Kingdom Hearts on Wii U?

[Evello]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

You don't have to be a whiny toddler who infinitely regrets their horrible choice of buying the Wii U to want a game from another system. I'm sure everyone here has seen a game on another system before and has wanted it on their system.

I have a Wii U. Frankly, I like it a lot so far. I'm happy I bought it. But yes, I would very much like KH3. I can't afford another next-gen system, and in the decision between 1 KH game and all the Nintendo series I like, I chose Nintendo.

However, after having 4 major (financially successful) KH games on Nintendo systems it seems a little stupid to then make a main KH game for every system but Nintendo's. I assume a combination of tech issues and the Wii U's low install base are to blame, but the tech issues do not currently appear to be irreconcilable. As for the install base, that's another issue, but since the game is not coming out any time soon and since it is being built for DirectX 11, there is always a chance a Wii U version could be made later into development if/when the system sells more (as it inevitably will once games actually start arriving).

 

[Lnds500]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

Originally Posted by Lolninjacatz
I think a lot of people don't realize that Square Enix chose their development target differently this time around, focusing
on DX11 rather than towards consoles. What this means is that development doesn't have to necessarily cater to the lowest common denominator, so these claims that KH3 will be worse if it comes to the Wii U are quite untrue. Yes, the Wii U version won't be as good, but I imagine it to be more of a 1080p to 720p kind of situation, and my reasoning for that is as follows:

The problem is not that Square will build the game for the lower common denominator, the problem is they don't want to alienate the (stupid) consumer. It has been proved, time and time again that the PS4 is the most powerful console of the three.

However, there is a common practice in this industry in which they don't want to disappoint either side (PS4/Xbone). There have already been reports that while the PS4 is clearly more powerful, some developers may not use the extra horsepower, for fear of upsetting the Xbone buyers (now, I can't find the quote, but it was fairly recent - I think it was either Ubi or the Battlefield 4 devs). A similar thing happened last gen. Developers had to work around the fact that the 360 didn't have a Blu-ray drive and they had to split the game in a way that wouldn't affect the gameplay (aside from the cutscenes etc).

That's what I was talking about when I referred to the lowest common denominator, not the hardware specifically, but how the hardware will affect company policies.

What makes Kingdom Hearts unique is the artstyle of the game. Yes, you can improve the lighting, the draw distance, the texture quality, and the poly count on models for the game, but honestly, this game doesn't need to focus so much on being on the cutting edge of technical prowess, as opposed to games aiming for realism. I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, you can expect KH3 to have technical advancements, but that those advancements don't have to push so many polygons to look good, and that the texturing, lighting, and post processing effects are what are going to make this game look better.

And this is where the Wii U comes in. In terms of raw power, yes I'll concur with you that it isn't on the same level as PS4 and XOne, and more of a midway point between those and current gen. But that's fine! Since texturing depends mostly on memory, it comes to a matter of how fast you can read memory. Nintendo's edRAM is supposed to act as a cache, so despite it lacking a larger pool of RAM, with proper memory layout and management, you could get reasonable results. Draw distance is nice to have, and we do see improved draw distance in Wii U first party titles, possibly not on the level of PS4/XOne. But most of the action in KH games is up close, and most games use post processing depth of field anyways, so draw distance isn't too big a deal. The textures of the game will usually be of higher quality and downsampled anyways so they can downscale them a little more for Wii U (the Wii U seems to be more of a 720p console than a 1080p console). And like I was trying to say before, yes more poly counts is obviously better, but Kingdom Hearts is the type of game where it'll take a ridiculously larger amount of polygons to make a substantial difference, owing to the artstyle. Of course, a lot of what I say is speculation since Nintendo doesn't officially announce hardware specifications, but I think I've made reasonable assumptions and that my reasoning isn't too far fetched either.

A lot of next generation is going to be the particle effects and post processing effects. Particles in Kingdom Hearts are quite simple, and though I'm sure they'll improve the particle effects, I don't imagine anything will be taxing to the hardware. Likewise, DX11 post processing effects will be present, but not anything that is cutting edge. This is why the PS3 doesn't make sense. It's running on DX9. Now it's unclear as to whether Nintendo's library is DX10.1/DX11 equivalent, but its equivalent to one of the two. The thing is, Nintendo (as do a lot of developers) don't use DirectX at all. The DX11 specifications are what developers are mostly referring to; Nintendo uses a proprietary library called GX2. A well designed game (as most AAA titles are) should abstract the rendering process from other logic, so as long as Nintendo's GX2 API supports equivalent rendering calls, there should be not much issue aside from lower image quality.

The main reason that the game isn't coming is sales. Sure, technical differences and visionary disparity have their role, but if there is a market for the game, you bet that Square Enix would find a way for it to work, as did many publishers with the Wii.


As I've written above, in terms of raw numbers of the GPU and CPU, I agree it seems closer to current gen. But you do have to realize that the CPU is running a different architecture than PS4/XOne, and is set up differently than PS4/XOne, as with the GPU. Now this isn't going to magically put it on par with PS4/XOne, but I'd argue that it's a step up from current gen, and we can visually see that with the first party titles coming out. Not only that, but the library its using is definitely either DX10.1/DX11 equivalent, which sets it apart from previous' generations DX9.

I think you are underestimating the power of the next gen consoles or overestimating the power of the Wii U. Your assumption is based on the idea that KH 3 will not be very different graphically or won't play very differently than a 7th gen game and hence, easily downgradable.

I get your points, but I don't think Square will go down that road. Maybe they'll pull a CoD and give the game to another company to make a lousy port for the Wii U if it is successful by then, but frankly, I think that by then no one is gonna care for it.

 

[Lolninjacatz]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

The problem is not that Square will build the game for the lower common denominator, the problem is they don't want to alienate the (stupid) consumer. It has been proved, time and time again that the PS4 is the most powerful console of the three.

However, there is a common practice in this industry in which they don't want to disappoint either side (PS4/Xbone). There have already been reports that while the PS4 is clearly more powerful, some developers may not use the extra horsepower, for fear of upsetting the Xbone buyers (now, I can't find the quote, but it was fairly recent - I think it was either Ubi or the Battlefield 4 devs). A similar thing happened last gen. Developers had to work around the fact that the 360 didn't have a Blu-ray drive and they had to split the game in a way that wouldn't affect the gameplay (aside from the cutscenes etc).

That's what I was talking about when I referred to the lowest common denominator, not the hardware specifically, but how the hardware will affect company policies.

I think you're looking at this wrong. You refer to the typical consumer, but then you refer to the specs of the console as the consumer's primary decision. Nintendo does have an image problem for some of the more hardware oriented core audience, but as a typical consumer, it's the games that matter. And Kingdom Hearts does have an atmosphere that fits perfectly on Nintendo platforms. No one isn't saying the PS4 isn't the most powerful console; it's just that to a business like SquareEnix, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that they get returns from developing the game. This whole not using power thing is untrue; they'll try and make it the best for the platform as possible and under the cost and time constraints.

I think you are underestimating the power of the next gen consoles or overestimating the power of the Wii U. Your assumption is based on the idea that KH 3 will not be very different graphically or won't play very differently than a 7th gen game and hence, easily downgradable.

I get your points, but I don't think Square will go down that road. Maybe they'll pull a CoD and give the game to another company to make a lousy port for the Wii U if it is successful by then, but frankly, I think that by then no one is gonna care for it.

I think you're overestimating the gap. The major difference between the Wii and the PS3/X360 wasn't that the GPU was magnitudes weaker (not that that didn't make it worse), but the fact that they didn't support a more modern pipeline (shaders). I'd argue that a lot of developers would've put their games on the Wii even if it looked worse, because of the large install base; heck, they even redid games just for the Wii because of that. The Wii U, on the other hand, despite being factors weaker than the PS4 and Xbox One, supports the same architecture (GPGPU heavy design) and most likely the same rendering features, even though it's a little more esoteric in the design.

There's no doubt compromises will have to be made, but you have to consider that the number of pixels on the screen on a 1080p screen are 2.25x more than that of a 720p screen. If you think of it in the sense of computer games, it'd be more like low/medium vs high.

I'm not saying it'll look like a "7th gen" game. That argument is moot; if anything, the reason why the Wii U has trouble with 7th gen games is that games based on X360 and PS3 architecture, which boast a heavier focus on CPU, don't work well on the Wii U's architecture. I'd argue that since it isn't a 7th gen game, it won't be as hard to do. Game developers have to take scalability into account, especially with the emergence of so many platforms with such a wide spectrum of hardware capabilities.

Honestly, as a computer science student, I can't see why, in this case, SquareEnix would need to outsource the development. Sure, a different team could handle it, but unlike the Wii, it wasn't like they were completely redoing the game. On any of the consoles the rendering is still the same; the effort will lie in improving the game for the Wii U by a combination of compromises (things like 1080p vs 720p) and console specific optimizations (which in the Wii U's case would most likely involve primarily laying out assets in a way to manage their esoteric memory architecture).

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

If I wanted a KH game on the Wii U, I'd want it to be designed specifically for it (in particular, making use of the touchpad capabilities). Having KH3 developed as a port from the PS4/Xbone would be nothing more to me than an opportunity cost from what could've been achieved by primarily focusing on PS4/Xbone development.

 

[kupo1121]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

If I wanted a KH game on the Wii U, I'd want it to be designed specifically for it (in particular, making use of the touchpad capabilities). Having KH3 developed as a port from the PS4/Xbone would be nothing more to me than an opportunity cost from what could've been achieved by primarily focusing on PS4/Xbone development.

You raise a very good point that I have to agree with. However, from the perspective of someone who isn't getting a PS4 or XB1, I guess I could understand why they'd want KH3, port (even a shabby one) or not.

 

[13Rox]

Wouldn't it be the coolest thing if they made a version of Kingdom Hearts 3 or any of the other ones for Wii? Like you would actually get to fight and if you wanted to be Roxas or someone dual-handed you would have to connect the Wii remotes together or something. But you would actually have to fight with the Wii remote and it would kind of be like the Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword game. I think it would be a lot of fun and give a whole new perspective to the game. Anyone else agree?

 

[Launchpad]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

Wii is dead, 13Rox. No big games are released on Wii anymore. Wii U, though.. it isn't ruled out, but unlikely at this point, given KHIII's graphical detail.

 

[13Rox]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

Wii is dead, 13Rox. No big games are released on Wii anymore. Wii U, though.. it isn't ruled out, but unlikely at this point, given KHIII's graphical detail.

thats what I mean by Wii. For some reason my keyboard on my laptop is having problems. I know Wii is dead. My little brother is reading over my shoulder and said we should have a funeral for it and bury it in the backyard. thats how you know it is officially dead...because he is 5

 

[kupo1121]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

I loved the idea of being able to dual wield using the Wiimote and Nunchuk BUT I guarantee you it sounds cooler than it would work. The Wiimote, even with the Wiimote Plus just isn't precise enough to track everything the player does. Like in Zelda, it just became swinging it less than 5 ways would create about 5 or so attacks but that's about it. I do like the idea, but I know in the end I wouldn't really enjoy it all that much...

 

[13Rox]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

what about Xbox Kinnect? That way you could actually be in the game. But that would be really hard.

 

[kupo1121]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

what about Xbox Kinnect? That way you could actually be in the game. But that would be really hard.

Same problem as with the Wii, it's just not precise enough and can't pick up all the fast movements someone would do if they were literally bashing 1000 heartless to the ground One day though...one day...

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

Same problem as with the Wii, it's just not precise enough and can't pick up all the fast movements someone would do if they were literally bashing 1000 heartless to the ground One day though...one day...

It'd work with MX (or any other Xehanort) as a playable character, though. Feel like a real Xehanort and overuse hand gestures, yourself!

 

[PhantomSoD]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

Same problem as with the Wii, it's just not precise enough and can't pick up all the fast movements someone would do if they were literally bashing 1000 heartless to the ground One day though...one day...

actually, red steel 2 was pretty accurate with the motion plus movements. I think they could pull it off especially with the gamepad's geomagnetic sensor enhancing it. However, i do not think it will happen. They're not doing move support either

edit: honestly, i think nintendo home consoles(not handhelds) are just dead to the 3rd party devs. They keep insisting on shooting themselves in the foot on tech and just can't keep up with what they are doing for multiplats. If we do ever see a WiiU KH, it will have to be one of the intermediate games as an exclusive.

 

[DMoCTTA]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii?

Graphics would be quite bad...

 

[Zettaflare]

It would be nice if they brought kh3 to the Wii U, but I doubt it given the graphics of kh3

 

[Lolninjacatz]

KINGDOM HEARTS III - D23 Expo Japan 2013 Trailer - YouTube the new trailer is up, and while I do realize that it is in its early stages and there is still a lot of development time, I'd like to point that at this point it time the game still looks feasible on the Wii U, with some tradeoffs in resolution and other areas. The particles look really nice, but I don't think it's anything that would push hardware to its limits. The lights on the ship were, in my personal opinion, quite excessive. As for how it would run on the Wii U, I don't know, but I would lean towards it still being possible; it didn't seem as though they were using the lights extensively for lighting calculations (which is sensible, since having so many source lights is unnecessary and computationally expensive, even for PCs). During the fight scene with the Titan the lighting of the train on the wall was a nice detail, but we've seen that type of lighting in some Wii U games (the exploding POW blocks in the Super Mario 3D World trailer comes to mind). As for the scale of the Titan, we've seen such scale with Wonderful 101's bosses and the Bayonetta 2 Gomorrah boss fight, and the Titan itself doesn't seem to have much polygonal detail to it.

Personally, I don't totally agree with the art direction the game took; I would prefer if it kept the vivid colors of the past games. The combat didn't seem as flashy as 2 or 3D was, but I'm sure they're teasing it out bit by bit. I mean, there's still a lot of time for work to be done, so I should reserve my judgement, but those were my first impressions :biggrin:.

 

[MATGSY]

Graphics would be quite bad...

It would be nice if they brought kh3 to the Wii U, but I doubt it given the graphics of kh3

I think if the system can making Mario look soaked, it can probably handle a lot of what was shown.

 

[Lnds500]

I think if the system can making Mario look soaked, it can probably handle a lot of what was shown.

I wouldn't have known if you hadn't said it :tongue:. Yeah, KH3 looks miles better than that.

 

[kupo1121]

Re: Kingdom Hearts on Wii ?????

actually, red steel 2 was pretty accurate with the motion plus movements. I think they could pull it off especially with the gamepad's geomagnetic sensor enhancing it. However, i do not think it will happen. They're not doing move support either

While I do think Red Steel 2 was a big step up (and I mean HUGE step up), I don't think Red Steel was as fast paced as is necessary for Kingdom Hearts. If I were watching anyone with a keyblade actually try to use it like in the game, I expect a lot of random swinging all over the place in extremely rapid fashion with spinning and all that amazing looking stuff to even come close to what is seen in the game like a ninja, Red Steel's wielding was more like a samurai I felt.

 

[Xatrick]

Re: Is anyone else disappointed that kingdom hearts 3 isn't coming to Wii U?

Kingdom Hearts on the Wii-U will probably be Kingdom Hearts Xi or another game to the series maybe a remake for the DDD (doubtful)