Anime/Manga ► Bleach - Thousand Year Blood War

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Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

I agree. I mean, they were all awful people and did a lot of horrible things. Going lied, stole and killed in life (but I guess if he was inhabiting a gigai or something then maybe as a Soul Reaper he could escape). Giriko killed his wife, also lied, stole and tried to commit acts of violence against good people (but I guess his wife was an accident). But ya know, I didn't think Tsukiyama died, I know it was a fatal injury and all, but when I saw Moe carry him away, I thought "Oh, Kubo's done it again" and when I saw him in the Soul Society I thought they granted him passage somehow; but still, horrible person.

Funny thing though, I had actually completely forgotten about Hell in this series. Everyone just seems to be going to the Soul Society these days.

Tsukiyama is dead until said otherwise I think given his appearance with Ganju plus the fact it takes special gates to let living material/people/bodies into the SS BUT EXACTLY! All of these people were freakin horrible! WHY AREN'T AT LEAST A FEW IN HELL!?
I mean okay I understand Yukio, Rurika and Jackie. These three didn't actually die. Riruka's greatest crime seemed to be her past incident of kidnap but wasn't Yukio at least indirectly responsible for his parents suicide? We dont know of Jackie's life outside the first fullbring awakening but she lost her powers or something anyway?
Giriko killed his wife to test his powers then last minute decided "oh sh*t I dont want her to die!" well too damn late! MURDER COMMITTED!

Then there's no telling what the hell Ginjo did in his completely unexplored vendetta of vengeance since defection. Tsuikishima being with him every step of the way would be involved in any of that shady business.
Wasn't it implied their shtick is going around stealing peoples fullbrings or something? Suifon also even said Ginjo killed many reapers in order to steal their powers in the past....

You'd think that of the three that died they'd be hell worthy or something. Kubo seems to forgot about hell outside Shrieker and that movie. lol

On a side note, you know what I don't get? How were Ginjo and Ichigo able to bring out their Zanpaku-to's without being in spirit form? Ginjo had a physical body when he died, and Ichigo was TOTALLY physical when Rukia gave him his powers back. So, if she somehow pushed him out, then where was Ichigo's body when he transformed?

Eh I take it to mean Ichigo was kicked out of his human body since he no longer had fullbring so his powers would manifest as his soul/reaper like spirit body. As for Ginjo I think, or at least I tell myself to lessen the pain of this narrative, that he's likely infused his reaper and fullbring powers into a singularity. Since he basically went from fullbring to bankai like bam.

Since you bring up Ichigo and WTF moments what the hell is even with his powers right now? I mean seriously what the flying diddly? Is he a reaper+quincy now or what? Hollow Ichigo became or rather was reforged into the true zangetsu using the "official" way with an asuachi so is the hollow powers gone?
From what I got of the whole ordeal was Ichigo's initial zanpakutou was similar to an arrancars. When he awakened his powers it just "bam!" formed. From there almost immediately Old Man Zangetsu took over trying to suppress Ichigo's powers.

I mean that's at least what makes sense to me since Arrancars form a zanpakuto from their hollow powers. Ichigo, for the longest time, was very hollow based. (Or maybe his fullbring formed the initial sword?)
Due to the imbalance of the two spirits and the bootleg zanpakuto Ichgio's powers were all over the place and as Ulquorra noted his powers were regularly fluctuate from weak to really really high. Plus all the times he hollowfied uncontrollably.

So now Ichigo has lost fullbring and hasn't used a mask since before mugetsu. The Old Man gave up his suppression and isn't trying to force being the center of power and Hollow Ichigo was reforged properly as a zanpakuto....sooooo seriously the diddly does he have now? Is hollow powers lost? Did he lose the quincy powers after the Old Man gave up his control?

I gave up caring about this but I mistakenly watched a few bleach videos AND NOW IT'S NAGGING AT ME. Ichigo is literally every freakin thing but only ever spams tenshos and masks. He doesn't even try to learn what hollow abilities he used to/might have, only used a quincy blut once after getting the powers through the most convoluted BS ever, and despite his apparent pride for his shinigami powers has never once tried learning the forms other abilities like Kido.

DOES THIS NOT BOTHER ANYONE ELSE EACH TIME THEY READ THIS SH*T?!.....Sorry I went off on a tangent....

 

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Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Well I'll truly be damned....three decent Bleach chapters close together...

So apparently the perma shikai was an assumption on the Gotei 13's part:

 

[spirit-of-light]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

This chapter was kind of okay. It's the Yammy fight 2.0 plus Hitsugaya, and all I can hope is this fight won't be settled off screen like Yammy's was, and Kenpachi gets his last hurah.

Well, this is as good as time as any, time for me Bleach rant.

First, a little history. I fell out of watching anime and reading manga for about five or six years (the only thing I kept up on was Naruto, and that was just out of habit). Then, on a whim, I decided to get back into it. With about a six year gap, there was a ton of great shows for me to catch up on. But, not knowing want to watch, and too lazy to look up what was good, I went back to finish the last series I remembered liking but not finishing. So I ended up marathoning Inuyasha (filler and all). After that, I looked anime that were similar to Inuyasha, and Bleach came up.

"Sixth Sense with swords? Sign me up."

And after watching the first few episodes I was hooked. The action, the style, the story, I loved everything about it. And when the Soul Society arc kicked in I fell in love with Bleach even more. Aizen's reveal as a villain was great, and genuinely took my by surprise. The fight between Byakuya and Ichigo is still one of my absolute favorites in all of anime, and one I will always go back to. But after the arc ended, I realized I had a ton of questions.

Why did Byakuya's wife die if she was a soul? What happens to someone in Soul Society if they die? Do they get reincarnated? Why is the afterlife in feudal japan? Why do they let Miyuri do so much horrible stuff (torture the Quincy, blow up his own men etc.)?

"Oh, I'm sure they'll answer most of those questions. There's like 300 episodes, they have to, right?"

That's what I thought. But little did I realize what was in store for me. The Arancar stuff started, Ichigo fights Yammy and Uqliorra, Orihime gets captured, Ichigo gets hollow powers, yadayadayada. But as the episodes went on, and more and more characters were introduced, a thought popped in my head.

"If any of these characters died, would I care?"

And I had to be honest. No. Even after Espada's back story's revealed, I just didn't care. The only one whose death I actually felt anything for was Ulqiorra's, and that was because I liked the flip of Ichigo becoming the monster. But the handful of characters that had any development at all stopped being important. Rukia had one good battle with the Espada, then nothing. Renji, who did get some development in the Soul Society arc, and was kind of cool, became a joke. Byakuya barely showed up, and that was just to kill nameless hollows, and one Espada I think. Instead, we go to hear the Espada's back story's, and why we should care about them. So much stuff about the Arancar's organization, how the ranking system worked, and how Nel's ranking didn't matter anymore. But after the Fake Karakura arc started, I realized that it didn't matter.

None of it mattered. All the intricacies of the Soul Society, and all the questions I had, didn't matter. Everything within Hueco Mundo, and everything with the Arrancar's, didn't matter. Even when the Espada started to die, I knew it didn't matter. And that was confirmed when Aizen came in and just one shotted all the captains. There was no point to any of the battles in Fake Karakura Town, and because of that no impact.

Also, quick tangent back to when the Arrancar arc started. Hitsugaya said that if Aizen brought thirteen Arrancar with him he would destory the Soul Society. When all it would've taken to beat them was Yammato going bankai. Which I don't even want to go down the road of captains not using bankai when they should've.

Anyway, back on track. At that point I'd given up on Bleach, I was basically there just to see it end. Then, when the final fight between Ichigo and Aizen, which wasn't that impressive, came and went. And then, just as I was about to give up, Aizen said "You've seen that thing!" What thing? The Soul King? And, just like that, Bleach got me back. I always assumed Aizen was just power hungry, but after that I wondered if there was more to it. So, I stayed.

But with Ichigo powerless, what was going to happen. And then the fullbringers came around. To be honest, aside from one interesting bit about the hollows (about how their masks are their hearts), it felt like filler. And I realized I fell into the same trap I did before. All these characters were introduced, and their backstories revealed, and in the end none of it mattered. It all served to get Ichigo's power back. Which all that would've taken was him getting stabbed with that sword, and poof, Soul Reaper Ichigo's back.

So, with bitter taste of the fullbringer arc in my mouth, the final arc of Bleach began. And it started with a bang. Though it took a handful of chapters to get going, once it started I was hooked, just like I was when the Soul Society arc started. And unlike the Arancar arcs, I could understand why the Quincy wanted a war, without needing their back stories. They were a race that was almost eradicated by the Soul Reapers, even though the Soul Reapers were justified in doing it, they had every right to want to return favor. There's actually a quote I love in the first few chapters, but too bad it was spoken by a throw away character.

"War occurs because both sides are just."

The Quincies were right to want revenge, and the Soul Reapers were right to want to survive. Just like in the Soul Society arc where Ichigo was right for wanting to save Rukia, and the reapers were right for wanting uphold their laws. The arc had so much promise. Characters were dying left and right, the Soul Society was getting wrecked, it felt like a war. Though, I will say more important characters should've died. But then the fighting died down, and the plot started kick in, or at least I though it would. There were a few good moments (Misaki's story, Unohana and Kenpachi, Rukia going bankai, Aizen), but there aren't enough to make me say this arc is amazing, or that this makes up for the 600+ chapters of nothing worth it, and I don't see that changing anytime in the foreseeable future. I could go on and on about the plot holes, power ups out of no where, Ichigo not using any of the powers he supposedly has, but I think this rant has gone on long enough.

I will follow Bleach to the end, after coming this far it would be a waste not to. It will always hold a special place in my heart, and I will recommend the Soul Society arc to anyone whose looking for a good shonen. But I will not say it's an amazing series. It's a terribly flawed series, with some good fights, a plot that throws so much at you, then turns around and it says that none of it mattered, and a cast so large that you're bound to find at least a few you like. So, that's my Bleach rant, and I hope I don't have to do another one by the end.

 

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Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

This chapter was kind of okay. It's the Yammy fight 2.0 plus Hitsugaya, and all I can hope is this fight won't be settled off screen like Yammy's was, and Kenpachi gets his last hurah.

I'm just hoping it ends fast. One of my biggest irks of this series is how drawn out Kubo makes shit. Like Mite once pointed out a good deal of the narrative annoyance would be gone if shit went at a decent pace.

Hell I'd wager most volumes could be done in a surprisingly small number of episodes due to the drawn out manga counterpart.

Well, this is as good as time as any, time for me Bleach rant.

First, a little history. I fell out of watching anime and reading manga for about five or six years (the only thing I kept up on was Naruto, and that was just out of habit). Then, on a whim, I decided to get back into it. With about a six year gap, there was a ton of great shows for me to catch up on. But, not knowing want to watch, and too lazy to look up what was good, I went back to finish the last series I remembered liking but not finishing. So I ended up marathoning Inuyasha (filler and all). After that, I looked anime that were similar to Inuyasha, and Bleach came up.

"Sixth Sense with swords? Sign me up."

And after watching the first few episodes I was hooked. The action, the style, the story, I loved everything about it. And when the Soul Society arc kicked in I fell in love with Bleach even more. Aizen's reveal as a villain was great, and genuinely took my by surprise. The fight between Byakuya and Ichigo is still one of my absolute favorites in all of anime, and one I will always go back to. But after the arc ended, I realized I had a ton of questions.

Why did Byakuya's wife die if she was a soul? What happens to someone in Soul Society if they die? Do they get reincarnated? Why is the afterlife in feudal japan? Why do they let Miyuri do so much horrible stuff (torture the Quincy, blow up his own men etc.)?

"Oh, I'm sure they'll answer most of those questions. There's like 300 episodes, they have to, right?"

That's what I thought. But little did I realize what was in store for me. The Arancar stuff started, Ichigo fights Yammy and Uqliorra, Orihime gets captured, Ichigo gets hollow powers, yadayadayada. But as the episodes went on, and more and more characters were introduced, a thought popped in my head.

"If any of these characters died, would I care?"

And I had to be honest. No. Even after Espada's back story's revealed, I just didn't care. The only one whose death I actually felt anything for was Ulqiorra's, and that was because I liked the flip of Ichigo becoming the monster. But the handful of characters that had any development at all stopped being important. Rukia had one good battle with the Espada, then nothing. Renji, who did get some development in the Soul Society arc, and was kind of cool, became a joke. Byakuya barely showed up, and that was just to kill nameless hollows, and one Espada I think. Instead, we go to hear the Espada's back story's, and why we should care about them. So much stuff about the Arancar's organization, how the ranking system worked, and how Nel's ranking didn't matter anymore. But after the Fake Karakura arc started, I realized that it didn't matter.

None of it mattered. All the intricacies of the Soul Society, and all the questions I had, didn't matter. Everything within Hueco Mundo, and everything with the Arrancar's, didn't matter. Even when the Espada started to die, I knew it didn't matter. And that was confirmed when Aizen came in and just one shotted all the captains. There was no point to any of the battles in Fake Karakura Town, and because of that no impact.

Also, quick tangent back to when the Arrancar arc started. Hitsugaya said that if Aizen brought thirteen Arrancar with him he would destory the Soul Society. When all it would've taken to beat them was Yammato going bankai. Which I don't even want to go down the road of captains not using bankai when they should've.

Anyway, back on track. At that point I'd given up on Bleach, I was basically there just to see it end. Then, when the final fight between Ichigo and Aizen, which wasn't that impressive, came and went. And then, just as I was about to give up, Aizen said "You've seen that thing!" What thing? The Soul King? And, just like that, Bleach got me back. I always assumed Aizen was just power hungry, but after that I wondered if there was more to it. So, I stayed.

But with Ichigo powerless, what was going to happen. And then the fullbringers came around. To be honest, aside from one interesting bit about the hollows (about how their masks are their hearts), it felt like filler. And I realized I fell into the same trap I did before. All these characters were introduced, and their backstories revealed, and in the end none of it mattered. It all served to get Ichigo's power back. Which all that would've taken was him getting stabbed with that sword, and poof, Soul Reaper Ichigo's back.

So, with bitter taste of the fullbringer arc in my mouth, the final arc of Bleach began. And it started with a bang. Though it took a handful of chapters to get going, once it started I was hooked, just like I was when the Soul Society arc started. And unlike the Arancar arcs, I could understand why the Quincy wanted a war, without needing their back stories. They were a race that was almost eradicated by the Soul Reapers, even though the Soul Reapers were justified in doing it, they had every right to want to return favor. There's actually a quote I love in the first few chapters, but too bad it was spoken by a throw away character.

"War occurs because both sides are just."

The Quincies were right to want revenge, and the Soul Reapers were right to want to survive. Just like in the Soul Society arc where Ichigo was right for wanting to save Rukia, and the reapers were right for wanting uphold their laws. The arc had so much promise. Characters were dying left and right, the Soul Society was getting wrecked, it felt like a war. Though, I will say more important characters should've died. But then the fighting died down, and the plot started kick in, or at least I though it would. There were a few good moments (Misaki's story, Unohana and Kenpachi, Rukia going bankai, Aizen), but there aren't enough to make me say this arc is amazing, or that this makes up for the 600+ chapters of nothing worth it, and I don't see that changing anytime in the foreseeable future. I could go on and on about the plot holes, power ups out of no where, Ichigo not using any of the powers he supposedly has, but I think this rant has gone on long enough.

I will follow Bleach to the end, after coming this far it would be a waste not to. It will always hold a special place in my heart, and I will recommend the Soul Society arc to anyone whose looking for a good shonen. But I will not say it's an amazing series. It's a terribly flawed series, with some good fights, a plot that throws so much at you, then turns around and it says that none of it mattered, and a cast so large that you're bound to find at least a few you like. So, that's my Bleach rant, and I hope I don't have to do another one by the end.

This is beautiful and probably speaks for a lot of us. I got into for the same reasons and the start up to the end of the SS arc was beautiful....then it slowly went downhill before speeding up in it's fall too shit.

One problem I felt was the shinigami way overstayed their damn welcome. Especially in anime filler. It was obvious these were the cashcows and animation studios and Kubo both cashed in on it. Right now I'm still debating on which arc is the worst, Fullbringer or Quincy.

When the show started it focused more on Ichigo and his human friends. This was the hook! These people Kubo never freakin fleshes out or uses unless Ichigo is in a slice of life easygoing chapter between battles. Instead we're constantly presented with shinigami.
Then you had aspects made but forgotten. Like really what does happen when a soul dies in the soul society? The anime, in filler, established a kinda cycle in which souls are reincarnated but the manga never touched on it. Then there's Hell. Movies be damned we had this one moment when a hollow was so evil in life he was dragged to hell upon defeat. WHY HAVEN'T WE SEEN MORE OF HELL? Not every hollow they kill can be a fucking innocent bystander in life!

Then we have recent arcs like Fullbringers....I mean just really? "Your mother is attacked by a hollow and lives so the residual reatsu is transferred to the child"? What kinda convoluted storytelling is this? If hollows left that much of a mark everything they fought or attacked would be part hollow and fullbringers would be EVERYWHERE.

Now we have the most recent "final" arc of Quincies. I honestly hate them. I hate this war, I hate this arc. Like you I just read it to see it end now and to see just how bad Kubo can do the plot for laughs. When we first heard of quincies it was just Uryu and not once did he ever display the abilities these people are. Not counting Bach granted gifts but things like blut or elemental powers like Bazz Bs fire and so on. How can blut be a standard ability when Ishida never once showed it before?
Furthermore how are these quincies even alive? The last war was 1000yrs ago yet the quincy extinction campaign was 200yrs ago? Why not just exterminate them in the first war? Are these quincies living people or just the dead souls of the original? Why would Bach call Uryu the "last" quincy in this world when there's Quincy Jesus Bach, his stern ritters, foot soldiers, and Uryu's father still around?

I mean yes they have a good reason FOR war but I honestly find this a rather stupid war. We were told they were extinct, should've left them extinct. Hell I'd have even settled for Uryu to have become a minor if not written out character after the SS arc due to his powers being permanently gone. To me it would've been a fine resolution for him to avenge his grandfather and with the loss of his powers decide to try and follow his grandfathers advice of seeing Ryukens side of the spectrum. To focus on the living.

Tbh if we was gonna go this war route I feel the final outcome should've been Aizen and his arrancar army. Not the sh*t we got in the Fake arc but something like what we have now with the quincies. Hollows are known to have diverse abilities and like quincies they hate the shinigami AND like the quincies the shinigami hunt these beings for actual legit reasons. Both hollows and quincies bring a threat of imbalance that needs to be kept in check. The shinigami are arrogant but think about it, not counting filler, just how many of them have you seen display a type of racial hatred for hollows or quincies (before this war)? To the shinigami it's just a matter of the world balance.

For this reason you could argue even the arrancars would be a decent army. They wouldn't even need flashbacks because they hate shinigami by default due to them hunting hollows. They literally need no other explanation for them to wage war with Aizen against them. Especially with fight loving ones like Grimmjow.

Then, yes I gotta say it again, Ichigo's powers....this honestly really fucking irks me. Why couldn't he have just been a human that gained these abilities rather than some messed up inter-species child? He feels OP and gets powers for the stupidest plot ploys like "memories" in his reiatsu or because his mother survived a hollow attack. He was already part freakin hollow the mother excuse wasn't needed.
Plus what does this say of his sisters? What they hell are they even? I'm sure Masaki's hollow passed to Ichigo but that's still a slew of powers his sisters could have with quincy, shinigami and fullbringer alone.

It's odd to say since I honestly like Hollow Ichigo, if anything he's been the only enjoyment in the series after SS arc, but I do truly feel that Kubo should've kept this simpler. Keep Ichigo a human who gained shinigami powers hybrid or take the route he did with his parents but keep him a shinigami-quincy hybrid.
With the latter route you could even keep the parental backstory. Just change the ending too let's say "Isshin is able to purify Masaki's soul of the hollow but to do so he has to transfer his powers into her in order to purify her of the hollow. This would stabalize her and free her of hollow influence although she'd still never be a "pure" quincy again. In turn Isshin would be forced to become human without his powers."
Literally keeping the same backstory which was honestly rather enjoyable yet keeping Ichigo's powers simpler.

Hell I guess I have an issue with powers in general. All the hollow hybrids and Ichgio and sh*t. I sincerely think it'd have been a smoother story if it was established that it's impossible to give other beings hollow powers. Realizing this Urahara gives up his research while Aizen deduces that if it's impossible to make other beings part hollow then maybe the reverse is possible thus spawning the Arrancars. (since they start out hollows and are shown to be far more stable than a being that's forced to hollowfy)

 

[spirit-of-light]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Oh, you just made me remember Hollow Ichigo. I miss that battle crazy psycho. It sucks he only showed up four of five times I think. And while I guess the whole him being Zangetsu kind of made sense. But the fact that he's apparently the bulk of Ichigo's power, yet it hasn't been confirmed if Ichigo can even hollowfy anymore, just irks me. And now there's the theory floating around that since there is no such thing as permanently released Zanpakuto, then Zangetsu was just in its unreleased state this whole time, and his Bankai may actually be his Shikai. Which, if true, has so many plot holes involved.

If you want to talk about the Shinigami hogging the lime light, did you ever read the old interviews where Kubo had plans for every one of Ichigo's classmates to have their own backstories, but (I can't remember exactly who, but it may have just been his editor at Jump at the time) told him to hurry up and introduce the Shinigami. There is even an extra chapter in one of the volumes that goes into Muzihiro. It wasn't very long, but it was interesting.

The Fullbringer arc, at least how I took it, was Kubo trying to go back to the days before the Soul Society arc. The problem with that was the scale of everything was so high, that it couldn't be taken back down. Why would we think any of it was a threat since all would take to beat them would be one lieutenant (hell, Renji didn't even get a scratch)? And, even if the scale wasn't broken (and still is), instead of fleshing out the other characters more, Kubo did what he does best and just introduces more. Chad gets a little development, Ichigo kind of, sort of does, but he just acts like the same Ichigo he always has. And the plot hole, oh god the plot holes. First, Ginjo's plan was to get revenge on the Society for lying to him, which I always thought was kind of a weak. And to do that he was going to use Ichigo's fullbring to take down THIRTEEN CAPTAINS, including Kenpachi and Yamamoto, with seven fulbringers. I wonder if he never said that aloud, because if he did he would realize how stupid it was.

But maybe that's just it. Maybe Bleach is just too far gone, and can never go back to being an amazing series again. I'm sure there'll be more amazing moments (Ichigo going full powered Bankai, Aizen finally getting out of that chair), but the story is just too screwed up, and the scale is so unbalanced that I don't think it can ever go back to the SS arc days.

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. And we came the conclusion that Kubo is good at coming with ideas. The zanpokutos, the espada, some of the powers, the soul society and how it works, all that stuff is interesting on its own. But when Kubo tries to make it all work together it just turns into a mess. Which is sad, because he can write, we've seen it done. And if he does do something else after Bleach is done, I hope its at least monthly and gives him time plot things out better. Because he's a good artist. I'll criticize Bleach's story all day, but there is rarely a panel that looks like trash (they may look empty, but not like trash).

And you actually made me think of a cool little what if. Instead of getting what we got, after the SS arc, have Ichigo go on standby, have all the shinigami leave Ichigo alone and be focused on Aizen and Hueco Mundo. That way we can have Ichigo do his thing, purify hollows with his friends, help ghosts cross over. And you can have some rule where he can't use Bankai so he doesn't go around one shoting everything. And on the other side you can have the shinigami deal with the espada, and have all their stories done. Then, slowly, have the two thread start to blend together so the can come together in one final battle.

 

[Zero Sora]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

So, I haven't read the manga since Juha Bach or Yhwach (or whatever the translators called him.) killed the Soul King, but changed his mind from wiping out existence, to becoming the new Soul King or whatever. So... what's happened since then? Anything good? Story still shitty and inconsistent? Because of his apparent plethora of mixed races, has Ichigo been revealed to be a god or something yet? I hear Zaraki has a Shikai, despite Kubo confirming years ago that Zaraki's zanpakutou was already permanently in it's Shikai state like Ichigo's. Lol Kubo, never change. Oh yeah, did anything happen with Hichigo? I remember him saying "If you ever lose control to me again, I'll come back and crush your head." then Ichigo lost control during his fight with Ulquiorra. I wonder if anything ever came from that threat.

 

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Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Oh, you just made me remember Hollow Ichigo. I miss that battle crazy psycho. It sucks he only showed up four of five times I think. And while I guess the whole him being Zangetsu kind of made sense. But the fact that he's apparently the bulk of Ichigo's power, yet it hasn't been confirmed if Ichigo can even hollowfy anymore, just irks me. And now there's the theory floating around that since there is no such thing as permanently released Zanpakuto, then Zangetsu was just in its unreleased state this whole time, and his Bankai may actually be his Shikai. Which, if true, has so many plot holes involved.

If you want to talk about the Shinigami hogging the lime light, did you ever read the old interviews where Kubo had plans for every one of Ichigo's classmates to have their own backstories, but (I can't remember exactly who, but it may have just been his editor at Jump at the time) told him to hurry up and introduce the Shinigami. There is even an extra chapter in one of the volumes that goes into Muzihiro. It wasn't very long, but it was interesting.

The Fullbringer arc, at least how I took it, was Kubo trying to go back to the days before the Soul Society arc. The problem with that was the scale of everything was so high, that it couldn't be taken back down. Why would we think any of it was a threat since all would take to beat them would be one lieutenant (hell, Renji didn't even get a scratch)? And, even if the scale wasn't broken (and still is), instead of fleshing out the other characters more, Kubo did what he does best and just introduces more. Chad gets a little development, Ichigo kind of, sort of does, but he just acts like the same Ichigo he always has. And the plot hole, oh god the plot holes. First, Ginjo's plan was to get revenge on the Society for lying to him, which I always thought was kind of a weak. And to do that he was going to use Ichigo's fullbring to take down THIRTEEN CAPTAINS, including Kenpachi and Yamamoto, with seven fulbringers. I wonder if he never said that aloud, because if he did he would realize how stupid it was.

But maybe that's just it. Maybe Bleach is just too far gone, and can never go back to being an amazing series again. I'm sure there'll be more amazing moments (Ichigo going full powered Bankai, Aizen finally getting out of that chair), but the story is just too screwed up, and the scale is so unbalanced that I don't think it can ever go back to the SS arc days.

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. And we came the conclusion that Kubo is good at coming with ideas. The zanpokutos, the espada, some of the powers, the soul society and how it works, all that stuff is interesting on its own. But when Kubo tries to make it all work together it just turns into a mess. Which is sad, because he can write, we've seen it done. And if he does do something else after Bleach is done, I hope its at least monthly and gives him time plot things out better. Because he's a good artist. I'll criticize Bleach's story all day, but there is rarely a panel that looks like trash (they may look empty, but not like trash).

And you actually made me think of a cool little what if. Instead of getting what we got, after the SS arc, have Ichigo go on standby, have all the shinigami leave Ichigo alone and be focused on Aizen and Hueco Mundo. That way we can have Ichigo do his thing, purify hollows with his friends, help ghosts cross over. And you can have some rule where he can't use Bankai so he doesn't go around one shoting everything. And on the other side you can have the shinigami deal with the espada, and have all their stories done. Then, slowly, have the two thread start to blend together so the can come together in one final battle.

To me Hichigo was such a huge wasted subplot. He was one of the few enjoyable things of the series after it went to shit at that. I loved seeing him appear for his psychotic outbursts only to be oddly insightful of Ichigo himself. Like pointing out the flaw of his bankai in the Byakuya battle or Ichigo not relying on "instinct".
I'll never believe Kubo had this true zangetsu thing thought out though. The only real allusion to it was Hichigo bluntly yelling to Ichigo repeatedly in their fight that he is zangetsu. Many try to point to the Zaraki fight but you only see that stuff looking back after the reveal.

I think the general theory or headcanon right now is that Ichigo doesn't need to hollowfy or that Hichigo is more zanpakuto than hollow now that he's been reforged with a true asauchi. Basically the idea is that his hollow power is channeled through the main big sword now bypassing the need of a mask. Which I wouldn't really mind but I'd like it explained.

I remember that interview tidbit and it still infuriates me. That editor is one of the causes for the shit it is now. Kubo is at greatest fault for how it's been handled though. I would've loved to see those backstories for his other friends. =/

I got the feeling at first but honestly looking back the Fullbringer arc felt like just a way to bring Ichigo back into his Shinigami powers. Only for him to decide he still has all these other powers later which kinda negates the initial purpose.
It truly was horrid for other reasons though. Your probably right about the scale but personally I dont think it's impossible to go back but just that Kubo lacks the talent to bring it back. It had already gone far down the sh*t creek by then.
Ugh Ginjo was just infuriating. "I want revenge because they was monitoring me with a piece of wood!" I mean REALLY? The flying diddly. If he had just been a dick who wanted to gain power that would've been a better excuse. Just think about it. A 17yr boy, lord knows how many years younger than Ginjo actually is, was more mature about the damn badge thing than he was.

It is too far gone. WAY too far gone. It's reached the point that usually requires a new start with reboots or alternate universes. I'd honestly like to see how the story was done if Kubo revisted it but with a monthly release rather than a weekly. It was Mite who mentioned it but I bet he'd at least do better with more time to plot his stories. Hopefully a month would also incline him to use less dragging out. He drags shit out for months which usually equate to a few minutes in the anime rendition.
I like your idea of two storylines converging but I doubt Kubo has the skill to manage it. I do feel he shouldn't have focused so much on shinigami and should've explored his ideas better. Like you said he does make GOOD ideas but falters in their use. Fullbring alone as a power, while heavily bullshit in how it's obtained, had a high versatile potential.

What would get me interested are ideas me and Mite swapped before. Like:

-Hollows. The hybrid stuff is nonsense. Establish that hollowfying is a runaway process. Urahara stops his research upon this realization while Aizen deduces if hollowfying is impossible the inverse is. Aka Arrancars are your only hollow-hybrids.

-For Godsake skip the fullbringer arc & fullbringers in general.

-As much as I love hollow Ichigo keep Ichigo simpler. If you want to make him a quincy+shinigami go with this route and slowly allude too it and build it up. Like Ichigo at times, similar to is hollowfying moments, display abilities not the norm too a shinigami. Usually having Old Man Zangetsu appearing behind Ichigo as they happen to hint towards Bach.

-Or in turn keep Ichigo a human that's gained shinigami powers due to Rukia but have his abilities be abnormal since he's technically still human. Like his abnormally high spiritual power and adaptability. Those two alone would be leagues to explore. Like having Ichigo learn other shinigami skills like kido or shunko. (in this route Ichigos family is just human albeit ones with a history of spiritual awareness)

-Quincies. I'd rather they stay dead and go with my Ishida idea above but if Kubo wants the end to be against quincies establish it better. Like explain if they are the dead souls of former quincies or so on.

-The arrancar war and Aizen. So much of that was stupid. Like the Yamamoto point you made above. Old man Yama alone could've obliterated Aizen and his army. =/

-Focus more on Ichigo and the human world/friends.

-This is just me personally but Orihime is such wasted potential and her supposedly godtier ability to reject reality rather stupid when it doesn't work at times in oddly convenient moments. (like hollow Ichigo decimating Ulquiorra) If this is the route she's destined to take forget giving her powers and give simpler battle oriented powers to another friend of Ichiog. Like Tatsuki.

-Or like the bankai idea you had. Rather than making mainstream why not limit it to Captains? The SS is based on older Japan so lets say each captain, like a samurai in the olden days, carried a shorter sword with their normal one. The shorter one allowing them to reach bankai by releasing it in conjunction with their normal zanpakuto.
I mostly like this idea since Ichigo just spams his bankai anyway in place of using other techniques or shikai. =/

There's honestly so many ideas or ways one could take bleach and do it better. =/

So, I haven't read the manga since Juha Bach or Yhwach (or whatever the translators called him.) killed the Soul King, but changed his mind from wiping out existence, to becoming the new Soul King or whatever. So... what's happened since then? Anything good? Story still shitty and inconsistent? Because of his apparent plethora of mixed races, has Ichigo been revealed to be a god or something yet? I hear Zaraki has a Shikai, despite Kubo confirming years ago that Zaraki's zanpakutou was already permanently in it's Shikai state like Ichigo's. Lol Kubo, never change. Oh yeah, did anything happen with Hichigo? I remember him saying "If you ever lose control to me again, I'll come back and crush your head." then Ichigo lost control during his fight with Ulquiorra. I wonder if anything ever came from that threat.

A lot yet nothing has happened. Grimmjow helped, Nel is there, Urahara finally used bankai, Shusui's luteinent apparently has some special sword, the quincies still aren't diddlying dead, Uryu wasn't a traitor (dun dun dunnnn), Ichiog has yet to reveal anything other than his double getsuga, the whole concept of a constant release Shikai is now in question making Ichigo's powers even more questionable, and no, we've not seen hide nor hair of Hollow Ichigo since he became or was revealed to be the true zangetsu. Given his new role I doubt you'll ever see him turn on Ichigo since the Old Man Zangetsu goes out of his way to point out that most of the times he did a hostile take over it was to protect Ichigos' life which contradicts the hollows own statements.

 

[Xickin]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

0_0 I am sooooo confused by that ending. Has Kubo finally lost it? There'll probably be some weird explanation later that'll get fans angry.

 

[Anagram]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Basically Kubo has proven the theories of Yachiru being Kenpachis zanpakutou spirit true and now he's gonna pull a Mugetsu level dues ex machina and bankai the Quincy too death.

 

[Xickin]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!!

 

[Anagram]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!!

It's Kubo. Sense hasn't existed for 8yrs. It just happens now. That's Bleach. Mugetsu made no sense, "true zangetsu" barely makes sense, butterflizen made no sense, Yamamoto not bankaing Aizen and his Espada made no sense, arrancar Quincy converts make no sense due the poison thing, how Ichigos powers work make no sense, why we haven't seen Ryuken in a Quincy arc makes no sense, having bankais only to lose them and have training mini arc chapters just to get bankai back made no sense, toshiro being made a zombie and then being changed back (both off screen) made no sense, Bach's logic/plans make no sense, why the shinigami apparently forgot they can do more than bankai this entire arc makes no sense, Unohanas Shikai and bankai having the same name made no sense, Ichigo only ever using getsuga tensho despite his "species" makes no sense-

Slipped into a tangent. I apologize. But yeah it's happening just cause now. Yachiru disappearing leaving only her clothes behind the second Zaraki used his Shikai the first time was foreshadowing if you can call it that. Plus Izana or whatever her name is taking note Yachirus powers seemed off in her fight was another.

Aside from that seems everyone is trying to go back and apply all of this too their age old Yachiru-is-Zarakis-sword theories which is now apparently true because I guess Kubo reads tumblr.

 

[Xickin]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

It's Kubo. Sense hasn't existed for 8yrs. It just happens now. That's Bleach. Mugetsu made no sense, "true zangetsu" barely makes sense, butterflizen made no sense, Yamamoto not bankaing Aizen and his Espada made no sense, arrancar Quincy converts make no sense due the poison thing, how Ichigos powers work make no sense, why we haven't seen Ryuken in a Quincy arc makes no sense, having bankais only to lose them and have training mini arc chapters just to get bankai back made no sense, toshiro being made a zombie and then being changed back (both off screen) made no sense, Bach's logic/plans make no sense, why the shinigami apparently forgot they can do more than bankai this entire arc makes no sense, Unohanas Shikai and bankai having the same name made no sense, Ichigo only ever using getsuga tensho despite his "species" makes no sense-

Oh god, when you actually list them together like that you begin to wonder if this ever a well-thought out series at all

 

[Anagram]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Oh god, when you actually list them together like that you begin to wonder if this ever a well-thought out series at all

Pretty sure "well thought out" ended with Aizen leaving the Soul Society. What's sadder is that's just a few examples from the past two arcs....

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Basically Kubo has proven the theories of Yachiru being Kenpachis zanpakutou spirit true and now he's gonna pull a Mugetsu level dues ex machina and bankai the Quincy too death.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

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Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[KingdomKey]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Upon reading this chapter:

Are you kidding me? This whole time his freaking lieutenant is Kenpachi's bankai?! I should never have picked this story back up after the last time it threw something unbelievable stupid or ridiculous at me.

 

[Anagram]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Bleach is like Kingdom Hearts. You keep going back like an abusive relationship so you can see those 10+ years resolved at some point.

 

[Zero Sora]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

I should never have picked this story back up after the last time it threw something unbelievable stupid or ridiculous at me.

That is why I stopped after Yhwach changed his mind from "Destroy the world." to "Become the Soul King." He did that in the span of one chapter.

 

[Xickin]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

You know what's sad? At this point Toriko is more interesting and captivating than Bleach. They just released a really cool chapter (better than anything Bleach has done in a while) I would suggest taking a look at that.

Oh and yeah I agree that once Aizen left the series went off the edge, but I would like to say that Kubo did leave a lot of unanswered questions and foreshadowing.

 

[Anagram]

Re: Bleach - "Everything's changed..."

Oh and yeah I agree that once Aizen left the series went off the edge, but I would like to say that Kubo did leave a lot of unanswered questions and foreshadowing.

It went off the rails way before that and that's also not a good thing. Lots of no answers or worse yet just things that happen but make no damn sense which is usually what it is in place of actual unanswered questions. If you went from arc to arc that list I made would increase fifty fold.