Kingdom Hearts 2 Retrospective

[dlppictures]

Stitch can’t heal you directly like every other Summon,

I believe Stitch heals you for one HP every ten seconds, but ain't nobody got time for that.:tongue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCQe3Uqs8mg#t=6m45s see around 6:45


Also, I hate to open an older topic, but I have learned a bit more of how the Thresholder battle functions.
He is programmed to immediately return to the door when hit by an attack that brings its HP to 50% or, as I have recently learned, lower.
So if say you have used a combo on him, sans finisher, that leaves him at 51% and then you deal an attack that can take out those 51% in one hit, like Valour Form's aerial finisher, it is possible to "one-cycle" him.
The tactic seems to only be used in speedrunning by players who play on Beginner Mode, as all other difficulties would require grinding, which is obviously not the norm in speedrunning. That is also why at the time I had never seen any speedrunners do the trick, as I have mostly followed Critical Mode runs. That one is on me.:redface:

 

[Blackdrazon]

Thanks dlppictures! And wow, 51% in one hit, I can't even imagine!

 

[dlppictures]

Thanks dlppictures! And wow, 51% in one hit, I can't even imagine!

Yep, here is the first video I could find, by Zetris/Zetrile speedruning 2.5 on Beginner
Thresholder fight at 1:41:00
[video=youtube;7VjkBCvHcKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VjkBCvHcKk[/video]

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Tron and the MCP exchange a few words, the MCP tries to point out that Tron is being irrational. Tron says that “something in my code commands me to do what is right,” but he can’t tell which part of his program is urging him to do this. This is all leading up to a brief friendship speech, and I do mean brief. It’s just Sora saying: “Friends— They help each other, that’s all.” Nevertheless, I have to call bullshit at this point. Tron was built to protect the system: not only is the MCP trying to destroy the system with this self-destruct program (though that seems to have gone over the writers’ heads) but helping the users seems to be the default state of programs in the TRON world! Every line of their code should be bent to this end!

Well, ignoring Sora's friendship speech, Tron believed in the Users because it was his primary function to be the direct line of contact between the real world and the mainframe as its defender. As Tron interacted with Sora, it became less of a duty he was meant to perform and instead became something he WANTED to do. He was no longer interfacing with disembodied voices or keyboard inputs, but instead an actual User "in person" so it led to him being able to personally connect to his mission to protect the Grid and the real world.

Essentially his heart––that something in his code––is leading him. Blah Blah.

 

[Blackdrazon]

That's a nice way of putting it, I hadn't considered the developing relationship from program to enheartened being. Since that's important to DDD, I may want to edit this.

 

[GrovyleTheThief]

So the war of 1,000 Heartless is up next. Will it all be covered in one section?

---

 

[Blackdrazon]

It'll be its own section in the directory, if that's what you mean, but it won't be in one post. It's a fairly dense sequence! All the battles, Mickey's lecture, the FM+ sequences, Goofy's "death," Saix's lecture, Maleficent's rescue, Riku's clues... It takes Spazbo4 over an hour to complete it (from where I left off till the end of the gummi ship discussions) which is longer than most visits to entire worlds.

Welcome to Kingdom Hearts' notoriously backended plot structure. :S The actual ending will be even rougher. The final boss and ending sequences alone are 50 minutes long in Spazbo4's playthrough, not to forget the nearly two hours he spent in the World that Never Was prior to the final boss battle.

I wonder, retrospective-wise, how that's going to stack up against BBS' five separate endings, coded's two endings (three chapters!), and DDD's two endings?


EDIT: While I was collecting data for this post, I stumbled across the fact that Spazbo4 actually did fight the Absent Silhouettes! Now that I know where they are, I can rustle up a few screenshots of them.

 

[BlackOsprey]

I used to think of KHII's plot in terms of a football game- you had four quarters (prologue, Disney worlds, revisits, endgame), and a halftime show. And II's halftime show, the 1000 Heartless Battle, was always somehow enough to distract me from realizing just how much of a clusterdiddly this whole visit was plot-wise.

 

[Rolands]

I never really got why the whole Ansem not being Ansem thing is a bad thing. Sure, it's superflous and convoluted, but I wouldn't exactly call it terrible. What exactly makes it so destructive to the narrative? So a character gets a name change? So what?

 

[Blackdrazon]

Sorry, but I'm not sure what to say on the issue than what I already have in the post. I made my point, and if you don't agree with it then you don't agree with it.

 

[GrovyleTheThief]

That screencap is glorious.

I'm surprised you find The Thirteenth Dilemma to be your least favorite track. It's pretty epic whenever it comes up.

"Stuart seems to know Xemnas didn’t make the Chamber of Waking, but clearly understood it well enough to make the Chamber of Repose, even though he can’t find the damn thing now. I believe it – Castle Oblivion is a pissant that way."

Yeah, it's never explained how Apprentice Xehanort/Terranort (I think he was the one who built it, rather than Xemnas) made the Chamber of Repose in the image of the Chamber of Waking despite not knowing about it or Castle Oblivion, but I'm guessing it had something to do with Aqua's armor transferring subconscious memories to him or something. That could also be the reason why the Organization was able to find Castle Oblivion in the first place and use it as a base.

 

[Blackdrazon]

That's not a bad guess, I wouldn't be surprised if we learn something of the sort in KHIII.

 

[KHHacker6595]

It's so nice to see someone else have the same feelings on KH2 as me for the most part. There's so much blind nostalgia for the game on the internet that ignores all gameplay and writing flaws. So many people call it the best in the series and a top 10 PS2 game in general, and It just baffles me. I have a lot of love for the game and the recent HD re-releases have fixed some of my issues, but the older I get the more I can't help but see it as a misstep for the series.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

I do believe Xemnas' scene IS taking place during the Battle of Hallow Bastion because of its placement and that it gives explanation for why the locked door no longer is. The cutscene also just doesn't really feel flashback-y, though I can see how the following cutscene can make it look like it is.

Reeeeally wish they didn't use the dialogue from the later flashback. It wouldn't have been hard at all to simply cut out the names (andit would have kept at least some mystery like Xehanort's name) or heck, no dialogue at all. I can live with just the walking.

I always forget the FM+ scene with Vexen, Zexion and Xiger happens right after Xemnas'. I really love this scene (and Vexen is just plain fun to watch) but they really should have found a better place for this one, though I can't really think of a better spot besides "after Xemnas' name is properly revealed".

Xigbar's hood flapping about makes it look like IT'S the one talking. XD

I wish with Demyx's timer that instead of the game over, you just take damage for each water clone left (and getting game over if there were a lot.)

I really love Demyx's exaggerated body language and personality, but another thing I like is:

You can interpret him looking down as him thinking "how should I react/emote?"
Whether it's was intentional or not, it's a nice little touch.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Xigbar's hood flapping about makes it look like IT'S the one talking. XD

Ah, the true guardian of darkness!

 

[ShardofTruth]

Oh boy, that was painful to read, KHII's plot disintegrates before your eyes indeed. I really, really hope they get Maleficent back on track with KH3. That being said, this scene isn't so bad, the one that happens in The World That Never Was is so much worse.

The black room is probably the strangest thing in the whole series, it doesn't make a lick of sense. Why does Maleficent send them there? Why is Riku waiting for them there? Where exactly is it? Why is it so dark? Lore-wise it's probably not the realm of darkness because the gates shouldn't be working there (since they are provided by the worlds) and the quick escape would make the ending sequence (and Aqua's imprisonment) kind of pointless. Not even Jiminy knows what going on, as if he wasn't even there.

Since the whole scene is animated and not explained away off screen I think it happened at a place in the original script which made so little sense in the rewritten (or re-jumbled) script, that even a completely black room was an improvement.

I still don't know what exactly was gained by this whole affair, why didn't Maleficent just send them to their Gummi Ship while the stuff in the boxed could have been found later in Twilight Town, when those "clues" could have actually made sense.

 

[h.e.hassanein]

Oh god, I used to read the retrospectives way back when Kingdom Hearts I was getting wrapped up! So glad you're still making them, they're always a pleasure to read xx

 

[Blackdrazon]

Since the whole scene is animated and not explained away off screen I think it happened at a place in the original script which made so little sense in the rewritten (or re-jumbled) script, that even a completely black room was an improvement.

I think that's a good possibility, it might even suggest the non-chronological sequences were the result of a hasty edit? I wonder where it originally belonged, then? Your guess about Riku giving you the evidence in Twilight Town seems like a good possibility!

 

[GrovyleTheThief]

The enemies in the 1000 Heartless fight aren't fully rendered all at once. The ones farther away are just animated textures, which then "pop" into models when you get close. This technique seems to be used in all horde fights, like the Rapid Thrusters in Land of Dragons, the Dusks in Betwixt and Between, and the Jellyshades in Birth by Sleep.

Oh, and that pose Sora makes in front of Siax is thought to come from some element of Japanese culture or manners, but I forgot what it was called. I'm not sure it's Dogeza, because that has to do with apologizing, rather than begging.

 

[Blackdrazon]

The enemies in the 1000 Heartless fight aren't fully rendered all at once. The ones farther away are just animated textures, which then "pop" into models when you get close. This technique seems to be used in all horde fights, like the Rapid Thrusters in Land of Dragons, the Dusks in Betwixt and Between, and the Jellyshades in Birth by Sleep.

Oh, and that pose Sora makes in front of Siax is thought to come from some element of Japanese culture or manners, but I forgot what it was called. I'm not sure it's Dogeza, because that has to do with apologizing, rather than begging.

Thanks Grovyle! I'll try to make adjustments.