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Thoughts on fiction?



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bambii

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It really doesn't diverge from the core philosophical underpinnings Kingdom Hearts as a series has been based on for some time. I see it as the inevitable consequence of over a decade of KH games telling us that any world or being you can imagine or connect with therefore has a heart, essence, or basis in reality ontologically equal to anything else "real." In other words, the imagination literally has the capability to create, or take us to, other realities or worlds different from our own. I mean, our protagonists have been bouncing between literal children's storybooks since 2002 lol. Then there were memories, then replicas, then data, then dreams, then re-writing time... it's really not so different, it's applying the same principle to a higher order of reality in the KH universe.

Basically, the Kingdom Hearts franchise more or less subscribes to this school of thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_realism
It always has, and now Nomura is taking it to its logical conclusion, which I think is awesome. He's lightly breaking the fourth wall. There are multiple comic book series which play with similar ideas: i.e., Alan Moore's Promethea, or The Unwritten. But it's also kind of the implicit premise of video games as a whole, which is why I think it works particularly well here: the player dives into another world, made of data, like a dream: a fictional universe that you experience as real to the degree that you allow your imagination to treat it as real. It's meta as fuck and I love it.
 
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Willow A113

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It's interesting to say the least. I'm mostly interested in how it will affect things in gameplay such as Disney worlds and enemy groups.
Yes, with the multiverse we can go to A Galaxy Far, Far, Away and Earth-199999.
Now that you say it, it would be cool if there’s a new enemy type, maybe one with the power to travel to different universes.
 

Willow A113

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It really doesn't diverge from the core philosophical underpinnings Kingdom Hearts as a series has been based on for some time. I see it as the inevitable consequence of over a decade of KH games telling us that any world or being you can imagine or connect with therefore has a heart, essence, or basis in reality ontologically equal to anything else "real." In other words, the imagination literally has the capability to create, or take us to, other realities or worlds different from our own. I mean, our protagonists have been bouncing between literal children's storybooks since 2002 lol. Then there were memories, then replicas, then data, then dreams... it's really not so different, it's applying the same principle to a higher order of reality in the KH universe.

Basically, the Kingdom Hearts franchise subscribes to this school of thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_realism
It always has, and now Nomura is taking it to its logical conclusion, which I think is awesome. There are multiple comic book series which play with similar ideas: i.e., Alan Moore's Promethea, or The Unwritten. But it's also kind of the implicit premise of video games as a whole, which is why I think it works particularly well here: the player dives into another world, made of data, like a dream: a fictional universe that you experience as real to the degree that you allow your imagination to treat it as real.
Yeah, it’s all definitely been leading to this. The philosophy is one thing that I’ve always loved about kh, and the farther the series progresses, the more you get and that’s why the later games I like better than the older ones. I think where we are not now is amazing and I can’t wait to see where it goes.
 

Cumguardian69

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We dont know how fiction works. Im lowkey curious too because Sora got crystallized while Yozora faded away.
 

DanChaos1

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I've been having these weird thoughts lately.... like is any of this for real or not?
 

AegisXIII

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I really think it does make sense in japanese and that there is no equivalent in western language. But I am willing to accept anything after the "nobodies don't exist" shenanigan.
 

KingdomKurdistan

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The concept is fine. All of Nomura's concepts are philosophically mature and contain vast avenues for exploration. He's a proper thinker and dreamer, and those kids of artists are very rare.

It's his execution that kills it. Like trying to paint fine art with blunt crayons. Kingdom Hearts needs Nomura to go "upstairs" into a more executive role a la Fiege or Kennedy. Let fresh blood handle the execution of his dreamy visions.

For an excellent example of "Nomuraism done right," check out Twin Peaks by David Lynch and Mark Frost. Nails contructive narrative incoherence and shares many thematic strands with Kingdom Hearts. Wouldn't surprised at all if Nomura is a fan: Kingdom Hearts owes a lot to Twin Peaks and the two series pair incredibly well
I really think it does make sense in japanese and that there is no equivalent in western language. But I am willing to accept anything after the "nobodies don't exist" shenanigan.

See I think that's one of KH's most successful narrative threads. Nomura nailed that one. Not sure if there were translation errors but the translation I've been playing all this time sounds perfectly fine and I never felt the logical absurdity of Nobody existentialism was in any way a sign of incompetent storytelling.
 
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Ballad of Caius

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I'm curious to see how the Unreality works. According to the MoM, the typical workings of Light and Darkness don't work the same over there, so I'm curious.
 

Willow A113

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The concept is fine. All of Nomura's concepts are philosophically mature and contain vast avenues for exploration. He's a proper thinker and dreamer, and those kids of artists are very rare.

It's his execution that kills it. Like trying trying paint fine art with blunt crayons. Kingdom Hearts needs Nomura to go "upstairs" into a more executive role a la Fiege or Kennedy. Let fresh blood handle the execution of his dreamy visions.

For an excellent example of "Nomuraism done right," check out Twin Peaks by David Lynch and Mark Frost. Nails contructive narrative incoherence and shares many thematic strands with Kingdom Hearts. Wouldn't surprised at all if Nomura is a fan: Kingdom Hearts owes a lot to Twin Peaks and the two series pair incredibly well


See I think that's one of KH's most successful narrative threads. Nomura nailed that one. Not sure if there were translation errors but the translation I've been playing all this time sounds perfectly fine and I never felt the logical absurdity of Nobody existentialism was in any way a sign of incompetent storytelling.
Well Nomura did say phase 2 would be an “awakening” for Kingdom Hearts, so maybe the writing will get better.
 

Noivern

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From the way it was explained thus far, it sounds stupid and extremely hard to grasp for me. And it's the first time I went through that with KH.

From how other people try to explain it (like in this thread), it sounds interesting with decent potential.
 

Willow A113

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From the way it was explained thus far, it sounds stupid and extremely hard to grasp for me. And it's the first time I went through that with KH.

From how other people try to explain it (like in this thread), it sounds interesting with decent potential.
Yeah, that kinda thing isn’t for everyone, but I really like that Nomura’s doing this.
 

Noivern

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By "awakening", maybe he also meant awakening all those sleeping Wielders inside their Charities.
This is giving me some Legend of Korra Book 4 vibes. Maybe we're eventually having to deal with a population of Keyblade Wielders. lol
 

KingdomKurdistan

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This is giving me some Legend of Korra Book 4 vibes. Maybe we're eventually having to deal with a population of Keyblade Wielders. lol

Title:
Kingdom Hearts: Population Eugenics 10543 Keyblade Wielders/[divided by] 99
 

AdrianXXII

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My current stance is we have too little information to really go off of. We know that there's another place called Unreality, which is fictional for the KH reality. It's a place that you can't be connived, a place that neither light or darkness rules, one that voices and sight can not reach. However oddly enough it's also a place that appears in a world as a game so, not sure how it all adds up.

I'm optimistic it does seem like a theme that could be interesting, but I'm not sure what sets it apart from all the other realms they've introduced so far.
 
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