Auzibillahi minashaytanirajeem, Bismillahirahmaniraheem.
The word Trinity itself is not in the bible but the word Trinity simply refers to what the bible speaks of as Father, son (Sometimes called the word), and the holy spirit. Three in one, one in three thus a Trinity.
Like has been said before. Water can be a solid, a liquid, or a gas. 3 different forms yet they are all still one thing, water. God takes 3 different forms, though of course his forms are more complex then water's forms, but all the forms are still one thing, God. This does not take away from the idea of One God.
I’m aware of this verse you quote,
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
[1st Epistle of John Chapter 5: Verse 7]
Firstly, I don’t know if you are aware, but this verse, along with a few others, was removed from the bible in the future versions, such as the Revised Standard Version, New American Version and I think the Millennium version too. In the preface of the revised standard version, revised by 32 Christian Scholars and backed by 50 Christian denominations, professed that this verse, again along with others, was not found in the most ancient manuscripts that dated 200-300 years after Jesus (PBUH) time. Whilst the KJV Version which had this verse was from manuscripts dated 500-600 years after Jesus (PBUH) time. So they removed this verse as it was a fabrication. The KJV is yet the most popular read bible even though the scholars have agreed that it carries many defects. For more information you can read the preface yourself here.
Preface to the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (1971)
Regardless of this fact, this verse in no way professes the Trinitarian point of the three beings equal in Godship or divinity. It says one. One in what? If we agree, for the sake of argument, that it was not a fabrication, added by someone, and it was the word of God or Jesus, then what is this meaning of one? Let’s have a look at what Jesus says.
One of the most popular verses you will hear that is used as proof of Jesus (PBUH) saying this one refers to divinity is this,
“I and My Father are one”. Let’s do the simplest thing and read the whole thing in its context in Gospel of John Chapter 10, for in the context you get the answer.
“And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.”
[John Chapter 10: Verses 23-30]
Can we see it now? What this one means? It can’t mean divinity because he clearly also says in that context, that My Father is Greater than all. What does all mean in our language of English? It means aaaalll, including him. These verses are indicating that Jesus (P.B.U.H) and God are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. They are one in
purpose. The followers of Jesus (P.B.U.H) cannot be led astray as long as they are following the teaching of Jesus (P.B.U.H) which are the teachings given to him by God. And those who are guided by God cannot be led astray. It does not at all state that Jesus (P.B.U.H) is God's equal in everything. In fact the verse reading
“My Father, who gave them me is Greater than all," completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction. The teachings of Jesus (PBUH) came from God and they are one in this, the same as Moses (PBUH) people could not be plucked out of his hand and the work he did was in God’s name, he and God were one. The same with Noah, Abraham e.t.c. Their sheep heard them and followed them and were given eternal life, as they followed the teachings of God.
But again, for the sake of argument let’s say he meant in divinity and this one doesn’t mean purpose. But if we read on from Verse 30 it says:
“Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”
[John Chapter 10: Verses 31-36]
Again Jesus (P.B.U.H) says he has shown works from his Father, from Almighty God, they are not his own, again referring back to how God is Greater than all. The Jews claim he is blaspheming, but what does he say? He tells them that he is not blaspheming when he says he is the Son of God. He
says is it not written in your law that you are gods? Here he is referring to Psalms 82:6 where it says:
“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”
[Psalms Chapter 82: Verse 6]
Here he is trying to explain that do not take it as the literal meaning, that I am the Son of God, as you do not take the literal meaning of you Jews being gods and children of the most High. When it is said son of god, it is not indicating a trinity; it is clear reference to the biblical language of how god believing people, pious people, are the sons of God. How many prophets and men are referred to as the sons of god in the Bible? There is Adam [Luke Chapter 3: Verse 38], Israel as a firstborn, Ephraim as a first born [Jeremiah Chapter 31: Verse 9], even David is referred to as the begotten son of God [Psalms Chapter 2: Verse 7]. So if you take the term Son of God as a literal meaning, then clearly you don’t have a trinity as God has many Sons who would also be a part of Him. But this of course is not the case, it is absurd as the bible and Jesus (PBUH) on countless occasions say God is One.
For further proof that this One is referring to one in purpose is again made clear by Jesus (PBUH) himself.
"That the all may be made one. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be one in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in one".
[John Chapter 17: Verses 20-22]
In this verse, Jesus (P.B.U.H) is talking to his disciples. He is telling them that they are all one in the same. Just as the Lord is in him, so is he in each of them. If this verse is also taken as a literal meaning, same as for John 10:30, then it is claiming that a person must believe in 14 gods, as God is in Jesus and he is in his disciple’s. But of course that is not the case. Jesus (P.B.U.H) is clearly informing that he and his disciples are all
one in purpose, just as he is ‘
one in purpose’ with God, to bring the people into following the straight path. I’m sure I’ve emphasised this enough now...
The idea of God having 3 different forms is stated even in the book of Genesis where God says, "Let us make man in OUR image"
If water can take on 3 different forms and still be water then why can God not take on 3 different forms and still be God? Solid, Liquid, Gas, no matter what form it takes it is still one substances, water. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, no matter what form it takes it is still one being, God. To say that one substances such as water can be 3 different states but that God cannot be 3 different states is therefore saying that water is greater than God or that God is not almighty. For how can God be almighty if he cannot even do as the water does and have 3 different states but yet still be one? How can God be almight if he cannot even do what water can do? In other words the Trinity only further serves to glorify the power and majesty of God.
Besides God came into human form in order to become a perfect sacrifice which was the only way to pay for our debt owed to sin.
Why does God need to be three different states? His power is not comparable; He is not like anything we can imagine. The Qur’an makes it clear that there is nothing like unto Him. If there was something like Him or comparable to Him, then He ceases to be God. What you say if he can’t do what water can do then He can’t be God doesn’t mean there has to be a Trinity. Of course can do what He wills, but I ask why would God need to come down to this earth as a human and offer himself as a sacrifice for your sins? It is such an illogical absurd thing to utter. Please my brother listen to yourself. In Islam it makes it clear, God created us. For a surety God knows His creation. He knows exactly how this creation works and in no way needs to come down in a form of His own creation to teach them or show them anything let alone offer himself and be killed. He chooses man amongst men to guide their sheep to Him. He provides with the chosen ones instructions for His creation to follow which benefits them and the society. If it does not benefit this world and His creation and prove to us His existence and the fact He created us and knows His creation, then that instruction manual is useless. You understand what I’m saying?
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If I remember my research of islamic beliefs, Muslims do not even believe in original sin. If that is so then how is it that humans die? For if there was no original sin then humans would have perfect bodies and thus would not die. For the wages of sin is death. To say we have no original sin and yet it is obvious people die, such a belief makes little sense.
No disrespect brother but this notion of original sin is a problem in Christianity as I will highlight. In Islam it is clear. No man inherits the sin of another. To each is his own deed, be it good or be it bad, and it is for his own deeds he shall be judged upon. Is that not the most logical thing? The notion of Original sin in Christianity is that we have inherited the sin of Adam and Eve. They ate from the fruit disobeying God’s orders and now we inherit that sin and under the curse. Right? There is a verse in the Bible that completely negates this and highlights to you the truth and the most logical explanation of how sin works, just as I pointed out briefly the Islamic viewpoint.
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.”
[Ezekial: Chapter 18 Verse 20:22]
This my brother is what Islam teaches. You are accountable for your actions as well as intentions. Repentness of your sins is what will save you and abstaining from them, the same as the verse 21 says “But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.” Not that he needs to believe in God dying for his sins and then his saved. No, it says that repenting from sins saves you. This is the same in Islam. I’ll answer this in the next question below but what I’m trying to show here is that the original sin concept is clearly not evident in this. Clearly it says the son does not bear the iniquity of the father, so we do not bear the sin and mistake our father Adam (PBUH) did. Besides, God forgave him for that and will not hold it against him. So why would He hold it against us when we didn’t do it nor influenced him to do it? It says we shall bear our own deeds and be judged upon that.
Due to this, Muslims must not believe in any repentance for sin. So if this is the case then God must accept our sin, and therefore excepts sin. This would make God imperfect as he would be defying his own laws. If this is the case then all people must go to heaven and therefore the whole point of being a muslim or any other member of a religion crumbles, as there would be no point in living a certain way then.
Muslims don’t believe in any repentance? My brother, on the contrary, Allah teaches in the Qur’an, as well as the Prophet (PBUH) from Sahih Hadiith, many ways to repent and Muslims repent many times in a days. One form is that of Salah, the Muslims prayer. Praying to Allah minimum five times a day is a form of repentance as during the Salah, the Muslims ask for forgiveness. There are many more I can tell you about. The word Muslims means to submit to God, to obey God, following His laws, and worshipping none but He who is the only one worthy of that worship, repeat He who is the only one
worthy of worship. Only this makes a person Muslim, not being from a certain background, or race, or having an Arabic name or whatever. Therefore sinning and disobeying God continuously and knowingly defies the meaning of Muslim. But that doesn’t mean to say if you sin you’re not a Muslim, we are not perfect and are prone to committing these, its the way God made us, and this is why he accepts repentance and forgives.
In the ends this leaves muslims to find themselves with a case that has no answer and no solution. As they have no answer to sin. Therefore because of the above, the Quran cannot possibly be the true word of God.
The answer to sin is evident my brother in the Qur’an and in the example of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The Muslims very
way of life is the answer. Every teaching and method and action he is told to perform is the very solution to him having peace in himself as well peace in the society and world. Just observe the five pillars of Islam. If that does not instil peace, love, justice, morality, equality to this world then Islam is not a religion of God. These five pillars themselves prove to us that this way of life has to be from God as its very essence, teaching and implementation does nothing but benefit the person and the world. I would go into more detail about each of the five pillars but it would be an immensley long post as this is a huge topic in itself. I might actually post it as a thread if you want to learn more about this brother.
The bible however offers an answer, by a perfect being which was God in human form Jesus Christ sacrificing himself for our sins, this pays for our sins. Belief in him and acceptance of his sacrifices thus leads to being free of sin and thus enternal life in the next world. Such an explanation is simple and easy to understand and very logical in my opinion.
Thus the Trinity is a foundation planted in the bible from the very begining to the very end and the one true God is always implied to be a Trinity starting in it's first book Genesis. Therefore the bible does not contradict itself with the message of one God and the Trinity of God.
Brother, the bible does indeed offer some answers (not complete) but it is not what you are highlightin, as again I keep saying, this is not what Jesus (PBUH) said, and are not his words far greater than that of John? Mark? Matthew? Luke? Paul? and every other writer and unknown writer of the Bible? You know of the red letter bible I'm sure , these teachings you are hihglighting were not Jesus (PBUH)’s words. This is the Paulean view, it was St Paul who said to believe Jesus died for your sins and he who shall believe in that is saved, it was St Paul who said that the commandments are to be nailed to the cross as in they need not be upheld anymore. But Jesus (PBUH) said the complete opposite. He said to keep the commandments and follow the most important one, that being that our lord God is one Lord!
It is not logical my brother to believe God created us, allowed us to inherit this original sin, then allow us to live in this sin until we believe that He himself came down and was sacrificed to remove this sin to which he allowed for us to inherit in the first place! Please my brother, contemplate and use your intelligence.
Forgive me if hurt anyones feelings, or offended anyone. That is not my intention and I apologise. It is jst to make these points clear and make us all understand better, including myself, to what is the true message. May Allah guide us all InshaAllah.
