A theory about Xehanort/Nobodies

[mooglekupor]

Okay so I had the first idea around the time when the first DDD trailer came out and had the second idea when the second trailer was shown to the public.
1. Master Xehanort was said to return and there might be more than MX.Since his heartless and nobody was destroyed, they both faded into darkness (cuz you know the guy was evil and stuff). Because he could use darkness so well, what if he figured out a way so that even when his "parts" would be killed, he would still maintain some sort of conscience after death, so that all of his forms would be restored by the darkness? If this would be true I'm guessing it is his heart that did the trick since it wasn't destroyed, and that way he would prove his idea of the heart being born in the darkness.
2. Roxas was a special nobody and there is this debate whether he does or doesn't have a heart. What if he wasn't THAT special, but all the Nobodies were special? Confused? let me explain: we know that Nobodies don't have hearts. We also know that they might remember how it was having a heart. The heart in KH contains the essence, feelings of people. Some of the org. members embraced their former selves, "acting like they have a heart". But what's the point of acting in front of the other members? To outsiders it may seem like acting but it isn't. They were actually showing their feelings. How is it posible? It's cause they all have hearts, but not the same as normal hearts. Think of it as a container like a heart container from Legend of Zelda. The more feelings you have the closer you are to being a somebody again. These feelings also get stronger as you experience more feelings.The key is to remember the past, one's former self before becoming a Nobody. In the recent trailer it is stated that Nobodies have hearts too, so this theory might not be total nonsense.
Sorry for all the grammatical errors I've made here, and for the poor use of words too. Wrote this at 1,30 AM.

 

[Crazy Mario]

1. Master Xehanort is coming back because his two parts are coming together which is what happens when your Heartless and Nobody is destroyed. They weren't fading into darkness.

2. Roxas DOES have a heart, Ven's. He, unlike the other members, was able to faintly feel emotions. He thought it was nothing, but it was actually something. All of the other Nobodies don't have hearts except for maybe Xemnas and possibly had Terra's heart because Master Xehanort's went to form Ansem. If they had hearts and could feel emotion, what was the point of them following the Organization in the first place?

 

[SeaSalt]

contrary to demyx's saying "oh we do too have hearts", nobodies do not have hearts,

only exceptions are roxas (as cape mario said) and possibly xemnas.

on the other hand namine is a special nobody and noone knows whats going on with her soo..

 

[Crazy Mario]

contrary to demyx's saying "oh we do too have hearts", nobodies do not have hearts,

only exceptions are roxas (as cape mario said) and possibly xemnas.

on the other hand namine is a special nobody and noone knows whats going on with her soo..

Actually, we don't even know if she IS a Nobody. DiZ just called her that because her creation was similar to theirs. Who knows, maybe this process can bring about similar being in Master Xehanort's abandoned body?

 

[SeaSalt]

Actually, we don't even know if she IS a Nobody. DiZ just called her that because her creation was similar to theirs. Who knows, maybe this process can bring about similar being in Master Xehanort's abandoned body?

well if we put namine in terms of xehanort...

(at time of roxas birth)
Sora = Ven + Sora + Kairi

(at time of terranort birth)
Xehanort = Xehanort + Terra + Eraqus

Sora:
Ven -> Roxas
Kairi -> Namine, Kairi
Sora -> Sora's Heartless

Xehanort:
Xehanort -> Terranort / AX
Terra -> Terranort / AX
Eraqus -> ?

 

[Crazy Mario]

well if we put namine in terms of xehanort...

(at time of roxas birth)
Sora = Ven + Sora + Kairi

(at time of terranort birth)
Xehanort = Xehanort + Terra + Eraqus

Sora:
Ven -> Roxas
Kairi -> Namine, Kairi
Sora -> Sora's Heartless

Xehanort:
Xehanort -> Terranort / AX
Terra -> Terranort / AX
Eraqus -> ?

I'm talking about the materials used. Namine was created from Kairi's heart, but in the body and soul of Sora. Master Xehanort willingly gave his heart to Terra and without the heart falling to darkness, it can't produce a Nobody or Heartless. So, we don't know what remained after that.

Also, Eraqus died since his body was damaged by a blast from Master Xehanort which destroyed his body, aka, killing him. The only thing left is his heart which is inside Terra.

 

[SeaSalt]

I'm talking about the materials used. Namine was created from Kairi's heart, but in the body and soul of Sora. Master Xehanort willingly gave his heart to Terra and without the heart falling to darkness, it can't produce a Nobody or Heartless. So, we don't know what remained after that.

Also, Eraqus died since his body was damaged by a blast from Master Xehanort which destroyed his body, aka, killing him. The only thing left is his heart which is inside Terra.

yeah and a lot of things could have happened that made something like eraqus leave or something like that. virtually anything couldve happened which can be summed up in "bbsv2" because that time period really is a free zone for any plot changers to happen between BBS and KH1.

 

[mooglekupor]

contrary to demyx's saying "oh we do too have hearts", nobodies do not have hearts,

You didn't watch the newest trailer? Xemnas himself says that Nobodies do have hearts.

Also, Eraqus died since his body was damaged by a blast from Master Xehanort which destroyed his body, aka, killing him. The only thing left is his heart which is inside Terra.

Which means he is not dead. Death as a them hasn't been explored yet in the KH universe.

 

[SeaSalt]

You didn't watch the newest trailer? Xemnas himself says that Nobodies do have hearts.

um what when did this happen

 

[Sephiroth0812]

You didn't watch the newest trailer? Xemnas himself says that Nobodies do have hearts.

Xemnas is speaking of a "heartless doll" where a heart resides in which can mean either Riku Replica, Xion or Pinocchio, not about nobodies.
It may be that nobodies have something "reminiscent" of a heart, like a shadow or something (they must, after all, store the memories they create newly for themselves somewhere), but not a real fully functionable heart.
If nobodies would already have a fully functionable heart they wouldn't be called incomplete existences.
Not to mention Roxas would then lose quite a bit of his unique status, Ven's heart reduced to only being responsible for his appearance and the second keyblade.

Which means he is not dead. Death as a them hasn't been explored yet in the KH universe.

That depends on how we define "death". Death as a definite cessation of existence doesn't exist in the KH Universe as the basic essence of a person can apparently remain.
But unlike any others Eraqus's body got definitely destroyed in BBS. Even if death in KH is "only" a state of sleep I doubt you can just anyone wake up by snapping a finger.
Even such shows as Dragonball or Sailor Moon which are known for bringing people back to life have at least some conditions to fulfill.

On one thing you're right though, the whole "Birth by Sleep"-concept and "return to the world"-thingy has not been explored yet. We only know there is a possibility according to Ansem the Wise in Blank Points and Nomura's words, but how all this works is still in the dark and I could imagine we'll get the explanation either completely in Dream Drop Distance or one part in there and the other finally in KH III.

I very, very strongly doubt that bringing someone "back" who once disappeared is as easy as some people here assume it to be.

 

[SeaSalt]

It may be that nobodies have something "reminiscent" of a heart, like a shadow or something (they must, after all, store the memories they create newly for themselves somewhere), but not a real fully functionable heart.
If nobodies would already have a fully functionable heart they wouldn't be called incomplete existences.


That depends on how we define "death". Death as a definite cessation of existence doesn't exist in the KH Universe as the basic essence of a person can apparently remain.
But unlike any others Eraqus's body got definitely destroyed in BBS. Even if death in KH is "only" a state of sleep I doubt you can just anyone wake up by snapping a finger.

.

i thik that there are certain states of sleep, like a deep sleep (eraqus) and a lesser sleep (roxas) because roxas can be seen in sora, and he was not destroyed, rather he accpeted going back to sora.

if the xehanort saga is going to end, i believe they would have to put him in the deepest sleep possible, one he cant awaken from. sort of like jafar going into the lamp.

 

[mooglekupor]

Xemnas is speaking of a "heartless doll" where a heart resides in which can mean either Riku Replica, Xion or Pinocchio, not about nobodies.
It may be that nobodies have something "reminiscent" of a heart, like a shadow or something (they must, after all, store the memories they create newly for themselves somewhere), but not a real fully functionable heart.
If nobodies would already have a fully functionable heart they wouldn't be called incomplete existences.
Not to mention Roxas would then lose quite a bit of his unique status, Ven's heart reduced to only being responsible for his appearance and the second keyblade..

Read my original post, I was trying to imply with the "heart container" metaphor that they have something similar to a heart instead of a normal heart. Also, part of my theory is that Roxas isn't so special as others noted so far, thus losing his unique status but so what? That doesn't change a thing.

That depends on how we define "death". Death as a definite cessation of existence doesn't exist in the KH Universe as the basic essence of a person can apparently remain.
But unlike any others Eraqus's body got definitely destroyed in BBS. Even if death in KH is "only" a state of sleep I doubt you can just anyone wake up by snapping a finger.
Even such shows as Dragonball or Sailor Moon which are known for bringing people back to life have at least some conditions to fulfill.

I define death as losing someone permanently, without the slightest possibility of bringing that person back to life. The dead person has no key part or organ functioning/alive.
I agree on what you said about reviving someone being difficult, but come one: we're talking about a Keyblade Master here, Eraqus. I'm almost 100 percent sure he had a plan B in case things go really bad, and several BBS clips prove this. If we will experience death in the way I wrote it , Xehanort would be the one to most likely die, since it is his saga that's going to end with KHIII.

On one thing you're right though, the whole "Birth by Sleep"-concept and "return to the world"-thingy has not been explored yet. We only know there is a possibility according to Ansem the Wise in Blank Points and Nomura's words, but how all this works is still in the dark and I could imagine we'll get the explanation either completely in Dream Drop Distance or one part in there and the other finally in KH III.

I very, very strongly doubt that bringing someone "back" who once disappeared is as easy as some people here assume it to be.

Finally someone agrees with me in something. I thought people come here to argue with me non-stop, but it's so heartwarming that someone notices my point

 

[digimikej]

ok, i watched the jump festa trailer, and i did not see xemnas anywhere.except the epic CG part, at all. i saw YX, yea, and vanitas for 3 seconds, but no xemnas. can someone give me a link or something? i am interested.

 

[Marx15]

ok, i watched the jump festa trailer, and i did not see xemnas anywhere.except the epic CG part, at all. i saw YX, yea, and vanitas for 3 seconds, but no xemnas. can someone give me a link or something? i am interested.

Did you watch the short one or the long one....because there is a scene showing Xemnas in Prankster's Paradise, and he is speaking with Sora.

[video=youtube;Zlex8ja2eNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Zlex8ja2eNI#t=431s[/video]

You see him at 7:12

 

[SeaSalt]

Did you watch the short one or the long one....because there is a scene showing Xemnas in Prankster's Paradise, and he is speaking with Sora.

You see him at 7:12

thats our way of knowing that sora is still clueless and knows nothing about nobodies

the orginization always referred to Xion as the doll.

 

[digimikej]

OH MY GOD i totally missed that. its amazing, because xemnas is my favorite character and i suck up xemnas news like a sponge.

 

[mooglekupor]

thats our way of knowing that sora is still clueless and knows nothing about nobodies

the orginization always referred to Xion as the doll.

Some members did, some not. Not everyone knew about the replica project, and not everyone viewed it as a failure (in the beginning). That includes Xemnas too.

And pay attention to what Sora says. He wasn't always dumb, he had a functioning brain prior to KHII and data Sora was also using his brain in coded. When Sora doesnt depend on idiots like Donald, he might figure out a thing or two. He says: "Don't you all have hearts too?" in a different translation I saw " Even Nobodies have hearts?"

 

[chasespicer056]

thats our way of knowing that sora is still clueless and knows nothing about nobodies

the orginization always referred to Xion as the doll.

Now THIS is unlikely. Sora's far from a genius, but he was the one who called out Xemnas for pretending to have emotions in KH2.

If anything, Sora's question implies that he learned something about the beings within the dreams. Perhaps in this dream realm Xemnas or even Ansem SOD do have hearts.

 

[Hillboy]

When he says doll hes talking about Pinochio not Xion, (98% sure)

 

[SeaSalt]

Now THIS is unlikely. Sora's far from a genius, but he was the one who called out Xemnas for pretending to have emotions in KH2.

If anything, Sora's question implies that he learned something about the beings within the dreams. Perhaps in this dream realm Xemnas or even Ansem SOD do have hearts.

i guess it wasnt a 100% accurate translation because the way i read it made it sound like sora had never heard of nobodies not having hearts before.

saix and xemnas called xion the doll and im pretty sure vexen created her so he knew too. Xigbar also knew and would call her "poppet". and it was sad that axel knew and had to keep it from roxas.

When he says doll hes talking about Pinochio not Xion, (98% sure)

it depends on where he said doll. it would seem unlikely to talk about pinocchio if it wasnt in prankster's paradise.