Hello, everyone.
I'm putting out a request here for opinions you all may have, and perhaps some info from the games I may have overlooked.
I will consider Nomura interviews, but with a grain of salt, and of course primary canon wins. You go to the bible for answers before you go to the pope, after all.
As always, speculation is greatly encouraged and feel free to tell me if I'm wrong about something.
And I apologize in advance if this has all been discussed before. I'd love to read any previous threads on the subject if someone would like to link me. I haven't been able to find any myself.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out the nature of the Heartless and the real difference between purebloods and Emblems.
I know that purebloods are formed naturally and Emblems, at least the first ones, were created artificially.
The process through which pureblood Heartless are born is fairly straightforward:
For one reason or another, the darkness in a person's heart takes over and causes the collapse of the heart. The heart is destroyed and the Heartless is created from the darkness that was within (and perhaps a bit of what's left of the heart). So when a pureblood Heartless is destroyed it simply dissipates; the heart has already been undone.
The body and soul vanish, and perhaps are reborn later as Nobodies, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
Ansem's Report 4 says that "The hearts taken by the Heartless become Heartless themselves." Do the Heartless that capture the Hearts cultivate the darkness in them until they collapse? The answer is not immediately clear, but the Heartless do seem to reproduce in this fashion.
Emblem Heartless, however, are a little harder for me to pin down. The first ones were created by a machine first described in Ansem's Report 8, called the Heartless Manufactory in KH2.
This machine "[recreates] the conditions that spawn the Heartless naturally", and what that actually means is unclear.
It clearly does not collapse a heart artificially, as that would simply produce a pureblood, if an artificial one. Emblem Heartless release a heart when defeated, so the heart is clearly is not destroyed in the Emblem process. It seems more likely that the heart is simply enshrouded in darkness, but this is pure conjecture on my part.
Whether the machine uses stolen hearts itself or uses some sort of artificial heart is also not elaborated upon.
Secret Ansem's Report 5 contains the very interesting sentence "Not only did they generate "pureblood" Heartless from living hearts, but they then used those Heartless to synthesize artificial versions of the creatures as well." Whether this means that the used the pureblood Heartless as a sort of template to make the Emblem Heartless or that the machine somehow turns pureblood Heartless into Emblem Heartless is, as well, unclear.
The wiki article contains the sentence "Afterward, stolen hearts can become Emblems." whether this is through the Manufactory or some innate process is not stated. The statement is unsourced and I have been unable to find any reference to such a process in the Ansem Reports.
It seems unlikely that the Manufactory is responsible for the (nearly) overwhelming numbers of Emblem Heartless present in the games, especially after the reclamation of the Radiant Garden, but I have been unable to find canon reference to another source of them (feel free to point me toward one).
In either case, strength of the Heartless appears to be largely a matter of exactly how much darkness was in the heart, and how strong the heart was. So we get Sora's Heartless being a lowly Shadow, and Xehanort's Heartless being a giant monstrosity.
One must wonder exactly whose heart became monstrosities such as Kurt Zisa or the implacable Invisibles.
To recap my points of confusion:
- "Do the [pureblood] Heartless that capture the Hearts cultivate the darkness in them until they collapse?"
-"This machine "[recreates] the conditions that spawn the Heartless naturally", and what that actually means is unclear."
What do you think it means? Be as thorough in your explanation as you can.
-"Whether the machine uses stolen hearts itself or uses some sort of artificial heart is also not elaborated upon."
Do you think the machine uses artificial hearts? If so, just for fun, what do you think it means in relation to the Replica project? If not, please explain what makes you think so.
-"Not only did they generate "pureblood" Heartless from living hearts, but they then used those Heartless to synthesize artificial versions of the creatures as well."
What do you think this sentence means? Do you think Emblems are modified purebloods, or simply used purebloods as a starting point? Or do you think something else entirely?
-"It seems unlikely that the Manufactory is responsible for the (nearly) overwhelming numbers of Emblem Heartless present in the games"
Do you think the Manufactory is solely responsible for the amount of Emblem Heartless in the World, or that at least some are the result of an innate reproduction process? Please explain what makes you think that.
-"One must wonder exactly whose heart became monstrosities such as Kurt Zisa or the implacable Invisibles."
This one has little relevance, I'm just curious what everyone thinks about this one.
Thanks for reading! I look forward to everyone's thoughts.
I'm putting out a request here for opinions you all may have, and perhaps some info from the games I may have overlooked.
I will consider Nomura interviews, but with a grain of salt, and of course primary canon wins. You go to the bible for answers before you go to the pope, after all.
As always, speculation is greatly encouraged and feel free to tell me if I'm wrong about something.
And I apologize in advance if this has all been discussed before. I'd love to read any previous threads on the subject if someone would like to link me. I haven't been able to find any myself.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out the nature of the Heartless and the real difference between purebloods and Emblems.
I know that purebloods are formed naturally and Emblems, at least the first ones, were created artificially.
The process through which pureblood Heartless are born is fairly straightforward:
For one reason or another, the darkness in a person's heart takes over and causes the collapse of the heart. The heart is destroyed and the Heartless is created from the darkness that was within (and perhaps a bit of what's left of the heart). So when a pureblood Heartless is destroyed it simply dissipates; the heart has already been undone.
The body and soul vanish, and perhaps are reborn later as Nobodies, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
Ansem's Report 4 says that "The hearts taken by the Heartless become Heartless themselves." Do the Heartless that capture the Hearts cultivate the darkness in them until they collapse? The answer is not immediately clear, but the Heartless do seem to reproduce in this fashion.
Emblem Heartless, however, are a little harder for me to pin down. The first ones were created by a machine first described in Ansem's Report 8, called the Heartless Manufactory in KH2.
This machine "[recreates] the conditions that spawn the Heartless naturally", and what that actually means is unclear.
It clearly does not collapse a heart artificially, as that would simply produce a pureblood, if an artificial one. Emblem Heartless release a heart when defeated, so the heart is clearly is not destroyed in the Emblem process. It seems more likely that the heart is simply enshrouded in darkness, but this is pure conjecture on my part.
Whether the machine uses stolen hearts itself or uses some sort of artificial heart is also not elaborated upon.
Secret Ansem's Report 5 contains the very interesting sentence "Not only did they generate "pureblood" Heartless from living hearts, but they then used those Heartless to synthesize artificial versions of the creatures as well." Whether this means that the used the pureblood Heartless as a sort of template to make the Emblem Heartless or that the machine somehow turns pureblood Heartless into Emblem Heartless is, as well, unclear.
The wiki article contains the sentence "Afterward, stolen hearts can become Emblems." whether this is through the Manufactory or some innate process is not stated. The statement is unsourced and I have been unable to find any reference to such a process in the Ansem Reports.
It seems unlikely that the Manufactory is responsible for the (nearly) overwhelming numbers of Emblem Heartless present in the games, especially after the reclamation of the Radiant Garden, but I have been unable to find canon reference to another source of them (feel free to point me toward one).
In either case, strength of the Heartless appears to be largely a matter of exactly how much darkness was in the heart, and how strong the heart was. So we get Sora's Heartless being a lowly Shadow, and Xehanort's Heartless being a giant monstrosity.
One must wonder exactly whose heart became monstrosities such as Kurt Zisa or the implacable Invisibles.
To recap my points of confusion:
- "Do the [pureblood] Heartless that capture the Hearts cultivate the darkness in them until they collapse?"
-"This machine "[recreates] the conditions that spawn the Heartless naturally", and what that actually means is unclear."
What do you think it means? Be as thorough in your explanation as you can.
-"Whether the machine uses stolen hearts itself or uses some sort of artificial heart is also not elaborated upon."
Do you think the machine uses artificial hearts? If so, just for fun, what do you think it means in relation to the Replica project? If not, please explain what makes you think so.
-"Not only did they generate "pureblood" Heartless from living hearts, but they then used those Heartless to synthesize artificial versions of the creatures as well."
What do you think this sentence means? Do you think Emblems are modified purebloods, or simply used purebloods as a starting point? Or do you think something else entirely?
-"It seems unlikely that the Manufactory is responsible for the (nearly) overwhelming numbers of Emblem Heartless present in the games"
Do you think the Manufactory is solely responsible for the amount of Emblem Heartless in the World, or that at least some are the result of an innate reproduction process? Please explain what makes you think that.
-"One must wonder exactly whose heart became monstrosities such as Kurt Zisa or the implacable Invisibles."
This one has little relevance, I'm just curious what everyone thinks about this one.
Thanks for reading! I look forward to everyone's thoughts.
