The existence of heartless

[Ultima Fenrir]

I don't think this is necessarily the same as all the other threads, let me know what you think.

The debate of whether heartless existed prior to BBS has been going on now for a quite a while.
If the heartless are the embodiment of darkness in one's heart then why wouldn't they have existed during or before BBS? I would think that even before BBS that there had to be darkness in people's hearts. How is it even possible to say that they couldn't have existed if darkness and light are said to make up a heart?

 

[Genocide]

1. There is a different thread for this: http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/96777-heartless-have-always-existed.html
2. Darkness are eternal, heartless aren't. There is always going to be darkness.
3. The heartless are a result of AtW and his apprentices testing darkness on the heart.
4. The enemy in BBS is the ancestor of heartless and nobody.
5. It was referred to as "Starting Point" Nomura's words exactly.
6. What does light have to do with the creation of a heartless?

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

OK. so let me get this straght. Even though darkness has existed for god knows how long that the heartless were more or less synthetically made by ATW?

Here is purely an opininon question for you. Do you think that the predecessorrs of the heartless might have been a result of MX doing some sort of scientific work? I get the idea that MX had something to do with the enemies of BBS and somehow remembered something when a fragment of him becomes Xehanort in order to create heartless alongside ATW.

 

[Genocide]

OK. so let me get this straght. Even though darkness has existed for god knows how long that the heartless were more or less synthetically made by ATW?

Here is purely an opininon question for you. Do you think that the predecessorrs of the heartless might have been a result of MX doing some sort of scientific work? I get the idea that MX had something to do with the enemies of BBS and somehow remembered something when a fragment of him becomes Xehanort in order to create heartless alongside ATW.

Yes I do. I do think that MX possibly created the predescessors to heartless in BBS. [more likely before the game starts]

And Xehanort succeeded his work, creating heartless.

 

[Hanzo]

Sorry PostMentalFerocity your wrong about one thing Darkness, in the game, is not eternal. It was said by Kairi's Grandma. When there was only light peple was happy. People then grew to want it thus made the darkness. People wanted it so bad they wanted the light for themselves. That was said by Kairi's Grandma. So if you look at it she is way old like 70 or something. So she could have been where the worlds are connected and there was only light. So when you say Darkness is eternal that's false. Even in real life there was only light but then darkness. Darkness is now eternal only as long everone holds it in their hearts. Like Kairi, if people was like her there would be no darkness. But since people get greedy after a while then darkness is born. Sorry this is so long had to explain it.

Now the Heartless they was made by Xehanort when he was a student of Ansem. BBS takes place before that. So heartless was made during an unknown time but close to KH1 time. Another thing MX might have something to do with it since Xehanort might have a relation to MX to cause Xehanort to have a dark heart. If Xehanort didn't have a dark heart at the time to want Ansem to expierment on him there might not be a heartless.

 

[Stars]

I don't think this is necessarily the same as all the other threads, let me know what you think.

The debate of whether heartless existed prior to BBS has been going on now for a quite a while.
If the heartless are the embodiment of darkness in one's heart then why wouldn't they have existed during or before BBS? I would think that even before BBS that there had to be darkness in people's hearts. How is it even possible to say that they couldn't have existed if darkness and light are said to make up a heart?

Yeah.. heartless is create from ppl's darkness.. so i think that's make ATW interested in discovering darkness in heart..
Whether or not heartless existed.. i dunno..

 

[Genocide]

Sorry PostMentalFerocity your wrong about one thing Darkness, in the game, is not eternal. It was said by Kairi's Grandma. When there was only light peple was happy. People then grew to want it thus made the darkness. People wanted it so bad they wanted the light for themselves. That was said by Kairi's Grandma. So if you look at it she is way old like 70 or something. So she could have been where the worlds are connected and there was only light. So when you say Darkness is eternal that's false. Even in real life there was only light but then darkness. Darkness is now eternal only as long everone holds it in their hearts. Like Kairi, if people was like her there would be no darkness. But since people get greedy after a while then darkness is born. Sorry this is so long had to explain it.

Nomura said that Kairi's grandmother's story was just fairytale. So, that disspells that theory I'm guessing.

 

[The Twilight Prince]

Nomura said that Kairi's grandmother's story was just fairytale. So, that disspells that theory I'm guessing.

Pretty much but even if it DID have some truth to it, he'd be wrong in that that was way in the past. Now, darkness is eternal. There is darkness, and it won't be leaving anytime soon.

 

[xickae]

Well, Nomura once said the enemies wouldn't be neither a heartless or Nobody because they didn't exist during the events in BBS.

About Kairi's grandma story, yes it was a fairy tale. And since it was a fairy tale, we have no idea when it happened (it's a fairy tale telling about truth events or simply to explain why people are sometimes so mean and the presence of darkness). And, Hanzo, are you meaning Kairi's grandma has seen darkness being born (assuming it wasn't a fairy tale)??????

 

[√]

orry PostMentalFerocity your wrong about one thing Darkness, in the game, is not eternal. It was said by Kairi's Grandma. When there was only light peple was happy. People then grew to want it thus made the darkness. People wanted it so bad they wanted the light for themselves. That was said by Kairi's Grandma. So if you look at it she is way old like 70 or something. So she could have been where the worlds are connected and there was only light. So when you say Darkness is eternal that's false. Even in real life there was only light but then darkness. Darkness is now eternal only as long everone holds it in their hearts. Like Kairi, if people was like her there would be no darkness. But since people get greedy after a while then darkness is born. Sorry this is so long had to explain it.

Let me get this straight.
Mickey said that you can't have light without the darkness.
Kairi's grandmas story says that darkness was born in people's hearts.
I mean, only in the hearts of the people.
Meaning, there's darkness all along.
it did not existed in the hearts of the people.

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

Let me get this straight.
Mickey said that you can't have light without the darkness.
Kairi's grandmas story says that darkness was born in people's hearts.
I mean, only in the hearts of the people.
Meaning, there's darkness all along.
it did not existed in the hearts of the people.

What Mickey said about having light and darkness contradicts Kairi's gradnomthers story of pure light and the greed of people wanting the light to themselves created darkness. One says that without darkness there is no light, and the other says at one point there was no darkness. The catch here is that Kairi's grandmothers story isn't necessarily true...but then again Mickey could also be omitting information or just generally wrong.

 

[Wehrmacht]

The catch here is that Kairi's grandmothers story isn't necessarily true...but then again Mickey could also be omitting information or just generally wrong.

Even so, I'd trust Mickey over Kairi's grandmother, simply because his words aren't left up to interpretation, and because Nomura's already expressed that the fairy tale isn't what happened anyway.

 

[Ultima Fenrir]

I agree with you Hades. Mickey has been dealing directly with the events of KH for years, as well as Mickey knowing of ATW's research. Where Kairi's grandmothers fairytale comes from some time we are unsure of and completely open to interpretation.

 

[Rikuruler]

heartless were not created they were let out By xenahort and the apprentices.. Read yur secret Ansem reports people kh2 tells you that

 

[O a t h keeper]

Just because darkness has always existed does not mean that creatures born from darkness have always existed.

heartless were not created they were let out By xenahort and the apprentices.. Read yur secret Ansem reports people kh2 tells you that

You, my friend, are the one who needs to reread the Ansem Reports. Xehanort's cruel experiments on the darkness of the heart resulted in the first Pureblood Heartless. He continued his experiments and eventually manufactured Emblem Heartless using a machine.

 

[solstice]

Nomura said that this new enemy was the ancestor to the heartless and the nobodies, but who is to say that the new enemy isn't made of light and darkness?

A person is made up of a body, heart, and soul right? A heartless is created when a heart is lost to darkness, and a nobody is made from the body and soul left behind. Since a nobody doesn't have a heart, it is made out of nothing instead of light and dark. But what if a person lost their body but retaind their heart and soul? This enemy could have been what sparked Ansem the Wise's interest in the heart. It also could be possible that one of these enemies' hearts was removed from the soul and cast into darkness, creating the first heartless, and the remaining soul being the predecessor to the nobodies.