Plot hole?

[Igloo9]

Me and my friend were talking about this, and now I'm confused.

So, yeah, Roxas isn't a nobody after all. He is basically Ven reborn. Etc. So, if that's true, then how could he re-combine with Sora in KH2? He's complete, not a nobody. Is it even possible?

 

[Ven-Dono]

Me and my friend were talking about this, and now I'm confused.

So, yeah, Roxas isn't a nobody after all. He is basically Ven reborn. Etc. So, if that's true, then how could he re-combine with Sora in KH2? He's complete, not a nobody. Is it even possible?

Well from the recently surfaced MX letters, we learn (even though it isn't confirmed they are the real deal) that Keybladers can remove their hearts and put them into other bodies or something bizarre like that. That's my explanation.

Edit: Which is weird, because technically, if that ^ was true, shouldn't Roxas have made a Nobody?

 

[loke13]

Me and my friend were talking about this, and now I'm confused.

So, yeah, Roxas isn't a nobody after all. He is basically Ven reborn. Etc. So, if that's true, then how could he re-combine with Sora in KH2? He's complete, not a nobody. Is it even possible?

Ven heart but Sora's body.

 

[trixchasin]

yah the "ven" that joined sora was just his heart. ven's body is sleeping in castle oblivion until it's woken up. so roxas really was sora's nobody, he probably just looked like ven because of ven's heart's presence in him.

 

[Igloo9]

yah the "ven" that joined sora was just his heart. ven's body is sleeping in castle oblivion until it's woken up. so roxas really was sora's nobody, he probably just looked like ven because of ven's heart's presence in him.

That didn't make sense. Ven's "body" is sleeping in Castle Oblivion. His "heart" was in Sora, and created Roxas. So, Roxas must have a heart (Ven's heart) meaning he is not a nobody. Now, I'm wondering, how could someone (Roxas) who has a heart, rejoin with someone else? (Sora)

 

[loke13]

That didn't make sense. Ven's "body" is sleeping in Castle Oblivion. His "heart" was in Sora, and created Roxas. So, Roxas must have a heart (Ven's heart) meaning he is not a nobody. Now, I'm wondering, how could someone (Roxas) who has a heart, rejoin with someone else? (Sora)

Ummmm just think of him as a special nobody that how I get through it.

 

[Igloo9]

*Sigh* If that's the case... If he is a "special" nobody, then I will start to dislike the KH series. There are all of these rules like "This or that can't happen" But then it does happen because, oh, he's a special one.

 

[Ven-Dono]

That didn't make sense. Ven's "body" is sleeping in Castle Oblivion. His "heart" was in Sora, and created Roxas. So, Roxas must have a heart (Ven's heart) meaning he is not a nobody. Now, I'm wondering, how could someone (Roxas) who has a heart, rejoin with someone else? (Sora)

He's a Keyblader, as I said in my earlier post. >.>

 

[KHFanatic4565]

There have to be exceptions for rules to make sense. As we know from MX possessing Terra's body, the body will change to reflect this. Ven's heart was still asleep, so Roxas isn't Ven, but he could still feel because Sora and Ven's hearts are linked. It's why Roxas had 'Sora' moments.

 

[Igloo9]

There have to be exceptions for rules to make sense. As we know from MX possessing Terra's body, the body will change to reflect this. Ven's heart was still asleep, so Roxas isn't Ven, but he could still feel because Sora and Ven's hearts are linked. It's why Roxas had 'Sora' moments.

It still doesn't make sense. Alright, so Ven's heart is still asleep. Roxas isn't Ven, so Roxas actually is a nobody. If Roxas is a nobody, how can he have feelings, such as crying in 358/2 Days? And no, it can't be because "Sora and Ven's hearts are linked." That may be true, but how could that affect Roxas? It couldn't affect him, because all he is is the body/shell (nobody) of Sora. That's it. He can't have feelings.

Somebody please explain that to me.

 

[loke13]

It still doesn't make sense. Alright, so Ven's heart is still asleep. Roxas isn't Ven, so Roxas actually is a nobody. If Roxas is a nobody, how can he have feelings, such as crying in 358/2 Days? And no, it can't be because "Sora and Ven's hearts are linked." That may be true, but how could that affect Roxas? It couldn't affect him, because all he is is the body/shell (nobody) of Sora. That's it. He can't have feelings.

Somebody please explain that to me.

YOUR PISSING ME OFF.We don't know were just as confused as you, were just coming up with the most sensible theory your destroying it bit by bit.

 

[Igloo9]

YOUR PISSING ME OFF.We don't know were just as confused as you were just coming up with the most sensible theory your destroying it bit by bit.

I'm pissing you off? For simply stating a plot hole that I've found? And if you're just as confused as me, then why even bother making up stuff? Either agree with me, or prove me wrong. Don't make up stuff and try to make it fit.

Anyway, I did some research, and I think I found the answer. Roxas really is a nobody, but he "looks" like Ven because Ven's heart was also inside Sora, so I guess it decided to take Ven's appearance. Although, it still doesn't explain why Roxas has feelings.

 

[Ven-Dono]

It still doesn't make sense. Alright, so Ven's heart is still asleep. Roxas isn't Ven, so Roxas actually is a nobody. If Roxas is a nobody, how can he have feelings, such as crying in 358/2 Days? And no, it can't be because "Sora and Ven's hearts are linked." That may be true, but how could that affect Roxas? It couldn't affect him, because all he is is the body/shell (nobody) of Sora. That's it. He can't have feelings.

Somebody please explain that to me.

Most people believe Ven's heart escaped inside Roxas, looking for a vessel. Sora, releasing his heart, must have awoken Ven from his sleep or something. Anyway, we'll all learn after playing BbS says Nomura. But I can't even say that for sure, because Coded ruined my respect for what Nomura says in interviews.

 

[KHFanatic4565]

It still doesn't make sense. Alright, so Ven's heart is still asleep. Roxas isn't Ven, so Roxas actually is a nobody. If Roxas is a nobody, how can he have feelings, such as crying in 358/2 Days? And no, it can't be because "Sora and Ven's hearts are linked." That may be true, but how could that affect Roxas? It couldn't affect him, because all he is is the body/shell (nobody) of Sora. That's it. He can't have feelings.

Somebody please explain that to me.

Listen closely and try to think instead of dismissing it out of hand.

Ven's heart was linked with Sora's. When his heart left, Ven's heart was likely left behind. That is why Roxas looks like Ven. He's not Ven because Ven's heart is asleep. Roxas began showing more emotion after Sora went to sleep. We can assume Ven and Sora reconnected then. This would allow Ven's heart to become more active within Roxas.

In short, Roxas has a heart, but it's not Sora's.

 

[Kentsu13]

roxas is like vens heart but w/ soras body so technically he's a human but w/ some1 elses body and heart lol

 

[Kyonne]

It doesn't matter if Roxas have a heart or not, Roxas was Sora's body and Sora needed it, Sora keeped his body because he stayed as a heartless for a short time, therefore if Sora still have part of his body then Sora's body isn't totally with Roxas, so yeah, Roxas isn't even close to be a whole being

 

[Key to Truth]

Ven is sleeping, when Roxas was created he got Ven's heart wich makes him a complete nobody but he DOESN'T know that he has a heart, and when he rejoined Sora, we didn't see HOW he did it, he could have probably use the keyblade to return to his original body, also, i think it was stated somewhere that if the original being and the nobody met, the nobody would return to the original being, so there's no plot hole, just unexplained stuff.

 

[Mister E]

Actually, this kind of does explain how Roxas is apparently able to feel emotion. Potentially, when he was formed, either a part/the entirety of Ven's heart (minus his memories) is transferred over with him. I'd be tempted to say that he's a Nobody of Sora with Ven's heart, but then that doesn't really explain why he looks like Ven. Unless of course that just a physical body is required to make a Nobody, and the appearance depends on the heart.

We could look at it another way; rather than Ven's heart being a singular thing in Sora's body, it's become more of a "part" of Sora, ie. integrated into his being. If that's the case, it would sort of explain both why Roxas looks like Ven (because Ven is a part of Sora, rather than separate), and that along with the physicality of Ven, some of his heart is transferred over too.

In short, Sora's Nobody, whilst theoretically being entirely a part of himself, is the embodiment of another (technically still existing) person, heart (or vestige of) and all.

God damn, Nomura.

EDIT: Just realised that Days is actually a bit more relevant to BbS than first impressions would suggest, if the above happens to be the case. I wonder if the mentions that Roxas was "special" were subliminal hints.

 

[Zero Sora]

What the hell is wrong with you all? Roxas is a Nobody, he is special in the sense that he looks nothing like his Somebody. Is born from multiple people, and is able to feel emotions. He doesn't actually have a heart. Its his connection with Sora that allows him to feel, you know, since Sora is still around and not a Heartless.

Think of it like this, twins have a speical connection, an invisible bond that allows them to share feelings. This is because they are pretty much one person split in two. Like Sora and Roxas. Roxas can feel because Sora can feel. This is made possible because Sora's heart isn't engulfed by Darkness, or completely wiped clean of everything. IE what happens when a Heart becomes a Heartless (Sora: I started to forget everything, like who I was).

Anyway, Roxas looks like Ven due to the fact that Ven's Heart is within Sora. Not because Roxas has Ven's Heart. Ven's Heart is within Sora's, much like Kairi's was in KH1.

 

[Eternal_Sleep]

mmhmm its not really a plot hole, its just unexplained nomura likes us to figure these things out on our own.

the way i see it there is two possibilities.

the first one is that ven's heart stayed connected to sora's and roxas had no heart. if this was the case he may have been able to feel because unlike pretty much every other nobody(save namine and possibly xemnas) sora's heartless retained its sense of self. therefore one can surmise that a connection still exists between the two and roxas has better access to his feelings as a result of said connection.

the second one is that vens heart went into roxas when he was "born". ven's heart is still incomplete and sleeping so it would explain why roxas has emotions(As well as directly explains why he could use a keyblade) however because his heart isn't complete it would explain why his emotions are stunted. when playing days i got the feeling that yes he could feel but this largely was confusing for him because i suspect that he wasn't able to feel all of the time. that or his feelings tended to kick in a little bit slower or are just slightly out reach for the most part. to investigate im going to read through his journal again to see if i can pick up on anything.

im personally leaning towards the second of the two but i have no real evidence at the moment to really push my answer in that direction. just a hunch(which as we know can sometimes fail lol)

i hope this question is one day answered though i suspect it will, especially if roxas ends up getting saved or if the connection between ventus' and sora's heart is expanded on. i think we may already have all if not most of the pieces to this puzzle we just need to figure out the order in which they fit (if we haven't already).