• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Coincidence? (Not sure where this leads)



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Jfighter

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
116
Birth by Sleep.

I was reading some notes I took a little while ago on a book by Joseph Campbell (American, I think) analyzing mythology and various heroes. Interesting thing is that he equates the death of a hero with sleep. (One of the pre-reqs is acknowledgement of death. Xemnas shows this during his last bit of conversation with Sora and Riku in KH2 Realm of Nothingness, but that isn't the point) The cycle of heroes is one of Birth, Death, and Rebirth. From every Death in the cycle comes a Birth of some sort (death of childhood causes the birth of adulthood and such). Thus, Birth by Sleep. The sleep that Campbell analyzes is that of the hero going into a death-like state until it is time to complete his/her destiny. The Birth By Sleep promo mentions "no coincidence in Fate". Fate = Destiny.

Birth by Sleep, the start of something from the death of something else. The initiation of fate; the end of TAV's adventure results in the Birth of SRK's adventure; the fall of the Unbirths results in the rise of the Heartless and Nobodies; everything in Birth by Sleep does not set the stage of KH, but it leads DIRECTLY to it. Without the ideas/events of BBS, KH could not occur.

Not sure where to go from there to launch into a long magnificent theory, so I won't try. Anybody can use this if it fits into one of their theories.

Or, I might be psycho and this could just be a coincidence (although unlikely as it is a prequel).

Comment as you wish, please no calling me an imbecile :23: .
 

NoBoDy HeRo777

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
382
Location
i know...... but you dont. thats the fun part.
that is crazy how much thought u put into that !!!!!!! REP 4 U!!!! anyway u could use that to explain the sora/ven/roxas controversy........ somehow because if you came up with that then you should definitely be able to tie it to the sora ven roxas thing through the "COMPLETE HIS/HER DESTINY" thing
 

zexyishsmexy

New member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
254
Age
33
That does make sence, and who knows...SOMEthing inspires EVERYTHING. maybe TN has read a theory similar to Joseph Campbell's?
 

Zeagal

Lick It Good
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
4,051
Age
32
Location
Breaking Stuff
The thing that gets me excited about this is that it also sets the stage for at least one of TAV to return. I wonder who it will be.
 

zexyishsmexy

New member
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
254
Age
33
The thing that gets me excited about this is that it also sets the stage for at least one of TAV to return. I wonder who it will be.
if everyones speculation is correct, hasn't terra technically already returned, and fallen after his several rebirths?
 

Zeagal

Lick It Good
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
4,051
Age
32
Location
Breaking Stuff
Yes if the assumptions are true but his situation wouldn't be what I call death-like. Aqua and Ven both better fit that category as it stands now.
 

Karn1254

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
136
Location
Nova Scotia Canada
Mr. jfighter I hope you continue to remain active on these forums for a while and create more theories like this. It's so refreshing to see something unique and also constructive come out of the sea of "Terra is Xehanort" and other repeat theories, so I just wanted to thank you for that and keep it up.

Now I will also enjoy contributing, I really liked the way this supports the possible death of Ven and possibly his rebirth in Sora. I also think that since Nomura has stated "Unversed are the opposite of human life" (one would think that interpreted ONE way that could mean death) that this theory might support some unversed theories as well, I dunno what do you guys think?
 

ROXAS_32

Lobo Solitario
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
2,334
Awards
11
Location
NY
Website
www.twitter.com
Birth by Sleep.

I was reading some notes I took a little while ago on a book by Joseph Campbell (American, I think) analyzing mythology and various heroes. Interesting thing is that he equates the death of a hero with sleep. (One of the pre-reqs is acknowledgement of death. Xemnas shows this during his last bit of conversation with Sora and Riku in KH2 Realm of Nothingness, but that isn't the point) The cycle of heroes is one of Birth, Death, and Rebirth. From every Death in the cycle comes a Birth of some sort (death of childhood causes the birth of adulthood and such). Thus, Birth by Sleep. The sleep that Campbell analyzes is that of the hero going into a death-like state until it is time to complete his/her destiny. The Birth By Sleep promo mentions "no coincidence in Fate". Fate = Destiny.

Birth by Sleep, the start of something from the death of something else. The initiation of fate; the end of TAV's adventure results in the Birth of SRK's adventure; the fall of the Unbirths results in the rise of the Heartless and Nobodies; everything in Birth by Sleep does not set the stage of KH, but it leads DIRECTLY to it. Without the ideas/events of BBS, KH could not occur.

Not sure where to go from there to launch into a long magnificent theory, so I won't try. Anybody can use this if it fits into one of their theories.

Or, I might be psycho and this could just be a coincidence (although unlikely as it is a prequel).

Comment as you wish, please no calling me an imbecile :23: .

this really interesting..... kudos to you :cool:
 

SoRoxas

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
7
Pretty interesting connection. Roxas' existence was made through Sora's death-like state when he released his heart and rebirth when he got reunited with Kairi. so next would just be to see how Ven's death/sleep connects with Sora.
 

Raiinu K.D.

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
269
Awards
4
I like what you're saying here.

It's like reincarnation... only, it's an adventure that is being reborn, not a person. :]

Oh, and fate =/= destiny. They're similar/related, but that's a bad mistake to make, confusing the two. <_<
 

SilentTrinity

Master of the ECKKK
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
3,492
Age
30
Location
In the world of Change.
Ven's death = Sora's keyblade
white light in first game = Ven giving his keyblade or something like it

Aqua=???
Terra=???

i like this theory very interesting it makes so much mores sense to the entire story, well at least to a part of it.
^ is just a theory i made up, not sure its right though...
 

ventus12

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
207
yea i luv this theory and it all ties with birth of new adventure and such

but since u have birth and rebirth could that mean this could explain why ven look like roxas?

like what is TAV death spurs the birth in SRK adventure but venplays a role wit sora like some said before the white light could be ven giving sora the keyblade and doing sum fuse which takes form as soras nobody which is y they may look alike....just a though lol
 

Oracle Spockanort

written in the stars
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
35,652
Awards
96
Age
32
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
This is pretty well thought out. You are definitely on to something, but now it leaves the question if Nomura is just as clever and thoughtful as your analysis.

It can relate a lot to what we know of KH as of right now as well. Sora went to sleep to regain his memories and awoke older on the cusps of adulthood. Sora was also asleep when he awoke to his new destiny. Xion slept as she approached the completion of her role. Sleep and rebirth are very big. Of course the term death wouldn't be related to KH but it does fit with the theme of sleep and..all that stuff...
 

Sign

trapped in revamp hell
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
17,751
Awards
36
Wow. This could explain so much in the future of KH (no, not the section of the forums; I mean the series itself).
 

Reverie

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
1,547
Awards
4
That is really well thought out. I actually see it happening and it could do a lot for the future games.
 

Jfighter

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
116
I would love to assemble this into a complete theory, but I have not played CoM, nor Days. Thus, I feel unequipped to tackle the project. So bits and pieces will have to do:

Something else that Campbell pointed out in his book, that Nomura seemed to capitalize on in KH, is that water (especially lakes/oceans) is representative of the unknown reaches of the subconscious and the hidden power there. In the KH openning cutscene, it shows Riku in the ocean and Sora on the shore, and the subsequent underwater seperation, and the discovery of the Station of AWAKENING (of Power to wield the Keyblade? perhaps the re-awakening of Ven??). Also, Roxas appears in the KH2 initial scene underwater, where I finds the platform as SRK SLEEPS on the shore. So in a way, Roxas was born from the Sleep of SRK. I always thought that the intro scenes were highly symbolic, but what if they hold the key to BBS?

If we run with this course, then Roxas as always been in Sora's subconscious, and that further confirms an EXTREMELY deep connection between Ven and Sora. Perhaps it was a transfer of knowledge, but that would imply that Sora would wield the Keyblade reverse-grip, like Ven. So, this confirms that Sora has dominant control, and Ven would be an influence, rather than a controlling factor; much like Roxas merely merged with Sora with no specific effects (other than Final Form). Ven's extent of influence would be determined by a comparison of Young Sora in BBS and the current Sora from KH1/2/CoM. It may be possible that the Keyblade went to Sora, rather than Riku, because of Ven's subconscious presence, encouraging the idea that if TAV had not failed (to some extent) in their quest, then SRK would not be needed. Also, Ven's presence would be what customized the look of Roxas. The Nobody is "the strong human will and Soul to keep the Body animated", correct? Perhaps that is only part of the truth. None of the Nobodies look exactly like their Somebodies, so perhaps it animates a type of self-image stored by the strong human will, so when Sora's Nobody was made, it accessed the portion of the subconscious that Ven dominated.

How Ven got into Sora's subconscious is up to debate. I have absolutely no idea how Nomura will get him in there.

P.S.
i doubt that Mr. N will make the same connection unless he is best friends with that campbell guy
Campbell died a while ago (80's, I think), but his works are still around. Also, he had some major interview with Bill Moyer (Power of Myth). But, I am sure that Campbell is not the only one who put this together (he cited Freud a bit as support).

The Book I read is called The Hero with a Thousand Faces if anybody wants to look at it (it is a bit slow at times to trudge through).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top