Should Ventus or kairi get a stand-alone full Game...?

[Foxycian]

So what will it take for her personality to be "good enough" for you? How will she ever be able to show her personality if she is always on the sidelines? She hasn't really changed from KH1 besides being able to fight and actively asking to fight.

I rather dedicate a game to a character with limited backstory like Kairi, than give it to Ven who we know his life story. What more is there to learn about Ven? It'll be more interesting to see where a Kairi story can go because we know less about her, that means she's a blank slate and there's less redtape and canon to follow (like Ven).

Basically I'm saying that for storytelling, Kairi would be the better character to go with because she has more potential of what can be done compared to Ven. In terms of marketing, Kairi is more well known than Ven. The average player doesn't really know Ven (if they don't mistake him for Roxas), but even with her extremely limited usage in the Xehanort Saga, Kairi is more prominent and well known.

1. I have nothing against her personality, I’m happy she got MoM to herself but I’m still not sure if Kairi can handle full long sole game yet but that’s just my opinion, I won’t know until I see for myself what Kairi can do, also both her and Ventus have unexplored interesting pasts not really just kairi, even Axel and isa and their past connection with subject X, tbh I’m satisfied with Kairi story is explored in a short (Re:Coded style) Game like MoM, and I like that Ventus story is being explored in Union Cross, altho im looking forward to more TAV stuff in the future since each have their own struggle

2. yea people mistake him for Roxas but still I’m pretty sure Sora/Roxas/Ventus who share the face model are more known then everyone since they literally represented the series with their face that resembles Sora, when people think of kingdom hearts back in the day it’s mostly Sora or Roxas that comes to their mind, birth by sleep hyped many people back in the day cause many thought Ventus was Roxas, either way those three characters are identical, Ven is just overshadowed by his two counterparts cause well they are more known and more popular, Sora cheerful personality and Roxas cool edginess is popular in Japan and worldwide, Ventus taken little on both of those personalities but wasn’t really enough to be as popular as these two

3. Also again other then Sora no character got a true full game to him self in kingdom hearts except Roxas, even Riku doesn’t have a game to himself but a 50% 50% shared with Sora in DDD and re chain of memeory, MoM like Re:Coded might not have long in cutscenes but again like Re:Coded it’s still somewhat full game, so Kairi is the first to actually get her own game besides Roxas, while the rest might still keep getting shared games which I don’t mind really

Also my bad I had to Repost this cause I didn’t know how to use the Quote separately

But eitherway I’ll just tell you This, THIS IS ALL MY OPINION, You are free to disagree with it, but whatever you’ll say later I’ll just leave this here

To each their own so whatever floats your boat, bud

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Next to Xion, those are the next two characters I can hardly give a damn about. Ventus was doomed as an additional cast member when Nomura decided to have him look exactly like Roxas with Sora's personality (except even purer). He literally has no distinction in anything. In KHUx he's still the same as always. He's only interesting by virtue of what's happening around him rather than being the one to push the plot forward. It was Darkness.

Kairi's issue is that her entire character revolves and circles around Sora. Any game with her would be about saving or helping Sora. Depending how MoM goes, I feel that's as far as you can get with Kairi with her past being uncovered. And then what? We get a game where she grows as a fighter? When Re:Mind basically renounced that by having her be the one to disperse Xemnas' energy blades over veteran wielders? What flaw does she have to change?

They had us going there for a couple of seconds in the beginning of KHIII what with getting a glimpse of the training camp where she easily could have been the tutorial and her speech about Naminè where her goals could have shifted to someone that doesn't have brown spiky hair, yet...

 

[Foxycian]

Next to Xion, those are the next two characters I can hardly give a damn about. Ventus was doomed as an additional cast member when Nomura decided to have him look exactly like Roxas with Sora's personality (except even purer). He literally has no distinction in anything. In KHUx he's still the same as always. He's only interesting by virtue of what's happening around him rather than being the one to push the plot forward. It was Darkness.

Kairi's issue is that her entire character revolves and circles around Sora. Any game with her would be about saving or helping Sora. Depending how MoM goes, I feel that's as far as you can get with Kairi with her past being uncovered. And then what? We get a game where she grows as a fighter? When Re:Mind basically renounced that by having her be the one to disperse Xemnas' energy blades over veteran wielders? What flaw does she have to change?

They had us going there for a couple of seconds in the beginning of KHIII what with getting a glimpse of the training camp where she easily could have been the tutorial and her speech about Naminè where her goals could have shifted to someone that doesn't have brown spiky hair, yet...

Isn’t Kairi story kinda similar to Axel and Aqua and to little extent Kh1 Sora? Aqua in bbs is just where are my friends? Axel in DDD and kh3 where is Roxas? Sora in kh1 where is Riku and Kairi? And now Kairi story is where is Sora? a lot of characters don’t really have that much of an interesting story.

Edit:I agree with Face My Fears, Kairi story may revolve around Sora sometimes or looking for him, but MoM has her own story with exploring her past, similar to how 0.2 gives Aqua a story about her struggle and surviving instead of just chasing her friends.

 

[Face My Fears]

Next to Xion, those are the next two characters I can hardly give a damn about. Ventus was doomed as an additional cast member when Nomura decided to have him look exactly like Roxas with Sora's personality (except even purer). He literally has no distinction in anything. In KHUx he's still the same as always. He's only interesting by virtue of what's happening around him rather than being the one to push the plot forward. It was Darkness.

Kairi's issue is that her entire character revolves and circles around Sora. Any game with her would be about saving or helping Sora. Depending how MoM goes, I feel that's as far as you can get with Kairi with her past being uncovered. And then what? We get a game where she grows as a fighter? When Re:Mind basically renounced that by having her be the one to disperse Xemnas' energy blades over veteran wielders? What flaw does she have to change?

They had us going there for a couple of seconds in the beginning of KHIII what with getting a glimpse of the training camp where she easily could have been the tutorial and her speech about Naminè where her goals could have shifted to someone that doesn't have brown spiky hair, yet...

I thought it was abundantly clear that MoM was going to deal with more than just "where's my man?" for Kairi. We see her past (before Sora) and what Ansem did to her. She clearly going into her memories for more than just Sora, because maybe whatever happened to her is important moving forward (IE the ark).

But I guess everyone just wants to dismiss Kairi as trash, even when Nomura TRIES to give her something.

 

[Elysium]

But I guess everyone just wants to dismiss Kairi as trash, even when Nomura TRIES to give her something.

Well, some opinions are concrete and unchanging, no matter the discussion or arguments. It's not like people have to pretend they've changed their minds just for the appearance of being "agreeable," when they don't really believe the character is very good or worth the attention fans want her to receive. It's not something said to be hurtful to those who are fans of the character, it just is what it is. I've said before that even if they try to do something with her now, it's just going to come across like personality transplant rather than development because it's not representative of the character we've been shown for close to two decades who has no motivation in the story beyond sitting with Sora on a Paopu Tree.

 

[Face My Fears]

Well, some opinions are concrete and unchanging, no matter the discussion or arguments. It's not like people have to pretend they've changed their minds just for the appearance of being "agreeable," when they don't really believe the character is very good or worth the attention fans want her to receive. It's not something said to be hurtful to those who are fans of the character, it just is what it is. I've said before that even if they try to do something with her now, it's just going to come across like personality transplant rather than development because it's not representative of the character we've been shown for close to two decades who has no motivation in the story beyond sitting with Sora on a Paopu Tree.

How can it be a "personality transplant" if everyone admits that we barely got anything from Kairi!? That means we don't even know her personality that well just yet.

I get why people are sticking to their guns regarding their distaste for Kairi, but at least let her be a fleshed out character before making an actual judgement. That's like if people said they hated Roxas based on "Another Side, Another Story" only.

Also, a lot of the stuff that we see teased for MoM doesn't seem to be pulled out of thin air and just shoved onto Kairi. We knew that Ansem threw her into space, we saw The Ark in KH1 in Kairi's home world, so it makes sense to actually explore that part of her past. Also her feelings towards Ansem after what he did to her (and Riku and *gasp* Sora - I know people hate mentioning him while talking to Kairi, but I will) are valid and should be explored. Why do you think she was sitting on the damn papou tree?! Sure, it was to be with her man, but she also wanted to get off the island... hm, I wonder why? Maybe to find out how she GOT on the island or where she came from? Or is that motivation not valid?

People can go on about how it's 15 years too late or whatever, but at the end of the day she still has potential and isn't absolutely ruined. I think people should be more open to giving Nomura a chance, rather than being so negative and dismissing everything. I think the negativity comes from how long it's been in real world time, compared to the games. If this were a TV show or something, it'd be equivalent to Kairi getting development maybe 10-11 episodes into the show, which is fine with me as there were other main story events taking place.

 

[Elysium]

I actually don't mind that you mention Sora within discussion of Kairi, because that's all there is to her. Which is a shame because there was some Radiant Garden potential there, but it's been so long now, for the character to suddenly show interest in it out-of-the-blue wouldn't even make sense. It's more when people bring up Riku in relation to Kairi that it's nails on chalkboard to me. I have never bought the idea that Kairi had any connection to Riku at all other than they interacted with Sora at the same time. Only the fact that Nomura became obsessed with trinities later on during the side games did we retroactively look at Sora, Riku, and Kairi as if it was some kind of tight-knit trio of the ages.

Also that comparison to judging Roxas on the Another Side secret video is a bit... Extreme. We're talking about a series of 10+ installments versus a 3 minute video. I mean, hey, love the character and continue to wish she takes over the series going forward if you want, but my mind isn't one that will shift on that point. I only wanted to make it known that disliking a character isn't a personal attack on the character's fans.

 

[Face My Fears]

I actually don't mind that you mention Sora within discussion of Kairi, because that's all there is to her. Which is a shame because there was some Radiant Garden potential there, but it's been so long now, for the character to suddenly show interest in it out-of-the-blue wouldn't even make sense. It's more when people bring up Riku in relation to Kairi that it's nails on chalkboard to me. I have never bought the idea that Kairi had any connection to Riku at all other than they interacted with Sora at the same time. Only the fact that Nomura became obsessed with trinities later on during the side games did we retroactively look at Sora, Riku, and Kairi as if it was some kind of tight-knit trio of the ages.

Also that comparison to judging Roxas on the Another Side secret video is a bit... Extreme. We're talking about a series of 10+ installments versus a 3 minute video. I mean, hey, love the character and continue to wish she takes over the series going forward if you want, but my mind isn't one that will shift on that point. I only wanted to make it known that disliking a character isn't a personal attack on the character's fans.

Kairi isn't even one of my favourite characters. I definitely don't want her to take over, but she should get the spotlight and I personally think that right now is the best time. She served her purpose in earlier installments and they could have used her much better, but given the fact that the story worked without her being more involved says that she wasn't needed for THAT story. But going forward, it seems that she's being positioned into a major player - and it makes sense, rather than stuff pulled out of thin air (like Ven being from the ancient past - that is a desperate attempt to make a character relevant).

Also, when people claim that Riku/Kairi had no connection clearly are selectively choosing to forget KH1 and KH2 - which are basically the only games that they were physically in the same location enough to actually interact... and they did. Especially a key moment in KH2 when Riku was so ashamed to be seen by his best friend Kairi that he was going to run away, but Kairi stopped him and saw through the Ansem facade. They didn't interact much on screen, but the very few moments that we did get showed that they were friends and close.

I think this discussion basically brings up the issue Nomura created for KH, which is his constant separation of characters except for Sora/Riku. Aqua's trapped in the realm of darkness, Ven's asleep, Terra is Lingering Will/Xemnas, Xion is forgotten, Namine and Roxas are reabsorbed, and of course Kairi is stuck on Destiny Islands waiting... with all these characters separated, how can you really expect any interactions or relationships to really be built on screen? In this situation, we just have to go with what we're told - Riku/Kairi are good friends. Sure, it's not a good way to tell the story or build their relationship, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Foxycian]

It’s hilarious how you guys give all this crap to Ventus (who actually has a personality and a past) but you’re totally fine with that walking talking zombie in birth by sleep “Aqua” I guess being a girl gives you a pass? White knights much? Even if 0.2 wasn’t made to correct her flaws I feel like you guys would have still defended her flaws

and it makes sense, rather than stuff pulled out of thin air (like Ven being from the ancient past - that is a desperate attempt to make a character relevant).

Umm Ven is originally master Xehanort apprentice right? Even if Ven wasn’t from the past he would have still had “somewhat” a past cause we don’t know where Xehanort found him


welp continue your debates as much as you want I said what I wanted to say and if you want keep ignoring my comments or what I said eh up to you.

 

[Face My Fears]

It’s hilarious how you guys give all this crap to Ventus (who actually has a personality and a past) but you’re totally fine with that walking talking zombie in birth by sleep “Aqua” I guess being a girl gives you a pass? White knights much? Even if 0.2 wasn’t made to correct her flaws I feel like you guys would have still defended her flaws



Umm Ven is originally master Xehanort apprentice right? Even if Ven wasn’t from the past he would have still had “somewhat” a past cause we don’t know where Xehanort found him


welp continue your debates as much as you want I said what I wanted to say and if you want keep ignoring my comments or what I said eh up to you.

Aqua scored a solo title because she was a breath of fresh air for the series and the shining star from BbS. I didn't see any flaws in Aqua in BbS except for her dumb choice to send Xehanort back, but that was justified because she thought it was Terra. I have no idea why or how you could call Aqua a "walking zombie" in BbS. She was literally the main reason to play BbS.

Yeah Ven was originally Master Xehanort's apprentice, but... so what? It was such a minor part of Ven's story and practically forgotten (it will probably reappear in Dark Road) that it had no relevance in KH III when Ven was actually able to confront Master Xehanort - and didn't. Ven uttered not a single word to his former master that basically ruined the lives of everyone he loved (and his own life).

My issue isn't with Ven, but rather the fact that Nomura decided to retroactively throw in that Ven is from the ancient past which only seemed to matter because of the upcoming Foretellers saga. That was completely inorganic because the Foretellers saga is brand new, while Ven existed before that saga was even conceived. While Kairi's development in MoM, regardless of how much you hate her, is much more organic because Kairi was confirmed since KH1 to have been thrown into space by Ansem (the Ark) and she has unfinished business with Ansem/Xehanort.

The difference is that Ven was selected to be from the past (most likely) because he had no other characteristics or storylines available, and connecting people to the past is Nomura's easy way to give relevance (like Lauriam/Elrena). Ven being from the past wasn't alluded to, except for his mysterious origins (which was probably a safety net for Nomura, which came in handy clearly). While Kairi's story in MoM uses established stuff from earlier KH games and fleshes them out - which is organic.

 

[Foxycian]

Aqua scored a solo title because she was a breath of fresh air for the series and the shining star from BbS. I didn't see any flaws in Aqua in BbS except for her dumb choice to send Xehanort back, but that was justified because she thought it was Terra. I have no idea why or how you could call Aqua a "walking zombie" in BbS. She was literally the main reason to play BbS.

How is Aqua the main reason to play bbs? Her story didn’t even feel like it was a part of the main story until the final ep, the girl felt like a third wheel, didn’t even get a story focused on her until secret ep and 0.2, back in bbs it was just disney rides for her until the final episode, and again how was she the main reason to play bbs? The game felt like terra story and to little extent Ven, Aqua didn’t even need to fight Terranort, he already got his butt kicked by lingering will and was send to radiant garden and be taken by Ansem the wise, so Aqua fighting terranort was just pointless and all she accomplished there was being stuck in the realm of darkness they seriously just got rid of her cause she finished her role which is store Ventus in castle of oblivion then that’s that your job here is done “gets thrown into the realm of darkness until kh3” aqua is part of the 3 mains but where do people get the idea she is the main reason to play bbs?

The difference is that Ven was selected to be from the past (most likely) because he had no other characteristics or storylines available, and connecting people to the past is Nomura's easy way to give relevance (like Lauriam/Elrena). Ven being from the past wasn't alluded to, except for his mysterious origins (which was probably a safety net for Nomura, which came in handy clearly). While Kairi's story in MoM uses established stuff from earlier KH games and fleshes them out - which is organic.

Umm soo? Ventus the only one who had a personality in his trio, if terra and Aqua can still be around and be given new stories then why not Ven? The only excuse I can see is that Ven is being overshadowed by Sora and Roxas hence why he has an interesting past but even still Ven is already popular enough, might not be as much as Sora,Roxas,Riku,Axel,Aqua but still he is decently popular that he doesn’t need a past to make him better character, in bbs story his story was already good was about him discovering himself and trying to save his friends.

Edit: in terms of focus of bbs story in order it was
Terra>Ventus>Aqua

Aqua story was like Kh1 Sora that’s why I don’t really put her above the two since her story wasn’t the drive focus of the bbs story but instead she was just part of it, or basically say she was dragged into this conflict,

i won’t deny that she can be seen as breath of fresh air and I liked how they gave her the role of the hero, but still she wasn’t the main reason to play bbs it’s just fans and their overhype and her popularity that makes her seem she is the most important one.

 

[Face My Fears]

How is Aqua the main reason to play bbs? Her story didn’t even feel like it was a part of the main story until the final ep, the girl felt like a third wheel, didn’t even get a story focused on her until secret ep and 0.2, back in bbs it was just disney rides for her until the final episode, and again how was she the main reason to play bbs? The game felt like terra story and to little extent Ven, Aqua didn’t even need to fight Terranort, he already got his butt kicked by lingering will and was send to radiant garden and be taken by Ansem the wise, so Aqua fighting terranort was just pointless and all she accomplished there was being stuck in the realm of darkness they seriously just got rid of her cause she finished her role which is store Ventus in castle of oblivion then that’s that your job here is done “gets thrown into the realm of darkness until kh3” aqua is part of the 3 mains but where do people get the idea she is the main reason to play bbs?


Umm soo? Ventus the only one who had a personality in his trio, if terra and Aqua can still be around and be given new stories then why not Ven? The only excuse I can see is that Ven is being overshadowed by Sora and Roxas hence why he he has an interesting past but even still Ven is already popular enough, might not be as much as Sora,Roxas,Riku,Axel,Aqua but still he is decently popular that he doesn’t need a past to make him better character when bbs story was him discovering himself and trying to save his friends.

Edit: in terms of focus of bbs story in order it was
Terra>Ventus>Aqua

Aqua story was like Kh1 Sora that’s why I don’t really put her above the two since her story wasn’t the drive focus of the bbs story but instead she was just part of it, or basically say she was dragged into this conflict.

Ven had personality? He was just Sora and Roxas combined, which they do way better individually. Sure, Ven can be given NEW stories, notice the key word there is NEW. Giving Ven a connection to the past was a really desperate move by Nomura to give him relevance, unless "Darkness" turns out to be Vanitas and their exchange in KH III (when Vanitas dies) was something important. At this point, I'm more excited to see what Aqua and Terra get because Ven is now just another "person from the past that has become important because they're from the past and everything from the past is now relevant". I mean Marluxia and Larxene became relevant because of KHUX, but at least they were mostly blank slates to work with, so it wasn't that bad to make them from the past.

Also, having "an interesting past" doesn't instantly make the character good. I rather actually see what the character does to judge the character. Throwing tons of backstory onto Ventus does nothing for him at all. If Nomura didn't decide that he was from the past, I would have actually been happy to see Ven retired as a character as I couldn't see where else he could go. Especially considering that the more popular and more well known Roxas returned. I think you're overestimating Ven's popularity, let alone people actually knowing who he is. Casual players probably know more about Namine than Ven.

I should have been more clear, Aqua was the main reason that I played BbS... but I do think she was the main reason a lot of people played BbS because the series finally allowed a female character to be the main character/focus of the series and be playable. She may not have been the one most affected by Master Xehanort's plans, but that is the beauty of her role. She was the maternal figure watching out for Terra and Ven. She witnessed what was happening with both of them and had to make tough decisions regarding herself and her friends, in a situation that was out of her control. She had to change and grow a lot, which is what made her the stand out character in BbS because she actually changed and didn't fall into generic tropes. Terra was Anakin-Lite and Ven was the innocent boy.

Terra and Ven have been the most involved with the story in BbS, but ultimately that game was the story of Master Xehanort's first attempt at accessing Kingdom Hearts and obtaining a new body (also known as Nomura trying to set up KH III and explain stuff that he didn't in KH 2). Terra, Ven, and Aqua were just the entry points into Master Xehanort's story. It just so happens that Terra and Ven were pawns in Xehanort's plan, so their stories and characters were stuck while Aqua was the only one of them able to grow organically because she wasn't destined to become Xehanort's new body or hidden away while explaining why Roxas looks like him/how Castle Oblivion was born.

 

[Foxycian]

You make valid points but

Ven had personality? He was just Sora and Roxas combined,

Yet still has a personality, he has Sora cheerfulness and Roxas seriousness, Also Ven is smarter then Sora that’s another point, Aqua is just older kh2 Kairi and we know how bland kh2 kairi, Terra himself was bland too but he grew in his story while Aqua felt like it was just where are my friends

Ven is now just another "person from the past that has become important because they're from the past and everything from the past is now relevant". I mean Marluxia and Larxene became relevant because of KHUX, but at least they were mostly blank slates to work with, so it wasn't that bad to make them from the past.

I won’t deny that i was upset when they did that I wish he was from the birth by sleep timeline but really every mess started when dream drop distance introduced time travel so it was inevitable

I should have been more clear, Aqua was the main reason that I played BbS... but I do think she was the main reason a lot of people played BbS because the series finally allowed a female character to be the main character/focus of the series and be playable.

I’m pretty sure it was Ventus the Roxas lookalike that pulled the most people to birth by sleep and not Aqua, I would say Aqua is tied with terra, people wanted to know what is the story of terra the lingering will and Xehanort and also people wanted to know who was this new girl

Terra and Ven have been the most involved with the story in BbS, but ultimately that game was the story of Master Xehanort's first attempt at accessing Kingdom Hearts and obtaining a new body (also known as Nomura trying to set up KH III and explain stuff that he didn't in KH 2). Terra, Ven, and Aqua were just the entry points into Master Xehanort's story. It just so happens that Terra and Ven were pawns in Xehanort's plan, so their stories and characters were stuck while Aqua was the only one of them able to grow organically because she wasn't destined to become Xehanort's new body or hidden away while explaining why Roxas looks like him/how Castle Oblivion was born.

I won’t deny it’s mostly Xehanort story but also Ventus wasn’t really a pawn, you payed attention to the story? Only terra fell as a pawn, Ventus just like Aqua he did many good deeds in Disney worlds and grew in his adventure and matured the most in character among the three by the end and had the resolve to put an end to all of this, he destroyed his heart so the X blade won’t be complete making Xehanort plan fail and be delayed, only poor terra fell as a pawn and couldn’t escape his fate not even Aqua could have saved him his fate was sealed that day when he was possessed

the zombie comment I said for Aqua didn’t come from me I usually hear it from fans who find Aqua’s personality to be boring I always referred to Aqua as just bland, just a pancake nailed what I’m trying to say

 

[Face My Fears]

You make valid points but

Yet still has a personality, he has Sora cheerfulness and Roxas seriousness, Also Ven is smarter then Sora that’s another point, Aqua is just older kh2 Kairi and we know how bland kh2 kairi, Terra himself was bland too but he grew in his story while Aqua felt like it was just where are my friends


I won’t deny that i was upset when they did that I wish he was from the birth by sleep timeline but really every mess started when dream drop distance introduced time travel so it was inevitable



I’m pretty sure it was Ventus the Roxas lookalike that pulled the most people to birth by sleep and not Aqua, I would say Aqua is tied with terra, people wanted to know what is the story of terra the lingering will and Xehanort and also people wanted to know who was this new girl


I won’t deny it’s mostly Xehanort story but also Ventus wasn’t really a pawn, you payed attention to the story? Only terra fell as a pawn, Ventus just like Aqua he did many good deeds in Disney worlds and grew in his adventure and matured the most in character among the three by the end and had the resolve to put an end to all of this, he destroyed his heart so the X blade won’t be complete making Xehanort plan fail and be delayed, only poor terra fell as a pawn and couldn’t escape his fate not even Aqua could have saved him his fate was sealed that day when he was possessed

the zombie comment I said for Aqua didn’t come from me I usually hear it from fans who find Aqua’s personality to be boring I always referred to Aqua as just bland, just a pancake nailed what I’m trying to say

Nice try at a veiled insult hurled at Kairi, while also digging away at Aqua. KH2 Kairi was only "bland" because the series was still trying to keep its logic together at that point. Kairi was trapped on Destiny Islands, what else could she do? Maybe if she were introduced around BbS, she could have gotten magical armour that let her ride her keyblade through space and come across as much cooler?

I'm sure there's lots of fans out there that think other characters are boring, that's subjective. If you think Aqua is boring, that's fine. I always found her very interesting and the most interesting out of the three characters in BbS, with Ven in last place.

Ven definitely did not pull me into BbS. The fact that it was KINGDOM HEARTS: Birth By Sleep is what pulled me in. The fact that it explained the secret ending of KH2 is what pulled me in. I was actually furious with Ven when I found out that he wasn't Roxas, because Roxas is perf and here's this photocopy getting a full game. Because of that, I actually played with Ven last when I first played BbS.

How was it inevitable that the time travel in DDD would cause Ven to be from the ancient past? The Foretellers and the ancient past people are using "world lines" and not the time travel that Master Xehanort/Sora used. Also, why would time travel or world lines cause Ven - of all people - to be from the ancient past? Why couldn't Nomura give him something fresh or unique? He's forced into an "important role" now just because he's in KHUX, but that doesn't instantly make him interesting. It actually messes up his character even more - there's Ven in KHUX and current day Ven, making him completely inconsistent. At least Kairi's consistently "bland" (as you so graciously call her).

 

[Foxycian]

Nice try at a veiled insult hurled at Kairi, while also digging away at Aqua. KH2 Kairi was only "bland" because the series was still trying to keep its logic together at that point. Kairi was trapped on Destiny Islands, what else could she do? Maybe if she were introduced around BbS, she could have gotten magical armour that let her ride her keyblade through space and come across as much cooler?

because she is? I love Aqua (not her white knight bias fans tho and ofc not all her fans are white knights) but that doesn’t mean I have to pretend her character is good, she was really bland until 0.2 happened

I'm sure there's lots of fans out there that think other characters are boring, that's subjective. If you think Aqua is boring, that's fine. I always found her very interesting and the most interesting out of the three characters in BbS, with Ven in last place.

Well yea I do find her bland sometimes, 0.2 did make me like her a lot but when I compare her with The others I still think she comes off as bland, and it’s fine you don’t like Ventus we all have our opinions

Ven definitely did not pull me into BbS. The fact that it was KINGDOM HEARTS: Birth By Sleep is what pulled me in. The fact that it explained the secret ending of KH2 is what pulled me in. I was actually furious with Ven when I found out that he wasn't Roxas, because Roxas is perf and here's this photocopy getting a full game. Because of that, I actually played with Ven last when I first played BbS.

well I certainly didn’t say Ventus was the one who pulled you in, also Again you seem to have this hate for Ventus which I don’t mind since again we all have opinions but that doesn’t change the fact Ven has more personality going for him compared to Aqua

How was it inevitable that the time travel in DDD would cause Ven to be from the ancient past? The Foretellers and the ancient past people are using "world lines" and not the time travel that Master Xehanort/Sora used. Also, why would time travel or world lines cause Ven - of all people - to be from the ancient past? Why couldn't Nomura give him something fresh or unique? He's forced into an "important role" now just because he's in KHUX, but that doesn't instantly make him interesting. It actually messes up his character even more - there's Ven in KHUX and current day Ven, making him completely inconsistent. At least Kairi's consistently "bland" (as you so graciously call her).

Well it was inevitable and by that I mean something is bound to go wrong and people won’t agree with it, as much as I love Ventus I wish these time travel stuff didn’t happen and I wish he was just from the time of birth by sleep, if Nomura desperately wanted to give him a back story then he had a subplot with Xehanort being his apprentice in the past, I’m with you in this matter I forced myself to warm into this Union X story and didn’t even like that characters like Marluxia and laraxene are from the past but again all we can do is just accept it cause we can’t do anything.

 

[Face My Fears]

because she is? I love Aqua (not her white knight bias fans tho and ofc not all her fans are white knights) but that doesn’t mean I have to pretend her character is good, she was really bland until 0.2 happened


Well yea I do find her bland sometimes, 0.2 did make me like her a lot but when I compare her with The others I still think she comes off as bland, and it’s fine you don’t like Ventus we all have our opinions


well I certainly didn’t say Ventus was the one who pulled you in, also Again you seem to have this hate for Ventus which I don’t mind since again we all have opinions but that doesn’t change the fact Ven has more personality going for him compared to Aqua


Well it was inevitable and by that I mean something is bound to go wrong and people won’t agree with it, as much as I love Ventus I wish these time travel stuff didn’t happen and I wish he was just from the time of birth by sleep, if Nomura desperately wanted to give him a back story then he had a subplot with Xehanort being his apprentice in the past, I’m with you in this matter I forced myself to warm into this Union X story and didn’t even like that characters like Marluxia and laraxene are from the past but again all we can do is just accept it cause we can’t do anything.

I don't hate Ven. You're the one that hates Kairi and Aqua for being "bland".

I initially didn't like Ven when I saw what he looked like in BbS because he was a cheap knockoff of perfection IE Roxas. However, I liked his story in BbS and his role in the Xehanort Saga. With his role completed, he was basically at the top of my list of characters retire. Not because I hate him, but because his story was completed and he seemed like the more problematic character to move forward with - if Nomura was so inclined. I say problematic because: 1) he was a being of pure light which could possibly open up some plot issues in the future, 2) he didn't have much character development besides sleeping in a chair for 15 years, and 3) he looks and acts exactly like Sora/Roxas. Ven only works when Sora/Roxas aren't around, so he was good in BbS. Which is why I think Nomura forced him to be from the past - making him important, when he really didn't have anything going for him. I will say that if Nomura chooses to off Roxas in favour of Ven, then I will be really pissed.

 

[Foxycian]

I don't hate Ven. You're the one that hates Kairi and Aqua for being "bland".

I don’t hate Aqua or Kairi, I said many times in my old post of “why Aqua is my least favorite” that I don’t hate her, and I also said that I don’t like her fans for overhyping her making her seem like birth by sleep was her game when it was all the three protagonists and mostly it was story of master Xehanort as you said, and among the three heroes it was mostly terra and to little extent Ven story, then lastly it was Aqua as the third one, they are all protagonists but aqua white knights only care about their waifu, I don’t hate aqua I love her but I don’t like her fans, as for Kairi I adore her I’m happy she got MoM, look at my older reply I said I agree with you that Kairi does have her own story besides just wanting to be with Sora, Kairi is part of my childhood I can never hate her I won’t deny I was disappointed in her many times but never said I dislike this character and think she is the worst or that kind of talk, I prefer Kairi more then Xion and Namine which ironically Xion have more personality then Kairi yet still I prefer Kairi cause I have faith she will shine

I initially didn't like Ven when I saw what he looked like in BbS because he was a cheap knockoff of perfection IE Roxas.

Sora and Roxas literally have the same face models, only kh3 changed that a bit by giving Ventus/Roxas thinner chin instead of round face like Sora, roxas (just like Ven) borrowed things from Sora as well

However, I liked his story in BbS and his role in the Xehanort Saga. With his role completed, he was basically at the top of my list of characters retire. Not because I hate him, but because his story was completed and he seemed like the more problematic character to move forward with - if Nomura was so inclined. I say problematic because: 1) he was a being of pure light which could possibly open up some plot issues in the future, 2) he didn't have much character development besides sleeping in a chair for 15 years, and 3) he looks and acts exactly like Sora/Roxas. Ven only works when Sora/Roxas aren't around, so he was good in BbS. Which is why I think Nomura forced him to be from the past - making him important, when he really didn't have anything going for him. I will say that if Nomura chooses to off Roxas in favour of Ven, then I will be really pissed.

Well again I’m with you on this i didn’t like the time travel stuff and really forced myself to warm into it but can’t really say anything beyond “welp gotta accept it If I want to keep following the franchise” cause I love this series.

 

[Face My Fears]

I don’t hate Aqua or Kairi, I said many times in my old post of “why Aqua is my least favorite” that I don’t hate her, and I also said that I don’t like her fans for overhyping her making her seem like birth by sleep was her game when it was all the three protagonists and mostly it was story of master Xehanort as you said, and among the three heroes it was mostly terra and to little extent Ven story, then lastly it was Aqua as the third one, they are all protagonists but aqua white knights only care about their waifu, I don’t hate aqua I love her but I don’t like her fans, as for Kairi I adore her I’m happy she got MoM, look at my older reply I said I agree with you that Kairi does have her own story besides just wanting to be with Sora, Kairi is part of my childhood I can never hate her I won’t deny I was disappointed in her many times but never said I dislike this character and think she is the worst or that kind of talk, I prefer Kairi more then Xion and Namine which ironically Xion have more personality then Kairi yet still I prefer Kairi cause I have faith she will shine


Sora and Roxas literally have the same face models, only kh3 changed that a bit by giving Ventus/Roxas thinner chin instead of round face like Sora, roxas (just like Ven) borrowed things from Sora as well



Well again I’m with you on this i didn’t like the time travel stuff and really forced myself to warm into it but can’t really saying anything beyond “welp gotta accept it If I want to keep following the franchise” cause I love this series

I don't think you can dismiss all Aqua fans as crazy or only caring for their "waifu". There's obviously a reason that Aqua got her own game over other characters at that time (Kairi included).

It doesn't really matter to me if Sora/Roxas/Ven have the same face models or whatever. A lot of people believe that Nomura is going to be trimming the fat for Phase 2, and Ven is secure due to his ancient past retcon. I will be upset if Ven is kept on, while Roxas (and Xion) are written off as I think they are way more developed and deserving of more stories than Ven. Due to Roxas/Ven looking exactly the same, I don't think Nomura would want to keep those two around due to confusion... and there's no excuses of being asleep in Castle Oblivion or being trapped inside Sora to keep them apart.

 

[Foxycian]

I don't think you can dismiss all Aqua fans as crazy or only caring for their "waifu".

Well that’s why I keep saying “I know not all her fans are white knights” I’m aware of that I wrote them so you and everyone could see them not to misunderstood me or anything

There's obviously a reason that Aqua got her own game over other characters at that time (Kairi included).

She got her game cause she is more popular, and the only one standing to have her own game, 0.2 served not that big of a purpose, it is tied with Re:Coded as least relevant, Re:Coded did give us data and 0.2 did give us the story of how Mickey got the kingdom key D (and unfortunately lessens blank points) but honestly just like Ventus story in “Union X” Aqua story was just forced into the plot cause they want to give Aqua more screen time the whole 0.2 game felt like it’s retcon to bbs ending and Kh1, even Nomura was shocked of how popular aqua got back then cause he know this character is just new and was added into the story with no connection to the previous plot

It doesn't really matter to me if Sora/Roxas/Ven have the same face models or whatever. A lot of people believe that Nomura is going to be trimming the fat for Phase 2, and Ven is secure due to his ancient past retcon. I will be upset if Ven is kept on, while Roxas (and Xion) are written off as I think they are way more developed and deserving of more stories than Ven. Due to Roxas/Ven looking exactly the same, I don't think Nomura would want to keep those two around due to confusion... and there's no excuses of being asleep in Castle Oblivion or being trapped inside Sora to keep them apart.

Tbh many people didn’t like Roxas and Xion returning and only saw them as fan service to please the fans with their return, I actually liked that they returned, they can easily make Roxas and Ventus look different with either hair cut or difference in age and many other stuff they don’t really need to get rid of Roxas for ven, Even Xion I like her despite many fans think she shouldn’t exist when imo she deserves to exist, I don’t think Roxas will be replaced since he is from this Era and already became his own person.

 

[Face My Fears]

Well that’s why I keep saying “I know not all her fans are white knights” I’m aware of that I wrote them so you and everyone could see them not to misunderstood me or anything



She got her game cause she is more popular, and the only one standing to have her own game, 0.2 served not that big of a purpose, it is tied with Re:Coded as least relevant, Re:Coded did give us data and 0.2 did give us the story of how Mickey got the kingdom key D (and unfortunately lessens blank points) but honestly just like Ventus story in “Union X” Aqua story was just forced into the plot cause they want to give Aqua more screen time the whole 0.2 game felt like it’s retcon to bbs ending and Kh1, even Nomura was shocked of how popular aqua got back then cause he know this character is just new and was added into the story with no connection to the previous plot



Tbh many people didn’t like Roxas and Xion returning and only saw them as fan service to please the fans with their return, I actually liked that they returned, they can easily make Roxas and Ventus look different with either hair cut or difference in age and many other stuff they don’t really need to get rid of Roxas for ven, Even Xion I like her despite many fans think she shouldn’t exist when imo she deserves to exist, I don’t think Roxas will be replaced since he is from this Era and already became his own person.

I was also against Roxas and Xion returning because I liked that their roles were complete, albeit sad endings. But since Nomura decided to have a huge celebration of everyone coming back, except for Sora, I want more for them. Don't bring them back and then just forget about them. A big part of their characters is wanting to live a normal life - don't give it to them and never show us, because we were all there rooting for them to get their own lives.

To me it's either don't bring back Roxas/Xion and let their stories end there (my preferred outcome) or bring them back and show them as real people, and not eternally sad/suffering (which I don't think Nomura will do, as Xion is highly suspected to be number one on the chopping block).