Maleficient's Non-existent Nobody

[Veritas7340]

All right, making my first topic post on the forum.

So as Yen Sid says (paraphrased), 'If someone were to yield to the darkness in their heart, they would become a heartless. If they had a strong heart, the empty shell would become a nobody.'

Thanks to Riku-Ansem in KH, Maleficient did yield to the darkness when the former unlocked the latter's heart with the dark keyblade

Riku-Ansem to Maleficient: "Now, open your heart. Become darkness itself!"

So why did Maleficient not have a nobody when she was defeated by Sora?

Was she in a state of near death, or does she have one and it's simply unimportant or unrevealed?

If she never got one, why not?

 

[Ruran]

"Yielding to the darkness" can mean different things. Becoming a Heartless is just one possible route if that happens, and as such, since Maleficent never turned into a Heartless she never produced a Nobody. As Yen Sid also pointed out, you need a strong heart to produce a Nobody. The way Ansem-Riku talks about Maleficent and how the darkness used her without her realizing implies that she may not have had a particularly strong heart. Even if she turned into a Heartless, it's questionable if whether or not she would have produced a Nobody.

 

[Veritas7340]

"Yielding to the darkness" can mean different things. Becoming a Heartless is just one possible route if that happens, and as such, since Maleficent never turned into a Heartless she never produced a Nobody. As Yen Sid also pointed out, you need a strong heart to produce a Nobody. The way Ansem-Riku talks about Maleficent and how the darkness used her without her realizing implies that she may not have had a particularly strong heart. Even if she turned into a Heartless, it's questionable if whether or not she would have produced a Nobody.

I see where you are coming from, but I do have some points of discussion for this topic.

1. The Dark Keyblade turned Sora into a Heartless. Is there a reason why it wouldn't do the same to Maleficient? The darkness in her heart could've caused her heartless to manifest as her dragon form. On the other hand, I do realize that Ansem-Riku could have controlled the Dark Keyblade, making it not turn her into a heartless. Is anything like that said/confirmed in the series though?

2. Granted it is mostly opinion, but Maleficient does appear to have a strong heart. She led most of the KH villains on a destructive crusade decimating many worlds. One does need strength to command others.

3. Assuming (1) and (2) may be true, according to Yen Sid if these criteria were met, Maleficient would have produced a nobody.

 

[Ruran]

I see where you are coming from, but I do have some points of discussion for this topic.

1. The Dark Keyblade turned Sora into a Heartless. Is there a reason why it wouldn't do the same to Maleficient? The darkness in her heart could've caused her heartless to manifest as her dragon form. On the other hand, I do realize that Ansem-Riku could have controlled the Dark Keyblade, making it not turn her into a heartless. Is anything like that said/confirmed in the series though?

The Keyblade Ansem/Riku wielded has actually been touched very little. All we know about it is basically what the game told us: it's a Keyblade made from the hearts of the PoH and can unlock a person's darkness. It could've been Ansem/Riku willing it to work a certain way, Sora just didn't know how to use it properly so he ended up making himself a heartless, or because the Keyblade was incomplete it was unstable and had different side effects each time it was used. Personally, I think Ansem/Riku did it manually. There, Maleficent didn't fall to the darkness, her darkness was just unlocked.

2. Granted it is mostly opinion, but Maleficient does appear to have a strong heart. She led most of the KH villains on a destructive crusade decimating many worlds. One does need strength to command others.

A strong heart doesn't necessarily mean a strong will, persona, or what have you. Maleficent is an intimidating and powerful faerie for sure, but not a sure sign of a strong heart. For example, by the time we have our first fight with Riku at Hollow Bastion he's physically at his strongest because he was borrowing the powers of darkness, but his heart was becoming weaker at the same time because of said darkness. Weak heart =/= everything else weak is all~

3. Assuming (1) and (2) may be true, according to Yen Sid if these criteria were met, Maleficient would have produced a nobody.

Yup, if those criteria were met. How strong Maleficent's heart is, is questionable, but without a doubt, she did not turn into a Heartless and so would not have a Nobody.

 

[TheSpaceMAN022]

I honestly thought that dragon was her heartless form. But i think she turned into a dragon in BBS too so maybe not.

Since we're on the topic. Does anyone know how Maleficent returned in KH2 after being defeated by sora in KH1? [h=2][/h]

 

[Ruran]

I honestly thought that dragon was her heartless form. But i think she turned into a dragon in BBS too so maybe not.

Since we're on the topic. Does anyone know how Maleficent returned in KH2 after being defeated by sora in KH1?

After her defeat in KH1 she was sent to the Realm of Darkness. When Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather remembered Maleficent, it brought her back because...wizards.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

Maleficent has the natural ability to turn into a dragon, she does so in Birth by Sleep as well as Coded but it tends to be in moments of last resort. Xehanort's Key may have allowed her the power to unleash that form while she was weakened by Sora. Maleficent can control and manipulate the Darkness, Sora's never had that ability. Besides, the goal is different because Sora's objective wasn't to unleash his Darkness but to remove Kairi's heart and his in the process.

We never see Maleficent's heart leave her body, her body changes into the dragon and then Maleficent claws her way back to the realm of light a year later. All that we learn about Maleficent after the incident is that she ends up in the Realm of Darkness and can't leave of her own free will without some outside help. And she does so, but only after casting some sort of spell with her last bit of power.

Personally? Despite the power she has over darkness, I don't think Maleficent's heart would have been strong enough to create a Nobody.

 

[Veritas7340]

The Keyblade Ansem/Riku wielded has actually been touched very little. All we know about it is basically what the game told us: it's a Keyblade made from the hearts of the PoH and can unlock a person's darkness. It could've been Ansem/Riku willing it to work a certain way, Sora just didn't know how to use it properly so he ended up making himself a heartless, or because the Keyblade was incomplete it was unstable and had different side effects each time it was used. Personally, I think Ansem/Riku did it manually. There, Maleficent didn't fall to the darkness, her darkness was just unlocked.



A strong heart doesn't necessarily mean a strong will, persona, or what have you. Maleficent is an intimidating and powerful faerie for sure, but not a sure sign of a strong heart. For example, by the time we have our first fight with Riku at Hollow Bastion he's physically at his strongest because he was borrowing the powers of darkness, but his heart was becoming weaker at the same time because of said darkness. Weak heart =/= everything else weak is all~



Yup, if those criteria were met. How strong Maleficent's heart is, is questionable, but without a doubt, she did not turn into a Heartless and so would not have a Nobody.

Nothing I can say against that; I agree with your theory of Ansem-Riku's manually controlling the Dark Keyblade. I just assumed, like TheSpaceMAN022, that the Dragon form was her heartless form because of what had happened to Sora. Since no one ever mentions Maleficient having had become a heartless, I think it's right; Good discussion

 

[Gram]

Nothing I can say against that; I agree with your theory of Ansem-Riku's manually controlling the Dark Keyblade. I just assumed, like TheSpaceMAN022, that the Dragon form was her heartless form because of what had happened to Sora. Since no one ever mentions Maleficient having had become a heartless, I think it's right; Good discussion

Many got a similar impression till we seen her dragon form in bbs.

The Keyblade Ansem/Riku wielded has actually been touched very little.

This^ Though we do know that it falls into very rare "Keyblades of heart" family that are listed in DDD's glossary.

Another name for the princesses of heart: the only seven people in the world whose hearts are pure light.

While not necessarily royalty, they are called "princesses" because they are all female and the one who brings them together will reign over all worlds.

The nature of the princesses' power is not entirely clear, but once already their hearts have been stolen to create an entrance to Kingdom Hearts and a so-called "Keyblade of heart."

 

[Nayru's Love]

When Riku-Ansem used the KoPH on Maleficent, it wasn't even complete. So, she may have almost completely opened up her heart to darkness, but not completely. With Sora, it can be argued that the KoPH was complete, if only for a split-second, because it resulted in the completion of HB's keyhole and the opening of the DtD. So, Sora would get the keyblade's full effect.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

When Riku-Ansem used the KoPH on Maleficent, it wasn't even complete. So, she may have almost completely opened up her heart to darkness, but not completely. With Sora, it can be argued that the KoPH was complete, if only for a split-second, because it resulted in the completion of HB's keyhole and the opening of the DtD. So, Sora would get the keyblade's full effect.

That is an aspect that gets often overlooked.

Since Kairi's heart was located inside Sora, the moment the blade pierced Sora's chest it was completed for an instant, so it's effects on him can differ compared to the ones when used on Maleficent.

 

[Big Mad Draco]

After her defeat in KH1 she was sent to the Realm of Darkness. When Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather remembered Maleficent, it brought her back because...wizards.

It's a fairy thing, believing in fairies makes them stronger and enough disbelief can kill them (notably saying I don't believe in fairies to Tinkerbell will kill her, but clapping can bring her back to life). By remembering her they acknowledge her existence, bringing her back.

 

[Gram]

^ I could see that holding some salt given she's now classified as fairy in the journals.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Maleficent was always a fairy though when it comes to her species or what she is in terms of being.
When some journals call her a sorceress it designates her profession, not her species.
For example Edea Kramer from FF VIII is also called a sorceress (cause she has sorceress powers), but otherwise she's still a human being in terms of species/being.

 

[XINekuIX]

Although she yielded to darkness, she never became a heartless, same reason as to why Riku doesn't have a nobody.