Wait..Will Mickey recognize Roxas?

[Organization_42]

There seems to be this volley of excuses, but the excuses on both ends pose a plot hole.

If Mickey knew about the whole name connection for Xehanort but thought that he wasn't a threat, that still doesn't justify the fact that he forgot his name ten years later, because it would be just as easy to say that he would forget MX's name. And, you know, still assuming he isn't an idiot (and he's not), that wouldn't happen.

Ok. In KH2, Mickey clearly identifies the fact that he has known Xehanort's Heartless was a fake and was actually once the apprentice of Ansem the Wise, right? So he spent his time in KH trying to stop this impostor, yes? And yet allllllll of this time passes by (well over a year) and it takes him THAT long to realize that the apprentices name is Xehanort?

So let's get this straight so people can realize how idiotic that sounds. Mickey battles against MX in some way in BbS, and MX somehow disappears. Mickey later finds that a man with the same name exists as the apprentice of Ansem. He is highly concerned (obviously knowing this isn't a coincidence since names are distinctly unique in KH), but after further investigation he (somewhat foolishly) decides that Xehanort isn't a threat. Then years later he finds out that a bunch of shit that has been going on is caused by the heartless of the very man who has the same name as that villain he battled. And he can't remember? He can't even remember for over a year? If he can't remember the name "Xehanort" for the apprentice, he CANNOT remember the name "Xehanort" for the master, otherwise, if he DID remember the name for MX, he would know it was Xehanort. But he didn't. Meaning that the name "Xehanort" wasn't important to him, meaning that he forgot about MX in some way.

I think that right now, we can't call it a plot hole because we don't know the full extent of Mickey's role in the game. We know that he's training under Yen Sid, that he helps Ven at one point, and he shows up for the giant battle at the very end. For all we know, Mickey never heard Master Xehanort's name, or at least didn't come into contact with him very much. I'll admit that's a slim possibility, but I think it's still there. And nobody else seemed too worried about Ansem having an apprentice with the same name as MX.

 

[Audo]

According to logic too. One way or the other, it's a plot hole unless it is explained.

According to your logic. The one thing i don't like the most about with you is that it is either one way or another, for you there is no in-between. It's either "Mickey lost his memories between BBS and then" or "It's a plot hole". Why can't you accept the in-between that Mickey - yes - did recognize the similarity in their names, but chose to stay relatively quiet?

Then years later he finds out that a bunch of shit that has been going on is caused by the heartless of the very man who has the same name as that villain he battled. And he can't remember? He can't even remember for over a year? If he can't remember the name "Xehanort" for the apprentice, he CANNOT remember the name "Xehanort" for the master, otherwise, if he DID remember the name for MX, he would know it was Xehanort. But he didn't. Meaning that the name "Xehanort" wasn't important to him, meaning that he forgot about MX in some way.

Eh? We don't even know if he knew it was Xehanort's Heartless that was causing the damage either. Like i said, most people during that time believed it was Maleficent. Mickey knew what they were going after, and that was what he tried to stop. We don't know if he actually knew Xehanort's Heartless was behind it the entire time or not. We don't really know the extent of what Mickey knew at the time (hello Coded?)

 

[Brol]

If enix ever read this thread (which is extreamly unlikley XD) they will probably come up with an idea of Mickey getting his memory wiped by someone.:toungesmile:

lol well didn't he physically get into Castle Oblivion, thus erasing his memory along with Riku and others? .....and by the time he got his memory back, roxas was cessed to exist cause he was back in Sora.

just throwing that out there

 

[Zero Sora]

Ok. In KH2, Mickey clearly identifies the fact that he has known Xehanort's Heartless was a fake and was actually once the apprentice of Ansem the Wise, right? So he spent his time in KH trying to stop this impostor, yes? And yet alllll of this time passes by (well over a year) and it takes him THAT long to realize that the apprentices name is Xehanort?

That much is fact. Disregarding that we don't know that Mickey knew if it was Xehanort or not. But lets just say he did know it was Xehanort's Heartless.

That still doesn't justify the fact that he forgot his name ten years later, because it would be just as easy to say that he would forget MX's name. And, you know, still assuming he isn't an idiot (and he's not), that wouldn't happen.

But, Mickey did forget the name Xehanort. Are trying to tell me that Mickey is lying about forgetting the name?

 

[Audo]

lol well didn't he physically get into Castle Oblivion, thus erasing his memory along with Riku and others? .....and by the time he got his memory back, roxas was cessed to exist cause he was back in Sora.

just throwing that out there

No. Only Sora and co lost their memories, and it was because of Nami. Nami didn't affect Mickey or Riku's memories at all.

 

[Qarx]

No. Only Sora and co lost their memories, and it was because of Nami. Nami didn't affect Mickey or Riku's memories at all.

DiZ:
Are the holes in your memories starting to fill in?

Riku:
Yes. The haze is clearing

Riku's memories were altered since he's connected to Sora, but I doubt Mickey's was. So you're right about Mickey not being affected.

Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Audo]

Riku's memories were altered since he's connected to Sora, but I doubt Mickey's was. So you're right about Mickey not being affected.

Or am I misunderstanding?

You're misunderstanding.
He was suggesting Mickey's memories was altered when he stepped into CO, which wasn't the case. That thing with Riku happened much later, and we dont even know if Mickey was affected by that.

 

[Qarx]

You're misunderstanding.
He was suggesting Mickey's memories was altered when he stepped into CO, which wasn't the case. That thing with Riku happened much later, and we dont even know if Mickey was affected by that.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[gelandporn]

I think that right now, we can't call it a plot hole because we don't know the full extent of Mickey's role in the game. We know that he's training under Yen Sid, that he helps Ven at one point, and he shows up for the giant battle at the very end. For all we know, Mickey never heard Master Xehanort's name, or at least didn't come into contact with him very much. I'll admit that's a slim possibility, but I think it's still there. And nobody else seemed too worried about Ansem having an apprentice with the same name as MX.

That's really what I've been saying though- it isn't a plot hole as of yet but will be if the situation is not explained (and since it is not explained right now I'm treating it as a plot hole to prove my point).

According to your logic. The one thing i don't like the most about with you is that it is either one way or another, for you there is no in-between. It's either "Mickey lost his memories between BBS and then" or "It's a plot hole". Why can't you accept the in-between that Mickey - yes - did recognize the similarity in their names, but chose to stay relatively quiet?

Because it is an irrational decision out of the scope of Mickey's character or any reasonable character at that- ie a plot hole. And as I said if he did recognize the name, then he wouldn't have forgotten, creating a continuity issue. The one thing I don't like the most about with you is that you're trying too hard to look for reasons to fill in gaps.

Eh? We don't even know if he knew it was Xehanort's Heartless that was causing the damage either. Like i said, most people during that time believed it was Maleficent. Mickey knew what they were going after, and that was what he tried to stop. We don't know if he actually knew Xehanort's Heartless was behind it the entire time or not. We don't really know the extent of what Mickey knew at the time (hello Coded?)

Uh, hello, why do you think Mickey KNEW who Xehanort's Heartless was (name aside)? Not to mention he explained rather casually to Sora- as if he were "in the know," like the info was old news. And as I said, it was quite some time before he could actually even remember the name.

To question how Mickey ascertained as to who Xehanort's Heartless was is as relevant as asking how DiZ did it.

It's not hard to do a little guess work on the whole ordeal. Mickey visited AtW when 8 of the Ansem reports were completed- past the point where the heartless began to spread and caused a riff in space to create gummi. In fact based on the conversation, Mickey was already aware of the Heartless at that point:

"The door that appeared. The place the Heartless seek. I fear my research may have brought this upon us..."

And lo and behold, the discovery of the Ansem Reports soon after, which showed Xehanort as the cause behind the Heartless. If Mickey later went to find out why the stars were disappearing and all that shit, I don't think it would be hard to put two and two together when his mission became one in which to stop the Heartless and close Kingdom Hearts. He did, after all, clearly see Xehanort's Heartless in CoM, but he wasn't like, "Holy shit, who is this trying to invade your body, Riku?!"

Taking so long to remember a name which apparently is supposed to be very important to him.

 

[Audo]

past the point where the heartless began to spread and caused a riff in space to create gummi.

Eh? Gummi Ships were around before the Heartless started to appear.

 

[Qarx]

Eh? Gummi Ships were around before the Heartless started to appear.

I read somewhere that Gummi Ships were made of the borders of the worlds. I think it was in Another Report?
Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

Were the borders of worlds being destroyed during BBS, too?

 

[Zero Sora]

Were the borders of worlds being destroyed during BBS, too?

They'd have to be, otherwise no one would be able to travel around without going through the dark corridors. Which we know that only those who use darkness can do. And I doubt Mickey, Aqua and Ven do. Terra's a maybe, but less then likely.

 

[Qarx]

They'd have to be, otherwise no one would be able to travel around without going through the dark corridors. Which we know that only those who use darkness can do. And I doubt Mickey, Aqua and Ven do. Terra's a maybe, but less then likely.

Leon, Yuffie, and Aerith claimed it was the Heartless who did this. Did Riku have something to do with Destiny Islands losing its border? Wonder if the Unbirths or MX are at work here?

 

[gelandporn]

Eh? Gummi Ships were around before the Heartless started to appear.

That's besides the point ignoring the entirety of my post save one detail.

And anyway, where is your reasoning?
Heartless were around for some time before Xehanort opened the door to Radiant Garden's, causing the meteor shower and subsequently the discovery of gummi.

 

[Zero Sora]

Heartless were around for some time before Xehanort opened the door to Radiant Garden's, causing the meteor shower.

The experiments caused the test subjects hearts to collapse, including those of the most stalwart. How fragile our hearts are!
I confined those who had completely lost their hearts beneath the castle. Sometime later, I went below and was greeted by the most strangest sight.
Creatures that seemed born of Darkness.

In the deepest part of the castle, its antennae began vibrating, as if searching for something.
Suddenly, a strange door appeared. I'd never known of its existence.
I had a large keyhole, but didn't seem to be locked. So, I opened the door.
What I saw on the other side mystified me.
What was that powerful mass of energy?
That night I observed a great meteor shower in the sky.

So, being realistic. The Heartless were around a few weeks at the most before Xehanort opened the door?

subsequently the discovery of gummi

King Mickey came in a Gummi ship, like a few days after the meteor shower. So Gummi ships had to have been around for a while before that. So Gummi ships could have easily been around before the Heartless. Because the Heartless didn't break down the shell around Rediant Garden, opening the door to the heart of the world did.

 

[gelandporn]

So, being realistic. The Heartless were around a few weeks at the most before Xehanort opened the door?

King Mickey came in a Gummi ship, like a few days after the meteor shower. So Gummi ships had to have been around for a while before that. So Gummi ships could have easily been around before the Heartless. Because the Heartless didn't break down the shell around Rediant Garden, opening the door to the heart of the world did.

Where are you getting your perception of time periods? Because I don't see any. We don't know.

The only thing we do know is the chronology of events, and THAT suggests first Heartless, then Gummi.

 

[Audo]

Where are you getting your perception of time periods? Because I don't see any. We don't know.

The only thing we do know is the chronology of events, and THAT suggests first Heartless, then Gummi.

Gummi Ships came before Heartless.

Goofy: He's Donald's uncle---a business typhoon! Before the Heartless showed
up, he traveled the worlds on a Gummi Ship with the King.

 

[Qarx]

Gummi Ships came before Heartless.

Goofy: He's Donald's uncle---a business typhoon! Before the Heartless showed
up, he traveled the worlds on a Gummi Ship with the King.

Sora: Really?
Goofy: Yeah, he wanted to start up a traffic system
Donald: Transit system!
LOL I remember that a little too well.

 

[gelandporn]

Gummi Ships came before Heartless.

Goofy: He's Donald's uncle---a business typhoon! Before the Heartless showed
up, he traveled the worlds on a Gummi Ship with the King.

Alright, I'll give you that much, though it seems odd enough.

There is an invisible shell covering these worlds, so as to preserve the original world from interference from other worlds. By opening the hearts of each of these worlds this shell is broken and will become a group of shooting stars pouring down. Once settled, these shooting stars will become the Gummi Parts of the Gummi Ship. Because they were originally from the shell covering this world, it becomes possible to interfere into each world.

Usually the door to each world is closed and the keyhole itself is not visible. By bringing a keyblade nearby, the keyhole appears. But the lock is not actually closed itself. Indeed, the Heartless were able to find the door and easily open it and in this way steal hearts.

It suggests that Mickey would have had to (with the Star Seeker) find the Keyhole and open it. WHY he would do that, I have absolutely no clue, unless someone else did it... but meh.

Not to mention that the game itself seemed to suggest that Xehanort's opening of the door caused a general riff in space and the creation of gummi, as seen with the fact that Kairi arrived after the meteor shower that occurred at Destiny Islands. Yes I know that it was caused by Riku having opened the DI keyhole as a keyblade wielder, but the two events seemed to coincide as more than just a coincidence. Oh well.

Now, are you going to respond to the rest of my post as I said before or are we just done quibbling over this detail?

 

[Audo]

When Xehanort opened the door, it only broke down RG. It didn't break down all of the barriers because each world has it's own barrier. To Xehanort it seemed like he had caused inter-world travel or whatever, but he was mistaken.