Could Vanitas be residing in Sora?

[NuclearCheetos15]

Hello. So, yea.. im new here and I just wanted to get some opinions on this. Could Vanitas be currently residing within Sora along with Ventus, Roxas, and Xion? Of course many of you know that ominous scene in DDD when Vanitas appears along with young Xehanort in the cathedral.

Muh Darkness!

Here, Vanitas says "even if you're not the prisoner" in conjunction with young Xehanort to Sora following his whole "You're the one who has made your heart a prison" comment. This implies that, while Ventus, Roxas, and Xion probably don't see being within Sora as a "prison" (they're on an island), Vanitas is also within Sora, and he doesn't like it! Recall back during his final battle with Ventus in BBS. After his defeat, he is seen to disintegrate back into Vens heart, and as KH logic goes, once someone is gone, they are not truly gone. So could he still be lurking somewhere in Ven's heart (which is now in Sora)? Will he manage to break out? Tell me what ya think.

 

[ALittleNerd]

Oh definitely. Vanitas is practically confirmed to return, with one of the chess pieces on the board in one of kingdom heats 3 trailers being Vanitas's symbol. Not only that, but people love Vanitas, everyone wants to see Sora struggle with Darkness, or even turn temporally evil cause that would be bad ass. And it will help further his character, which he needs desperately.

If you want plot evidence then we can take your example, and the fact that If Vanitas survived the battle between him and Ventus in Birth by Sleep, then Sora's heart is where he would have ended up because of Sora and Ventus's later joining. Likely residing very deep as well.

 

[VoidGear.]

everyone wants to see Sora struggle with Darkness, or even turn temporally evil cause that would be bad ass.

Uhm, no?
That was kinda basically the idea behind 3D. He didn't exactly struggle with darkness, but with falling for some tricks connected to the darkness, so we already had that somehow.

To the topic: If he did, shouldn't Riku have met him inside Sora's heart at the end of 3D?

I'm not saying it can't be that he's in there, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Anagram]

Vanitas being in Sora would mean he's still in Ventus and I'm on the fence about that one since Vens entire final fight was about rejecting Vanitas and destroying the Xblade, the symbol of their fusion. Shattering it shattered their joined heart after which Ven wandered off to Sora.

Given what I remember of the DDD interviews of the time it's obvious Vanitas is there in some fashion since it was not only confirmed that Ventus was reacting to him but that he also currently lacks a body. Meaning Vanitas is there in a present sense but for now I assume he's hitchhiking on Xehanort.

 

[NuclearCheetos15]

Indeed, I cant wait to see the moment when Sora meets his psycho dopperganger. Can you imagine Vanitas with his swarm of unversed coming face to face with Sora and his army of dream eaters at the keyblade graveyard? Epicnesss!

 

[NuclearCheetos15]

To the topic: If he did, shouldn't Riku have met him inside Sora's heart at the end of 3D?

I'm not saying it can't be that he's in there, but I wouldn't bet on it.

True, but again theoretically, Vanitas is trapped within Ven's heart which in turn is also within Sora. If Riku had dove into Ven's heart then, again theoretically, he might have encountered vanitas in some metaphysical form. All in all, it is as if Vanitas is in a twofold prison.

 

[NuclearCheetos15]

Vanitas being in Sora would mean he's still in Ventus and I'm on the fence about that one since Vens entire final fight was about rejecting Vanitas and destroying the Xblade, the symbol of their fusion. Shattering it shattered their joined heart after which Ven wandered off to Sora.

Given what I remember of the DDD interviews of the time it's obvious Vanitas is there in some fashion since it was not only confirmed that Ventus was reacting to him but that he also currently lacks a body. Meaning Vanitas is there in a present sense but for now I assume he's hitchhiking on Xehanort.

Great points. When you consider the all contexts it does seems likely however. For example, since this is time traveling here, why didn't Vanitas show up in a more tangible form as opposed to a hazy appearance? Ansem SoD and Xemnas, whose bodies were destroyed in the timeline, came back physically solid which seems to imply that they were plucked by young xehanort straight from the timeline and not after the fact. Second, it is was kind of strange for him to say that Ven's heart was "reacting". This implies that it was through Ven's heart that Sora was even able to see Vanitas. Furthermore, what exactly cause the "reaction"? If it pertained to young Xehanort's words regarding "your heart is a prison" then this also enforces the idea that Vanitas still resides within Ven, albeit unable to exude any kind of power over him and just simply trapped. But, I kind of agree, he probably just was hitchin a ride somehow.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Vanitas being in Sora would mean he's still in Ventus and I'm on the fence about that one since Vens entire final fight was about rejecting Vanitas and destroying the Xblade, the symbol of their fusion. Shattering it shattered their joined heart after which Ven wandered off to Sora.

Given what I remember of the DDD interviews of the time it's obvious Vanitas is there in some fashion since it was not only confirmed that Ventus was reacting to him but that he also currently lacks a body. Meaning Vanitas is there in a present sense but for now I assume he's hitchhiking on Xehanort.

Furthemore, in addition to all this, it was also stated that Vanitas reacted to Ventus' presence within Sora, so both of them were reacting to each other.
So while the possibility that Vanitas is also inside Sora cannot be completely ruled out, it is rather unlikely as since throughout the whole story of DDD Ventus' heart reacts and stirs more than once. So if Vanitas would really be there too why did he react only once then?
VoidGear taking note of Riku finding no trace of Vanitas when he met everyone else inside the core of Sora's heart, even the data-projection of Ansem the Wise is also pretty telling in addition to the above fact that the main point of Ven's final battle in BBS was to undo the forced fusion between their hearts.

 

[Anagram]

Great points. When you consider the all contexts it does seems likely however. For example, since this is time traveling here, why didn't Vanitas show up in a more tangible form as opposed to a hazy appearance? Ansem SoD and Xemnas, whose bodies were destroyed in the timeline, came back physically solid which seems to imply that they were plucked by young xehanort straight from the timeline and not after the fact. Second, it is was kind of strange for him to say that Ven's heart was "reacting". This implies that it was through Ven's heart that Sora was even able to see Vanitas. Furthermore, what exactly cause the "reaction"? If it pertained to young Xehanort's words regarding "your heart is a prison" then this also enforces the idea that Vanitas still resides within Ven, albeit unable to exude any kind of power over him and just simply trapped. But, I kind of agree, he probably just was hitchin a ride somehow.

Here's Nomura's own words on it so take them how you will:

— What about Vanitas?

Nomura: Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn’t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that’s how he was visible.

KH3D Famitsu Weekly Interview Translated! - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

Ansem & Xemnas only have their physical forms because they was taken from a point in time before they was destroyed. Ansem in particular would have to be a version that had taken Rikus body to even have a human form at all.

For whatever reasons Vanitas is different. Xehanort pulled him not from the past but seemingly the present. The wording that he "reacted" to Ventus in Sora also implies Vanitas himself wasn't inside Sora but outside and thus reacting to Ven through being Sora.

 

[Neyan]

I'd say the most likely explanation is that Vanitas resides within Ventus' heart, which resides within Sora. Riku didn't see him inside Sora, because he's part of Ventus, not Sora.
Quite frankly it is the only plausible explanation that we can come up at this point, since Vanitas couldn't have survived being defeated by Ven otherwise. I mean, it's a common occurence in the series that characters of the brink of death seek refuge within other peoples' hearts, and it's not implausible that Vanitas would have done the same. Of course Ven's final battle was for the purpose of undying their fusion, but that is not what has happened here. Vanitas, probably reluctantly but still volunatrily, returned to Ven's heart rather than trying to posses him by force.
But obviously since Ven's heart is not part of Sora, Vanitas is basically trapped two-fold inside Sora i.e. it's his prison. What I don't get though, is how he managed to appear before Sora, but I suppose it's the same way how the other characters within Sora's heart appeared to him in TWTNW. (Or it's just the Realm Of Sleep's wibbly wobbly timey wimey dynamics idk)

 

[LightAndOblivion]

I'd say the most likely explanation is that Vanitas resides within Ventus' heart, which resides within Sora. Riku didn't see him inside Sora, because he's part of Ventus, not Sora.
Quite frankly it is the only plausible explanation that we can come up at this point, since Vanitas couldn't have survived being defeated by Ven otherwise. I mean, it's a common occurence in the series that characters of the brink of death seek refuge within other peoples' hearts, and it's not implausible that Vanitas would have done the same. Of course Ven's final battle was for the purpose of undying their fusion, but that is not what has happened here. Vanitas, probably reluctantly but still volunatrily, returned to Ven's heart rather than trying to posses him by force.
But obviously since Ven's heart is not part of Sora, Vanitas is basically trapped two-fold inside Sora i.e. it's his prison. What I don't get though, is how he managed to appear before Sora, but I suppose it's the same way how the other characters within Sora's heart appeared to him in TWTNW. (Or it's just the Realm Of Sleep's wibbly wobbly timey wimey dynamics idk)

That's far from the the most likely explanation about Vanitas and Nomura's comments practically goes against it.

Sephiroth0812 and Anagram most likely have it right.

Why would Vanitas and Ventus react off of each other if they were in the same heart? It makes no sense especially since we didn't see Vanitas again after that when Ventus' heart reacted to other things like the Terra and Aqua visions.

And coincidentally Vani shows up when Youngnort showed up so it gives the big implications that Vani is just chilling with the Norts right now but doesn't have a body after losing it in his battle with Ventus.

 

[Audo]

Thing is, if Vanitas is with the Norts, why wouldn't YMX just bring a time-travelling version (aka one that wouldn't be a hazy-ass ghost that can't do jack) with him? Why settle for a being without an actual presence when he could have just plucked Vanitas from time when he actually had a form? (One also has to question how a being without a physical form could at all be used for a vessel) I'm skeptical.

 

[LightAndOblivion]

Thing is, if Vanitas is with the Norts, why wouldn't YMX just bring a time-travelling version (aka one that wouldn't be a hazy-ass ghost that can't do jack) with him? Why settle for a being without an actual presence when he could have just plucked Vanitas from time when he actually had a form? (One also has to question how a being without a physical form could at all be used for a vessel) I'm skeptical.

Maybe time travel is a pain in the ass and if you have the means to give your present pawn a body of his own why waste all that time pulling more people thought time travel, with how it stands, Youngnort along with maybe Ansem and Xemnas could be the only time traveler(s)

All Vani needs is a body. He already has the signs of the Nort seed as his yellow eyes and strong connection to Xehanort should make painfully obvious.

The old geezer probably already has some means to this solution since it's Xehanort.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

But why would he bother giving someone ELSE a body when he only needs the other members because they're vessels?

 

[LightAndOblivion]

Because again time travel probably has its risks that Xehanort would want to avoid and if it means doing something little like giving an already norted Vanitas a simple vessel even if it's just some replica husk, he'd do it. Time travel seems to be only relevant just to have Youngnort part of the mix going forward tbh.

 

[Audo]

Because again time travel probably has its risks that Xehanort would want to avoid

I'm sorry but this is really reaching lol.
The entire twist of KH3D was that Xehanort thought time travel was so worth it that he had basically planned out this backup of a backup plan to meticulous detail just to pull it all off. Young Xehanort was definitely doing more than just bringing Ansem and Xemnas out of time, he was meant to gather all the scattered versions of Xehanort through time and bring them here on one predetermined day. If just giving random bodies to people was so easy Xehanort would've just done that himself for Xemnas and Ansem instead of having this complicated YMX plot brought forth.

 

[LightAndOblivion]

I'm sorry but this is really reaching lol.
The entire twist of KH3D was that Xehanort thought time travel was so worth it that he had basically planned out this backup of a backup plan to meticulous detail just to pull it all off. Young Xehanort was definitely doing more than just bringing Ansem and Xemnas out of time, he was meant to gather all the scattered versions of Xehanort through time and bring them here on one predetermined day. If just giving random bodies to people was so easy Xehanort would've just done that himself for Xemnas and Ansem instead of having this complicated YMX plot brought forth.

No its not really reaching if Xehanort really wanted Riku as his last vessel, then he could have just had the Riku that got taken over as Ansem as the 13th since he'd count as a version of Xehanort from the past. But instead he was working on the current Riku until they gave up on him and went for Sora.

Time travel may not be as convenient as he makes it seems. Just because DDD had it look like some awesome back up plan for Xehanort doesn't mean it carries no risks as we already know with the no altering determined events, certain time limitations in staying in a period you don't belong in, etc.

So when you can easily have present Norts around you, I honestly doubt he'd rely heavily on time travel. It was only a backup plan anyway to get certain members in his 13 darkness scheme. That's it.

We're still not even sure the deal is with Ansem and Xemnas yet so it's far too early to cast judgment on what he did with them. If they were brought back through time travel, it's simply because they don't exist anymore in the present nor could they realistically with Old Nort around.

So 1-3 time travellers in a group of 13 would be that way for a reason assuming the rest of the Norts are just ex members of the old group like Luxord or Marluxia.

Time travel isn't as convenient as people make it out to be.

 

[BlackOsprey]

But... the whole point behind anything that Xehanort does in relation to his vessels is to suppress whatever personality that might be in the body so that he can have total control. Why would he be keeping the heart of someone whose body was destroyed over ten years ago? And why bother giving that heart a new body just to go through the trouble of evicting it from control?

Xehanort might have the most complicated contingency plans in recent video game history, but he doesn't seem to be the type to purposefully do things that won't help reach his goal in any way.

I'm willing to bet that the main reason why the Norts didn't use KH1 Riku-Ansem was because that particular entity is unreliable. Remember that Riku was able to win back enough control to literally stop Ansem in his tracks. Can't have anything less than total control for the new Org, right?

 

[LightAndOblivion]

But... the whole point behind anything that Xehanort does in relation to his vessels is to suppress whatever personality that might be in the body so that he can have total control. Why would he be keeping the heart of someone whose body was destroyed over ten years ago? And why bother giving that heart a new body just to go through the trouble of evicting it from control?

Xehanort might have the most complicated contingency plans in recent video game history, but he doesn't seem to be the type to purposefully do things that won't help reach his goal in any way.

Did you read my earlier comment? I said if he could easily give someone who may still exist in the present like Vanitas some vessel of his own whether it be a replica shell or whatever, then it would save him the trouble of having to go through the loops on having to use yet again another vessel through time travel. Ansem and Xemnas may not even exist in the present anymore hence why time travel would be needed to get them presumably since whatever they had left over would have went back to Master Xehanort and Terra wherever he may be. Vanitas wouldn't have to give back anything. He would still have his heart which is why he still has a presence in the present as Nomura heavily implied.

It would explain Vanitas' appearance in DDD with Young Xehanort. He has no body right now. That was confirmed. What wasn't confirmed was him not having his Nortified heart which YX may be carrying around with him for whatever reason. Are we going to ask YX why carry around the heart instead of picking up his past version?

We don't even know if Xehanort kept Vanitas' heart around for a decade. He could have easily been wandering around in the Realm Of Sleep and the Norts just so happened to find him there or wherever he was hanging.

Xehanort only needs the vessels around for his darkness puppets to clash with the 7 lights. After that happens and the X-blade is forged, none of them matter. He's not keeping any of them long term.

 

[BlackOsprey]

I think replicas are pretty much out of the question as of now. Remember that the only replicas that we know of were both created by Vexen's replica program, which pretty much went of the rails when the icy creep died, and the only long-lasting result, Xion, turned out to be an unstable being with frequent fainting spells and volatile memory-based issues.

Put a heart fragment in one of those, and who knows what could happen? I don't think Xehanort has the time or interest to test that out. Too risky to just do it and hope for the best.