What will Kairi's role and character in KH3?

[DarkosOverlord]

This is a serious question and not an attempt at hate, but with a character who inspires as much friction as Kairi tends to, aren't these kinds of stories more likely to fuel the people who dislike her than anything else? I was actually thinking about this while reading this thread - in order to flesh out Kairi, she needs some type of conflict, but she gets hit constantly with "useless, damsel in distress, other characters deserve screentime over her" complaints all the time and has for years. Making a storyline for her that focuses on her having massive amounts of self-doubt or faltering when other characters need her won't make that better, it will just make it worse. God forbid she needs to be saved again - that would be it for her as a character.

But at the same time, what are their other options? Keep her more in the background to avoid that so she really is useless to the plot, or make her instantly as good as Riku or Sora at fighting, inciting cries of "Mary Sue" and more dislike? Give her no conflicts at all, which makes her dull personality-wise and easily overlooked again? I just don't know what the best option is, but they wouldn't have had this problem if they hadn't wasted 15 years' of development time and not done anything with her.

That's... I pretty much agree with the general concept: it's really easy to hate this character and she's come to a point where she doesn't have all those roads open.

 

[LightUpTheSky452]

You Can’t Win Without (Your Main Character)... - In Which a Writer Talks About Writing... Or Not.

This is how I feel about the whole issue, honestly.

If Square Enix is finally serious about fleshing Kairi out and treating her like an actual character (like the ending of DDD made it seem like they are), then they need to treat her like they have every other person in this series--like a real person with doubts and things they need to overcome, but with shining qualities, too.

And yes, it does suck that some of this will probably be her "taking the screen away from those who deserve it more", if this happens. And that maybe we'll have to see her fail a few times, so she won't be a Mary-Sue and seem like she's overcome nothing.

But they wrote themselves into a corner in deciding not to do anything with her in fifteen years, and to finally try at the worst time imaginable.

So I think the best thing they can do at this point is go forward with it, tell the best story they can/want to, and let that attract the people it will and also turn off the people that it will.

You can't please everyone.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Does KH really counts as dark when it's less dark than most Disney films? There are plenty of mostly on-screen deaths in Disney films (Tarzan, for one). In KH, when people die they usually fade away in light or Darkness... And then come back afterwards. It's dark, but not something I'd call TOO dark or anything. Dark things are for the most part implied there.

See, that is correct only when you associate "dark" always only with death, outright physical (and thus visual) mutilation and general permanent disappearance.
"Dark" themes and plot points are much more diverse and nuanced than just these overused stock variants of grittiness.

I'm also at somewhat a loss at what "too dark" does even indicate?
The KH series is not and never was a dystopian work that is situated more on the cynic side of things.

This is a serious question and not an attempt at hate, but with a character who inspires as much friction as Kairi tends to, aren't these kinds of stories more likely to fuel the people who dislike her than anything else? I was actually thinking about this while reading this thread - in order to flesh out Kairi, she needs some type of conflict, but she gets hit constantly with "useless, damsel in distress, other characters deserve screentime over her" complaints all the time and has for years. Making a storyline for her that focuses on her having massive amounts of self-doubt or faltering when other characters need her won't make that better, it will just make it worse. God forbid she needs to be saved again - that would be it for her as a character.

But at the same time, what are their other options? Keep her more in the background to avoid that so she really is useless to the plot, or make her instantly as good as Riku or Sora at fighting, inciting cries of "Mary Sue" and more dislike? Give her no conflicts at all, which makes her dull personality-wise and easily overlooked again? I just don't know what the best option is, but they wouldn't have had this problem if they hadn't wasted 15 years' of development time and not done anything with her.

It is certainly that way, and a classical case of "worrying about the child when it has already fallen into the well".

Kairi's overall situation is precarious as is and in order to really get something right with her now that they have apparently decided to give her more focus only in the finale of a whole saga where many other things are still to be addressed, they would need to strike a fine balance.
Yet frankly, knowing the rather mediocre quality of the writing, script and dialogue throughout the series, I am not really confident for them to pull it off smoothly.

And yes, it does suck that some of this will probably be her "taking the screen away from those who deserve it more", if this happens. And that maybe we'll have to see her fail a few times, so she won't be a Mary-Sue and seem like she's overcome nothing.

But they wrote themselves into a corner in deciding not to do anything with her in fifteen years, and to finally try at the worst time imaginable.

So I think the best thing they can do at this point is go forward with it, tell the best story they can/want to, and let that attract the people it will and also turn off the people that it will.

You can't please everyone.

That's the rather delicate balance they would have to strike, as overexposure and too much focus on Kairi (as some fans of her apparently want in order to "make up" of past neglect) I can almost guarantee will result in renewed backlash, possibly even worse than what was after KH 2, yet at the same time giving her too few focus at all would just be continuing the "business as usual".

Indeed, the timing is probably one of the worst they could choose now with all the other important pieces already in place and the finale of a story being at hand where Kairi, while indeed making some undeniably important contributions like restoring Sora, is admittedly mostly only indirectly involved.

 

[Zul]

"Stealing the show" is one of the main reasons for the lash against Xion, so getting it right definitely involves , as you said, a delicate balance.

I don't think heavy exposure to "make up for lost time" is a good idea, ever, for any character.

 

[Elysium]

Well, personally, I've disliked her since KH1, so I'm not sure why KH2 is a reason for anything regarding Kairi? I'll be honest that I don't think giving her screentime would make her any less unlikable to me. Although I like Hayden Panettiere, her voice is kind of annoying and what little dialogue the character had in KH1 rubbed me the wrong way where it concerned Riku. Although with the latter, I think she was a bit nicer in KH2, since I've always loved that she kept Riku from leaving. (Btw, I hated both of her designs... On that point at least, I hope she gets something better in KH3.) Suddenly making her the most important character wouldn't change those things. If anything, it'd probably make me less likely to buy future installments because I have no interest in playing as Kairi or her having major focus in the narrative at this point. I wouldn't mind her as a party member for Sora (along with Riku) with healing/light magic capabilities, but that's about it.

I like most of the other characters outside of some of the bland guy Org. members. I actually like the KH versions of Selphie, Tidus, and Wakka more than Kairi. lol Which is a shame, because I've always wished they would make the PoH relevant again because I like those characters and the concept of their power being used to defend against Xehanort, but it also comes with the cost of more Kairi....

 

[kirabook]

I think one of the best things they can do for Kairi also is probably not what they've done with Xion and more of what they've done with Aqua. I will explain:

Xion: I have mixed feelings on Xion, but in no way do I hate her. She is an example of what I don't like about some fanfictions. A sudden character insert into a backstory not referenced anywhere else really and then a convenient way to make people forget about her. I understand peoples feelings about Xion stealing Namine's relevance, but I also think her friendship with Roxas was interesting (her 'friendship' with Axel is still very.... weird to me. It's much worse than Riku and Kairi imo). Xion's role was to affect Roxas's development and nothing else (yet, who knows if replicas will be relevant again) Nothing against Xion, nothing against Namine. There is not one KH character I can think of that I actually dislike.

Aqua: I know a lot of people have a problem with how BbS handled the friendship between Terra, Ven, and Aqua, but I do not share those feelings. I absolutely love it. People complain about Aqua being somewhat of a satellite character and not heavily involved enough into the actual plot/villains of the game. Kairi is in a similar predicament but in a worse AND better position strangely enough, but I will explain that in a moment. While Aqua was not the target of the bad guys necessarily and did not play a major role in Xehanort's schemes, she did play a major role in where her best friends ended up. Basically, like Sora, Aqua's mission is the safety and well-beings of her friends. Her true affect on the plot isn't seen until years later when she's not even around to see it.

Kairi: And so now we have Kairi. Again I will stress... AGAIN... that they cannot shove Kairi into the plot as it stands now. It will hurt her in the long run and that's that. Case closed. The team has made many mistakes with her and shoving her in now would just be on the long list of mistakes. What they must do is ease her in.

How can they make her like Aqua? Put her in a 'satellite' roll. Strengthen and show off the SRK trio when it's time for the real fight, no solo one-shotting the final bosses, no deux ex machina's from Kairi. I doubt she will ever have to face off against Sora and Riku like Aqua did, but they need to show that Kairi has a place with Sora and Riku by showing her friendship and determination, not overpowered skill for example.

I insist that for KH3, Kairi fill a similar role as Riku and Mickey because like KH2, they were also satellite characters but still important. They still followed along the plot and contributed, but did not overtake it. When you think about it, Aqua was the same.

Kairi is in a unique position where on the one hand, she is a very valuable resource to the enemy. But on the other, she can be replaced and therefore, isn't a priority for the enemy and probably won't be sought after. In all technicality, Kairi could play a pivotal role in defeating the enemy because it's personal. At the same time, it doesn't need to be a personal fight and Kairi doesn't need a big role in defeating an enemy she has had little contact with. If that makes any sense???

Basically, while some people may dislike it, Kairi should not have DDD Riku level involvement in the main plot of KH3. It should not be Xion level involvement where she is replacing a character that might make more sense to be there. She should have Aqua level of involvement, and that involvement being centered around her friends and their safety, not necessarily her own solo journey of seeking out the bad guy or taking on Xehanort/Vanitas/any Norter solo. If they wanted Kairi to have Riku level of importance overall, they should have built up to it like they have with everything else. That will have to be saved for post-Xehanort saga.

 

[Guernsey]

You do have a point I would like Kairi to be important but it is going to somewhat tricky to put her in there.

 

[LightUpTheSky452]

"Stealing the show" is one of the main reasons for the lash against Xion, so getting it right definitely involves , as you said, a delicate balance.

I don't think heavy exposure to "make up for lost time" is a good idea, ever, for any character.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't think it would be that difficult of a balance to do?

I know this is the KH writers we're talking about--and they're mediocre at best, so I shouldn't get my hopes up--but why not put her with character who also need development (that it would make sense she would interact with), and have them all develop some that way?

For instance, this is one of my favorite fan-made KHIII scenarios I've ever seen. It just speaks to me for some reason, and I can never stop thinking about it.

(By Axelxlea from deviantArt Axelxlea (Lew) - DeviantArt):

Why I think something like this would be good is because... From Naminé's side, she used to be jealous of Kairi. So much so that she replaced her in Sora's memories. So Naminé reaching a place where she'd lovingly sacrifice herself for Kairi (even after just being revived in KHIII, no less) would be good development on her part.

And likewise, this is good development for Kairi. Because should such a situation happen, it would probably mean that the two have met again, and been given the chance to bond and truly come to love each other. In this image, Kairi's clearly devastated about Naminé trying to sacrifice herself for her, and will probably try to do anything to save her/stop it--with her being more active for a change, by perhaps reflecting on how much she hates to be powerless and how often that happens to her.

And if something like this were to happen, we might actually pass the Bechdel Test for once.

I just think it could be a neat idea, but it's only an example.

...

Btw, what do people here think of the Kairinort idea? Basically, it's going around on Tumblr that Kairi could be a Xehanort... because when her body was just left there and without a heart in KHI, Xehanort easily could have put his heart into her to make her a vessel. And I know most people would say that that's impossible, because she's a Princess of Heart and has no darkness for Xehanort to rely on to be able to do that. But at that time, she didn't have her heart at the time that would have made such a thing impossible, but was rather vulnerable--so I think it's very possible Xehanort could've done this. It won't happen in a million years, but I kind of wish that it would.

...

Oh, and since I talked about this earlier in the thread, I'll post a similar picture I've found to the idea (another one by Axelxlea).

I really think this should happen/should've happened, even if it just ends with Kairi saying that she does love Sora and wants to be with him forever... but not romantically, and that maybe she doesn't even think she can feel that way for anyone (as KH-Info-Block said on their Tumblr), which would be one of the most mature things this series has ever done.

...

And on a less serious note... This has nothing to do with Kairi herself and her role, really, but I'm really hoping that we get a Neverland episode in KHIII, with her and the gang learning how to fly. Forget everything in this thread, but just give me that and I'll be happy Kidding.

But no, I really would like that scene. But tbh, I think Nomura forgot about it long ago...

Edit: I also apologize for all the pictures I've been posting lately. If it seems out of place to anyone, I'll stop. But when I find things close to what I recently talked about in this forum, I can't help but post them.. seeing as how a picture's worth a thousand words, and all that. And I'm also hoping Square Enix might browse this thread, and see in a passing glance that there are things they can do with Kairi. But yeah: if it's getting out of hand or bothering anyone, I'll stop.

 

[Guernsey]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't think it would be that difficult of a balance to do?

I know this is the KH writers we're talking about--and they're mediocre at best, so I shouldn't get my hopes up--but why not put her with character who also need development (that it would make sense she would interact with), and have them all develop some that way?

For instance, this is one of my favorite fan-made KHIII scenarios I've ever seen. It just speaks to me for some reason, and I can never stop thinking about it.

(By Axelxlea from deviantArt Axelxlea (Lew) - DeviantArt):

Why I think something like this would be good is because... From Naminé's side, she used to be jealous of Kairi. So much so that she replaced her in Sora's memories. So Naminé reaching a place where she'd lovingly sacrifice herself for Kairi (even after just being revived in KHIII, no less) would be good development on her part.

And likewise, this is good development for Kairi. Because should such a situation happen, it would probably mean that the two have met again, and been given the chance to bond and truly come to love each other. In this image, Kairi's clearly devastated about Naminé trying to sacrifice herself for her, and will probably try to do anything to save her/stop it--with her being more active for a change, by perhaps reflecting on how much she hates to be powerless and how often that happens to her.

And if something like this were to happen, we might actually pass the Bechdel Test for once.

I just think it could be a neat idea, but it's only an example.

That would need idea but I don't the KH writers implementing this especially when you consider their track record with Kairi.

...

Btw, what do people here think of the Kairinort idea? Basically, it's going around on Tumblr that Kairi could be a Xehanort... because when her body was just left there and without a heart in KHI, Xehanort easily could have put his heart into her to make her a vessel. And I know most people would say that that's impossible, because she's a Princess of Heart and has no darkness for Xehanort to rely on to be able to do that. But at that time, she didn't have her heart at the time that would have made such a thing impossible, but was rather vulnerable--so I think it's very possible Xehanort could've done this. It won't happen in a million years, but I kind of wish that it would.

...

Oh, and since I talked about this earlier in the thread, I'll post a similar picture I've found to the idea (another one by Axelxlea).

I really think this should happen/should've happened, even if it just ends with Kairi saying that she does love Sora and wants to be with him forever... but not romantically, and that maybe she doesn't even think she can feel that way for anyone (as KH-Info-Block said on their Tumblr), which would be one of the most mature things this series has ever done.

...

And on a less serious note... This has nothing to do with Kairi herself and her role, really, but I'm really hoping that we get a Neverland episode in KHIII, with her and the gang learning how to fly. Forget everything in this thread, but just give me that and I'll be happy Kidding.

But no, I really would like that scene. But tbh, I think Nomura forgot about it long ago...

Kairinort is not possible but the other idea seems somewhat plausible. I know Kingdom Hearts isn't that mature when it comes to romance but Kairi and Sora could be really good friends. Didn't Sora have a crush on Kairi in KH1? Sora seems to have somehow gotten over in KH2 when he had to rescue his friend Riku although he did remember Kairi in Halloween Town.

Edit: I also apologize for all the pictures I've been posting lately. If it seems out of place to anyone, I'll stop. But when I find things close to what I recently talked about in this forum, I can't help but post them.. seeing as how a picture's worth a thousand words, and all that. And I'm also hoping Square Enix might browse this thread, and see in a passing glance that there are things they can do with Kairi. But yeah: if it's getting out of hand or bothering anyone, I'll stop.

I don't the pictures myself. I know it is not possible but a man can dream.