Apprentice Xehanort is irrelevant



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Gram

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Now calm yourself, let me explain.

It's obvious that Xehanort's Heartless, Ansem seeker of darkness, is a continuation of who he was as a human. The heartless are born from the heart, that heart's darkness forms the heartless, and it's that lack of self and loosing of the mind that makes the heartless mindless.

However Ansem persisted. His mind wasn't lost to the overwhelming darkness that formed him. The evidence is everywhere, especially the reports.
The first 10 or so are written of when he's human with the others written after the experiment took place (cause one report mentions the transformation) and it's obvious from those reports his state of mind did not alter. It merely continued.

Who Ansem was before being heartless is the same as who he was after becoming heartless but therein lies the question "who was Ansem before"? Whose mind is persisting?

Who was this mind ruling the being as a human that continued to reside after he lost his humanity? The logical answer is Apprentice Xehanort but is that the truth?

"Apprentice" Xehanort is a theorized possible 4th personality born in the absence of memory within Terranort. (Terranort-Memories=Apprentice)
This memory loss has been called into question in recent years but I say whether he truly lost his memory or not is in fact an irrelevant matter.

Fans of this particular version, that has only had 2 to 3 scenes of time at most, are likely demanding my logic well let's consider what we know of this elusive matter.

Throughout the reports of KH1 and 2, it is shown in his own writing and most notably in the writings/comments of Ansem the Wise (DiZ) that "Apprentice Xehanort" had a vast curiosity, readily absorbed everything he was taught and most importantly his total lack of regard for other life by experimenting on other people.

Now I know Terra & Eraqus aren't idiots but their not scholars either, nor have they ever showed a large amount of curiosity and by no means are they okay with experimenting on people.

All the things detailed show traits Xehanort would have.

This tells me that even if the memory loss was real that Xehanort was the one controlling the body. So it's not truly a case of a new personality/heart but just Xehanort having a temporary case of forgetfulness which obviously wasn't long lasting.
In the end the whole scenario would've been a more simpler case of Xehanort finally remembering who he was.

And if real world cases of amnesia are anything to go by, it shows that those who remember who they are either merge with the persona they had due to memory loss or the persona from before encompasses the newer one.
Apply that to AX and MX and it only shows that whether memory loss was real or not is irrelevant because MX obviously returned regardless by the time of the experiment when he pulled out his/MX's keyblade and went on his little stab spree.

And to finally tie it all together I point you to this statement here:
— What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.
The host heart is imprisoned by MX. Simpler put they are no longer a factor for him. The thing that caused this supposed amnesia was Terranort turning MX's keyblade on himself in an attempt to stop Terra's interference.

Of course the attempt went array. Rather than being forced out everything became locked.

Now take the above theory into account with this fact. The locking combined with MX tendency to imprison his host....it would make sense that Eraqus who already seemed more or less dormant in Terra and Terra who was resisting were put into sleep/dormancy by Xehanort's locking also either locking his own memories along with them or his feinting the amnesia.
---------------------

In the end I'm saying "Apprentice Xehanort" was MX all along with either his memories locked away with Terra & Eraqus or him truly faking it from the start.
Regardless of either scenario the one running the show was MX showing his true colors and then who subsequently divided himself along with his victims forming Ansem.

The mind ruling Ansem' human form, Master Xehanort, continued to persist after the transformation which I think is shown by Ansem's choice of clothing, his speech and even the hand gestures.
And most importantly of all, Ansem in his robed figure form, going back in time to Young Xehanort. He'd have to actually remember being Master Xehanort to remember being YX and by extension remember/know where and when to travel too in order to recruit him.

Ansem is MX and MX is Ansem. Leaving what was left (terra's body+soul, some memories, and depending on your theory standpoint even Terra/Eraqus himself) to form Xemnas who is described by Nomura to function under separate minds but still "essentially the same man" as Ansem.
(Xemnas becomes the "other Xehanort" going with the nobodies theme of "another self")
 
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ChibiHearts249

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I'm in total agreement with pretty much all of this.

But I think the reason why he slowly remembered things is kinda like 'muscle memory.' Take a video game controller, for instance. Not too many people who've played games for a long time remember how uncomfortable and unnatural a controller feels at first. We've used the tool for so long that it simply becomes an extension of us. We have the 'muscle memory' to know where the buttons are, how quickly to press, or how much pressure to apply.

But have you ever passed off the controller to a non-gamer, or a PC-only gamer that doesn't use controllers? You're screaming, "Use X to attack, doofus!" and they're shouting, "Where in the name of Sam Hill is the X button?!" And they have to look at the controller to find it. Same with old arcade cabinets. Or even everyday stuff like folding laundry.

Well, Xehanort's heart was the main driving force in Apprentice Xehanort's body (Terra's body), so even if his mind didn't remember those things, his heart had the 'muscle memory' for doing them. It was in his nature. Even if he had no recollection at first, he didn't really have a choice but to be true to his personality.

Suppose he never actually REMEMBERED his past, but he researched it. Surely there were records of Xehanort's deeds, or maybe journals he kept for himself that AX discovered? If he was being true to his heart, he would've WANTED to fulfill those wishes; to follow those footsteps, execute this brilliant master's plan, and see it through to the end. If it's what Xehanort himself wanted, his heart would remember and try to follow the same path.
 

Gram

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^ The muscle memory is a good analogy of what I'm getting at. =] He was running on the "muscle memory" of his heart, the subconscious and underlining traits of which all of us have, with him one day finally remembering everything.

Suppose he never actually REMEMBERED his past, but he researched it. Surely there were records of Xehanort's deeds, or maybe journals he kept for himself that AX discovered? If he was being true to his heart, he would've WANTED to fulfill those wishes; to follow those footsteps, execute this brilliant master's plan, and see it through to the end. If it's what Xehanort himself wanted, his heart would remember and try to follow the same path.
Even if MX left things behind to research the amnesiac Xehanort wouldn't be able to find them as I doubt he left them in Radiant Garden since most of his time seems spent in the Keyblade Graveyard.
If he couldn't remember how to get to them he therefore can't find them.

And due to the wielders stance of secrecy I doubt there's any records of him in a worlds history for him to stumble upon.
 

ChibiHearts249

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Even if MX left things behind to research the amnesiac Xehanort wouldn't be able to find them as I doubt he left them in Radiant Garden since most of his time seems spent in the Keyblade Graveyard.
If he couldn't remember how to get to them he therefore can't find them.
I'm sure the great Master Xehanort had contingency plans stacked atop failsafes, stacked on backups, with a cherry of Plan B's on top! :D

And don't forget others whom he might've influenced, and the things he might've told them~ (BraigBraigBraig)

Totally theoretical, of course!
 

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I'm sure the great Master Xehanort had contingency plans stacked atop failsafes, stacked on backups, with a cherry of Plan B's on top! :D

And don't forget others whom he might've influenced, and the things he might've told them~ (BraigBraigBraig)

Totally theoretical, of course!
I find the Braig idea more plausible. Contingency plans doesn't necessarily equal facilities and the like. We don't even know of MX kept files. The only one that seems to have practiced that was his amnesic self.

EDIT:

Forgot the reports of BBS so the idea of at least papers holding his thoughts aren't out of the question. x3
 

ChibiHearts249

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I find the Braig idea more plausible. Contingency plans doesn't necessarily equal facilities and the like. We don't even know of MX kept files. The only one that seems to have practiced that was his amnesic self.
Yeah, Xehanort doesn't seem like a Plan B sorta guy. He's the kinda guy who figures things out so precisely the first time that no matter how poorly it may seem to go, it's still in his favor. He's probly a Chess Master that just wants to be a Keyblade Master like everybody else! (I kid~)

But Apprentice Xehanort would most likely get some new habit alongside the old. Differing life experiences, and all.
 

Gram

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Yeah, Xehanort doesn't seem like a Plan B sorta guy. He's the kinda guy who figures things out so precisely the first time that no matter how poorly it may seem to go, it's still in his favor. He's probly a Chess Master that just wants to be a Keyblade Master like everybody else! (I kid~)

But Apprentice Xehanort would most likely get some new habit alongside the old. Differing life experiences, and all.
Agreed and at most even when his plans fail he still manages to walk away from it with some sort of gain showing that rather than contingencies or plan B's that has multiple ways to keep the same plan going.
BBS plan failed so he then decides to do it the "proper way" which is a plan Ansem and Xemnas each took half of and even after their defeat he was still able to pull together the means to continue that plan and now with the benefit that he's whole again.

Like I mentioned in the real world amnesia cases, either the old persona overshadows the new one or they merge into a singularity. It's likely the latter happened with MX taking in the new experiences, ideas and habits he gained while amnesic.
He's methodical so if it's useful, he's a man that'd use it.
 

ChibiHearts249

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Now calm yourself, let me explain.
I am so calm that the cucumbers are jealous of how cool I am~

I wonder if anyone else is gonna chip in? Cuz we've been beating this subject to death so well that I need new input or...I might run out of ideas! (Le gasp!)


Aaaaaaanyway; we've got Braig tickling his ear with stuff, notes he might've left for himself, and meticulously well-laid plans that could utilize most ANY outcome. Hmmm. Yup. I really need fresh fodder! ^_^'
 

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Bit surprised. Was expecting more resistance to this type of thread by now. Interesting. owo

But to add more fodder, since ya want it, if AX is irrelevant do you think that makes Terranort moot as well? After all he got what? One boss fight and a scene or two?
 

ChibiHearts249

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Bit surprised. Was expecting more resistance to this type of thread by now. Interesting. owo

But to add more fodder, since ya want it, if AX is irrelevant do you think that makes Terranort moot as well? After all he got what? One boss fight and a scene or two?
Well, Terranort being moot means that there's no beginning to Xehanort's 2nd cycle. They needed to explain how exactly we get from points A-B, and he's definitely the "missing link." The two are in a completely different league.

I wanna say more, but my phone's dying again! AUGH!!! So much angry at not creating large block of text to dispute theory!!!!
 

Gram

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Well, Terranort being moot means that there's no beginning to Xehanort's 2nd cycle. They needed to explain how exactly we get from points A-B, and he's definitely the "missing link." The two are in a completely different league.
Good point. At the very most Terranort and AX served the purpose of stepping stones to Ansem/Xemnas.
 

ChibiHearts249

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You should rename this the "Gram and Chibi talk about Xehanort's selves" thread! ;D

I guess you could argue Terranort's actual RELEVANCY. Sine BbS was used to fill in the gaps and not planned to be made since the very beginning...Pretty much anything that happens is just to fill in. So they could've not had Terranort. What if they'd decided to just have Terra go to the Dark Side and simply follow up with Xehanort's wishes? The outcome wouldst been the same, and arguably he'd still be a person to "rescue" in KH3.
But they didn't want him to be TOO much like Riku...Makes me think of that old trailer again.
 

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If this keeps I may have too. xD

Actually, in contrast to most titles, BBS was an intended game since KH2 was being worked on but given the early shots of Terra I wonder if the story was the same.
Tbh I don't think being to much like Riku would've hurt Terra. Terra would've been the case of going to far and Riku the example of redemption.
It'd tie in nicely to the fact that Xehanort led Riku to darkness. =3
 

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Apprentice Xehanort probably won't be one of the iterations of Xehanort featured in KHIII, since SOD is sort of a beefed up version of him with a big ass guardian to defend him. Besides, he seems kind of shrimpy, so I doubt he'd make a good boss fight.
 

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Ever since it was shown MX returning I've doubted seeing the Apprentice as well.
 

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If they gave Apprentice Xehanort some cool gimmick, I really wouldn't mind his inclusion. Here's an idea, let him fight using data, making things from prior games appear and protect him while he fights you. That'd be fun. I just don't want to fight a bunch of keyblade wielding Xehanorts, because that's super lame.
 

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That's not a bad idea actually. Hopefully most of the Xehanort's stick to their normal weapons rather than going all YX and borrowing MX's keyblade.
 

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I'm hoping that the Xehanorts use their typical weapons, but perhaps kick it up a notch. Xemnas and Ansem felt a bit samey in DDD, but I'd rather have that with variety as opposed to a bunch of keyblade duels. That's kind of why YMX bored me.

But yeah, Apprentice Xehanort COULD reappear, they'd just have to make some adjustments and add things.
 

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Perhaps the idea Sephiroth0812 once proposed. The vessels, at least the ones being saved, fight with their typical weapons then when they move to free them of Xehanort, Sora & Riku use their heart diving power to go within and fight off the Xehanort-seed with the imprisoned heart.
In which the Xehanort-seed would pull out a keyblade.
 

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I'm totally down for a bunch of bosses! Challenge me!

But it'd be great if you got to fight each one as an INDIVIDUAL rather than the whole "branch of Xehanort" thing we got goin on.

Honestly my big question is Young Xehanort in general. I mean, we've covered how the Apprentice probly got to understanding things. We talked about Terranort's relevancy in general...but what about YMX? How exactly does HE fit in? He doubts his future self on occasion (which i get), but you're telling me that since time is messed up that YMX always knew who he'd become? If he doubts, then how did he end up like that, anyway? Scrooge chose to change. Why not YMX?
 
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