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Body, Heart and Soul



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Jacob Twilight

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Well, according to my theory, a shell is that very thing, a heart seperated from a body and a soul. So, a "NEO" wouldn't be much different.

Btw, I like your consciousness idea of Body, Heart and Soul. Fits into my one rather nicely, I think, and helps explain the Orgainisation better. I didn't think of a body that way, but yes, a zombie would tend to be rather monotonous, wouldn't he?

And thanks for Zexion's element. I found out Luxord was water, and couldn't figure out what element Zexion could be.
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Jacob Twilight said:
Well, according to my theory, a shell is that very thing, a heart seperated from a body and a soul. So, a "NEO" wouldn't be much different.

Btw, I like your consciousness idea of Body, Heart and Soul. Fits into my one rather nicely, I think, and helps explain the Orgainisation better. I didn't think of a body that way, but yes, a zombie would tend to be rather monotonous, wouldn't he?

And thanks for Zexion's element. I found out Luxord was water, and couldn't figure out what element Zexion could be.
actually demyx is water so
1.??????
2.??????
3.Xaldin-wind
4.Vexen-ice
5.Lexeaus-earth
6.Zexion-??????
7.??????
8.Axel-fire
9.Demyx-water
10.Luxord-??????
11.Larxene-electricity
12.Marluxia-nature
13.??????
 

AinzX

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Jacob Twilight said:
After reading alot of refrences in KH, KH:CoM and snippets here and there, I think I've figured out the deal with shells, hearts and whatnot. Feel free to comment on it.

In the world of Kingdom Hearts, a person (or being capable of intelligent thought) consists of three major parts: A body, a soul, and a heart.

Body- Simply put, the body is the vessel in which the body and soul are contained and sustained. Without it, you will surely perish.

Soul- This is a person's spirit. It is the embodiment of thought, personality and ambition/desire. It is the core of those things which make a person who they are.

Heart- Possibly the most complex part of a person, it consists of a person's emotions, inner strength and memories, and is both an anchor to the world and a powerful energy source. It also controlls your ability to distinguish good and evil.

However, it must be noted that the heart is not the single most important part of a person. If you lose your heart, your body and soul sent to a place between worlds, but your heart sinks into darkness, forgetting everything. You can continue living, but you are reduced to a life without emotion, without any memories but basic ones (aka, no memories from the heart). Without a heart, you are reduced to a half-life, consisting of merly a body and a soul. This half life is commonly refered to as a shell. If a heart is recovered, it is possible to revive a shell back into a normal being.

Since shells are lacking hearts, they know neither good nor evil, light nor dark. However, since their souls remain, they are often ambitious, or at least the ones we have seen were. As we already know, every member of the XIII Organisation are/were shells- Yes, even Axel. Also, to losely quote that same infamous member: "We're nobodies... when we die, we become nothing."

With this information, it is clear to see one simple thing- BHK is not Sora's shell!! To have a shell, Sora would have had to have lost his heart permamently. In saying shells are sent to the world-inbetween, I don't mean that normal beings with hearts cannot live there also. Ansem said himself that to wield a Keyblade, you must have a powerful heart. Therefore, BHK must have a heart. Ipso Factso.

I might add more later. Feel free to express your opinion.
I have been working on a similar theory/concept but this clearly summarises things and to this and I completely agree with you. Keep up the good work!!!
But like all theories, one branches of after the other, an enigma wrapped within another - this shows how KHII will be relating to the story and nature of the game. This is like one step through a barrier with many others to go through
Also, I agree with you saying how an Order member's attribute relates metaphorically to their character both their strengths and weaknesses- e.g 'Ice vanishing when applying heat' - A representation of Axel killing Vexen - and electricity (lightning) being uncontrollable and compassionless and in a sense manipulative - Larxene

Also, to continue with these theories here's something I will leave you -

"As you move closer to the light, the greater your shadow will become" (consequencely, as you move closer to a shadow, it begins to fade - replaced by light
along with
"Within the deepest depths of darkness there is light"

How might these relate to Sora and Riku philisophically, will they determine Sora's future?
 
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Jacob Twilight

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Exactly. If there is no darkness, there is no light, mainly because you have nothing to compare it to. Plus, where there is darkness, there is light- that's why, in the deepest darkness lies the greatest light: Kingdom Hearts. It's also why a heart seperated from it's body sinks into darkness: It is the heart's nature to return to the light.
 

Einon SAMA

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Im not so sure that Light is the Heart's true essence anymore.. I mean witht he introduction to role of 'Twilight'. If anything, Twilight should be the Heart's true essence, and where it should return. You said it yourself. There is always light and darkness in your Heart...no matter how pure it is..and it just seems fitting (to me) that Twilight is where its happenin.
 

Don Daada

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good theory, but i don't believe bhk has anything to do with sora. I believe he is just another keyblade weilder, such as sora. I believe him and sora have the same destiny, and that in kh2 they might cross paths towards that destiny. Who came up with the idea that bhk is a shell of sora neway??
 

Jacob Twilight

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Don Daada said:
good theory, but i don't believe bhk has anything to do with sora. I believe he is just another keyblade weilder, such as sora. I believe him and sora have the same destiny, and that in kh2 they might cross paths towards that destiny. Who came up with the idea that bhk is a shell of sora neway??
People who didn't understand the facts. That's why I wrote this. But BHK definitly has some connection to Sora- BHK is shown defending him, and it is his home which is on the other side of Sora's heart. There's definitly something.

And einon_san, from my knowledge, all hearts basiclly come from Kingdom Hearts, the heart of all worlds. Since Kingdom Hearts is Light, then light is a heart's true essence. Ansem believed it was darkness, simply because Kingdom Hearts is surrounded by darkness. There is always both light and darkness, but Twilight, twilight is the balance, the perfect harmony of those two powers. Only shells, beings without hearts, and strong hearted people with control over their darkness and light, like Riku, can hope to walk the path of Twilight- shells only manage it because they have no heart, thus begrudge both light and darkness, and end in Twilight by default.
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Jacob Twilight said:
People who didn't understand the facts. That's why I wrote this. But BHK definitly has some connection to Sora- BHK is shown defending him, and it is his home which is on the other side of Sora's heart. There's definitly something.

And einon_san, from my knowledge, all hearts basiclly come from Kingdom Hearts, the heart of all worlds. Since Kingdom Hearts is Light, then light is a heart's true essence. Ansem believed it was darkness, simply because Kingdom Hearts is surrounded by darkness. There is always both light and darkness, but Twilight, twilight is the balance, the perfect harmony of those two powers. Only shells, beings without hearts, and strong hearted people with control over their darkness and light, like Riku, can hope to walk the path of Twilight- shells only manage it because they have no heart, thus begrudge both light and darkness, and end in Twilight by default.
actaully KH is darkness nomooura confirmed it in this interview

Question:
In the ending, Riku and the King are on the other side of the door. Why is that?

Nomura--As far as the King is concerned, he was on the other side from the beginning. He disappeared because he went to the world on the other side in order to find one of the two keys. There, he has his own adventure in the same way as Sora. As for Riku: his body stolen by Ansem, his heart did not remain in this world. The other side of the door is, just as it appears, darkness. So Riku's heart went to the world on the other side, that is to say just as Ansem was saying at the end, the world of darkness. Thus, when Ansem disappears and Riku returns to his original body, he is in the world of darkness.
 

Jacob Twilight

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Yeah, it's the dark realm, but Kingdom Hearts rests within it. Mickey said so in COM.

"You've seen it too Riku: The far-off welcoming light beyond the darkness."

Kingdom Hearts is light, but it's being held captve by the world of darkness.
 

Einon SAMA

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Jacob Twilight said:
Yeah, it's the dark realm, but Kingdom Hearts rests within it. Mickey said so in COM.

"You've seen it too Riku: The far-off welcoming light beyond the darkness."

Kingdom Hearts is light, but it's being held captve by the world of darkness.

Ah Jacob...I couldn't have said it better myself. I do hope this clears up the whole "KH IS Darkness, Nomura said it himself" thing.

Beautiful, just beautiful!!
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Jacob Twilight said:
Yeah, it's the dark realm, but Kingdom Hearts rests within it. Mickey said so in COM.

"You've seen it too Riku: The far-off welcoming light beyond the darkness."

Kingdom Hearts is light, but it's being held captve by the world of darkness.
kingdom hearts aint light nomoura says it is the world of darkness meaning all of kh is dark
he is in the world of darkness.
he doidnt say he was in the world of light did he, i doubt it.
that is to say just as Ansem was saying at the end, the world of darkness.
he even says ansem is right and kh is the world of darkness the only reason there was light there was because of the quote in the deepest darkness there is always light and by what mickey says he is saying the same thing the welcoming light deep within the light
 

Jacob Twilight

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RikuHeroOfDark said:
kingdom hearts aint light nomoura says it is the world of darkness meaning all of kh is dark

he doidnt say he was in the world of light did he, i doubt it.

he even says ansem is right and kh is the world of darkness the only reason there was light there was because of the quote in the deepest darkness there is always light and by what mickey says he is saying the same thing the welcoming light deep within the light
I did not say they were in the world of light, did I? I said myself that they were in the world of darkness. Beyond the door was darkness, just as Nomura said, but Kingdom Hearts is light, being held captive by the deepest darkness. I repeat, Kingdom Hearts resides in the world of darkness, but it itself is light. Mickey was refering to Kingdom Hearts in that quote.

Kairi's grandmother's fairy tale was true: In the deepest darkness sleeps the purest light- and that light is Kingdom Hearts.
 

Einon SAMA

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Jacob Twilight said:
I did not say they were in the world of light, did I? I said myself that they were in the world of darkness. Beyond the door was darkness, just as Nomura said, but Kingdom Hearts is light, being held captive by the deepest darkness. I repeat, Kingdom Hearts resides in the world of darkness, but it itself is light. Mickey was refering to Kingdom Hearts in that quote.

Kairi's grandmother's fairy tale was true: In the deepest darkness sleeps the purest light- and that light is Kingdom Hearts.

Im gonna be a parrot and pretty much repeat what Jacob said.
RikuHeroOfDark,
What do you not understand about that? Nomura said that it was the world of Darkness. He never said that Kingdom Hearts was Darkness. It would be SO SO SO STUPID if Kingdom Heart was not Light as Sora said. I mean...the pure Light of Kingdom Hearts destroyed...the persuer of Darkness. What do you think that Light was? It was the Light of Kingdom Hearts.

"I KNOW now WITHOUT a doubt that Kingdom Hearts is LIGHT!!"

That is an important line, and was not thrown in there for the heck of it. It is pretty much our answer to what Kingdom Heart's nature is.
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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einon_san said:
Im gonna be a parrot and pretty much repeat what Jacob said.
RikuHeroOfDark,
What do you not understand about that? Nomura said that it was the world of Darkness. He never said that Kingdom Hearts was Darkness. It would be SO SO SO STUPID if Kingdom Heart was not Light as Sora said. I mean...the pure Light of Kingdom Hearts destroyed...the persuer of Darkness. What do you think that Light was? It was the Light of Kingdom Hearts.

"I KNOW now WITHOUT a doubt that Kingdom Hearts is LIGHT!!"

That is an important line, and was not thrown in there for the heck of it. It is pretty much our answer to what Kingdom Heart's nature is.
sora is an idiot and ansem is a genius nomoura cleary says ansem was right meaning sora was wrong and kh is darkness
that is to say just as Ansem was saying at the end, the world of darkness.
 

var1ables

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Okay san.... you don't deserve that title but w/e.
Question:
In the ending, Riku and the King are on the other side of the door. Why is that?

Nomura--As far as the King is concerned, he was on the other side from the beginning. He disappeared because he went to the world on the other side in order to find one of the two keys. There, he has his own adventure in the same way as Sora. As for Riku: his body stolen by Ansem, his heart did not remain in this world. The other side of the door is, just as it appears, darkness. So Riku's heart went to the world on the other side, that is to say just as Ansem was saying at the end, the world of darkness. Thus, when Ansem disappears and Riku returns to his original body, he is in the world of darkness.
There get over it. It is
 
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grim5.0 said:
Hey I posted Bhk was soras light side I brought that ages ago on the rikus twilight thread Dammit

:mad::mad:
But heart body and soul is a awsome therory thought it my self ounce, actuly just never thought of posting it

whats with the retarded size grim5.0?
anyway.. good work, i understand a bit more..
 

Einon SAMA

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Don't you get that Kingdom Hearts was being overun with Darkness? What is so hard to understand about that? Yes, Nomura said that Ansem was right about the world being of Dark. We do not disagree. Nomura said it!!! I mean, it is CLEAR that the WORLD was overrun with Darkness. Countless Heartless resided within the Door. However, Nomura did not say that Kingdom Hearts was Darkness. Kingdom Hearts was not the Supreme Darkness that Ansem thought. Hence his last words as he faded away into an oblivion. "..Light! But..but why?" Yes, the world was full of Supreme Darkness. Ansem was right about that part, but was wrong about thinking that Kingdom Hearts itself was Darkness. Sora was right about what Kingdom Hearts ACTUALLY was. So yes...KH (PURE LIGHT) was surrounded by Darkness in the world of (DARKNESS) How else do you explain the strong beam of Light that overtook Ansem? It wasn't just there for nothing ya know. It didn't just convienantly pop out for no reason. It was Kingdom Heart's True Essence, destroying a puppet of Darkness, and perhaps the forshadowing of how Sora might be able to control it.
 
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Einon SAMA

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pwn3d to the max said:
it is very elemtry actually. All darkness, even kingdom hearts, has light in it

Why would a world full Darkness allow a little Light that it contains to destroy the Seeker of Darkness? Makes no sense what-so-ever. Read my last post. It says why.
 
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