Kairi, the next keyblade wielder?? ...

[Athaydea]

I fail to see the point in restating something that was proved false.
Is Kairi likely to get a Keyblade? Yes, because they kind of already admitted they failed with her thus far.
Is it based at this point in time that you can make a logical deduction about it?
No. Hardly.

lol i as simply giving some awknowledment for over looking the details i used to validate my reasons for thinking what i did ..the details themselves are what you proved to be wrong due to my lack of understanding/false interpretation ..and see the point i was trying to make in regards to the idea of her being chosen by a keyblade ..

youve made your case about this ..im more worried about what you have to say about my post before that ..the duel-wielding concept is more important to me than this ..

 

[Smile]

lol i as simply giving some awknowledment for over looking the details i used to validate my reasons for thinking what i did ..the details themselves are what you proved to be wrong due to my lack of understanding/false interpretation ..and see the point i was trying to make in regards to the idea of her being chosen by a keyblade ..

Oh, no one ever said Kairi'd never ever be possibly a Wielder. Sadly, that seems to be the direction they're heading in. However, plot wise, it's baseless atm. That's what I'm saying.

youve made your case about this ..im more worried about what you have to say about my post before that ..the duel-wielding concept is more important to me than this ..

Here you go.

techinically its only one keyblade isnt it ..its just the KK??

Nope. It's like Mickey and Sora both had Star Seekers, but different Keyblades, obviously.
That, and Nomura confirmed there to be two Keyblades involved, pretty much.

and assuming he could create the keychains thourhg memories ..he would have a second keyblade at his disposal at any time

Nope. Sora has a gazillion Keychains. You see him at most Duel Wielding. That's because after he fused with Roxas, he only had two Keyblades to utilize. You need to have at least as many Keychains as you do Keyblades. You can have more Keychains, but you stop at the number of Keyblades you have. Makes sense, no? Keyblades vs Keychains. Har.

which also makes you wonder about a few things ..were were both terra and MX a part od xheanort ..apprentice xehanort himself should have had the ability to wield not one but 2 blades given the fact that 2 different peoples hearts are within him

Uh, if they fused to create him, you'd get only one person, seeing how in this case, the whole =\= the sum of his components.
Sora has relations to Ven, but isn't Ven, seeing how child-Sora was around at the same time Ven was alive - as far as we know. And Roxas mostly gave Sora "back" something that was already his.
This is a whole different story however where instead of two, you get one, instead of an odd mixture like Sora-Roxas.

all i want to know in regards to this is one thing? ..is XH (xehanorts heart) ..still inside of riku and still very much alive? ..because say thhat were ..all it needs is to be released (in the same way that kairi's was from sora pehaps) ..and XH ..possibly even Xehanort himself if his body were restored (again, in the same way that kairi made that possible for sora) ..are back in business ..it would take away riku's ability to duel-weild as well should the presense of a second heart be stripped from him

Beat the Heartless, and then beat the Nobody, and you get the whole being, thus said Another Report. XH was purified from Riku (also notice how the extra Keyblade didn't show up past this point, so much that Kairi didn't even have that option anymore). Xemnas was then beaten by Sora and Riku.
Xehanort no doubt will return in KH3, and Riku is probably left with only the WtD and a Keychain he has nothing to do with.

 

[Organization_42]

you basically just took my entire point and said it better than me ..thank you ..my thoughts exactly

You're welcome!

By real world definition yes, but in the realm of KH it differs. The fine line between master and wielder hasn't really been clarified yet so she can't be labeled a wielder. Besides a wielder is able to call back the blade and wield it without any outside interference. She however has not shown that ability.

Perhaps she hasn't summoned one yet, but she's the closest candidate for doing so in the future because she was able to hold on to it without it going back to Riku.

Do me a favor next time and go over the thread first, k? we addressed like a gazillion bits of what you posted.

I read quite a few of them actually, it's not my fault if I got seriously ninja'd.

Only again, you can't ignore Riku willing the Keyblade to stay with her,

I'm not sure if that's really how it works. We know next to nothing about how a person dual-wields or whether they can temporarily share that power with others or the works. Hopefully Birth by Sleep and Kingdom Hearts 3 will be more specific, but the only thing we know for certain is that you need a strong heart to wield a Keyblade. And yes, there is that moment when Roxas tosses one of his Keyblades to Riku in Deep Dive, but it's already been established that Riku can wield a Keyblade. Roxas would not have to force it to stay there with him.

She can come along without having a Keyblade. Or did I miss where she did something aside from being protected after the Gayblade disappeared?

Sure she can, I just don't think it's very likely, with the Keyblades being a major weapon in the games.

1) Show someone other than Sora and Roxas Duel Wield, being Riku, thus giving us another point to go by when creating a pattern.
2) Have Riku be in Xehanort's Form while Duel Wielding, hence making the logical similarity to Sora and Roxas Duel Wielding no doubt thanks to Ven.

Those would be great, except that they never made it clear in the game itself that Riku was dual-wielding.

3) Tying Xehanort to the Keyblade, since he's probably where Riku got it from.

But they could do that easily without Kairi.

Otherwise, I donno, you'd think they'd have done a whole issue out of OMFG KAIRI'S A WIELDER TOO OMFG LOLOLOLOLOL.

Exactly, that's why I think they will, in Kingdom Hearts 3.

:I
The only reason I can think of that made them give that extra Keyblade to Kairi, Nojima wasting an epic Riku-Duel-Wielding-and-using-both-Keyblades aside, was that they had no other place to shove her "This time, I'll fight".
And if that's what they did with her when she finally fought... I'll pass on her having an active fighting role in KH3 :I
That scene was just fine and had plenty of meaning without Kairi getting anything out of it.

That too. But I don't see why she won't have an active fighting role when she's pretty much expressed over and over again that that's what she wants, and she doesn't want to be the pretty and protected one anymore.

mmmyeah, "not everyone in TAV are related to SRK" :v and as much as I do like to think the Terra-Riku relations might not hold that much, I also don't see a reason to argue Aqua-Kairi relations atm either.
Terra-Riku at least had Terra actually picking Riku for the Keyblade. Saying Aqua's why Kairi's going to wield is baseless. Especially because if not all of TAV are SRK related, history already repeated 2/3 times. That leaves us with the odd man out - being Kairi and Aqua.

I wasn't saying that Kairi is Aqua's direct descendant or something along those lines. I was more talking symbolically. Three friends, two boys and a girl, with Keyblades, going off to fight Xehanort. What I meant was that Kairi's role would become similar to Aqua's, kind of like how Axel and Riku play similar roles in their trios of friendship, but we know that Axel is not Riku's Nobody or something like that.

 

[Iridium]

Perhaps she hasn't summoned one yet, but she's the closest candidate for doing so in the future because she was able to hold on to it without it going back to Riku.

Again, Riku allowed her to; he even said take it :\

 

[Athaydea]

Oh, no one ever said Kairi'd never ever be possibly a Wielder. Sadly, that seems to be the direction they're heading in. However, plot wise, it's baseless atm. That's what I'm saying

this is all ive been saying ..i just went about explaining why in all the wrong ways i think ..

Nope. It's like Mickey and Sora both had Star Seekers, but different Keyblades, obviously.
That, and Nomura confirmed there to be two Keyblades involved, pretty much.

perhaps roxas's keyblade took the form of the KK becuase he had the memory of it from sora? if roxas's had his own keyblade due to ven, it might not have looked like the KK at all, rather roxas simply created a keychain through a memory he had from sora giving it that appearance? ..this might also explain why when roxas was duel-wielding ..his blades took the shape of the oathkeeper and oblivion ..if im not mistaken? ..in the beginning of kh2 ..as you progress with roxas in digital twilight town ..at the end of every day, he would have dreams about sora, he would remember things .. than he all of a sudden begins duel wielding with those blades ..perhaps it was because his memories created the keychains for those blades and gave them their appearances as well?

Nope. Sora has a gazillion Keychains. You see him at most Duel Wielding. That's because after he fused with Roxas, he only had two Keyblades to utilize. You need to have at least as many Keychains as you do Keyblades. You can have more Keychains, but you stop at the number of Keyblades you have. Makes sense, no? Keyblades vs Keychains. Har.

no that makes sense ..i wasnt talking about sora though ..i was talking about riku ..riku didnt have access to the other keyblade made available trhough XH because he had no keychains to sustain it trhough until he made one from memories of kairi

Uh, if they fused to create him, you'd get only one person, seeing how in this case, the whole =\= the sum of his components.

but say their hearts had fused ..the memories of both would still be dormant within the one heart created ..i think the overwhelming power of the memories and strength of the hearts themselves coming together are what resulted in xehanort having no memories of his own ..the memories of both shold still be within his own heart tho ..he just didnt know how to access them as far as we know?

Beat the Heartless, and then beat the Nobody, and you get the whole being. XH was purified from Riku (also notice how the extra Keyblade didn't show up past this point, so much that Kairi didn't even have that option anymore). Xemnas was then beaten by Sora and Riku.
Xehanort no doubt will return in KH3, and Riku is probably left with only the WtD and a Keychain he has nothing to do with.

thats what ive been thinking ..i just wasnt really sure if XH had been exterminated completely since his presence was still in riku ..if both the nobody and heartless were destroyed ..xehanorts whole being should be restored trhough kingdom hearts right? ..

 

[Smile]

Perhaps she hasn't summoned one yet, but she's the closest candidate for doing so in the future because she was able to hold on to it without it going back to Riku.

Uh, no. Unless you wanna tell me all PoHs are about to pop Keyblades out of their rear ends too :\

I'm not sure if that's really how it works. We know next to nothing about how a person dual-wields or whether they can temporarily share that power with others or the works.

Riku-Sora.
Roxas-Riku.
Riku-Kairi.
You can :\ the circumstances for each are different enough to say that you can. You can even lend your regular Keyblade so why not the Duel Blade?

Hopefully Birth by Sleep and Kingdom Hearts 3 will be more specific, but the only thing we know for certain is that you need a strong heart to wield a Keyblade.

No, you need a strong Heart to have a Keyblade, period. It's just that for the most part, no one ever wielded a Keyblade without actually owning one. And no, I'm not saying Kairi's a Wielder because she managed to use it - I'm saying Kairi's the only example of her kind, being a none-wielder that used a Keyblade. And again, Kairi doesn't really come off as strong hearted in light of what went on in KH1, I'm sorry.

And yes, there is that moment when Roxas tosses one of his Keyblades to Riku in Deep Dive, but it's already been established that Riku can wield a Keyblade. Roxas would not have to force it to stay there with him.

Uh, Riku couldn't really wield at that time, you're forgetting that. He lost the KK in KH1 and didn't get the WtD until the end of KH2. Roxas gave him the Keyblade because he wanted to.

Sure she can, I just don't think it's very likely, with the Keyblades being a major weapon in the games.

Have we been playing the same game? Because despite having SRM, no one else playable had Keyblades :\

Those would be great, except that they never made it clear in the game itself that Riku was dual-wielding.

They made it a lot clearer that Riku was Duel Wielding than they did Kairi Wielding at all. what with Riku being the one that pulled the Keyblade out of thin air and told Kairi to take it. :\

But they could do that easily without Kairi.

True that, but they killed two birds with one stone, seeing how if they wouldn't have given her the Keyblade, they'd have had no place at all to shove her "this time, I'll fight". Keyblades are the only weapons they could literally pull out of nowhere, so they had Riku pull one for her.

Exactly, that's why I think they will, in Kingdom Hearts 3.

...no. It's unbased. :\ which is the point of this thread. They made a lot more relations to Duel Wielding and Xehanort, hence making that scene much liklier to relate to that. Kairi's ties to the Keyblade begin and end with being a PoH.

That too. But I don't see why she won't have an active fighting role when she's pretty much expressed over and over again that that's what she wants, and she doesn't want to be the pretty and protected one anymore.

Pardon my French but because she sucks. And unless they show us her training, with all respect to her jumping off insane heights and all without ever doing anything aside from standing on the shore line waiting for Sora, she'll continue to suck even with a Keyblade and even two.

I wasn't saying that Kairi is Aqua's direct descendant or something along those lines. I was more talking symbolically.

...like duh? >>; did you even read what I wrote earlier? The "symbolic" history repeated already - for Sora and Riku, leaving Kairi out.

Three friends, two boys and a girl, with Keyblades, going off to fight Xehanort. What I meant was that Kairi's role would become similar to Aqua's, kind of like how Axel and Riku play similar roles in their trios of friendship, but we know that Axel is not Riku's Nobody or something like that.

You kind of admitted that just because they're in a trio, they don't have to relate to the other trios. And with Riku having likely Terra relations already, that leaves, again, Kairi without relations to Aqua.

perhaps roxas's keyblade took the form of the KK becuase he had the memory of it from sora? if roxas's had his own keyblade due to ven, it might not have looked like the KK at all, rather roxas simply created a keychain through a memory he had from sora giving it that appearance?

Well, the KK was the "default" appearance, so it's likely to say he took at least that much from Sora, and later on created the Oathkeeper and Oblivion once he could Duel Wield (let's not go too much into Days territory though otherwise I'll run away screaming >>)

..this might also explain why when roxas was duel-wielding ..his blades took the shape of the oathkeeper and oblivion ..if im not mistaken? ..in the beginning of kh2 ..as you progress with roxas in digital twilight town ..at the end of every day, he would have dreams about sora, he would remember things .. than he all of a sudden begins duel wielding with those blades ..perhaps it was because his memories created the keychains for those blades and gave them their appearances as well?

Likely scenario, yes. You got the setting right, but again - let's not expand on that ;; I don't wanna stop debating here for now.

no that makes sense ..i wasnt talking about sora though ..i was talking about riku ..riku didnt have access to the other keyblade made available trhough XH because he had no keychains to sustain it trhough until he made one from memories of kairi

Yup. Two Keyblades, one Keychain. Hence he couldn't use the other Keyblade until he got that extra Keychain from Memories of DI and Kairi.

but say their hearts had fused ..the memories of both would still be dormant within the one heart created ..i think the overwhelming power of the memories and strength of the hearts themselves coming together are what resulted in xehanort having no memories of his own ..the memories of both shold still be within his own heart tho ..he just didnt know how to access them as far as we know?

Well, Xehanort lost his Memories, remember? So we can't really say that. And we're dealing with one Heart where by what you're saying, should've been two. And then we get more Sora-Kairi and Riku-XH. But we got something else.

thats what ive been thinking ..i just wasnt really sure if XH had been exterminated completely since his presence was still in riku ..

Oh no, he's probably gone. Who'd be the antagonist for KH3 otherwise?

if both the nobody and heartless were destroyed ..xehanorts whole being should be restored trhough kingdom hearts right? ..

No. Kingdom Hearts was there to help Nobodies become whole without going through that procedure. Now that both the Heartless and Nobody are gone, Xehanort doesn't need Kingdom Hearts to become whole - that'd happen "naturally".

 

[Finaly Sora]

You might as well say that Alice from Wonderland could be the next Keyblade weilder.

 

[Athaydea]

Well, the KK was the "default" appearance, so it's likely to say he took at least that much from Sora, and later on created the Oathkeeper and Oblivion once he could Duel Wield (let's not go too much into Days territory though otherwise I'll run away screaming >>)

Likely scenario, yes. You got the setting right, but again - let's not expand on that ;; I don't wanna stop debating here for now.

i didnt include days in regards to all this ..i know why he can - idk if YOU do ..either way it all ties into memories

Yup. Two Keyblades, one Keychain. Hence he couldn't use the other Keyblade until he got that extra Keychain from Memories of DI and Kairi.

makes sense

Well, Xehanort lost his Memories, remember? So we can't really say that. And we're dealing with one Heart where by what you're saying, should've been two. And then we get more Sora-Kairi and Riku-XH. But we got something else.

no i guess dual-weilding for xehanort wouldnt have been possible ..i dont like to use the word fusion but for all intents and purposes thats pretty much what will happen ..fusion is the coming together of two beings to form one that shares characteristics of both ..granted it may work differently in the kh universe ..but the same would probly still apply to the memories ..both of their memories of the keyblades come together to form one ...

Oh no, he's probably gone. Who'd be the antagonist for KH3 otherwise?

i would think xehanort but ..but idk ..the artificial kingdom hearts exploding released XH presence within riku ..i dont think it necessarily killed him tho>??

No. Kingdom Hearts was there to help Nobodies become whole without going through that procedure. Now that both the Heartless and Nobody are gone, Xehanort doesn't need Kingdom Hearts to become whole - that'd happen "naturally".

hmm idk if im confused or what ..i remember reading somewhere that once a nobody and heartless of a being have been destroyed ..the heart of the original person is re-born within kingdom hearts ..

 

[DarkSoldier85]

I remember an argument I had with SufferingAngel about this.... In "Another Report" Nomura said Kairi could use her Keyblade just like Riku and Sora. So she either can use a Keyblade or may be able to at some point. It would be nice for her to actually play a bigger fighting role...

 

[Muse]

Uh, when exactly does he say that in Another Report? :v Because I don't remember that being said at all.

 

[DarkSoldier85]

VI - Could you please give an explanation for the new keyblade "Way to the Dawn" that Riku obtained and the keyblade Kairi has as well as what the conditions for using a keyblade are?

There isn't necessarily one keyblade for the dark side and one for the light side, just as many as there exist people with qualified hearts. Concerning the conditions to wield one, at this stage, "Those with strong hearts" is the only obvious one. However, less obvious conditions still exist and there are still plans for an opportunity to reveal those. Riku's "Way to the Dawn" and Kairi's keyblade are naturally the same type of keyblade as Sora's. However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi. When there isn't a normal process of acquisition, I think its ok to think there is some deeper meaning there.

Not exactly what I said, but I was close.

 

[Athaydea]

VI - Could you please give an explanation for the new keyblade "Way to the Dawn" that Riku obtained and the keyblade Kairi has as well as what the conditions for using a keyblade are?

There isn't necessarily one keyblade for the dark side and one for the light side, just as many as there exist people with qualified hearts. Concerning the conditions to wield one, at this stage, "Those with strong hearts" is the only obvious one. However, less obvious conditions still exist and there are still plans for an opportunity to reveal those. Riku's "Way to the Dawn" and Kairi's keyblade are naturally the same type of keyblade as Sora's. However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi. When there isn't a normal process of acquisition, I think its ok to think there is some deeper meaning there.

i think that alone is evidnce that it wasnt a simple .."here kairi use this for now cause youll never wield a keyblade again" type of situation ..that was shown on purpose ..the likelyhood of kairi's involvement becoming much more inmportant is prettty high

 

[Muse]

Not exactly what I said, but I was close.

Not really. Also, don't ignore this part:

However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi.

It, referring to the Soul Eater, which is Riku's weapon. :v Not Kairi's Keyblade; Riku's.

i think that alone is evidnce that it wasnt a simple .."here kairi use this for now cause youll never wield a keyblade again" type of situation ..that was shown on purpose ..the likelyhood of kairi's involvement becoming much more inmportant is prettty high

The deeper meaning could be more the fact that suddenly Riku just popped a Keyblade out of nowhere and not that he gave it to Kairi, you know. :v

 

[Athaydea]

It, referring to the Soul Eater, which is Riku's weapon. :v Not Kairi's Keyblade; Riku's.

kind of common knowledge that was riku's
no one ever said it was kairi's either? ..it's a keyblade ..it couldnt have been hers (at that point in time =P)

The deeper meaning could be more the fact that suddenly Riku just popped a Keyblade out of nowhere and not that he gave it to Kairi, you know. :v

perhaps both ..

 

[Muse]

kind of common knowledge that was riku's
no one ever said it was kairi's either?

I remember an argument I had with SufferingAngel about this.... In "Another Report" Nomura said Kairi could use her Keyblade just like Riku and Sora. So she either can use a Keyblade or may be able to at some point. It would be nice for her to actually play a bigger fighting role...

Uh, yeah. Someone did say it was Kairi's Keyblade. :v Which is why I posted that, to prove that it was Riku's. Not hers.

..it's a keyblade ..it couldnt have been hers (at that point in time =P)

Considering how the Keychain is one forged by the memories Riku had of DI and Kairi, I don't think that Kairi would be able to use that specific Keyblade again unless Riku gave her permission. Again.

 

[DarkSoldier85]

I've said this several times in several different posts: The requirements for using a Keyblade are for the user to have a strong heart and for them to have a way to acquire it. In this case, we don't know whether or not Kairi has a strong heart, just a pure one. The way to acquire it of course could be anything, even for Riku to just hand it to her.

EDIT: And of course for the Keyblade to accept them as the user.

 

[Alex999]

kind of common knowledge that was riku's
no one ever said it was kairi's either? ..it's a keyblade ..it couldnt have been hers (at that point in time =P)



perhaps both ..

perhaps both but im leaning more towards that he meant that he handed it to kairi rather than where he got it.

 

[Muse]

I've said this several times in several different posts: The requirements for using a Keyblade are for the user to have a strong heart and for them to have a way to acquire it. In this case, we don't know whether or not Kairi has a strong heart, just a pure one. The way to acquire it of course could be anything, even for Riku to just hand it to her.

Due to what happened in KH1, with Kairi's heart fleeing from her body when Heartless first come to DI, I wouldn't exactly call it 'strong'.

EDIT: And of course for the Keyblade to accept them as the user.

I would think that, had it accepted Kairi as its user, it would have stuck around longer instead of disappearing when the Heartless were taken care of.

That being said, if it really was Kairi's Keyblade, then why wasn't she up there alongside Riku, Sora, and Mickey, pointing her Keyblade defiantly at Xemnas and yelling, "No," when he told them to go fetch him some more hearts? :/ Because it wasn't her Keyblade; it was Riku's that he lent her while he was dual-wielding.

 

[Athaydea]

Uh, yeah. Someone did say it was Kairi's Keyblade. :v Which is why I posted that, to prove that it was Riku's. Not hers.

ohh sorry ..i just interpreted that as it being the one she used .. not her own keyblade ..

Considering how the Keychain is one forged by the memories Riku had of DI and Kairi, I don't think that Kairi would be able to use that specific Keyblade again unless Riku gave her permission. Again.

i agree ..and idk why i added that at that point in time ..that twisted the meaning of what i meant to say ..which was that she couldnt have A keyblade at that time becuase (based on what ive said throughout this thread - she has yet to be chosen by one) ..not that particualr keyblade (aka gayblade)..

perhaps both but im leaning more towards that he meant that he handed it to kairi rather than where he got it.

im leaning on both actually lol ..it would shed light on the whole duelwielidng thing as well as kairi's role in regards to the keyblade ..both of which are kind of important

 

[Muse]

ohh sorry ..i just interpreted that as it being the one she used .. not her own keyblade ..

Which is how Nomura probably meant to say it. I mean, he couldn't exactly say the Gayblade, now could he? That's a KH fan term. :v

i agree ..and idk why i added that at that point in time ..that twisted the meaning of what i meant to say ..which was that she couldnt have A keyblade at that time becuase (based on what ive said throughout this thread - she has yet to be chosen by one) ..not that particualr keyblade (aka gayblade)..

Personally, I know full and well that people expect Kairi to get a Keyblade because it will make her more important and more active in the series. But there are other ways to make someone more important other than giving them a Keyblade.

Make her a mage. Give her healing powers and let her and Donald have fun blowing up Heartless. That certainly makes her more important than a mere damsel-in-distress and certainly gives her a more active role than being nothing but a lifeless doll.

Then you could go the other way and make her become corrupted with the light. Make her think that those with darkness in their hearts are bad and thus, she should get rid of them to ensure peace and tranquility for everyone. She could even wind up being one of the major antagonists that you'll have to fight. That'll give her more importance and activity than before, that also doesn't resort to her having a Keyblade.

I feel that if Kairi gets a Keyblade, it'll just be a cheap gag. I mean, Riku originally had the KK, lost it, and then it took him until the end of KH2 to get a new Keyblade. Now you're going to give Kairi a Keyblade as well, just for the heck of it? But I digress. No one cares about my ranting anyhow.

im leaning on both actually lol ..it would shed light on the whole duelwielidng thing as well as kairi's role in regards to the keyblade ..

Well, like Rain said, that was probably the only way they could work in her line of, "This time, I'm going to fight!" because other than a Keyblade, there's not really any sort of weapon that can just pop out of the blue.