Chi and the Anti Black Coat Nightmare



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Oathkeyper97

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Alright, so I think I remember someone mentioned this in another part of the forums, and I've been thinking about it lately. I'm making this thread just to make sure I have everything straight and I'm not misunderstanding anything.

So we learned toward the end of Chi that the Dark Chirithy actually belonged to the Player. The Player has a Spirit Chirithy, but the darkness that had been cultivated in the Player's heart gave birth to a Nightmare Chirithy. The MoM says in Back Cover that a Spirit will turn dark and become a Nightmare, but here we see that the Nightmare is in fact a whole separate being that comes from the Player's own darkness.

Now, there has always been a bunch of theories and conversations surrounding the ABCN, but it seems to me that we can arrive at a pretty definitive answer. When Riku dove into Sora's dream, the Sleeping Worlds were split in two, or rather an entire other version of the world was created, with Riku's version nested inside Sora's version. Riku takes on the role of a Dream Eater - specifically, a Spirit that protects Sora. However, Xehanort and the New Org. put Sora to sleep immediately after touching down in TWTNW in the real world. As he sleeps, his heart starts becoming consumed by the darkness as per the plan, and Riku, still in Sora's dream, tries to help him. It is at that moment that the ABCN appears.

Given what we learned from Chi, would it be safe to say that the ABCN is simply a "Nightmare Riku" born from Sora's darkness, just as the "Nightmare Chirithy" was born from the Player's darkness? You can even see the tendrils of darkness come out of Sora and form the ABCN! If this is the case, I gotta say that's pretty cool. Also, my brother pointed out that, once again, Riku's enemy is himself, or rather his dark self.

And one more thing: The MoM nor the Foretellers ever use the words "Dream Eater", only Spirit and Nightmare. Does this mean that Spirits and Nightmares are the creatures themselves, and the phrase Dream Eater is just a descriptor for the role that they carry out? When DDD first introduces Dream Eaters, they are described as being creatures in the Sleeping Worlds that exist naturally, like Pureblood Heartless exist in the RoD. But then Back Cover shows that Spirits were originally created by the MoM, existing in the real world. So it seems like Spirits and Nightmares were made to be capable, but not restricted to, existing in the Sleeping Worlds. Of course, Yen Sid, even with all his exposition-y wisdom, wouldn't know about the Pre-Keyblade War events that we see in Back Cover. Anyway, it's looking like the rest of Unchained Chi and even KH3 will continue to expand on all of this Dream Eater stuff.

And hoooooly crap I just wrote a lot. Meanwhile, I have an essay sitting on my desktop that I've barely started working on. Anyhoodle, just wanted to write this to get it out there and start some discussion/clarification/correction. Hopefully most of this makes sense and I haven't jumbled the lore too much.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Yes, exactly, the Anti-Back Coat is the Nightmare "Counterpart" to Riku's Spirit Dream Eater, they have their emblems at the exact same spot on their backs, are the exact same height and the ABC even uses a similar battle stance.

As for X Back Cover and the "creation" of Chirithy one has to remember that we do not yet know anything definite about where the world of Daybreak Town actually is located and what kind of reality there is.
In Browser-Chi the Nightmare Chirithy says something about "let's meet in another dream" and Browser-Chi and Unchained X eventually diverging from each other also hints that we as the audience are not simply watching a single waking world taking place in real time here, aka we do not see the actual past of the era of the Keyblade War but possibly a Dream Recreation of it.
 

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In Browser-Chi the Nightmare Chirithy says something about "let's meet in another dream" and Browser-Chi and Unchained X eventually diverging from each other also hints that we as the audience are not simply watching a single waking world taking place in real time here, aka we do not see the actual past of the era of the Keyblade War but possibly a Dream Recreation of it.
I like the theory that Chi/Unchained Chi are going to turn out to be someone in the present either reading a Book of Prophecies or dreaming about it.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I like the theory that Chi/Unchained Chi are going to turn out to be someone in the present either reading a Book of Prophecies or dreaming about it.
DDD shows us Riku and Sora (technically only Sora, as Riku is in Sora's own dreams) entering and participating in dreams of worlds from the past (namely the events of a world before it fell to Darkness before KH 1 happens) and Nomura himself stated in the May 2012 Famitsu interview that it is coincidence in which sleeping world you first land when you enter the Realm of Sleep:
Famitsu said:
— The setup certainly was different and trickier than before. In their travels this time they were essentially supposed to go to the worlds shut by sleep, but in the end, an entirely different world sets the stage.
Nomura: There are other worlds shut by sleep, from the start which ones they would go to was not decided. Even Yen Sid didn’t know which worlds they would go to. Amidst that, they were guided by two members of Organization XIII to the World That Never Was.
Note also how Nomura mentions "other worlds shut by sleep", implying there are many more beyond those we actually see and visit in DDD itself.
It is not impossible that one of these is Daybreak Town, or rather, the heart of Daybreak Town which is asleep, much like the hearts of Naminé, Roxas, Xion and Ventus are also asleep.
 

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I like the theory that Chi/Unchained Chi are going to turn out to be someone in the present either reading a Book of Prophecies or dreaming about it.
I always thought it was, we play as it was. And it's our Player telling the story of the Keyblade War to Sora, based on certain things they say like
Player said:
I thought the end was going to a tragic scene, where everything was burned to nothing
Implied they are telling it to someone, probably to Yen Sid, Sora, or everyone.
 

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Not really, I mean, yeah, what Player says does imply that, but I've seen that used in many Anime, like in Detective Conan.
In the first episode Ran says something like: "I still can't explain why, but… the moment Shinichi left, I felt piercing pain in my heart. It was as if he'd disappear forever. It was as if I'd never see him again.", but she doesn't tell the story to anyone.

I dunno why I'm even giving an example xD Just trying to say it doesn't necessarily have to mean they're telling someone
 

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Not really, I mean, yeah, what Player says does imply that, but I've seen that used in many Anime, like in Detective Conan.
In the first episode Ran says something like: "I still can't explain why, but… the moment Shinichi left, I felt piercing pain in my heart. It was as if he'd disappear forever. It was as if I'd never see him again.", but she doesn't tell the story to anyone.

I dunno why I'm even giving an example xD Just trying to say it doesn't necessarily have to mean they're telling someone
I guess it could just be down to them not having anyone during that moment in time. But then, the Player might be a more detective-ish character. But can we just talk about how Sora fell to darkness so easily? I mean he has...Like the light of 4 people...But also the darkness of 4 people...
 

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I guess it could just be down to them not having anyone during that moment in time. But then, the Player might be a more detective-ish character. But can we just talk about how Sora fell to darkness so easily? I mean he has...Like the light of 4 people...But also the darkness of 4 people...
Well, to be super precise, there is no darkness in Ventus, lol.
I think the main reason Sora almost "fell" to darkness is that he was tricked. He would've never given in, and he didn't know or understand that he was walking straight into a never-ending dream that would swallow him up. He didn't fall to darkness, he fell to the kindness in his own heart, and his deep wish to reach for the people whose pain he's bearing.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I guess it could just be down to them not having anyone during that moment in time. But then, the Player might be a more detective-ish character. But can we just talk about how Sora fell to darkness so easily? I mean he has...Like the light of 4 people...But also the darkness of 4 people...
I actually doubt that the "Player"-avatar has anything crucial to do with it storywise.

What exactly was "easily" in Sora's fall to the Darkness?
He had the massive pain and suffering of more than three other hearts thrown at him in a potentially dangerous environment which slowly but surely eroded and overwhelmed his heart, the battle with Xemnas proving to be the last straw.
Over the whole course of DDD Sora's heart was taken apart bit-by-bit with chip damage (all the issues with i.e. Rinzler/Tron, Young Xehanort's teasing and trolling throughout the worlds etc.) and the "heavy punches" came then in the World that Never Was with the hearts lying in suffering sleep.

Riku imploring Sora to not follow those dreams was not because Riku didn't want for Sora to help those suffering, but because he knew that it was the wrong time and the wrong way to do so.


Well, to be super precise, there is no darkness in Ventus, lol.
I think the main reason Sora almost "fell" to darkness is that he was tricked. He would've never given in, and he didn't know or understand that he was walking straight into a never-ending dream that would swallow him up. He didn't fall to darkness, he fell to the kindness in his own heart, and his deep wish to reach for the people whose pain he's bearing.
That too, yea.

More or less, it is exactly as Data-Naminé in Re: Coded warned about.
Handled the wrong way, the massive pain and sadness of those connected to Sora could potentially overwhelm his heart.
Xehanort knew about this fact too and instructed Xemnas, Young Xehanort and Xigbar make exactly this come to pass.

One can even see the strain put on Sora's heart in his behaviour and movements the further he goes and the more suffering he is confronted with.
At first with Naminé there's only confusion and a vague feeling that something is not right, then comes Xion and the "tear", then Roxas whose memories and pain actually give Sora a seizure and have him lash out in anger at those responsible, he even says "Not again" when feeling the pain rushing through his heart.
Then comes the sequence with the warping Terra/Riku and Aqua/Kairi were Sora gets Ven's pain thrown on-top of all he already had to shoulder at that point, and one can tell he's starting to falter as he can only "run" in slow motion and is about to lose control.
Then Riku's pleas almost reach him and for some reason this triggers Sora's own memory of his meeting with Aqua (Xigbar does state in the next scene that "he" almost woke Sora up, referring to Riku) which is then hijacked by Ansem SoD who appears on the beach and throws Sora back, foiling Riku's attempts to wake him and fighting him shortly after.
Thinking they already have Sora completely on the hook, Xigbar does his little exposition speech including the "I'm half Xehanort"-stuff with Xemnas chiming in about how Xigbar and he tricked and lied to the Organisation to begin with and how exactly hearts are born and can be nurtured.
Sora however proves that he still has some power left in him, resulting in that famous scene of everyone (except Naminé and Axel/Lea) standing around him, causing Xigbar to make a run for it while Xemnas prepares to wear that last bit of power left down by a fight, which he successfully does.
 

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(Xigbar does state in the next scene that "he" almost woke Sora up, referring to Riku)
Which is also another prove that this whole "falling" or "not falling" didn't have much to do with Sora giving into the darkness in any way, but rather just listening to what his heart tells him, or, in this case, his friend(s).
 

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Which is also another prove that this whole "falling" or "not falling" didn't have much to do with Sora giving into the darkness in any way, but rather just listening to what his heart tells him, or, in this case, his friend(s).
Exactly, if one wants to put it really short, Sora did not "fall" or "gave in" to the Darkness of his own volition, he was forcefully "drowned" in it by an elaborate scheme designed exactly for this purpose.
 

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Note also how Nomura mentions "other worlds shut by sleep", implying there are many more beyond those we actually see and visit in DDD itself.
It is not impossible that one of these is Daybreak Town, or rather, the heart of Daybreak Town which is asleep, much like the hearts of Naminé, Roxas, Xion and Ventus are also asleep.
I always found it confusing how Daybreak Town could be in the realm of sleep. I can come up with an explanation to it, but it is a bit of a stretch. Think about this: in the first iteration of the universe's realm of light, all worlds were one, a giant expanse known to us only as Daybreak Town. Obviously, this land is much larger than a single town, but this is where the main conflict lies. The keyblade war inevitably happens, and the battle is so radical that it eradicates time and space. However, the light present in the hearts of children (I think the game means dandelions) was enough to re-boot the universe, and in this rebooting the world was broken up into hundreds of thousands of worlds, completely disconnected, and the keyblade wielders were tasked with keeping the balance so that another keyblade war never happened again. Now, let's look past this; where did the keyblade war happen? Well, it must have been daybreak town, right? In fact, every single world in all of space is daybreak town. Is the world called this because it just addresses the one town in the game? Does the land have another name? If so, I want to know what it is (to expand the lore a bit). So, the next question is: Each world now has their own heart, and we can safely assume that this was also the case in the age of fairytales. So... if daybreak town is dreaming, does that mean the main part of the war was just consumed by sleep but every other world got out safe? It's just confusing, since that world encompassed all worlds, to believe that daybreak town somehow was left sleeping, reviewing the events of its inevitable demise, yet the rest of the universe had it easy... somehow? Maybe daybreak town is being recreated by Maleficent dreaming it up, since she got her hands on one of the books of prophecies, or something? I don't know, throwing a lot of ideas out right now, I'm just saying it's confusing that this town got its own world's heart to dream while all other worlds got re-booted into existence. Ugh, Kingdom Hearts sometimes.
 
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