My Xion theory

[Smile]

Problem; Ansem/DiZ would remember.

Says who? Sora didn't have any past Memories with him, so there was nothing he had to forget. Who's to say she couldn't erase the newer Memories of Xion?

Edit: Crap, you meant the reports--although I'd still be surprised if that happened, because they go past even Roxas's absorption into Sora, so unless Namine ran back and did some quick editing I can't see that happening.

Or she just editted the past ones. You said yourself - they were written into the game. She wouldn't have needed to alter the newest reports possibly.

 

[Axie]

Says who? Sora didn't have any past Memories with him, so there was nothing he had to forget. Who's to say she couldn't erase the newer Memories of Xion?

I getcha, but that's not my point. For DiZ's memories to be vulnerable, he would likely have to have a deep connection to Sora (as in a friend of his et al), but the two never even MET, and if Namine could manipulate people who just knew that Sora existed and/or had seen him in person, why didn't she screw around with the Organization, rescue him, and get away?

Giving Namine the ability to erase DiZ's memories of Xion, memories not connected to Sora in any way shape or form (as far as DiZ is concerned and that we know of on Xion's part) sounds like too much creative license for a girl who is supposed to only have power over "Sora's memories and those around him."

 

[TrinityxLimit]

Riku:Why do you have the Keyblade?!

Funny thing is, he also said that to Roxas.

 

[Smile]

I getcha, but that's not my point. For DiZ's memories to be vulnerable, he would likely have to have a deep connection to Sora (as in a friend of his et al), but the two never even MET, and if Namine could manipulate people who just knew that Sora existed and/or had seen him in person, why didn't she screw around with the Organization, rescue him, and get away?

Because they were Nobodies. Roxas, being Sora's own Nobody and Namine's "brother" in birth, was vulnerable (when he was put in the Digital TLTW), but the Org
1) were Nobodies and we don't know for sure she could affect them like that
2) didn't really have the chance to be affected, durrr. I doubt Namine thought about messing with Marluxia's Memories even once he met Sora, and even if she did - refer to section 1. Namine's powers are described as powers over not really the Memories of others, but people whose Hearts are linked back to Sora. Lacking Hearts, they were immune to her.

Giving Namine the ability to erase DiZ's memories of Xion, memories not connected to Sora in any way shape or form (as far as DiZ is concerned and that we know of on Xion's part) sounds like too much creative license for a girl who is supposed to only have power over "Sora's memories and those around him."

Actually, Namine being used in the experiments held in CO at all would indicate that she has powers over not only Sora's Memories and those of people related to him. Another Report goes as far as all but describe her being used in experiments on Memories period, so it's highly debatable whether or not it's just Sora-related.

 

[Axie]

Would rep you if I could, definitely good points--although I'm not completely convinced yet. If I was Namine in KH2 and I could pull Jedi mind tricks like that, it'd be "Haha, NO Riku--I think I'm gonna tell Roxas whatever I want, thanks" and "Let the hell GO of me, DiZ, how about you just forget I was ever here?"

It's hard to say if she was aware of her own imminent erasure, once DiZ ordered it, but if she was it seems like she'd avoid that, too. It's possible she was just trying to avoid another Sora situation and was just delicate enough to be concerned for her captors, but she seemed pretty intent on doing something about Roxas if she had the stones to hack into the system and endanger herself just to reach him.

 

[Smile]

Would rep you if I could, definitely good points--although I'm not completely convinced yet. If I was Namine in KH2 and I could pull Jedi mind tricks like that, it'd be "Haha, NO Riku--I think I'm gonna tell Roxas whatever I want, thanks" and "Let the hell GO of me, DiZ, how about you just forget I was ever here?"

Only that's hardly Namine's attitude in KH2. The entire point is that that's the end of her redemption, where everything would be set right again. Mind-games would be doing what she did to start the entire mess, and she doesn't seem too kin on going there.

It's hard to say if she was aware of her own imminent erasure, once DiZ ordered it, but if she was it seems like she'd avoid that, too.

manga, albeit non-canon, shows she was aware of it. I wouldn't put it beyond being in the novels too.
That's one.
Two - Namine is the first person who doubts her own existence. She'd welcome being erased as long as she didn't think it would harm either Sora or Kairi.

It's possible she was just trying to avoid another Sora situation and was just delicate enough to be concerned for her captors, but she seemed pretty intent on doing something about Roxas if she had the stones to hack into the system and endanger herself just to reach him.

Aside from helping him stay alive (I wanna see how they'd have kept him from being abducted eventually without her helping him reclaim the Keyblade and Axel popping up all the time, kind of hard to keep him cooperative when the entire world freezes up even more than it did in the game), Namine saw a kindred spirit in him. Being a Nobody like she at least believes herself to be, being born at the same time and being looked down at in the same manner, and then to top it all - her being attracted to the Sora in him - that would be about the one single selfish act she let herself do, reaching out to him, but again - it was for Roxas's own good, and therefore - Sora's.
That's not to say she'd do anything and everything though - she'd harm herself, but not others. That's her guiding rule.

 

[Marly]

God SA! You hog all the answers!... Well, I agree with SA..... >_>

 

[Axie]

Alright. Uncle.

So assuming Namine goes and does that, there'd have to be some significant motivation behind it. If she's not keen on using her mind powers, it'd almost have to be an order from DiZ to erase Xion from existence in all the memories connected with her, but I'm not sure if Namine would agree to do that if she's met Xion and talked with her and (presumably) gotten along with her--or even hadn't. If she lets DiZ smack her around when she could stop him, I doubt she'd hold enough of a grudge against Xion to make her forgotten of Namine's own volition or under orders.

That said, maybe Xion's story is so heart-breakingly, tear-jerkingly, soul-crushingly sad that Namine had no choice but to erase her out of everyone's memories or she'd cause a lot of pain. Or maybe there's some other extraneous detail that has yet to make itself known. (I'm just trying to come up with a reason for Namine to be that cruel.)

 

[Smile]

Alright. Uncle.

XD;;;

So assuming Namine goes and does that, there'd have to be some significant motivation behind it. If she's not keen on using her mind powers, it'd almost have to be an order from DiZ to erase Xion from existence in all the memories connected with her, but I'm not sure if Namine would agree to do that if she's met Xion and talked with her and (presumably) gotten along with her--or even hadn't. If she lets DiZ smack her around when she could stop him, I doubt she'd hold enough of a grudge against Xion to make her forgotten of Namine's own volition or under orders.

Actually, I think that had DiZ ordered her to do that, she'd have refused. I see it more as coming either from Xion herself prior to her disappearing, or the entire issue leaving its mark on Riku, so Namine decides to perform some "after care" in the matter.
In other words -

That said, maybe Xion's story is so heart-breakingly, tear-jerkingly, soul-crushingly sad that Namine had no choice but to erase her out of everyone's memories or she'd cause a lot of pain.

this ;3

DiZ would be the last person to care that much, imo, and Namine'd be even less eager to listen to him on that one.

Or maybe there's some other extraneous detail that has yet to make itself known. (I'm just trying to come up with a reason for Namine to be that cruel.)

Cruel? Sweetheart, we're talking about the girl who came and told Roxas he was never supposed to exist. She can do cruel to extreme measures; question is what were her reasons to do it should she have done it.

 

[Xebrem]

well... Namine' would only erase memories if she had to (like when she mucked up Sora's) so mabey there was a very good reason to do so, like, I dunno, Xion dying or something (like I said, I don't know). or maybe, she tryed to malnipulate Riku's memories and it kinda affected everyone else... that's just a compleate guess...

 

[Smile]

or maybe, she tryed to malnipulate Riku's memories and it kinda affected everyone else... that's just a compleate guess...

Seeing how Xion only interacted with a handful of people, most of which being Nobodies that even if Namine could affect their Memories, wouldn't have cared less about Xion, Namine wouldn't have had to mind-wipe too many people to erase Xion from existence.

 

[Xebrem]

good point...

 

[Axie]

Actually, I think that had DiZ ordered her to do that, she'd have refused. I see it more as coming either from Xion herself prior to her disappearing, or the entire issue leaving its mark on Riku, so Namine decides to perform some "after care" in the matter.
In other words -

this ;3

It'd have to be bad. Like, traumatizing. Like, NC-17. Otherwise I just can't see her robbing them of the good memories--because, if Riku cares enough that it leaves him a mess after she's gone (in a truly horrible way no less), there have to be some really damn good memories to back that up. I dunno if he's been around her long enough for that to be a factor.

But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. If Xion asked for it upfront, I think Namine would still hesitate, because she'd be thinking about how that was going to affect Riku and Roxas. You belong to more people than just yourself, after all. So maybe the scenario was more like erase Xion or Sora deteriorates (for one reason or another), or something happens to Riku (if DiZ threatened him--probably not planning to carry it out, but just to scare her), or etc.--basically, a consequence she couldn't afford. All conjecture. Hard to say if Xion was definitely erased in the first place; she and Axel clearly had a falling out, so he might not have brought her up again for that reason (or to keep Roxas's thoughts away from her and leaving the Organization and whatnot).

This game needs to stupid come out already.

Cruel? Sweetheart, we're talking about the girl who came and told Roxas he was never supposed to exist. She can do cruel to extreme measures; question is what were her reasons to do it should she have done it.

Don't call me sweetheart I'll bite you XD Very true, forgot that one. And, Marluxia twisting her arm or not, screwing around with Sora's head like that is on the cruel side. And again, on the dot; I'm not questioning her capability, only the circumstances, which is really kind of useless because we don't know them yet. >_<

 

[Xebrem]

well, Roxas IS Sora, so Namin'e could have erased the memories of Xion through Roxas of every other Org. member, since they were around Roxas. (I still don't know why though... 'cause Namin'e felt like it? jk)

 

[Smile]

It'd have to be bad. Like, traumatizing. Like, NC-17. Otherwise I just can't see her robbing them of the good memories--because, if Riku cares enough that it leaves him a mess after she's gone (in a truly horrible way no less), there have to be some really damn good memories to back that up. I dunno if he's been around her long enough for that to be a factor.

There's always her being a Kairi lookalike to tip the scale, too.
Also, no point in leaving the good Memories if they would be without a conclusion. Riku'd forever more not know what happened to Xion; I think that's somewhat crueler than letting him know she died.

But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. If Xion asked for it upfront, I think Namine would still hesitate, because she'd be thinking about how that was going to affect Riku and Roxas. You belong to more people than just yourself, after all.

If Xion really is related to Sora's Memories, Namine'd hesitate but go along with it.
Also, again with the kindred spirits; Namine'd disappear if she could and all but wiped herself out from the Heart of the person who cared about her the most; seeing Xion in a similar situation would get her to do it.

So maybe the scenario was more like erase Xion or Sora deteriorates (for one reason or another), or something happens to Riku (if DiZ threatened him--probably not planning to carry it out, but just to scare her), or etc.--basically, a consequence she couldn't afford.

Mmhm.

All conjecture.

Naturally.

Hard to say if she was definitely erased in the first place; she and Axel clearly had a falling out, so he might not have brought her up again for that reason (or to keep Roxas's thoughts away from her and leaving the Organization and whatnot).

Well, Axel and Roxas had more than enough reason not to mention her even if they remembered, I agree (especially since Roxas didn't remember anything during KH2) but that still leaves us with why didn't Riku respond more than he did (aside from KH2 being badly written) especially with not only Namine but Kairi running around with him as well, and then DiZ and his reports as is mentioned repeatedly (unless, of course, for one reason or another, DiZ never cared specifically for Xion and just labeled her as another member of the Org, leaving her importance to be dictated by Riku and Namine).

This game needs to stupid come out already.

Amen.

Don't call me sweetheart I'll bite you

Sweetheart >:3

XD Very true, forgot that one. And, Marluxia twisting her arm or not, screwing around with Sora's head like that is on the cruel side.

Her making Sora choose to remember her or not; her all but running away from their promise to be friends again by not only dumping their reunion on her meeting with Roxas, but going along to disappear into Kairi afterwards (and her being Kairi now holds no water to me; Sora knew Kairi as Kairi at the end of CoM and still promised Namine as Namine that they'd be friends, so to me, she broke that promise).
She has it going in spades, actually.

And again, on the dot; I'm not questioning her capability, only the circumstances, which is really kind of useless because we don't know them yet. >_<

True that.

well, Roxas IS Sora, so Namin'e could have erased the memories of Xion through Roxas of every other Org. member, since they were around Roxas. (I still don't know why though... 'cause Namin'e felt like it? jk)

I don't think that works like that :\

 

[Axie]

well, Roxas IS Sora, so Namin'e could have erased the memories of Xion through Roxas of every other Org. member, since they were around Roxas. (I still don't know why though... 'cause Namin'e felt like it? jk)

Except, as SA said, they're Nobodies and don't have hearts to contain the memories that need erasing. She might still be able to do it, but that wouldn't explain why she didn't just use her powers to get away from Marluxia and them. With DiZ it was more of an atonement thing, yeah, but Marluxia et al were just toying with her. I don't think she'd hesitate to escape given the chance.

 

[Xebrem]

this is a conversation of Axel and Roxas on Twighlight Town Clock tower:

"Roxas you have a heart... don't you? while Namine' and I... we really don't heve hearts, do we?"- Axel
"I... I don't know either." -Roxas
"I guess not..."- Axel
"But the hearts not something you can see. I've started wondering whether it's something you can't feel either... if so, then... nah never mind"- Roxas
hm? what're you getting at?"- Axel
"I sure Sora will find the answer because he's me"- Roxas
"yep, that's true"- Axel
~offers Roxas sea salt ice cream~
"this really takes me back. D'you remember? we first me the day you got your new name. And then we watched the sunset from up here"- Axel
"yeah, this is where I came from. Everyone... Hayner, Pence Olette... I hope their okay."- Roxas
"you should go see them again, if your looking for your answer"- Axel
"yeah... so I have to go. Sora's waiting for me"- Roxas
"yeah, I guess he is..."- Axel
~Axel takes a bite from the ice cream (looks like he's trying to hide a lone tear)~
"whoa, this ice cream sure is salty!"

I think that some Nobodies DO have hearts, they just don't realise it. so their memories can be tampered with...

 

[Smile]

I think that some Nobodies DO have hearts, they just don't realise it. so their memories can be tampered with...

They don't have Hearts, no, that would be just silly and ridiculous and contradict the gaping hole the Nobodies themselves feel (also the fact that lawl Nobodies and Heartless can fuse to make the Somebody again).
I do think they are capable of feeling though, despite what everyone might say. We'd be dealing with more than just bastards here, we'd be dealing with robotic people.

 

[Xebrem]

maybe it's just some Nobodies, I mean Luxord hates cheaters and loves to play cards
Demyx is easily scared and Fearful.
Larxene Loves to be sarcastic and see every one get 'crushed'

 

[Smile]

maybe it's just some Nobodies, I mean Luxord hates cheaters and loves to play cards
Demyx is easily scared and Fearful.
Larxene Loves to be sarcastic and see every one get 'crushed'

I think you're taking things far too literally.
Hate and Love on Luxord's side can be imprints from his Somebody, most likely.
Fear is an instinct; it doesn't mean emotions.
And Larxene finds therapy in hurting others, along her not caring.