So Uh how is a Young Xehanort going to become one of the thirtheen darknesses?



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So uh how is Young Xehanort be able to physically join the new Organisation 13?

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D VLK

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After some deep thinking I finnaly figured most of the plot and lore of kingdomhearts. I even know how time travel works for a big part however my question is. How can Young Xehanort become one of the 13 darknesses if time itself is immovable? In Kingdomhearts it's stated that you cannot rewrite events fated to happen. It's the very reason Young Xehanort has to go back in time to become all those different versions of xehanort. However near the end of the game he's seen with a seat in the organisation 13 implying he will comeback in a sequel at the very least. I can understand how Master Xehanort can converse with all other versions of himself in the present. And that is because removing them from thier respective times won't have any major effect on time if there's atleast another older version of xehanort to become the younger versions in the first place. Basically you need the cause to have an result. You need the orgin to have an end. Young Xehanort admitted himself that he will go back in time with all his gained memories and experiences wiped to become all other versions since without him all other versions will logically not exist.

And sure you can argue that Baby Xehanort up to including kid and Pre teen Xehanort still exist even futher in the past however the fact that hes bestowed with the Job to become all those other versions of Xehanort might imply that either all events concerning Xehanort prior to his teen Years were all fated events thus they cannot be rewritten aka you couldn't manipulate those with Time Travel so maby that's why Ansem only approached himself in his teen years. It definately be easier to have a weaker more expendable version of Xehanort do al the gathering for you so that you can keep Teenage Xehanort the one with lightsabers from going back to the past to become the current you in the first place.
Or am I missing something here?

It's perfectly reasonable to pick out Master Xehanort up to and including Xemnas because you'd still have atleast one xehanort in the past to become Old Master Xehanort. Then get owned by terra to become Terra Xehanort, Then become a heartless and become Ansem seeker of Darkness While your stolen body of terra becomes the nobody to eventually come back as master xehanort.
 

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Your post seemed to get lost in a corn maze of "but then this must happen to this." I had a hard time following where you were going, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting hung up on.

In any case, Xehanort has the ability to travel through time because he left his body behind at least once. It just means he's capable of traveling through time again, he just can't alter anything. So he can't undo his failures but there's nothing stopping him from bringing back all his splintered versions of himself to the present time again. That includes his past self. When the damage is done, all versions of himself that have time traveled will go back to whence they came with no knowledge they had traveled in the first place.
 

Ruran

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If Xehanort were to attain the X-Blade, then Kingdom Hearts, he'd have God-like powers. He plans to rewrite the universe to his liking, so at that point, all logic goes out the window.
 

D VLK

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Your post seemed to get lost in a corn maze of "but then this must happen to this." I had a hard time following where you were going, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting hung up on.

In any case, Xehanort has the ability to travel through time because he left his body behind at least once. It just means he's capable of traveling through time again, he just can't alter anything. So he can't undo his failures but there's nothing stopping him from bringing back all his splintered versions of himself to the present time again. That includes his past self. When the damage is done, all versions of himself that have time traveled will go back to whence they came with no knowledge they had traveled in the first place.
If I remeber correctly Master Xehanort said that time will flow normal for all the other versions so that they live in the present time implying his other versions can stay with him in the present. It'd be quite inconvienent if all those versions have to constantly go back in time only to be picked up later constantlt.
I'm aware of this. The thing is he continously loses all expereinces and knowledge gained from time traveling. Then how will Master Xehanort set up his organisation if the one responsible for time traveling in the first place get's all actions and knowledge aquired and given reversed only to go back to time?

It makes no sense to set up an organisation in that way heck if what you are saying is true and this applies also to the other versions of xehanort then how in the world will Master Xehanort set up his orgisation to begin with with such an restrictions.
 

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That, my friend, is the power of Kingdom Hearts Logic. Its confusing, gives out more questions than it answers, and doesn't cop out quite the way Devil May Cry Logic answers its questions (which, for Devil May Cry, would be Rule of Cool).
Yeah, plus we already swam through the seven seas of Xion today already...

I think I may just need to fall back to the position of 'Disney Magic'...it's easily defensible.
 

Dandelion

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If I remeber correctly Master Xehanort said that time will flow normal for all the other versions so that they live in the present time implying his other versions can stay with him in the present. It'd be quite inconvienent if all those versions have to constantly go back in time only to be picked up later constantlt.
I'm aware of this. The thing is he continously loses all expereinces and knowledge gained from time traveling. Then how will Master Xehanort set up his organisation if the one responsible for time traveling in the first place get's all actions and knowledge aquired and given reversed only to go back to time?

It makes no sense to set up an organisation in that way heck if what you are saying is true and this applies also to the other versions of xehanort then how in the world will Master Xehanort set up his orgisation to begin with with such an restrictions.
It doesn't matter. Once you gain the ability to time travel, you don't lose it. Certain members of the True Organization XIII aren't time traveling, and they can remind whichever Xehanort to go back in time to try again, once the roster is back to being full.

The members of the true Organization don't need to stick around or to even remember what they're doing, they serve one purpose: to clash and forge the X-Blade.
 

D VLK

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It doesn't matter. Once you gain the ability to time travel, you don't lose it. Certain members of the True Organization XIII aren't time traveling, and they can remind whichever Xehanort to go back in time to try again, once the roster is back to being full.

The members of the true Organization don't need to stick around or to even remember what they're doing, they serve one purpose: to clash and forge the X-Blade.

Kingdom Hearts 3D - Sora ending & Final BOSS English ( Sora's path ) walkthrough part 60 HD KH3D - YouTube

8.20:
Young Xehanort says that his experiences will be erased as well. He can move through time but aside from losing his memories his experiences itself would be erased as well which makes sense. It would be weird if he all of a sudden if one wakes up in his own time with suddenly him missing an arm. What if riku maimed him so horribly that he lost an eye? Or was damaged beyond repair? It would affect his decision making as well there's a reason time is erasing your memories in order to prevent a paradox from happening the fact that time is actively preventing xehanort from bieng affected by his new memories from the experiences in the present time implies that Time has no autorepair option which also imply that if in some hypothetical scenario another event were to occur it could change the flow of time. Time is immovable not because it's immovable no Time is immovable because it actively prevents changes from occuring. However he did claim that his heart was affected by Xehanort and his experiences here which is reasonable since a heart isn't really a physical object and you could argue that putting a xehanort seed in Young Xehanort wouldn't really affect his descion making since Xehanort is evil and all and was going to do all those kinds of things anyways that I can understand however it'd also make sense for his experiences to be reversed as well so. In this case whatever he did during his time travels ranging from fighting riku to going all morgan freeman on sora would be erased as well.

Still it'd be quite inconvienent considering You have like 13 members of which you have Terra Xehanort(implied to be with the 13 darkness), Young Xehanort,Xemnas, Ansem seeker of Darkness. Not to mention all these members are all pretty powerfull and are Part of xehanort himself. If the 13 darkness are meant to be at war with the 7 lights whose to say that this very restriction wouldn't cause thier very own downfall? It suck for xemnass to go back to his time in the heat of the battle right?
 

Dandelion

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8.20:
Young Xehanort says that his experiences will be erased as well. He can move through time but aside from losing his memories his experiences itself would be erased as well which makes sense. It would be weird if he all of a sudden if one wakes up in his own time with suddenly him missing an arm. What if riku maimed him so horribly that he lost an eye? Or was damaged beyond repair? It would affect his decision making as well there's a reason time is erasing your memories in order to prevent a paradox from happening the fact that time is actively preventing xehanort from bieng affected by his new memories from the experiences in the present time implies that Time has no autorepair option which also imply that if in some hypothetical scenario another event were to occur it could change the flow of time. Time is immovable not because it's immovable no Time is immovable because it actively prevents changes from occuring.
This was brought up in another topic. The conclusion was that instead of dying or truly being harmed or maimed, Xehanort would just return to the original point he left, totally unscathed and unaware that anything happened.


However he did claim that his heart was affected by Xehanort and his experiences here which is reasonable since a heart isn't really a physical object and you could argue that putting a xehanort seed in Young Xehanort wouldn't really affect his descion making since Xehanort is evil and all and was going to do all those kinds of things anyways that I can understand however it'd also make sense for his experiences to be reversed as well so. In this case whatever he did during his time travels ranging from fighting riku to going all morgan freeman on sora would be erased as well.
Xehanort doesn't need to put fractions of his heart into his original self. Anything can happen to him as he's time traveling, but like you see and have stated: it doesn't matter. As long as Xehanort is able to pull his selves out of time again it shouldn't matter if they remember anything. In theory: they just need to be there.


Still it'd be quite inconvienent considering You have like 13 members of which you have Terra Xehanort(implied to be with the 13 darkness), Young Xehanort,Xemnas, Ansem seeker of Darkness. Not to mention all these members are all pretty powerfull and are Part of xehanort himself. If the 13 darkness are meant to be at war with the 7 lights whose to say that this very restriction wouldn't cause thier very own downfall? It suck for xemnass to go back to his time in the heat of the battle right?
It very well could. I suspect they're able to stick around for just as long as they need to. The battle between the lights and the darknesses is not the war. The battle is the prelude to war, and as far as I can tell, Xehanort probably doesn't care if any of them but himself survive long enough to see it.
 

D VLK

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This was brought up in another topic. The conclusion was that instead of dying or truly being harmed or maimed, Xehanort would just return to the original point he left, totally unscathed and unaware that anything happened.
Aka event reversal the event of him bieng hurt in the first place is erased. The thing even that conclusion supports what suggested. Experiences containing the subject must be reversed along with memories so that no trace remains.

Xehanort doesn't need to put fractions of his heart into his original self. Anything can happen to him as he's time traveling, but like you see and have stated: it doesn't matter. As long as Xehanort is able to pull his selves out of time again it shouldn't matter if they remember anything. In theory: they just need to be there.
Yes he does that's the entire point of the new organisation 13. Xehanort will divide his heart into 13 so that each member will have heart of pure darkness this process will slowly turn every member into a Xehanort clone. Young Xehanort did imply that the present affected his heart in some way maby the heart can be affected so that Master Xehanort doesn't continually hase to divide his own heart the moment those 13 darknesses come back.

It very well could. I suspect they're able to stick around for just as long as they need to. The battle between the lights and the darknesses is not the war. The battle is the prelude to war, and as far as I can tell, Xehanort probably doesn't care if any of them but himself survive long enough to see it.
Master Xehanort might not care however having that restriction causing his plan to fail might concern him.
 

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Aka event reversal the event of him bieng hurt in the first place is erased. The thing even that conclusion supports what suggested. Experiences containing the subject must be reversed along with memories so that no trace remains.
True, and this is a protocol that ensures the continuity of a single, non-branching flow of timeline.

Yes he does that's the entire point of the new organisation 13. Xehanort will divide his heart into 13 so that each member will have heart of pure darkness this process will slowly turn every member into a Xehanort clone. Young Xehanort did imply that the present affected his heart in some way maby the heart can be affected so that Master Xehanort doesn't continually hase to divide his own heart the moment those 13 darknesses come back.
But why would he implant his heart into Young Xehanort, who essentially was himself? There was a need to implant others to make them him, but YX was already him. Even without seeding, he is already more Xehanort than others because, after all, he's the one who will grow up into Old Baldie who's the reason all this happened in the first place.
 

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True, and this is a protocol that ensures the continuity of a single, non-branching flow of timeline.



But why would he implant his heart into Young Xehanort, who essentially was himself? There was a need to implant others to make them him, but YX was already him. Even without seeding, he is already more Xehanort than others because, after all, he's the one who will grow up into Old Baldie who's the reason all this happened in the first place.
Thank you, that's exactly what I was saying. Xehanort never said turning the vessels into himself would give them hearts of pure darkness. Total light and darkness go out the window for the recipe, the lights and the darknesses just have to be strong. Xehanort's goal doesn't seem to be total darkness in their hearts, but rather, total control. He's already capable of possessing his past self, we see it happen as he's reforming on his throne and Mickey stops time.
 
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Aka event reversal the event of him bieng hurt in the first place is erased. The thing even that conclusion supports what suggested. Experiences containing the subject must be reversed along with memories so that no trace remains.



Yes he does that's the entire point of the new organisation 13. Xehanort will divide his heart into 13 so that each member will have heart of pure darkness this process will slowly turn every member into a Xehanort clone. Young Xehanort did imply that the present affected his heart in some way maby the heart can be affected so that Master Xehanort doesn't continually hase to divide his own heart the moment those 13 darknesses come back.
Your correct on the first part in that time can't be altered and to make sure it's not it undoes anything learned when traveling to the future like memories.
Xehanort explained it himself in the line that "though one can move through time, time itself is immovable" and later by saying you can't alter what is meant to happen. (if you could do such things he'd done have exploited it)
So, logically, it only makes sense any past Xehanorts are simply send back to their natural time because they are destined to reform as MX in DDD so they can't die in a time they aren't meant too.

The second part however is a bit misinformed. What Xehanort is doing is spreading his heart among 13 vessels, he's never once said anything about needing them to be pure dark.
The way to fully, rightfully and correctly to restore the Xblade is to make it's 20 pieces clash. The 7 of light and the 13 of darkness, his vessels are meant to serve that role for the dark shards of the blade while either the Guardians of Light or the 7 Princesses fill the role for the light shards.
By dividing his heart MX has secured the vessels he needs and also ensured that they are under his complete control.

It was never once said anywhere that the Guardians or Seekers need to be pure light and dark themselves, only that they need to serve the role that ties them to the original and pure shards of the Xblade itself.

As for Young Xehanort well he can't implant a shard of his heart when YX IS himself, there is no point. It's the same heart and the same man unlike the other Xehonarts which are combinations of varying sorts.
Young Xehanort is Master Xehanort and Master Xehanort is Young Xehanort, the only difference between them is age and experience.

But why would he implant his heart into Young Xehanort, who essentially was himself? There was a need to implant others to make them him, but YX was already him. Even without seeding, he is already more Xehanort than others because, after all, he's the one who will grow up into Old Baldie who's the reason all this happened in the first place.
So in a nutshell, this basically ^
 

D VLK

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True, and this is a protocol that ensures the continuity of a single, non-branching flow of timeline.



But why would he implant his heart into Young Xehanort, who essentially was himself? There was a need to implant others to make them him, but YX was already him. Even without seeding, he is already more Xehanort than others because, after all, he's the one who will grow up into Old Baldie who's the reason all this happened in the first place.
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13 vessels with pure darkness. There's a reason Master Xehanort created vanitas and gave ven a heart of pure light. In order to create the x-blade and summon kingdomhearts pure light and pure darkness need to clash. He then went on the gather seven princesses of light once again but failed again. The fact that Xehanort needs to fill all other vessels with pure darkness would suggest that even Young Xehanort heart doesn't conist of pure darkness yet. Xemnas is a nobody so he needs to be filled with an heart and while tetsuya nomamura implied that xemnas grew a heart of his own and even implied that he could use the x-blade It'd still be questionable if his heart would be of pure darkness given it's actually terra's body.

Master Yen Sid said that once riku and sora completed thier journey they would be filled with special light or magical power something in that direction. Maby thier hearts won't be pure however they may have accumilated enough light based magical power to forge the x-blade.
 

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Nope. Start quoting from the script: GameFAQs: Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (3DS) Game Script by DJ Firewolf (it's so much easier in cases like these)

Now he does say pure darkness- I'll give you that- but I don't think it's so literal as was the case with Vanitas.


13 vessels with pure darkness. There's a reason Master Xehanort created vanitas and gave ven a heart of pure light. In order to create the x-blade and summon kingdom hearts pure light and pure darkness need to clash.
Yes, but that attempt was too hasty, it was also a failure. Here's the official definition of the X-Blade by the Official Kingdom Hearts Glossary:

If Kingdom Hearts is a lock, then this blade from the age of fairy tales was the key.It could be argued that without the χ-blade, the Keyblade War might never have been waged; after all, you cannot possess what you cannot find or unlock.
It is clear the blade was the inspiration for human-wrought Keyblades. The letter χ can be pronounced both "key" or "kye" (leading to some confusion) and symbolizes the perfect crossing of light and darkness. The χ-blade can be forged via a high-dimensional clash between those two poles.
It is believed that the Recusant's Sigil also derives from χ.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the light and darkness need to be pure, just really strong.
He then went on the gather seven princesses of light once again but failed again.
He didn't fail. The princesses were found and gathered and the door was created, Xehanort's overall goal of finding them wasn't a failure. He knows where they are now if he needs that strong light again.

The fact that Xehanort needs to fill all other vessels with pure darkness would suggest that even Young Xehanort heart doesn't conist of pure darkness yet. Xemnas is a nobody so he needs to be filled with an heart and while tetsuya nomamura implied that xemnas grew a heart of his own and even implied that he could use the x-blade It'd still be questionable if his heart would be of pure darkness given it's actually terra's body.
However! Xigbar said absolutely nothing about pure darkness, he said heart and mind. Pumping a heart full of darkness wouldn't make it pureer.

Master Yen Sid said that once riku and sora completed thier journey they would be filled with special light or magical power something in that direction.
I'm sorry, Yen Sid said nothing in that direction. What he said was that they needed a new kind of power to awaken those lost in sleep. Had absolutely nothing to do with their light.

Maby thier hearts won't be pure however they may have accumilated enough light based magical power to forge the x-blade.
Again, I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the darknesses have to be pure, but the lights can have a pass.
 

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One thing that we must not forget is that while there are people whose hearts are pure light, there is so far no one whose heart is pure darkness, save for Vanitas who was a personification of Ventus' darkness.

This might be a little bit of a stretch, but I believe that light is the most basic element of the heart. When someone is born, their heart is filled with the light of Kingdom Hearts (the place or state where hearts come from), and this light, however small and however consumed by the darkness that would begin to creep in some time in their lives, will always be there. Even Xehanort is not exempt from this rule because he too was born naturally; therefore, he must have some light within him even though the darkness of his heart completely eclipses it.

This means that seeding will not cause the host to brim with pure darkness unless it is done only with the dark part of Xehanort's heart. Even then, there's still the host's heart, which must hold a glimmer of light. There really is no need to "indoctrinate" pure darkness into the hearts of the hosts, because as has been stated, it is not required in order to perfectly forge the X-blade; only strong lights and strong darknesses are.
 
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