The Whole Enchilada about Namine

[chaoschao]

My ideas also make sense when you look at the title "Another SIDE, Another story."

But be nice. DarrcEnigma was just trying to get his point across. You didn't have to say his proof was wrong. (even if it is )

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem that plausible to me, personally...

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the dual-wielding unknown that asks "Where is Sora?", and not the blindfolded unknown? That would go along with your theory, anyway, since it would be Sora's "other side" looking for him, rather than Riku's other side.

I'll bet DarrcEnigma is gonna love this one, .

Why is it that everybody's already assumed that BHK is looking for Sora?

Honestly, it would make more sense if BHK wasn't looking for Sora, and didn't even know that Sora existed.

There's more evidence to support that BHK is the other side of Sora, than there is evidence to support that BHK is looking for Sora. And, if BHK is just the other side of Sora, and Sora doesn't know that BHK exists, wouldn't it make sense that BHK doesn't know that Sora exists?

The only evidence anybody seems to have that supports the theory that BHK is looking for Sora, is somebody(not necessarily DWU) asked "Where's Sora?" in ASAS and DD. Look, ASAS and DD are very unreliable sources, ok? They were created a long while ago, and they were only rough sketches of the developers' original thoughts and vague concepts for KH2. They're not trailers, or sneek peeks or anything like that. They're just fun lil videos that could possibly even end up having nothing to do with KH2.

 

[DARK EVANGEL]

ummm..........i think namine wanted bhk to save her in com not sora.









---------------------------
To be a boy is to be a fool
to be a fool is pure bliss

-Hajime ueda

 

[l_neiman]

But be nice. DarrcEnigma was just trying to get his point across. You didn't have to say his proof was wrong. (even if it is )

Well, if he's going to go around trying to discredit other people's opinions and ideas just because he personally doesn't agree with them, and then tries to claim that his opinions are backed by "proof", I think someone needs to call him on it, since he's presenting fallacious arguments...

Why is it that everybody's already assumed that BHK is looking for Sora?

You make a good point about DD and ASAD being relatively old, at this point, and that they're not gospel. But it's pretty clear in ASAD that it is the dual-wielding unknown who asks "Where's Sora?", right after the blindfolded unknown pulls his blindfold off. ASAD shows the dual-wielding unknown, with his hood over his face, in a facial closeup, who then mouthes something, and then the screen goes black and it says "Where is Sora?", so I think it's fair to assume that it's the dual-wielding unknown that is asking that, right? I just watched ASAD again to verify, and that's exactly how it happens.

Sure, Square-Enix could've decided to change the story since they made ASAD and DD, but going on what we have now I don't think it's so far-fetched to assume that the dual-wielding unknown (who we now believe to be the BHK, based on game footage from KH2 that shows the BHK wielding the same two keyblades) is trying to find Sora. Whether he's asking the blindfolded unknown or someone else is a more debatable topic...

 

[grouchy unknown]

has the new trailer came out yet revealing anything about namine and BHK being in the game yet? Namine must have some kind of purpose in KH2.....

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

Well, if he's going to go around trying to discredit other people's opinions and ideas just because he personally doesn't agree with them, and then tries to claim that his opinions are backed by "proof", I think someone needs to call him on it, since he's presenting fallacious arguments...


You make a good point about DD and ASAD being relatively old, at this point, and that they're not gospel. But it's pretty clear in ASAD that it is the dual-wielding unknown who asks "Where's Sora?", right after the blindfolded unknown pulls his blindfold off. ASAD shows the dual-wielding unknown, with his hood over his face, in a facial closeup, who then mouthes something, and then the screen goes black and it says "Where is Sora?", so I think it's fair to assume that it's the dual-wielding unknown that is asking that, right? I just watched ASAD again to verify, and that's exactly how it happens.

Sure, Square-Enix could've decided to change the story since they made ASAD and DD, but going on what we have now I don't think it's so far-fetched to assume that the dual-wielding unknown (who we now believe to be the BHK, based on game footage from KH2 that shows the BHK wielding the same two keyblades) is trying to find Sora. Whether he's asking the blindfolded unknown or someone else is a more debatable topic...

I'm sorry, it's just that due to the lack of validity that Another Side, Another Story still holds, it would make much more sense if BHK had never heard of Sora, than if BHK were searching for Sora.

has the new trailer came out yet revealing anything about namine and BHK being in the game yet? Namine must have some kind of purpose in KH2.....

Nope, it hasn't yet. There have been rumors that namine is seen in that trailer, but since nobody's seen that trailer yet, we can't know for sure if the rumors are true or not.

 

[chaoschao]

You forget that BHK might hear about Sora and his Keyblade, and start looking for him then. Who knows, maybe Namine tells BHK about Sora, and he rushes off in search of him. Now we covered her purpose too! YAY!

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

You forget that BHK might hear about Sora and his Keyblade, and start looking for him then. Who knows, maybe Namine tells BHK about Sora, and he rushes off in search of him. Now we covered her purpose too! YAY!

No, you havent covered her purpose. You've developed your own theory about her purpose, but that's far from covering it.

Also, I didn't forget that BHK might hear about Sora eventually. Of course he's gonna hear about him eventually, he wouldn't be much of a character if he didn't have some connection to the main character. I'm just sayin that I dont think he's already looking for him.

 

[chaoschao]

Well, she could be there for that reason. >_> This is all specuation, after all.

But we really should get off of the BHK topic in the NAMINE thread...

 

[l_neiman]

I'm sorry, it's just that due to the lack of validity that Another Side, Another Story still holds, it would make much more sense if BHK had never heard of Sora, than if BHK were searching for Sora.

"Lack of validity" according to who? You? What makes you think that ASAD isn't valid anymore?

 

[cloud647]

well what if namine lives in twilight town? i mean she could be because during rikus adventure in khcom you meet namine in twilight town.

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

"Lack of validity" according to who? You? What makes you think that ASAD isn't valid anymore?

I never said it's not valid. It still is somewhat valid. Just not nearly as much as it used to be.

 

[TrancedRiku]

WOW! and the plot thickens!

so... she's not really apart of anyone's memories... but she can alter them. That's why she appears to be one of Sora and Riku's friends... crap! I gotta revise my KH2 fan fic... :_(

 

[DarrcEnigma]

A lot of the things you list as "proof" aren't really proof, but opinions.

I suppose that depends on how you look at it more than anything. "Proof" itself is a strong word, but it can also vary -- hence, "immeasurable proof." You can be lenient and have a lot of things show up, or more strict and have fewer, harder to dismiss things come up. It depends on who you are, and how deep you want to push into it. Also note I never said that what I listed was proof, I merely said that they're "problems" you'll run into while trying to make said theories credible. Instead of replying to your post bit-by-bit, I think it would be more useful for me to simply elaborate on what I've already said.

"Sora isn't dark"
- More "mature," perhaps, but not dark in nature as someone like Riku or Ansem. Sora doesn't have any of the traits of a typical "dark" being, nor does he wield the power of darkness. While that's not concrete evidence, it's hard to dismiss. It also has more going for it than saying Sora is dark -- you have nothing whatsoever to back that up.

"BHK lives in "Twilight" Town; twilight isn't light"
- This, of course, ties in with the fact that we really don't know which "realm" Twilight Town came from. What we do have is the word "twilight," and the fact that BHK wields (and therefore stands in between) Oblivion and Oathkeeper -- the Keychains of "light" and "darkness." Again, not absolute proof, but one would assume a "being of light" would not wield something based upon the powers of darkness. The name... eh... the name itself could just be a misleading hint.

"Riku and the BFU are one and the same (Watch ending scene from R/R)"
- Every being is made of three (as it stands) parts: The heart, the soul, and the body. We know that Riku cast his own heart off to escape Ansem, who's heart had possessed his body. We also know that Chain of Memories claims -- to one level or another -- that Riku is both his heart (only in reference to the darkness inside it [Ansem mostly] and his memories, though) and nothing but a shell. A Shell, for the record, is the body after it's heart is no longer within it. Hence, one person cannot have two shells. Tetsuya Nomura, in one of his interviews, says that "Riku" is "one of the characters" in Another Side, Another Story. Looking at ASAS, we have three choices: "DWU," "BFU," and "Older Kairi." For the sake of argument, let's say that Riku could be either DWU or BFU -- in the end, it doesn't matter. Both are wearing the "Enigma Coat" (which is not an official name, mind you), which seems to be closely related to shells -- everyone from the Enigmatic Man (who called himself a shell) to the Organization members are wearing them. In addition to this, Riku is seen wearing one upon exiting Castle Oblivion, implying that he is, in fact, a shell. If DWU/BFU is Riku's shell, then the Riku from Chain of Memories must be one of them -- blindfold, or no blindfold. Therefore, BFU/DWU and "Riku" cannot exist in two places at one time. ... Not counting his heart, which "appears" to still reside in Kingdom Hearts.

"Naminé isn't dark; nor is Kairi"
- Added for the sake of adding it, I guess. Mostly for the same reasons as Sora, with a few exceptions. For Kairi, she was able to bring Sora back from his Heartless form. Were she to be a "dark" being, she likely would not have had the ability to do so. For Naminé, I can only look to her actions, and of course the fact that she "cared" enough to try and reverse what she had done. While that points more towards her being "good" natured as opposed to light/dark (which aren't the same), it may (or may not) be of some importance. Naminé doesn't wield any visible powers... Got me there.

"Sora/Kairi and BHK/Naminé don't look identical, and therefore aren't the same person"
- The parts of a being do, in fact, look identical. While I have limited examples, they do exist. Kairi's heart was shown during the attack on Destiny Islands, in the Secret Place where the "door" had been connected to the realm of darkness. When the darkness burst through the door behind her, it forced "her" towards Sora, and upon contact her heart went inside of him -- later to be put back into it's rightful place. Her shell, which was shown during a few scenes, retained it's original form. Riku's shell remained the same after he cast his heart off (until Ansem somehow manipulated it), and his heart looked identical to it during the scene at Hollow Bastion and during the scenes at the Endless Abyss. (Scene from Final Mix, and the ending scene.) The only way the appearance would change is if the part became a Heartless, Nobody, or whatever. Note that this makes it impossible for parts to look different, but does not stop characters like Sora and BHK from being "Other realm equivalents" of one another, as equivalents don't necessarily have to look alike... or even similar, I suppose.

"There's no proof of which "Realm" Twilight Town/Destiny Islands appears in"
- Do I really need to say anything? We've yet to see where Twilight Town and Destiny Islands appear, so simply put we don't know where the characters that live there "came from." You can't say "Sora is BHK's dark equivalent" if Sora didn't come from the dark realm, eh? Of course, that also assumes two things: 1) That a "dark equivalent" really has to come from the dark realm, and 2) that each realm has it's own set of worlds... but... that's not really the issue here.

"Hollow Bastion appears in the "Present Realm" "
- Which means that Kairi originated in the present realm. She technically can't be classified as anyone's "light equivalent" if she originated there. Again, though, that's assuming the same two things as the last one.

"We don't know where Naminé originally lived"
- Same as the last two, nothing needs to be added.


I rarely (if at all) claim to be the "bottom line," and I have no problem with people questioning my reasoning behind saying something. I merely enjoy talking about Kingdom Hearts, and try my "best" to find and explain any and/or all potential errors in someone's theory. So, really, go ahead and be as "mean" as you'd like. As long as you've got valid points, I'll listen.

 

[chaoschao]

I really should have clarified this earlier. I don't think that Sora/BHK or Naminé are "Dark" per se. I just think that they are the 'shadows' that Naminé talked about. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to have dark powers. But, on the other hand, darkness never has to be evil, or even black. Castle Obvlivion was all white (which may explain Naminé's white clothing), but there were dark powers there. Kingdom Hearts was light, but the Heartless were there.

So, I may be (probably am) wrong, I still have SOME proof, right?

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

I just think that they are the 'shadows' that Naminé talked about.

Look, I dont know how many times I've said this in this forum. Probably somewhere close to 20 or 30. I'm gettin really tired of saying this, and I dont even know why I should have to say it. Everybody should already know it, it's really obvious, but I'll say it yet again anyway:

When Namine said she was Kairi's shadow, SHE DIDN'T MEAN LITERALLY! It was a figure of speech, for god's sake! She meant that in Sora's mind, she's just a shadow of the one he truly cares about: Kairi. She didn't mean that she's some kinda other form of Kairi or something like that. It was just a figure of speech.

 

[DarrcEnigma]

Despite the way it was said, I'd have to agree with starry_eyed_hero. While I'm not denying that there could be "other yous" or "equivalents" for Sora, Kairi, Riku, etc., I do think most people look at it the wrong way. They are, naturally, entitled to their own opinions, but some of these "theories" are quite silly, really. People base "dark" and "light" off of clothing and similar things, and not a person's actions or powers, which is likely what they should be doing.

I still don't believe such connections link Sora and BHK, or Kairi and Naminé, though. I believe it's simply wishful thinking to make the game make more sense due to lack of detail as-is.

 

[chaoschao]

starry_eyed_hero: Please don't always assume that you are 100% correct...

Anyway, you have what she said right, but who knows what she ment. She could have ment anything. Unless you made up the script for the game, which I doubt, you can't know for sure. Anyway, it's just a theory. You don't have to get so angry.

 

[starry_eyed_hero]

starry_eyed_hero: Please don't always assume that you are 100% correct...

Anyway, you have what she said right, but who knows what she ment. She could have ment anything. Unless you made up the script for the game, which I doubt, you can't know for sure. Anyway, it's just a theory. You don't have to get so angry.

I dont always assume that I'm a 100% correct, but this time, I am. This time I was stating an exact fact, I wasn't goin by my opinion. Also, I didn't get "angry", it's just that what I said is a well-known, true fact, and it should be really obvious but instead people got some wierd delusion that she was talking about actual shadows and darkness and magic or something when she said that she's like Kairi's shadow.

I just got a lil annoyed, because what I said is a fact, it's really obvious, and no matter how many times I say it, people never seem to understand it.

Everybody just needs to take their heads out of this game for a minute, and back into reality for just a short while, just long enough to realize that not every sentence said in this game has some dark magical meaning.(except for you, darrcenigma, you sound like you've already had your share of reality, you're gettin some good rep)

 

[chaoschao]

I'd like to say that I want to stay on topic and not argue with you, but...

I'm quite aware that not everything said in the game has a dark, deep meaning. But, somethings do. I mean, we are talking about Square Enix here. Also keep in mind that Kairi and Namine have the same base sprite, the same stance, and their good luck charms are VERY similar. I never said I was right (heck, I said I was probably wrong) but that doesn't mean that "what I said is a fact, it's really obvious." Not everything is black and white. Somethings just have a deeper meaning.

Boy, I'm glad I got that out. I'm sorry I had to be rant-y toward you, starry, but I don't like it when a topic on THEORIES has someone saying that they are giving 100% fact, because the truth is you don't know that.

Oh, and I never said the shadow was magical. I said that there could be alternate versions of people...Like Mario and Wario!