My Xion theory

[Axie]

I think that some Nobodies DO have hearts, they just don't realise it. so their memories can be tampered with...

The definition of a Nobody is a being without a heart. Body and soul. Period.

Axel says a funny thing; "You have a heart." But what he's referring to is Sora, it's Roxas's consciousness meeting with Axel's after Axel has died and Roxas has fused with Sora. He also says "Just because you have a next life," meaning that he doesn't think he has one (which might mean his Heartless is still running around and with it alive he has no chance at being restored).

Roxas's memories get tampered with because they're stored in SORA'S heart, to which Namine has access. She doesn't have access to any of the other Organization members' hearts, and so can't meddle with them. I don't think the Organization forgot Sora when all his friends did, either (as far as CoM goes).

There's always her being a Kairi lookalike to tip the scale, too.
Also, no point in leaving the good Memories if they would be without a conclusion. Riku'd forever more not know what happened to Xion; I think that's somewhat crueler than letting him know she died.

If the memories were important enough to him, she'd leave them alone in their entirety. After all, she left the decision up to Sora in CoM; she knew which one was best for him, but she wasn't going to force his hand one way or the other. So if Xion's death bothered Riku so much that Namine needed to erase them, they'd be memories he wouldn't want to lose. It's a paradox.

But again, considering KH's largely platonic relationships and the fact that Riku and Xion don't know each other for very long (and don't exactly fall head over heels for each other, if the scans thus far are any indication), I don't think she'd affect him to the point that he needed those memories erased.

If Xion really is related to Sora's Memories, Namine'd hesitate but go along with it.
Also, again with the kindred spirits; Namine'd disappear if she could and all but wiped herself out from the Heart of the person who cared about her the most; seeing Xion in a similar situation would get her to do it.

Good point. I was thinking she'd protest every step of the way, but if she has that understanding already she might just snap into witch mode and go through with it.

Well, Axel and Roxas had more than enough reason not to mention her even if they remembered, I agree (especially since Roxas didn't remember anything during KH2) but that still leaves us with why didn't Riku respond more than he did (aside from KH2 being badly written) especially with not only Namine but Kairi running around with him as well, and then DiZ and his reports as is mentioned repeatedly (unless, of course, for one reason or another, DiZ never cared specifically for Xion and just labeled her as another member of the Org, leaving her importance to be dictated by Riku and Namine).

I'm trying to think of a time when the subject could have come up. I'm not disagreeing and he absolutely should have said something somewhere, it just seems like he didn't really have a chance to go "Oh by the way, there was this chick Xion, she was awesome and stuff, but she's dead now, so."

Sweetheart >:3

D:< RAWR *bites*

Her making Sora choose to remember her or not; her all but running away from their promise to be friends again by not only dumping their reunion on her meeting with Roxas, but going along to disappear into Kairi afterwards (and her being Kairi now holds no water to me; Sora knew Kairi as Kairi at the end of CoM and still promised Namine as Namine that they'd be friends, so to me, she broke that promise).
She has it going in spades, actually.

Aw c'mon! Cut the girl some slack! I actually appreciated her making Sora choose, because she was very frank about it--this is real, this is not, but I've manipulated you enough and I'm not going to decide the rest of your life for you too--plus it was Namine or his older memories, no two ways about it. She had his trust then, but she hadn't earned it, so I can't see her just saying "Yeah I broke you, but I'm gonna make you better now like it or not, sweet dreams."

Their reunion wasn't really under her control. Sure, she could've run into him earlier to say hi, but she was busy running around fixing him, escaping DiZ, sending Axel after Kairi, grabbing Kairi out of the castle dungeon when she managed to get her ass kidnapped twice in a row, etc. As much as Sora meant to her, he wasn't the priority (meeting-wise, anyway).

She apparently wanted to go back to Kairi, I don't know why, maybe she just hated herself that much; but it's also possible that she didn't have a choice for one reason or another. It's still really unclear what PART of Kairi she was, and if her absence was going to be physically harmful to Kairi or herself down the line. Plus, she most likely didn't know who she was and what was going to happen to her at the time of the promise. She definitely had plans to meet up with him when he woke up, but DiZ threw a wrench in that when he decided to kill her off and Riku plucked her out of harm's way. That part was unavoidable.

 

[Xebrem]

I do tend to take things way to seriously.

But what about Axel? you can tell that he has some emotions :

KHII Roxas and Axel are in the World That Never Was:
"No one would miss me"- Roxas
"Thats not true! I would"- Axel

 

[Axie]

I do tend to take things way to seriously.

But what about Axel? you can tell that he has some emotions :

KHII Roxas and Axel are in the World That Never Was:
"No one would miss me"- Roxas
"Thats not true! I would"- Axel

More like desperate needs than emotions.

He made me feel...like I had a heart.

What are the Organization after? Hearts. What are they likely to do when they find something they equate with a heart? Stalk it.

 

[Smile]

If the memories were important enough to him, she'd leave them alone in their entirety. After all, she left the decision up to Sora in CoM; she knew which one was best for him, but she wasn't going to force his hand one way or the other. So if Xion's death bothered Riku so much that Namine needed to erase them, they'd be memories he wouldn't want to lose. It's a paradox.

Well, if Xion was gone-gone, Riku just might decide to forget her entirely, or DiZ did go along and force her hand, seeing how Riku'd be out of comission.
Sora's case was different. He had Namine promise to be there when he woke up, so him forgetting her doesn't really mean he'd lose anything. Forgotten but not Lost, and he didn't know better.

Good point. I was thinking she'd protest every step of the way, but if she has that understanding already she might just snap into witch mode and go through with it.

Suffering yourself is protecting others. It's a reoccurring motif in KH. Sora's a prime example; Namine at the end of her way; Riku post CoM for Sora's sake.
I wouldn't be surprised they pulled a similar trick on Xion.

I'm trying to think of a time when the subject could have come up. I'm not disagreeing and he absolutely should have said something somewhere, it just seems like he didn't really have a chance to go "Oh by the way, there was this chick Xion, she was awesome and stuff, but she's dead now, so."

Well, bad writing aside, I pray it didn't reach those levels of retcon. If she was really important like that (something which might not have happened, is another option) they should've remotely hinted to it. As it stands though she doesn't even have a Proof of Existence (lawl Aqua's armor in the Room of Sleep?!)

Aw c'mon! Cut the girl some slack! I actually appreciated her making Sora choose, because she was very frank about it--this is real, this is not, but I've manipulated you enough and I'm not going to decide the rest of your life for you too--plus it was Namine or his older memories, no two ways about it. She had his trust then, but she hadn't earned it, so I can't see her just saying "Yeah I broke you, but I'm gonna make you better now like it or not, sweet dreams."

I'm the last person you need to defend SoNami and Namine to. I know what you're saying is true but she did put him on the spot, and despite it all being based on things that never really happened, Sora, much like me, never really saw it as a lie. He accepted the Memories because he was himself in them, Namine was the Namine he saw right in front of his eyes in them, and he accepted the feelings that came from them.
I really wonder how it would've went without him pulling that Promise out of her, to have her there when he woke up. Because that promise means he loses nothing, only gains. Old Memories + Namine for real.
I think in a way it was also Namine testing him. If he chose the lie, he wouldn't have been whom she thought he was.

Their reunion wasn't really under her control. Sure, she could've run into him earlier to say hi, but she was busy running around fixing him, escaping DiZ, sending Axel after Kairi, grabbing Kairi out of the castle dungeon when she managed to get her ass kidnapped twice in a row, etc. As much as Sora meant to her, he wasn't the priority (meeting-wise, anyway).

I know, but she did meet him. She could've snuck in a line to Sora, not to Roxas, but didn't. Her entire would-be interaction with Sora went through Roxas, is what I meant. I know she probably figured out Sora wouldn't remember her at all, but that's still her hiding behind that fact and running away from facing him, imo.

She apparently wanted to go back to Kairi, I don't know why, maybe she just hated herself that much;

She'd be whole, no longer a freak amongst freaks, and she'd still get to be with Riku, Sora, and in a way, Roxas.
The best possible option for her given the circumstances :\

It's still really unclear what PART of Kairi she was, and if her absence was going to be physically harmful to Kairi or herself down the line.

Well, DiZ was a bastard, but I like to think that he still wouldn't have ordered her erased if her being gone would've mattered that much. She really is nothing to Kairi, and Kairi waking up fine and dandy after Namine was created and bringing balance to the Keyhole to Darkness all but proves that Kairi - Namine = Kairi.
Nothing lost there.

Plus, she most likely didn't know who she was and what was going to happen to her at the time of the promise. She definitely had plans to meet up with him when he woke up, but DiZ threw a wrench in that when he decided to kill her off and Riku plucked her out of harm's way. That part was unavoidable.

I know. But again - they could've done something with it, but didn't.
</3 Nojima-Nomura combo.

I do tend to take things way to seriously.

But what about Axel? you can tell that he has some emotions :

KHII Roxas and Axel are in the World That Never Was:
"No one would miss me"- Roxas
"Thats not true! I would"- Axel

That's not being literal, that's him showing emotions and being emotional. He seemed torn and he effin cried over Roxas, he never said he loved him or hated him or what not.

 

[Axie]

Well, if Xion was gone-gone, Riku just might decide to forget her entirely, or DiZ did go along and force her hand, seeing how Riku'd be out of comission.
Sora's case was different. He had Namine promise to be there when he woke up, so him forgetting her doesn't really mean he'd lose anything. Forgotten but not Lost, and he didn't know better.

Got me there--but does Riku ever do anything the easy way? He pushed himself past endurance in KH1, insisted on waking up at the beginning of Reverse/Rebirth, refused Namine's offer to help with XH, and avoided Sora for all of KH2 because he didn't like the way he looked (Sora: DO I LOOK LIKE I CARE DUMMYBUTT?! I'M CRYING ON YOUR STUPID BOOTS.). I don't see him just deciding he just can't handle the idea that a Nobody he knew for less than a year went and died on him; not that it wouldn't affect him profoundly, but I can't see him taking it to such drastic measures. (Willingly, anyway. DiZ may very well have done that.)

Suffering yourself is protecting others. It's a reoccurring motif in KH. Sora's a prime example; Namine at the end of her way; Riku post CoM for Sora's sake.
I wouldn't be surprised they pulled a similar trick on Xion.

And apparently something nasty happened to VAT respectively, too. These games are gonna be so fucking sad.

Well, bad writing aside, I pray it didn't reach those levels of retcon. If she was really important like that (something which might not have happened, is another option) they should've remotely hinted to it. As it stands though she doesn't even have a Proof of Existence (lawl Aqua's armor in the Room of Sleep?!)

She's missing two things (thus far): the Proof of Existence and the fancy title. The title may be on its way, but the Proof definitely wasn't there (and if it crops up later I'm going to have to hit some things). But she was the new guy--Roxas was apparently already completely instated and prepped and powdered, and Xion apparently didn't even have the authority to zip up her cloak all the way yet.

I'm the last person you need to defend SoNami and Namine to. I know what you're saying is true but she did put him on the spot, and despite it all being based on things that never really happened, Sora, much like me, never really saw it as a lie. He accepted the Memories because he was himself in them, Namine was the Namine he saw right in front of his eyes in them, and he accepted the feelings that came from them.
I really wonder how it would've went without him pulling that Promise out of her, to have her there when he woke up. Because that promise means he loses nothing, only gains. Old Memories + Namine for real.
I think in a way it was also Namine testing him. If he chose the lie, he wouldn't have been whom she thought he was.

I like that idea and she may have been doing that, but there's no question it hurt her to hear the response. (She actually flinches back a little, it's tough to watch.)

She had to realize that he didn't see it as a lie, but she made it clear to him as best she could--to me, it would have been worse if she'd just said she could fix him and left it at that. Sora had to choose no matter what. It just wasn't a decision she could make for him, and it wouldn't have been fair of her to take that responsibility.

I'm wondering what life would have been like if he picked Namine. (Started a fic on it, in fact.) It seems like it'd be impossible to go on like that; sure, Sora remembers Namine as this girl who lived on the island with him and Riku and...red and purple blur of doom, but nobody else is going to see it that way. Think about it long enough and it's not even a valid option, which is probably what she wanted him to see if she was testing him like you said. Until he saw that, he might not have been able to give up this comfortable past with Namine for an uncertain, foggy one--so in giving him the right to choose, she stripped him of his choices.

I know, but she did meet him. She could've snuck in a line to Sora, not to Roxas, but didn't. Her entire would-be interaction with Sora went through Roxas, is what I meant. I know she probably figured out Sora wouldn't remember her at all, but that's still her hiding behind that fact and running away from facing him, imo.

CRAP. NESS. I completely didn't realize that was directed at Roxas until I looked over the script again. That was dumb. That was dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

She'd be whole, no longer a freak amongst freaks, and she'd still get to be with Riku, Sora, and in a way, Roxas.
The best possible option for her given the circumstances :\

I was kinda kidding there. XD She COULD have gone crawling back to Sora if she wanted, they did have that promise and her words in the journal, but maybe for some reason she decided it was better if she'd never existed to him. (Maybe she felt like she was getting between him and Kairi? GO NAMINE GO.)

Well, DiZ was a bastard, but I like to think that he still wouldn't have ordered her erased if her being gone would've mattered that much. She really is nothing to Kairi, and Kairi waking up fine and dandy after Namine was created and bringing balance to the Keyhole to Darkness all but proves that Kairi - Namine = Kairi.
Nothing lost there.

Am I the only one who finds it painfully ironic that the character who's supposed to mean everything has no value as a character, and the one who's supposed to mean nothing has all the value in the world?

I know. But again - they could've done something with it, but didn't.

Trust me, I'm not done being pissed about that--but the way things played out, I'm not seeing an opening (other than the %$*&#@ scene where she talks to @#$&*% Roxas).

 

[Smile]

Got me there--but does Riku ever do anything the easy way? He pushed himself past endurance in KH1, insisted on waking up at the beginning of Reverse/Rebirth, refused Namine's offer to help with XH, and avoided Sora for all of KH2 because he didn't like the way he looked (Sora: DO I LOOK LIKE I CARE DUMMYBUTT?! I'M CRYING ON YOUR STUPID BOOTS.). I don't see him just deciding he just can't handle the idea that a Nobody he knew for less than a year went and died on him; not that it wouldn't affect him profoundly, but I can't see him taking it to such drastic measures. (Willingly, anyway. DiZ may very well have done that.)

Or even Namine. If it really threw him off, she might've decided to do it in his favor regardless. Something along the lines of "Xion wouldn't have wanted him to /wrist over her".

And apparently something nasty happened to VAT respectively, too. These games are gonna be so fucking sad.

Fuck yes <3

I'm wondering what life would have been like if he picked Namine. (Started a fic on it, in fact.) It seems like it'd be impossible to go on like that; sure, Sora remembers Namine as this girl who lived on the island with him and Riku and...red and purple blur of doom, but nobody else is going to see it that way. Think about it long enough and it's not even a valid option, which is probably what she wanted him to see if she was testing him like you said. Until he saw that, he might not have been able to give up this comfortable past with Namine for an uncertain, foggy one--so in giving him the right to choose, she stripped him of his choices.

Only Sora picked option number 3 - to have Namine for real afterwards. <3 clever kid.

CRAP. NESS. I completely didn't realize that was directed at Roxas until I looked over the script again. That was dumb. That was dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

You do realize that's like my least favorite KH2 moment, right? I screamed at the monitor. SUCH a horrible contrast to the SoRiku reunion not that long before.

I was kinda kidding there. XD She COULD have gone crawling back to Sora if she wanted, they did have that promise and her words in the journal, but maybe for some reason she decided it was better if she'd never existed to him. (Maybe she felt like she was getting between him and Kairi? GO NAMINE GO.)

Or him being utterly obsessed with her seemed like something unhealthy XD;

Am I the only one who finds it painfully ironic that the character who's supposed to mean everything has no value as a character, and the one who's supposed to mean nothing has all the value in the world?

You did read my essay, right? You're not alone on that. She really is nothing more than a failure at a yaoi shield.

 

[Axie]

Only Sora picked option number 3 - to have Namine for real afterwards. <3 clever kid.

Right, but he's still giving up a lot. There was a Namine on Destiny Islands who he really cared for and might have even loved, because she was in all the right memories at all the right times. Life rarely plays out that perfectly (look at what happened with Kairi). So his relationship with her after his mind had been wiped of her could never possibly be the same--yes, they'd be friends, but Sora's friends with everyone. It would take a slow buildup, and they might not even click in the same way. In CoM, Sora took for granted that he deeply cared about this girl and would do anything for her. It was a delusion. There's a possibility he'd feel the same way again over time, but there's an even bigger possibility he wouldn't; Namine directly influenced his emotions in her favor.

You do realize that's like my least favorite KH2 moment, right? I screamed at the monitor. SUCH a horrible contrast to the SoRiku reunion not that long before.

Sometimes I feel like I played the games stoned, because I didn't get too upset or excited over much (except Roxas and Riku). I remember having a little jolt when she said that to him, and then Roxas got involved--and I think I was a little confused and just didn't pick up on the fact that she was definitely talking to Roxas there.

Or him being utterly obsessed with her seemed like something unhealthy XD;

Well, there's no guarantee that he'd pull that one again.

You did read my essay, right? You're not alone on that. She really is nothing more than a failure at a yaoi shield.

I did, I just find it really silly that their roles are completely opposite their importance to the plot. Seems like "role" and "importance to the plot" are supposed to be inseparable. Only Kairi.

 

[Smile]

Namine directly influenced his emotions in her favor.

And that is where you're wrong. Naminé said "I did that, and let's assume Sora reacted in that manner". Sora saw that, agreed that's how he'd have reacted, and the logical conclusion was that in light of those Memories, he should care. She affects his Memories, not his emotions.

Well, there's no guarantee that he'd pull that one again.

Well, I always said that him going berserk like that had a lot to do with him freaking locking Riku behind that stupid door. So I doubt it'd get that bad, but it would get bad, no doubt.

I did, I just find it really silly that their roles are completely opposite their importance to the plot. Seems like "role" and "importance to the plot" are supposed to be inseparable. Only Kairi.

I once said something that Audo had in his sig.
The More importance they have to the plot, the less they're seen.
Riku, Naminé, Roxas in KH2, as opposed to Kairi and Sora. :3

 

[Axie]

And that is where you're wrong. Naminé said "I did that, and let's assume Sora reacted in that manner". Sora saw that, agreed that's how he'd have reacted, and the logical conclusion was that in light of those Memories, he should care. She affects his Memories, not his emotions.

Then she's a lot more skilled than I thought, cuz it's gotta be tough to approximate somebody's reaction even if you know them really well.

Even so, it's hard to say if their relationship would reach that level again. Memory Namine was obviously there for a few years before she vanished for Sora to get that attached to her. Once they reunite, Namine's obviously gonna be a little standoffish. If she went so far as to change the Oathkeeper, I can see her doing everything in her power to stay out of Kairi's way.

There's only one answer.

Have Kairi's heart stolen again. (And send it to Xemnas for Christmas.)

Well, I always said that him going berserk like that had a lot to do with him freaking locking Riku behind that stupid door. So I doubt it'd get that bad, but it would get bad, no doubt.

Really? I mean, I always thought that he'd feel guilty for that or something, but I really don't see that much. His attitude about Riku (post-KH1) has always been "Let's find Riku and the King!" (Until RR started really getting in his way and he had to knuckle down.) He seemed more intent on Riku's absence than the action of locking him away.

 

[Smile]

Then she's a lot more skilled than I thought, cuz it's gotta be tough to approximate somebody's reaction even if you know them really well.

Well, not if we say Sora's Heart had to do with it himself. We don't really know how she created the Memories.

Even so, it's hard to say if their relationship would reach that level again. Memory Namine was obviously there for a few years before she vanished for Sora to get that attached to her. Once they reunite, Namine's obviously gonna be a little standoffish. If she went so far as to change the Oathkeeper, I can see her doing everything in her power to stay out of Kairi's way.

Well, it's kind of pointless, seeing how Sora remembers her. So I think that gives her an advantage.

Really? I mean, I always thought that he'd feel guilty for that or something, but I really don't see that much. His attitude about Riku (post-KH1) has always been "Let's find Riku and the King!" (Until RR started really getting in his way and he had to knuckle down.) He seemed more intent on Riku's absence than the action of locking him away.

Because Riku being away was Sora's own fault. Like I said, right after he locked him up, right after Riku told Sora to take care of Kairi, right after Kairi was there waiting for him, right after he all but made it back home -
He turned and dashed off after Riku.
CoM Sora was a head case. I really can't put this and that aside as unrelated.

 

[Axie]

Well, not if we say Sora's Heart had to do with it himself. We don't really know how she created the Memories.

Part of the problem is, Namine would still have to be herself for it to work. Unless she wanted to just pluck out the memories of Kairi and replace them with her, same lines and same gestures, she'd have to make sure it matched her, and she'd have to make sure it matched Sora. She'd have to be in control, really, because if she overwrote Kairi or created some other person who wasn't quite herself, she'd have a hard time when she finally met Sora, because she'd be different from the person he remembered.

Well, it's kind of pointless, seeing how Sora remembers her. So I think that gives her an advantage.

Foiled AGAIN. How do I keep forgetting that? But that actually throws off the other thread a bit. If he remembers everything from Oblivion (which Namine couldn't have used if she wanted to bolster Kairi memories with altered memories of herself), does he also remember everything about Namine manipulating his memories? Can he distinguish these fake memories from his real ones? And if he has those memories, and Namine created alterations with Kairi in her place, then he's got repeats on the brain.

Because Riku being away was Sora's own fault. Like I said, right after he locked him up, right after Riku told Sora to take care of Kairi, right after Kairi was there waiting for him, right after he all but made it back home -
He turned and dashed off after Riku.
CoM Sora was a head case. I really can't put this and that aside as unrelated.

Sora's goal from the beginning was:
-Find Riku and Kairi
-Find King Mickey

With Kairi down, that's two to go. Riku stayed behind the door of his own volition, and Sora didn't seem to question this at any point in the game. (I fucking would've.) Would he honestly have turned his back on his friend, as well as on Donald and Goofy, and just gone home after that? No. That's not Sora.

Well, I imagine Namine contributed to the head case. Not only does he have all these memories cropping up out of nowhere, and old ones slipping away, he's also got back guys smacking him around and saying, "Namine. Remember her?" He's under a lot of stress, compounded by the fact that he probably shouldn't even be trusting these people enough to believe what they're saying (but he does it again and again and I have to wonder if he's just that dense), and Riku isn't helping.

 

[Smile]

Part of the problem is, Namine would still have to be herself for it to work. Unless she wanted to just pluck out the memories of Kairi and replace them with her, same lines and same gestures, she'd have to make sure it matched her, and she'd have to make sure it matched Sora. She'd have to be in control, really, because if she overwrote Kairi or created some other person who wasn't quite herself, she'd have a hard time when she finally met Sora, because she'd be different from the person he remembered.

No, I didn't mean that. I meant more along the lines of Naminé having Sora himself help her create the Memories, so they'd seem legitimate to him. I really don't believe she replaced Kairi on that level.
Another girl and all that.

Foiled AGAIN. How do I keep forgetting that? But that actually throws off the other thread a bit. If he remembers everything from Oblivion (which Namine couldn't have used if she wanted to bolster Kairi memories with altered memories of herself), does he also remember everything about Namine manipulating his memories? Can he distinguish these fake memories from his real ones? And if he has those memories, and Namine created alterations with Kairi in her place, then he's got repeats on the brain.

I don't think he remembers the fake Memories. I'd see it more along the lines of "I remember really caring about her, I remember going through a lot for her, I just wish I remembered why I did any of it. Oh but we promised to be friends and I owe her so I'll give her a shot".
The feelings still being there would make up for the rest.

With Kairi down, that's two to go. Riku stayed behind the door of his own volition, and Sora didn't seem to question this at any point in the game. (I fucking would've.) Would he honestly have turned his back on his friend, as well as on Donald and Goofy, and just gone home after that? No. That's not Sora.

I know, which was my point. I really do believe Sora took it on himself though. He finally met Riku as Riku, they were finally pals again, teasing and joking and talking and what not -
And to celebrate he locks Riku behind a door that disappears.
Mmmyeah, no home for Sora yet.
And then after he all but willingly abandoned Riku on the other side of the door (Riku staying there didn't mean Sora had to go along with it, but he did) Naminé pops up and he has shoved at him how he failed her on an even greater scale of how he failed Riku.
Enter Sora breakdowning.

Well, I imagine Namine contributed to the head case. Not only does he have all these memories cropping up out of nowhere, and old ones slipping away, he's also got back guys smacking him around and saying, "Namine. Remember her?" He's under a lot of stress, compounded by the fact that he probably shouldn't even be trusting these people enough to believe what they're saying (but he does it again and again and I have to wonder if he's just that dense), and Riku isn't helping.

I so love CoM <3

 

[Byronic Hero]

0_o Longest. Conversation. Ever.

You guys are scaring away everyone away from this thread xD

 

[Smile]

OUR THREAD! ROAR!

And nah. I've had longer conversations with people that liked Kairi.
Those threads ended up being closed though XD

 

[Axie]

No, I didn't mean that. I meant more along the lines of Naminé having Sora himself help her create the Memories, so they'd seem legitimate to him. I really don't believe she replaced Kairi on that level.
Another girl and all that.

'Twere hypothetical, and I getcha now. I'm guessing it was subconscious, though.

I don't think he remembers the fake Memories. I'd see it more along the lines of "I remember really caring about her, I remember going through a lot for her, I just wish I remembered why I did any of it. Oh but we promised to be friends and I owe her so I'll give her a shot".
The feelings still being there would make up for the rest.

It's gonna be hard to say until KH3, really. I don't see how it'd be quite that selective, to bring in everything that was Namine and leave out everything that motivated him. He'd probably think through it all until his head hurt trying to figure it out--we saw how he was when he found out there was somebody besides Kairi and Riku in the first place.

I know, which was my point. I really do believe Sora took it on himself though. He finally met Riku as Riku, they were finally pals again, teasing and joking and talking and what not -
And to celebrate he locks Riku behind a door that disappears.

Ummm...does...fighting Riku's possessed Ansembody count as teasing and joking? Because Sora's last interaction with the unadulterated Riku before the door scene is when Riku tries to kill him in Hollow Bastion. I know there was a brief flash of memories in FM+, but all things considered Sora didn't seem too affected. He just nodded and pushed the door closed. The question didn't even come up.

Mmmyeah, no home for Sora yet.
And then after he all but willingly abandoned Riku on the other side of the door (Riku staying there didn't mean Sora had to go along with it, but he did) Naminé pops up and he has shoved at him how he failed her on an even greater scale of how he failed Riku.
Enter Sora breakdowning.

I'm seeing the motivation, and maybe I'm seeing the results--but I'm not seeing Sora's reaction. I've never seen anything where he angsts about Riku being lost there, all he ever does is say "Gotta find Riku, la dee dah! " Until Riku starts turning against him again, but that's the only Riku-related thing that seemed to set him off in CoM.

I so love CoM <3

I lovehate it. On the one hand, characterization! On the other hand...plot. On that other greasy pimply oozing hand that nobody really likes to look at...gameplay.

 

[Xebrem]

err... are you guys gunna quit this? 'cause it kinda sounds like your going around in circles...

 

[Smile]

Funny you mentioned because we quit after Axie's last post XD;

 

[oblivion_key]

if roxas and namine were both born from sora and kairi, what if xion was born from roxas, namine, or both?

 

[Smile]

Roxas and Namine were both born from Sora. And they're both Special Nobodies; I doubt they had much left in them to create Xion, seeing how Namine is barely made up from anything.

 

[oblivion_key]

Roxas and Namine were both born from Sora. And they're both Special Nobodies; I doubt they had much left in them to create Xion, seeing how Namine is barely made up from anything.

like i was thinking maybe xion was born when sora went 2 sleep