KH2 in the Smithsonian

[XIII Heartless]

I giggle because the opening movie was made by one of the FF development teams as a gift.

Which one? And does that make a difference.....it's all under Square. *shrug*

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Which one? And does that make a difference.....it's all under Square. *shrug*

KH2's opening.

And I was just giggling at the irony of Ulti's statement.

 

[Xammag]

Are you joking? KH CGI is at the mediocre level. It is dumbs itself down so the Disney characters aren't awkward as hell. FF's CGI is beautiful. It is simply amazing. A lot of work and effort is put into every little bit. It takes the graphics and pushes them. Hell, look at LA Noir. That is artwork. That is perfection. That is actually trying to make your game a piece of art. KH? No. It is backwash of a greater looking franchise.

I would have to say that FF cgi in general is usually better than KH cgi, but scenes like Another side, Another story push the boundary you describe. They are not that far off.

 

[Luap]

Are you joking? KH CGI is at the mediocre level. It is dumbs itself down so the Disney characters aren't awkward as hell. FF's CGI is beautiful. It is simply amazing. A lot of work and effort is put into every little bit. It takes the graphics and pushes them. Hell, look at LA Noir. That is artwork. That is perfection. That is actually trying to make your game a piece of art. KH? No. It is backwash of a greater looking franchise.

You prefer one art style over the other, so the one you like better is superior.
Interesting.

 

[XIII Heartless]

Are you joking? KH CGI is at the mediocre level. It is dumbs itself down so the Disney characters aren't awkward as hell. FF's CGI is beautiful. It is simply amazing. A lot of work and effort is put into every little bit. It takes the graphics and pushes them. Hell, look at LA Noir. That is artwork. That is perfection. That is actually trying to make your game a piece of art. KH? No. It is backwash of a greater looking franchise.

Someone's determined to hate. I see no significant difference between the openings of KH/KHII and other FF's. And it's more than just the actual visual aspect. Setting said videos to music so that they tell a story and send shivers down your spine.....I haven't seen an FF game do that yet (except for that hi-def remake of FFVII, but that was more excitement than anything XD). Which is more appealing all comes down to preference.

 

[Shamdeo]

You prefer one art style over the other, so the one you like better is superior.
Interesting.

From a purely technical standpoint, she is right.

Setting said videos to music so that they tell a story and send shivers down your spine.....I haven't seen an FF game do that yet.

Whereas Utada copypasted into every game beats out all of the major FMV cutscenes bookending the Final Fantasy games. Nope. Really KH's FMV openings are more juxtaposed clips of random events in the games set to an already tired theme song. The endings' CG sequences aren't terribly evocative either. KH1 was Sora letting go of Kairi's hand and KH2 was the group running up onto the beach. On technical merit alone, the CG in the Kingdom Hearts franchise isn't nearly Final Fantasy quality but for aesthetic purposes is justifiable given the mishmash of different visual styles. It doesn't give it a leg up over it's predecessor by any means though.

 

[Ulti]

I would have to say that FF cgi in general is usually better than KH cgi, but scenes like Another side, Another story push the boundary you describe. They are not that far off.

ASAS is KH2 graphic quality. There is nothing outstanding or new about it. It falls into the generality of CGI. It looks good, but it is not the best.

Let's take two games that deserve WAY more respect for what they did, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami. SotC is a unique game in of itself as there is no real fighting but the Colossi themselves. Gameplay was not much to implement, so a lot of the effort went into the design of the game. And it worked incredibly well. The landscape is vast and infinite. The colossi are totally unique to each other and look simply amazing. How everything melds into beauty that you can easily forget that you are playing a game. You can just roam around the land as you want. Nothing is stopping you from sitting around and take in your surroundings.

Okami shouldn't even be questioned. It is literally moving art. The game's design is to give the feeling that its all brush strokes. Just run around. Its impressive. Every character, every tree, everything is apart of a moving painting. And you really get into that painting and feel like you are contributing to the painting. To say that KH2's quality beats all of the games listed in the category, then you know you are just spouting fanboy rants. It is easy to determine what game should be called art. This isn't what game is best. Stop treating it as such.

 

[Luap]

From a purely technical standpoint, she is right.

Yes, this is true.
But can you paint a water color painting with regular paint?

 

[Shamdeo]

Yes, this is true.
But can you paint a water color painting with regular paint?

If you're inferring that I'm considering visual style a redeeming or damning factor for either franchise, that would be incorrect. Regardless of what visual styles the two franchises evoke, Final Fantasy's caliber of FMV sequences is quite a bit higher.

 

[Ulti]

Yes, this is true.
But can you paint a water color painting with regular paint?

You do realize that watercolor paint is paint watered down, right?

 

[Luap]

If you're inferring that I'm considering visual style a redeeming or damning factor for either franchise, that would be incorrect. Regardless of what visual styles the two franchises evoke, Final Fantasy's caliber of FMV sequences is quite a bit higher.

True, true, but in this argument you can only really use FFX, X-2, XI, and XII in this arguement, and while their was a difference and FF was better, it's not huge.

You do realize that watercolor paint is paint watered down, right?

You do realize that the outcome between using the one instead the other has a distinction, right?

 

[Ulti]

You do realize that the outcome between using the one instead the other has a distinction, right?

And which would you see in a friggen museum?

 

[Xammag]

ASAS is KH2 graphic quality. There is nothing outstanding or new about it. It falls into the generality of CGI. It looks good, but it is not the best.

Let's take two games that deserve WAY more respect for what they did, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami. SotC is a unique game in of itself as there is no real fighting but the Colossi themselves. Gameplay was not much to implement, so a lot of the effort went into the design of the game. And it worked incredibly well. The landscape is vast and infinite. The colossi are totally unique to each other and look simply amazing. How everything melds into beauty that you can easily forget that you are playing a game. You can just roam around the land as you want. Nothing is stopping you from sitting around and take in your surroundings.

Okami shouldn't even be questioned. It is literally moving art. The game's design is to give the feeling that its all brush strokes. Just run around. Its impressive. Every character, every tree, everything is apart of a moving painting. And you really get into that painting and feel like you are contributing to the painting. To say that KH2's quality beats all of the games listed in the category, then you know you are just spouting fanboy rants. It is easy to determine what game should be called art. This isn't what game is best. Stop treating it as such.

I wasn't saying anything about KH in relation to all those other games, just figuring out what you were saying when relating FF and KH.

 

[Luap]

And which would you see in a friggen museum?

Both .

 

[Shamdeo]

True, true, but in this argument you can only really use FFX, X-2, XI, and XII in this arguement, and while their was a difference and FF was better, it's not huge.

Even by those terms, the visual quality and composition of the cutscenes featured are far superior, yes. Final Fantasy doesn't use FMV sequences as bookends that show random clips and scenes but integrated into the storytelling itself which the primary reason why it's of a better caliber.

 

[Ulti]

Both .

There is limited room in this museum. We cannot allow trash to be submitted simply because "oh I personally like this one!"

 

[Maxyli138]

There is limited room in this museum. We cannot allow trash to be submitted simply because "oh I personally like this one!"

Isn't this what most people are doing anyway? They vote for the games they WANT to see in the museum. This exhibit is about video games evolving, not what has the best quality.

 

[Luap]

Even by those terms, the visual quality and composition of the cutscenes featured are far superior, yes. Final Fantasy doesn't use FMV sequences as bookends that show random clips and scenes but integrated into the storytelling itself which the primary reason why it's of a better caliber.

These are also all true.
All I'm trying to say it that "KH isn't art" is an invalid statement. Not that it's superior, or equal to FF. It's not like FF is the standard for what is and isn't art. KH is art done it's own way.

There is limited room in this museum. We cannot allow trash to be submitted simply because "oh I personally like this one!"

And now you've lost the point of voting.

 

[Ulti]

Isn't this what most people are doing anyway? They vote for the games they WANT to see in the museum. This exhibit is about video games evolving, not what has the best quality.

Its the Smithsonian Art Museum. So, uh, yeah, its about the best looking games. This thread is filled with people just wanting KH in because its KH. Okami is far more deserving of a place because it is actually artwork. This is nothing but a popularity poll and its a shaming realization that not even gamers can show people that video games are art.

 

[Shamdeo]

These are also all true.
All I'm trying to say it that "KH isn't art" is an invalid statement. Not that it's superior, or equal to FF. It's not like FF is the standard for what is and isn't art. KH is art done it's own way.

All I'm explaining is that the general quality, style, direction, and implementation of Final Fantasy FMV cutscenes is a lot better than Kingdom Hearts. I'm not saying that Final Fantasy is necessarily a golden standard, or that Kingdom Hearts is somehow illegitimized by having less quality FMV cutscenes or a different approach with in how they're implemented.

Nothing more or less.