or was it a time traveling Saix? Same goes for Braig/Xigbar, it's still unknown which version exactly is present in DDD (maybe both versions are present, but one hidden behind the cloaks?).
 

DarkGrey Heroine

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Hmm, to me it's possible that Isa joined the Organization willingly, together with Lea. In BBS, we see them with the intention to go to Radiant Garden's castle, where Ansem the Wise and his pupils studied and worked. Could mean that they wanted certain information about something, maybe they heard suspicious rumors about the heart research going on there and, even if at that point Ansem the Wise didn't do anything bad, Isa and Lea wanted to check. Or maybe they wanted explanations regarding the Unversed, can't be that they didn't notice them as they were everywhere. Lea and Isa could have been hangin' around with the researchers, then notice how the "new apprentice", who we know was the human-looking heartless of Terra-Xehanort by that time, was a rather fishy dude. They notice Braig sided with him, so out of interest they also got closer, professionally-speaking. I... don't know how to build the rest of what happened, but there surely was a mass-murder heart-extraction by ??Xehanort??'s hand, as Lea, Aeleas, Dilan, Even and Ienzo were flat dead on the floor in one of the research rooms until their awakening and that's the place Braig got stabbed too, so logically Isa fell there together with the others... or did he?

Saix was not the most loyal Organization member, he only seemed to be the most loyal, as in this scene Axel knows and, in a most likely retoric tone, asks Saix is those were indeed Xemnas's orders, and not those of Saix himself. Saix apparently wanted to dispose of the traitor members and he wanted to find the Chamber of Waking too, these two things overlap perfectly with the general Organization goals and measures, so his true thoughts were hidden well behind a face of loyality. That's only appearances...

KH 358/2 Days: Day 117 Saix and Axel dialogue
Saix: (...) Xemnas has an agenda he hasn't told to anybody. And we ((that is, Saix and Axel)) are bound to find some clues in the Chamber of Waking. And once we obtain those clues, we'll have the upper hand for our own objectives.
Axel: I knew the time would come when Vexen and Zexion got in your way. That's why I took the initiative... and cleared the way to the top for you. I can handle all the dirty work. You go all the way to the top.
This dialogue proves that they are still following a plan of their own, a plan created by most probably Isa in the beginning, since Axel uses "your way" instead of "our way", even though they are close friends. From how they speak of this, it's clear that they believe in each other and in their personal shared goal, keeping a cool head and moving on even if it's hard and even in times of doubt, when Axel felt differently, felt well around Roxas and Xion, getting attached to them and starting to dislike Saix's behaviour, the coldness between them or the obligations they had to follow together for so long without a choice and in secret. If their objectives, their plan needed them both joining the Organization, then it means they both joined willingly and I believe they did, for motives unknown yet. However, if Saix betrayed Axel, or if Axel betrayed Lea, the seeds of doubt were already in their friendship and who really knows if they didn't lose their initial way... and started something else.
 

FangirlfromHell

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I doubt that Isa willingly became a member of the true Organization partially due to how he behaves in Dream Drop Distance. Saix/Isa is very unresponsive and he lacks any display of personality. I think his goal was to find out what Xemnas' true agenda was, which was why he worked his way up to being so 'close' to Xemnas with his displays of loyalty. This is all only discovered if you play 358/2 Days though and is missable if you only play KH2. Which goes into why players really should play ALL of the console titles. For now X(chi) is the only one that is optional as some people (myself included) do not have access to a smart phone or tablet in order to actually play it. Unless it becomes computer compatible I have to rely on just watching and reading about it (which I'd still be doing if I didn't find it so boring: OPINION).

Braig on the other hand has been in cahoots with Master Xehanort since the old man arrived in Radiant Garden. So it is very likely he willingly went down the path of the true Organization but in Dream Drop Distance we also see that he has quite a bit of his own personality left behind. There is a cut scene where he is truly affected by Sora's determination and seems almost fearful when the dream shows all the other keyblade wielders behind Sora (minus Eraqus and MX obviously XD).

So to round us back to the beginning: Do I think Isa/Saix chose his fate? No, I really don't. But always remember Master Xehanort's favorite line, "Destiny is never left to chance."
 

Sorami_Eclipse

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AS SOMEONE WHO LOVES SAIX, I MAY BE A LITTLE BIASED

But I don't think he willingly decided to join the True Organization. Something that kept nagging me is the fact that Isa was loyal to Lea, and I don't think that a friendship like theirs is just going to evaporate because of Axel getting closer to Roxas and Xion. I can't think of the exact quote, but I remember Axel saying something like Isa had changed since he became a nobody, and I thought about how Saix was the one who really wanted to make Kingdom Hearts a reality to have a heart again (or at least that's what it seemed like to me in KH2; I only saw the cinematic of 358/2 days), which lead me to thinking about how Xemnas may have used this to his advantage to manipulate Saix, maybe doing something like "I can make you feel like you have a heart again," and giving him a part of his to nortify him. Then I guess in there would be an internal struggle- Saix's (growing?) heart vs. the Xehanort piece, in which case Xehanort's heart would win since Saix's might still be growing and is very weak from a result. Saix would then be influenced by Xehanort, if not already taken over by him, and it may explain why Saix/Isa is seen in DDD. Not necessarily because he wants to, but because he is being controlled.

But then what would Xemnas gain from this? He would be able to know that they were planning to overthrow him, and who would be the ones to lead it. Knowing this, Xehanort sent the ones who were going to betray him (as well as Axel) to CO because he knew Axel was loyal to Saix as well, so Axel wouldn't give a moment's hesitation to take them out. Then once the threat is over, Saix starts to deviate himself from Axel, and starts to become closer to Xemnas, in which case he is now told everything because he is now more loyal to Xemnas from the Xehnort-piece that's influencing him.

But idk, maybe I'm just hoping this isn't really Saix. And part of this thinking (not all of it) was influenced by this theory I read a couple months back that I wish I could find but I don't remember how. idk.
 

Veevee

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Thanks for all your opinions! Being a huge fan of Saix (my favorite Organisation member, yay!) I sure hope he didn't bring this upon himself willingly. On the one hand I think he was so longing for a heart that he really might have been involved in some shady deal with Xemnas - willingly or unwillingly, maybe he became so blind that he didn't notice how he was norted. On the other hand, I always thought of his somebody as a strong-willed person. Of course also his nobody was, but in a different way. One of the big questions that I ask myself concerning the topic is which one it was Lea fought in DDD - was it Isa or Saix? If it was Isa, he would indeed have no need of cooperating with Xemnas (he had his heart back) plus it would've been a lot harder to take over his heart even though he was unconscious (he sure would've struggled in his mind). If it was Saix and perhaps of an earlier point in time where he was the most pissed on Axel, he might've seen this as a chance to take revenge of Axel and get a heart. IF there was some kind of deal involved, Xemnas surely wouldn't have told him the whole story and would have left out the nort part.

Otherwise I don't see a reason for a cooperation between Xemnas and Saix. If Saix was suspicious of Xemnas having his own agenda and was so interested in finding out, it means that Saix must've smelled a possible betrayal against the organisation on side of Xemnas. He cooperated to find out, but when he was unable to find something that made the matter more clear to him, why did he still stick to a man who he didn't find trustworthy? It might be because he longed for a heart that much that he was willing to risk danger coming from Xemnas, but I find it more likely that a witty man like Saix already had some nort in him that messed a little with his thinking. When Axel "turned" on him (in his opinion), he was angered and blind which Xemnas / Xehanort could use to manifest the nort in him. I consider Saix a person who is basically very loyal, but if really angered, he might hate you for it. He didn't see exactly saddened / moved when the Organisation decided to kill Axel as a traitor in KH2.

I really really hope that he didn't do this by his own free will and that Kingdom Hearts 3 will resolve the matter without killing him. If he is to be saved, I don't expect Isa and Lea to be best buddies again right away, but something like Isa leaving and Lea trying to reach him, maybe succeeding in it after several tries and they grow together again after a while.
 
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