Terra-Xehanort's Apparent Absence in the Final Scene



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Veritas7340

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When Xehanort reveals the purpose of Organizaton XIII and the members arrive from different points in the timelines, Terra-Xehanort wasn't revealed amongst the members.

Most likely, he was probably one of the hooded member but why do this? Wouldn't it have added good tension to have Mickey see Terra-Xehanort, to see Terra still trapped?

Xehanort himself said that one of the lights (Terra) belonged to him.

Moreover, since Terra-Xehanort is the one who is brought back to life since his heartless (Ansem SoD) and his nobody (Xemnas) were destroyed, why would he not want to undertake a leading role at the meeting (assuming that he actually were there)

Thoughts as to why he wasn't one of the members with revealed identities there?
 

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The one who was brought back to life by the destruction of Ansem and Xemnas was Master Xehanort, as predicted by Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded, not Terra-Xehanort.
This was further confirmed in the Ultimania of Dream Drop Distance:
DDD Ultimania said:
Q: What happened to Terra's heart and body?
A: In this game, Master Xehanort does not appear in the form of Terra-Xehanort when he transferred his heart, but as the old man he was before he took control of Terra's body. During the revival, what happened to Terra's body, and Terra's heart that was in opposition to Xehanort's control? In Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep, it is to be considered that it was thought the whereabouts of the heart of Terra's master, Eraqus rested within his body.
We know that Terra is still somehow under Xehanort's control, but he's not Xehanort's main host anymore, so the entity/combination known as "Terra-Xehanort" we saw in BBS may not even exist anymore except maybe through time-travel shenanigans.
 

Veritas7340

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The one who was brought back to life by the destruction of Ansem and Xemnas was Master Xehanort, as predicted by Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded, not Terra-Xehanort.
This was further confirmed in the Ultimania of Dream Drop Distance:


We know that Terra is still somehow under Xehanort's control, but he's not Xehanort's main host anymore, so the entity/combination known as "Terra-Xehanort" we saw in BBS may not even exist anymore except maybe through time-travel shenanigans.
Oh, never played Re:Coded so never knew that before. Thanks
 

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Xehanort himself said that one of the lights (Terra) belonged to him.
If we are to play it safe, MX didn't name who it was other than Sora who belonged to him. It could be Terra, it could be someone else... although it's not an invalid assumption to think that it is Terra considering this particular member is a common factor in both Xehanort's and Mickey's lists.

Moreover, since Terra-Xehanort is the one who is brought back to life since his heartless (Ansem SoD) and his nobody (Xemnas) were destroyed, why would he not want to undertake a leading role at the meeting (assuming that he actually were there)
Not is or was, but should have been. It's indeed tempting to say that Terranort was the one who was brought back, because after all, both Ansem SoD and Xemnas were splintered from him. Simple deduction through logic thus dictates that Terranort should have been reformed, but as Seph pointed out, something that we aren't aware of as of yet took place upon this reformation.

What had happened that made MX cast Terra's body aside, whether it be by choice or by force—quoting a fellow member—quite possibly we can only find out in KH3 since Nomura himself hasn't dropped any hint; instead, he only teased about this matter.
 
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Also, it wouldn't have made any difference for Mickey to see Terra-Xehanort. Mickey knows Terra only by name. There'd be no emotional impact of seeing him.
 

Nayru's Love

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The one who was brought back to life by the destruction of Ansem and Xemnas was Master Xehanort, as predicted by Yen Sid in the secret ending of Re: Coded, not Terra-Xehanort.
This was further confirmed in the Ultimania of Dream Drop Distance:
I just interpret that quote as "as opposed to MX appearing in what could be considered his 'more current' form, he instead appears in one of his previous forms, for whatever reasons."

Why Terra-Xehanort wouldn't have appeared in either Yen Sid's and Mickey's conversation (and instead being replaced with an "illusion" of MX) or as one of the unhooded members during the little business conference could've been because it'd be better off if he was revealed in his starring role game, KH3.
 

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I just interpret that quote as "as opposed to MX appearing in what could be considered his 'more current' form, he instead appears in one of his previous forms, for whatever reasons."

Why Terra-Xehanort wouldn't have appeared in either Yen Sid's and Mickey's conversation (and instead being replaced with an "illusion" of MX) or as one of the unhooded members during the little business conference could've been because it'd be better off if he was revealed in his starring role game, KH3.
That doesn't make any sense though, especially when Sephiroth has the ultimania quote with nomura stating that the MX we saw in DDD was a reformed MX from Ansem and Xemnas' defeat.

To me taking the quote in that manner is looking to deep into the matter.
 

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I understand where Nayru is coming from, though. However, be aware that this is a very semantic interpretation.

The Ultimania only spoke about how in that one scene in DDD MX appeared as the old man. There was no confirmation on whom MX was revived as: MX himself or Terranort. The closest to this would be that little braintease on what had happened to Terra's body and heart. This could go both ways: either he was revived as MX right off the bat, or as Terranort and one thing led to another, eventually ending in MX returning to his oldest self.

My personal belief is the latter: that he was revived as Terranort, but something caused him to cast Terra's body aside and somehow reassumed his Geezer Forme.
 

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I understand where Nayru is coming from, though. However, be aware that this is a very semantic interpretation.

The Ultimania only spoke about how in that one scene in DDD MX appeared as the old man. There was no confirmation on whom MX was revived as: MX himself or Terranort. The closest to this would be that little braintease on what had happened to Terra's body and heart. This could go both ways: either he was revived as MX right off the bat, or as Terranort and one thing led to another, eventually ending in MX returning to his oldest self.

My personal belief is the latter: that he was revived as Terranort, but something caused him to cast Terra's body aside and somehow reassumed his Geezer Forme.
It's not that I dont understand his point it's just I dont see much reason in it for Xehanort.

The whole point of stealing Terra's body was to be young again and I dont see him discarding it unless he was forced out through some means and since the ultimania brings up the revival I take it to mean that it was the defeat of Ansem and Xemnas and thus the process of terra's body+soul forcing itself back with Terra's heart.

The ultimania specifically brings up the question of what happened to Terra's body during the revival not anything after.

And I dont think MX would abandon Terra's body just to fill a vessel seat when he could use YX to get his old self from BBS to fill that role while retaining Terra's younger body.
 

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It's not that I dont understand his point it's just I dont see much reason in it for Xehanort.

The whole point of stealing Terra's body was to be young again and I dont see him discarding it unless he was forced out through some means and since the ultimania brings up the revival I take it to mean that it was the defeat of Ansem and Xemnas and thus the process of terra's body+soul forcing itself back with Terra's heart.

The ultimania specifically brings up the question of what happened to Terra's body during the revival not anything after.

And I dont think MX would abandon Terra's body just to fill a vessel seat when he could use YX to get his old self from BBS to fill that role while retaining Terra's younger body.
True, there might not be much reason in casting Terra's body aside. But what if there were... side effects, so to say, of his possession that had forced him to do so? What if by possessing Terra, things had somehow gone not as smoothly as he had wanted them to be? It's a hypothetical scenario, of course, but I believe it's not entirely far-fetched.

And the answer to that question of what happened during the revival? With our current lack of knowledge surrounding the event, "nothing" is as valid an answer as "something".

One thing that I think I should say here, though, is that I'm not dismissing the possibility of him being reborn as MX. There indeed is a chance that it's true; after all, Terranort had not just one, not just two, but three hearts in him when splintered into two beings and because of this, his reformation could have taken place in a very different manner from what we think is the norm.
 

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True, there might not be much reason in casting Terra's body aside. But what if there were... side effects, so to say, of his possession that had forced him to do so? What if by possessing Terra, things had somehow gone not as smoothly as he had wanted them to be? It's a hypothetical scenario, of course, but I believe it's not entirely far-fetched.
This is a possibility however the only side effect that comes to mind would be Terra, in a twist, over taking Xehanort with time but given that even with Xemnas (terra's body) Xehanort was strongly dominant I doubt that would be it.

That is to say unless Eraqus suddenly took initiative, despite his strength I doubt MX would win a two on one struggle.
And the answer to that question of what happened during the revival? With our current lack of knowledge surrounding the event, "nothing" is as valid an answer as "something".
I disagree, dismissing something that was purposely teased is like ignoring a clue.

One thing that I think I should say here, though, is that I'm not dismissing the possibility of him being reborn as MX. There indeed is a chance that it's true; after all, Terranort held three hearts in him when splintered into two beings and because of this, his reformation could have taken place in a very different manner than what we are aware of. I'm just exploring the scenarios that make it possible for him to have been reborn as Terranort.
And I dont fully dismiss the other it's just I dont see much reason in it for Xehanort to take this course of action given the trouble he's went through to gain hosts in the past.

I think it's say to say there's no doubt that Terranort's three-heart combo didn't alter the reformation in some way.
 

Nayru's Love

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The Ultimania only spoke about how in that one scene in DDD MX appeared as the old man. There was no confirmation on whom MX was revived as: MX himself or Terranort. The closest to this would be that little braintease on what had happened to Terra's body and heart. This could go both ways: either he was revived as MX right off the bat, or as Terranort and one thing led to another, eventually ending in MX returning to his oldest self.
That's pretty much my thoughts. The main point of that Ultimania tidbit was to ask the question: Where is Terra's heart and body? Considering how MX virtually confirmed Terra to be a SoD, I interpreted that question as: Where is Terra-Xehanort?

And considering how Terra-Xehanort is the holder of MX's actual heart (unless something happened somewhere along the line, which, to be fair, is a plausible scenario), the MX we saw could've just been a time-traveler.
 

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I think aging is relevant when it comes to figuring out the definition of "most future self," although that's more or less my own perspective.
From your perspective maybe but aging has nothing to do with my posts so bringing it up is like ignoring my point just to bring up yours.

But since we keep coming back to it; I dont hold aging important because it's really not when you think into it. Because whether it was the MX as was in DDD was from Ansem/Xemnas' revival or from bbs, he's not gonna have aged any.
If he's MX of bbs he's obviously not gonna have aged as he's from the past and if he's from Ansem/Xemnas' revival he wouldn't have aged either since, until that point, MX's body would have been in suspension from his heart since bbs when he discarded it.

With this in mind, and the time travel of DDD, YX's "most future self" can only mean either A) That he's referring to a Xehanort that has came back to DDD from some point in his future or B) That his most future self is Xehanorts most present self and main host.

Why the ultimania quote is so important is because it brings up the question of Terra's whereabouts not Xehanorts.
Before MX appeared YX said that soon his "most future self" will arrive and when he did we saw MX, not terranort or some sort of neo-terranort, but MX himself.
And then Nomura teases about Terra's whereabouts while pointing out that it was MX in his geezernort form that we seen after Ansem/Xemnas' revival.
And as I said above that can only mean MX from DDD was either from some point in the future were he's discarded or been forced out of Terra for some reason or that the MX we saw was from the present just freshly reformed from Ansem and Xemnas' defeat.

There's no doubt that Terra is still under his control in some way but, as we've seen with the other vessels, Terra could now be the victim of a piece of Xehanorts heart rather than his main one.

When Ansem was defeated in kh1 and expunged from Riku by kh's light a part of him still remained in Riku through CoM and kh2 showing that even if his main heart is forced out, he still leaves insurance that he can control that person in the future.

Well our argument isn't over how or when they become the "final product," but what that final product truly is. I think that final product is MX iOS 7.
That's were your wrong, our debate is very much over how much time the "final product" takes because your stating that somehow, overnight practically, that one of MX's vessels changed into MX completely when vessels that have been norting over a decade like Braig have only managed to get as far as being "half Xehanort".

It was never said he needs his vessels to become him completely just that he needs 13 versions of himself for vessels. So whether they are only partly or born directly of him, just partially norted is all he needs for his plan.

That's pretty much my thoughts. The main point of that Ultimania tidbit was to ask the question: Where is Terra's heart and body? Considering how MX virtually confirmed Terra to be a SoD, I interpreted that question as: Where is Terra-Xehanort?
I disagree, there is certainly no doubt Terra is under his control as a vessel, but that doesn't mean he's still the main host. As I pointed out above it specifically asks where Terra is not where Xehanort is as we already seen where Xehanort is.

The question wasn't just about Terra but why we saw MX in DDD and Nomura addresses it by pointing out it was MX we seen rather than Terranort, which you'd have expected to see, for mysterious reasons.

And considering how Terra-Xehanort is the holder of MX's actual heart (unless something happened somewhere along the line, which, to be fair, is a plausible scenario), the MX we saw could've just been a time-traveler
It's possible he's a time traveler but to be "the most future self" he'd have to have come from a point in the future since YX's most future self would've been the one furthest along in his lifetime which should've been Terranort (or even the Apprentice) but rather the version of him furthest along the timeline that appeared was MX.

I dont accept the MX we seen was from bbs as he wouldn't be the "most future self" since bbs is in Xehanorts past. If we look at it from meaning what you described in the other thread the other day it'd make no sense as any version older than YX would count as a most future self.
 

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Why Terra-Xehanort wouldn't have appeared in either Yen Sid's and Mickey's conversation (and instead being replaced with an "illusion" of MX) or as one of the unhooded members during the little business conference could've been because it'd be better off if he was revealed in his starring role game, KH3.
I agree. I think that it'd be far better in the story to reveal Terra as the final SoD sometime in KH3. Mickey and Yensid know Terra, but they don't know him nearly as well as Aqua and Ventus. I think it would prove far more dramatic if, after rescuing Aqua and then Ventus, while searching for Terra it was revealed he was the final SoD considering the bonds between TAV are far greater than Terra with anyone else in the cast thus far.

True, there might not be much reason in casting Terra's body aside. But what if there were... side effects, so to say, of his possession that had forced him to do so? What if by possessing Terra, things had somehow gone not as smoothly as he had wanted them to be? It's a hypothetical scenario, of course, but I believe it's not entirely far-fetched.
Well, clearly MX did take control of the body for some time during his time as AX, beating out both Terra and Eraqus, but it's entirely possible that perhaps he was always planning to go back into his original body in the future. I know he quotes his body as "aging" in BbS, hence his need for Terra's, but given the constant battle they probably had internally, perhaps MX's plan changed to stay in Terra's as long as possible and then revert back to his original geezer form far into the future so that there wouldn't be so much resistance. His body was constantly aging so perhaps by sending his heart into Terra's, he halted the aging process of his old body, preserving it for far into the future when he needed complete control of his body back again. This would allow his old body to be the past and the "most future" versions of himself.
 

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From your perspective maybe but aging has nothing to do with my posts so bringing it up is like ignoring my point just to bring up yours.

But since we keep coming back to it; I dont hold aging important because it's really not when you think into it. Because whether it was the MX as was in DDD was from Ansem/Xemnas' revival or from bbs, he's not gonna have aged any.
If he's MX of bbs he's obviously not gonna have aged as he's from the past and if he's from Ansem/Xemnas' revival he wouldn't have aged either since, until that point, MX's body would have been in suspension from his heart since bbs when he discarded it.

With this in mind, and the time travel of DDD, YX's "most future self" can only mean either A) That he's referring to a Xehanort that has came back to DDD from some point in his future or B) That his most future self is Xehanorts most present self and main host.
I understand that option B is both possible and plausible (option A, ehhhh). My argument is that there can be an option C, that being MX is both YX's most future self and also a time-traveler from BBS' time. But I'd also like to bring up the idea that MX is YX's only other true self; every other Xehanort is pretty much a knockoff (even Terra-Xehanort, since him being the same person as MX is almost like saying there's no difference between Apprentice Xehanort and Riku-Ansem).

Why the ultimania quote is so important is because it brings up the question of Terra's whereabouts not Xehanorts.
Before MX appeared YX said that soon his "most future self" will arrive and when he did we saw MX, not terranort or some sort of neo-terranort, but MX himself.
I disagree, there is certainly no doubt Terra is under his control as a vessel, but that doesn't mean he's still the main host. As I pointed out above it specifically asks where Terra is not where Xehanort is as we already seen where Xehanort is.

And then Nomura teases about Terra's whereabouts while pointing out that it was MX in his geezernort form that we seen after Ansem/Xemnas' revival.
And as I said above that can only mean MX from DDD was either from some point in the future were he's discarded or been forced out of Terra for some reason or that the MX we saw was from the present just freshly reformed from Ansem and Xemnas' defeat.
But Xehanort is very relevant to Terra's whereabouts.

When MX laid down that clue about Terra being a SoD, he pretty much answered half the question of "Where are Terra's heart and body?" (More specifically, where is his present self), that answer being "He's somewhere in this little sewing circle." (This is also assuming that Terra's heart is with his body, but I really don't see where else it could have gone). He has to have a fragment of Xehanort within him to be a SoD. Yeah, it could just be a fragment, and not the whole thing; for all we know, he could be controlled by Xemnas' fragment, and therefore become Terra-Xemnas. Or, the more popular theory is that the MX we saw is Terra-Xehanort, with the exact same heart/body composition as Apprentice Xehanort, the only difference being the appearance. Or he's the Terra-Xehanort that permits all Xehanorts, including MX as his own person, to travel to the present.

I understand how it plays around with the Ultimania wording a little (which, to be fair, is technically still a fan translation prone to technical errors), but if it answers particular questions in a simple and understandable way, I think it's justified.

That's were your wrong, our debate is very much over how much time the "final product" takes because your stating that somehow, overnight practically, that one of MX's vessels changed into MX completely when vessels that have been norting over a decade like Braig have only managed to get as far as being "half Xehanort".

It was never said he needs his vessels to become him completely just that he needs 13 versions of himself for vessels. So whether they are only partly or born directly of him, just partially norted is all he needs for his plan.
I don't really see how the time length of the process is relevant to what I'm getting at. I mean, a SoD is a SoD. My question is, what makes a SoD? And I think it's a fragment of MX (in some form or another) as he was before extracting his heart.

I dont accept the MX we seen was from bbs as he wouldn't be the "most future self" since bbs is in Xehanorts past. If we look at it from meaning what you described in the other thread the other day it'd make no sense as any version older than YX would count as a most future self.
Like I said, it could be a matter of MX no longer having any more of a "future self" after extracting his heart (and therefore making him the most future self), and every other Xehanort being a knockoff.
 

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Well, clearly MX did take control of the body for some time during his time as AX, beating out both Terra and Eraqus, but it's entirely possible that perhaps he was always planning to go back into his original body in the future. I know he quotes his body as "aging" in BbS, hence his need for Terra's, but given the constant battle they probably had internally, perhaps MX's plan changed to stay in Terra's as long as possible and then revert back to his original geezer form far into the future so that there wouldn't be so much resistance. His body was constantly aging so perhaps by sending his heart into Terra's, he halted the aging process of his old body, preserving it for far into the future when he needed complete control of his body back again. This would allow his old body to be the past and the "most future" versions of himself.
That's possible as we know that a heart is required to age so when he ditched his body for terras he would've effectively preserved his body all these years.

I understand that option B is both possible and plausible (option A, ehhhh). My argument is that there can be an option C, that being MX is both YX's most future self and also a time-traveler from BBS' time. But I'd also like to bring up the idea that MX is YX's only other true self; every other Xehanort is pretty much a knockoff (even Terra-Xehanort, since him being the same person as MX is almost like saying there's no difference between Apprentice Xehanort and Riku-Ansem).
Yeah I aint to sure on option A myself. It's cause MX is YX only true counterpart that I bring up my point. From a time traveling perspective his "most future self" wouldn't be someone from the past even if that past is his future but rather the version of himself within the present. Which is from what perspective he was talking in when conversing with Riku when bringing up said future self.

To Riku, with whom he was explaining, his "most future self" would've been Xehanort of the present.

But Xehanort is very relevant to Terra's whereabouts.

When MX laid down that clue about Terra being a SoD, he pretty much answered half the question of "Where are Terra's heart and body?" (More specifically, where is his present self), that answer being "He's somewhere in this little sewing circle." (This is also assuming that Terra's heart is with his body, but I really don't see where else it could have gone). He has to have a fragment of Xehanort within him to be a SoD. Yeah, it could just be a fragment, and not the whole thing; for all we know, he could be controlled by Xemnas' fragment, and therefore become Terra-Xemnas. Or, the more popular theory is that the MX we saw is Terra-Xehanort, with the exact same heart/body composition as Apprentice Xehanort, the only difference being the appearance. Or he's the Terra-Xehanort that permits all Xehanorts, including MX as his own person, to travel to the present.

I understand how it plays around with the Ultimania wording a little (which, to be fair, is technically still a fan translation prone to technical errors), but if it answers particular questions in a simple and understandable way, I think it's justified.
I never said it wasn't relevant just pointing out that isn't what's important for the very reason you mentioned just there, it's was obvious that, in relation to Xehanorts whereabouts, Terra was present in that room.
But what I'm talking about isn't his physical location but the condition Terra's body is in when addressing the quote.

The question was where is terra, it had nothing to do with his most future self. The most future self part wasn't even apart of the question asked in the ultimania. The question was about what condition each were in and as we saw MX is in his former state while Terra's is only answered as far as that he's under his control.

YX referred to his most future self when doing some of his little troll explanations, pointed to the seat he'd appear in and later MX formed in that very spot.
There's no doubt Terra's also in the present but if he's no longer MX's host he can't be YX's most future self as MX's heart, the core of who Xehanort and YX is, is no longer within Terra.

The translation is indeed prone to errors but if such ones existed they'd have been noticed by now, especially by staff or others who can actually read japanese here.
Dancing around words isn't justified as it's only wording them in a manner that distracts from what they actually mean.
That'd be like me dancing around written laws to get away from a crime or prank when, no matter how I word it, it doesnt change the fact that I did wrong.

I don't really see how the time length of the process is relevant to what I'm getting at. I mean, a SoD is a SoD. My question is, what makes a SoD? And I think it's a fragment of MX (in some form or another) as he was before extracting his heart.
Your the one that brought up aging and the length of time to begin with though. You answered your own question which has been known for a long time now, what makes and SoD is a part of xehanorts heart within a vessel.

Whether that part came before or after MX first extracted his heart doesn't matter as all of its pieces originate from MX and as I pointed out, which was proven by the knockoffs that appeared in DDD, they dont need to fully become MX nor was that ever said to be a requirement.
He just needs them to change enough to equal up to 13 different versions of himself that he can control.

Like I said, it could be a matter of MX no longer having any more of a "future self" after extracting his heart (and therefore making him the most future self), and every other Xehanort being a knockoff.
That would contradict the laws of time. He HAS to have a future and present self else he couldn't appear in DDD nor kh3. MX from bbs can't be his most future self as he's from the past from the present's perspective which is what YX was talking in as he was speaking to Riku when addressing it.

I could see your point having more ground if he was a wandering shadow like Ansem was but he wasn't he's either in Terra or in his original body.

EDIT::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I re-watched some DDD scenes for some clarity and even here:


MX says all his vessels were meant to appear to "welcome his return as a complete person". Notice his says "return" and "complete person".

He's practically stating right here that he's MX again as he's returned and complete as in he's returned to being a whole person after so many years.
His heart has returned to his original body thus why he says he's "complete". If he was time traveling from any point in time he wouldn't be returning nor would he have just become complete as he was already complete in bbs.
 
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Nayru's Love

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Well shit, I'll call that a cased closed. I'm not happy, though, since now my list of predicted SoD's is down by one.
 

Face My Fears

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Didn't Young Xehanort call Master Xehanort in KH3D his "most distant" self or something along those lines? Maybe that was the Master Xehanort from KH3 that's revived somehow? I dunno, this is still a bit confusing to me.
 

Gram

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^ It is which is what me and Nayru were debating over. It is indeed the MX revived, which was mentioned to happen in recodeds secret ending, upon the destruction of Ansem and Xemnas' destruction.
Which in turn was confirmed in the post I made above.

It's confusing for everyone but, at the very least, we do know that this MX is the present and main Xehanort brought back from Ansem and Xemnas.
However this still doesn't clarify the bit mentioned in the ultimania when Nomura was asked about Terra. Terra's been purposely left a mystery.
 

RoXi

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It's not that I dont understand his point it's just I dont see much reason in it for Xehanort.

The whole point of stealing Terra's body was to be young again and I dont see him discarding it unless he was forced out through some means and since the ultimania brings up the revival I take it to mean that it was the defeat of Ansem and Xemnas and thus the process of terra's body+soul forcing itself back with Terra's heart.

The ultimania specifically brings up the question of what happened to Terra's body during the revival not anything after.

And I dont think MX would abandon Terra's body just to fill a vessel seat when he could use YX to get his old self from BBS to fill that role while retaining Terra's younger body.


the way I see it, the reason we see Xehanort in his old man form at the end of DDD was because he was gearing up to take over Sora's body, thus he would have to abandon his current host, Terra/TerraNort
 
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