YYEEESS!!!!!! Its a good game!



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For someone who wasn't supposed to be based on Riku's Data, he sure pulled every last concept the guy has going in his character >_>;

As for the Kairi-Riku friendship, no, I don't consider it to be a friendship. I can relate, lesse - everything you noted as relating to people other than Riku. About the best one would be Destiny's Embrace since the Keychain's based on her but seeing the design and the implications it has on Kairi's "destiny" from the get go, it is still easier to relate it to DI as a whole.
We each have our own butthurts, after all :3
 
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For someone who wasn't supposed to be based on Riku's Data, he sure pulled every last concept the guy has going in his character >_>;
Point being that he was a mess of a character and they clearly didn't know what they were trying to do with him relationship wise, hence why it's not a good indicator for irl Sora/Riku.

As for the Kairi-Riku friendship, no, I don't consider it to be a friendship.
Shit, I sure as hell wouldn't be so occupied with getting the heart back to someone who isn't even my friend.
Riku: So, Kairi’s like a lifeless puppet now?

Maleficent: Precisely.

Riku: And her heart was...

Maleficent: Taken by the Heartless, no doubt.

Riku: Tell me! What can I do?
Riku: A puppet that’s lost its heart to the Heartless... Maybe it holds the key
to helping Kairi. How about it, Sora? Let’s join forces to save her. We can do
it, together.
Riku: Soon, Kairi. Soon.
Riku: Who knows? As long as it means getting Kairi’s heart back, I couldn’t
care less.
Captain Hook: Hmph. You’re wasting your time! The Heartless have devoured that
girl’s heart. I’ll stake me other hand it’s lost forever.

Riku: I will find it no matter what.
Riku: Take care of her.
I can relate, lesse - everything you noted as relating to people other than Riku.
Please do, I'm interested to hear this.

About the best one would be Destiny's Embrace since the Keychain's based on her but seeing the design and the implications it has on Kairi's "destiny" from the get go, it is still easier to relate it to DI as a whole.
So I suppose Aqua's Destiny's Embrace is also easier to relate to DI.
 

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Shit, I sure as hell wouldn't be so occupied with getting the heart back to someone who isn't even my friend.
With how little RiKai's own friendship was established, we're left with what is there more - SoRi's issues. Riku didn't seem half as concerned about Kairi's fate neither on DI nor in Traverse Town until he saw Sora with Donald and Goofy and his jealousy kicked in. Maleficent herself didn't seem half as bothered with telling Riku Sora replaced THEM, but more how he replaced RIKU. It was only then all those nice quotes you brought up started pouring in but by then Kairi was the prize and the goal to reach in his race against Sora. Monstro was a point in between where Riku moved from shrugging her off to trying to use her to lure Sora to work with him. But then Sora refused and egads, Riku didn't mind that Sora refused to help Kairi, but that Sora chose a puppet over Riku. That was the last straw.
Even in Neverland, a lot of it had to do with Sora and Riku's issues. Riku's comment about Sora needing to care about old friends should've also related to he himself but we've already seen that egads, whenever Riku shows up, Sora brings Kairi up and prefers Donald and Goofy over him. So it's more along the lines of "I know you don't care about -me-, but you don't shut up about -her-, so here. I got to her first, durr hurr".
Taking care of Kairi ties in nicely. As she was the means to hurt Sora with, Riku telling Sora to take care of her means he accepted he was being an idiot and Sora's allowed to have other friends.
Namine appearing as Kairi - A very interesting question is whether or not she could've appeared as anyone else. If not, what with being Kairi's Nobody - the whole thing becomes redundant as far as basing the 'friendship' goes. And then we have Namine's own issues regarding the girl. More so than it being how Riku trusts Kairi and would listen to an apparation of her that appeared out of thin air, it was the only person Namine, who perceives herself as Kairi's shadow, could choose to appear as.
And as for saving Kairi on both occasions - the girl he thought Sora cared for, and Namine was with him (in TWTNW at least, and in DI as well going by the novels, IIRC). He'd have had enough reasons to stick around even without direct concern for the girl's own sake.
After all, if the Org got their hands on Kairi, Sora'd be in a pinch too. Granted, he failed, but that's the same if he did it for Kairi or someone else.

So I suppose Aqua's Destiny's Embrace is also easier to relate to DI.
They based the Keychain in KH2 and then forced it in BBS because of Aqua's meeting Kairi. Seeing the name and the Paopu Keychain, the Keyblade is without a doubt related to DI - the place Kairi ended up in. So Aqua got the Keychain because of where Kairi'd end up at, and Riku got the Keychain based on where Kairi ended up at which was his home.
To be nitpicky, Sora got the Starseeker after knowing Yen Sid for what, half an hour? and Aqua got it after what, a similar amount of time? So it's not like Keychains indicate any form of a long lasting bond either.
 
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With how little RiKai's own friendship was established, we're left with what is there more - SoRi's issues.
Because the center of the game is SoRi's issues? Just because the focus isn't on something doesn't mean it's not there.
I agree with you, for example, that TAV's friendship could have been fleshed out more, but this doesn't invalidate their friendship.

Riku didn't seem half as concerned about Kairi's fate neither on DI nor in Traverse Town until he saw Sora with Donald and Goofy and his jealousy kicked in.
Because he thought she made it off?
He says it in Traverse Town.
And he says on DI, "Kairi's coming with us."

You're misconstruing this when he was doing nothing more than being ignorant.

Maleficent herself didn't seem half as bothered with telling Riku Sora replaced THEM, but more how he replaced RIKU.
Uh, yeah? Malficent said Sora replaced Riku, so what?
Riku made it abundantly clear that later on that he thought Sora replaced Kairi too.

It was only then all those nice quotes you brought up started pouring in but by then Kairi was the prize and the goal to reach in his race against Sora. Monstro was a point in between where Riku moved from shrugging her off to trying to use her to lure Sora to work with him. But then Sora refused and egads, Riku didn't mind that Sora refused to help Kairi, but that Sora chose a puppet over Riku. That was the last straw.
Interesting how you cover up his comment in Monstro about joining forces.
Show me some tangible evidence of Riku seeing Kairi as the "prize" here as opposed to your own fanatical analysis of reading in-between the lines for something that isn't there, especially when the dialogue itself explicitly says otherwise.

And don't you dare look to Destiny Islands and say how he regarded Kairi as a "prize."
He was teasing Sora because he knew Sora had a crush on Kairi. I don't see him acting that way once he finds out what happened to Kairi.

Taking care of Kairi ties in nicely. As she was the means to hurt Sora with, Riku telling Sora to take care of her means he accepted he was being an idiot and Sora's allowed to have other friends.
How emotional. I never looked at it from that perspective, but it makes that scene all the more poignant. The last thing Riku says to Sora before they close the door and are separated is effectively, "You can have other friends."
God forbid it actually meaning, you know, that Riku wanted Sora to take care of Kairi.

Namine appearing as Kairi - A very interesting question is whether or not she could've appeared as anyone else. If not, what with being Kairi's Nobody - the whole thing becomes redundant as far as basing the 'friendship' goes. And then we have Namine's own issues regarding the girl. More so than it being how Riku trusts Kairi and would listen to an apparation of her that appeared out of thin air, it was the only person Namine, who perceives herself as Kairi's shadow, could choose to appear as.
If it really wasn't a matter of trust, then she didn't have to appear at all. She could have simply called out to Riku.
Or, hell, you want to talk about redundant, if it's not a matter of trust, she could have just chosen to appear as, uh, herself. Because otherwise there's not much point in her appearing as Kairi. And if you say, "But Riku didn't know her," then you're already admitting that the transformation does have to do with trust- with a familiar face.

And as for saving Kairi on both occasions - the girl he thought Sora cared for, and Namine was with him (in TWTNW at least, and in DI as well going by the novels, IIRC). He'd have had enough reasons to stick around even without direct concern for the girl's own sake.
After all, if the Org got their hands on Kairi, Sora'd be in a pinch too. Granted, he failed, but that's the same if he did it for Kairi or someone else.
Let me get this straight, you think that the reason why Riku saved Kairi in KH2 is not because she was in danger, because he didn't really care about her, but because he knew that Sora cared about her and it would put Sora in danger.

I'm not even going to respond to that. Just let it sit there.
I love this fandom.

Seeing the name and the Paopu Keychain, the Keyblade is without a doubt related to DI - the place Kairi ended up in. So Aqua got the Keychain because of where Kairi'd end up at, and Riku got the Keychain based on where Kairi ended up at which was his home.
To be nitpicky, Sora got the Starseeker after knowing Yen Sid for what, half an hour? and Aqua got it after what, a similar amount of time? So it's not like Keychains indicate any form of a long lasting bond either.
They absolutely originally intended for its design to originally focused on DI and then retconned that in BbS, but as far as meaning goes, it's the same.
When the keyblade transforms, it either has a motif of the people or the places Sora goes to, but in both cases it's still focused on the connection Sora made to the people. It's no different for Destiny's Embrace. There's a reason Riku thought it belonged to her. If it was more revolving around DI than Kairi, then he wouldn't have had that feeling, I mean, hell, he's more tied to DI than Kairi. BbS just solidifies that it has to do with Kairi by retconning the intent of the design.

Also, Yen Sid is a fucking retired Keyblade Master, it shouldn't be surprising that he gives Sora that keychain but for the most part, yes, it DOES indicate a bond between people. In any case, Sora didn't get a feeling that the keyblade belonged to Yen Sid and then hand it to him.
 

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The fact that the lines themselves are blatantly "I want to save/help/care for Kairi" is enough to say that there is care for Kairi there.

The very scene Maleficent tells Riku about how Sora replaced him, she also said at the end of that very scene

"you have no need of that wretched boy, come, I'll help you find what you're searching for."

Yeah, he was looking for Kairi even before he met Sora again and had the opportunity to feel jealous.

You said Riku only says those "Ill get Kairi's heart back!" lines after Maleficent instills jealousy.

Do you remember that it's only after that scene that he even sees Kairi's lifeless body? That's the reason why he starts saying I"ll get her heart back, he didn't even know she lost it.

Did you see his reaction to seeing Kairi's lifeless body? He was shocked, not "okay, the prize is ready, I'll get back at Sora!"

He was looking for Kairi from the very beginning, completely regardless of what he knew about Sora.


Riku: Who knows? As long as it means getting Kairi’s heart back, I couldn’t
care less.
Where is the jealousy here?

1. He's not even in front of Sora
2. He doesn't even mention Sora.
3. He mentions that the REASON he is doing his actions is "so long as it means getting Kairi's heart back.

I can fully understand saying that some of Riku's lines about Kairi are attributed to jealousy towards Sora, but to attribute all of those lines that specifically mention that the REASON he is doing an action is to save Kairi completely to SoRi jealously is extremely contrived.



If we can't use dialogue from the game itself as evidence for the characters' feelings, what else do we use?


There's a fine difference in reading between the lines and what you're doing , that's some serious fan-goggle filtration. This isn't even a subtle case of it, this is borderline extreme cherry-picking.

That's like, instead of slowing down at a stop sign, you slam the accelerator as hard as you can, then tell the cops you read between the stop lines and interpreted it differently.
 

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Riku was cited in the novels to only see Kairi as a means for him and Sora to leave the islands, something that more than adds up with the games, and didn't seem to bother too much until his jealousy issues kicked in.
Ah, you're talking about this?

As long as I was with Sora, I could go anywhere. That’s what I thought. And moreover, with Kairi there, who I supposed knew about other worlds… we could go anywhere, that’s what I thought.
Yeah--then he fell in love with her.

This place is just as it is inside my memories—just as it was back then. This is where I swept Kairi away to, taken in by Maleficent’s words, and spent time with her as she slept. The days I spent with Kairi… Kairi, like a silent doll… Even so, I was a little happy. I was able to have Kairi all to myself.
I felt it was my fault that Kairi went into that state—but, then I’d wonder to myself if it wasn’t really a mistake to have left for outside worlds, and I would touch Kairi’s sleeping face gently.
Without her heart—she wasn’t Kairi. That’s why I wanted to bring it back to her.
And then here are some of the Riku Replica living Riku's memories, so they're debatable, but noteworthy.

“It’s thanks to you, Kairi. If you hadn’t come to this world, I don’t think I would have thought anything of it.”
That’s right… I had a crush on Kairi, I’m sure of it. She was special. But Kairi… had a crush on Sora. I knew.
“Thank you, Kairi.”
That’s why… the truth was, that day, I wanted to tell Kairi how I felt. But, I couldn’t.
I don’t want you to fulfil it. I want to do it with my own hands. But, back then… I wanted Kairi for my own, no matter what.
I? No… Riku. Riku thought he wanted her for his own, no matter what.
We’ve always been rivals. I always won. Apart from that—apart from Kairi.
*revokes your cherry picker license*
 

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Grass said:
I love this fandom.
Some people say Riku and Kairi don't care about each other, some say Axel doesn't about Xion. As I said before - to each their own.

goldpanner said:
Yeah--then he fell in love with her.
To be remotely double standarding, the initial quote before they left the islands added up with what I saw in the games. The rest of it - a bit less so.

To stir this back on topic~

I actually am content with Riku in Re:Coded, come to think about it. After all, there were some Memories that belonged to Riku only, and those Memories no doubt leaked in during Days' timespan (hello, Xion complications <3). D-Riku already showed he had access to the vast majority of the data sans the CO section and did have some access to the Riku-exclusive Memories. So if he's based on those Memories, it adds up.
 

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I have been following Re coded since the first time it was mentioned it in the Jiminy voice thing.And i was very excited for it to come out.But also,in the back of my head i thought that it was just gonna be one of those things that Disney makes just to make money.Cause looking at the commercials i saw the different ways of fighting (for example the keyhole mission in Hollow Bastion and te fighting in Olympus Coliseum.) and i thought that it was gonna be kinda cheap.But now that iv played the game and i understand why we have to play like that,i think that Re coded is either the 2nd or 3rd best game.I cant decide if its better than BBS.So my hat is off to Re coded.
I owe Re:coded an apology. I always thought of it as one of those useless spin offs they made just to make money. And whenever people asked me what it was, I'd always say it was a remake of a copy of KH1 and COM.
But then I got the game and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I actually enjoyed it. I can't stop playing it. The gameplay is so fun, the stories in the worlds aren't the exact stories in KH1 and COM, and I laughed my head off a couple of times when the gameplay became side scrolling in Traverse Town and turn based in Olympus Coliseum. It's now actually one of my favorite games.

Re:coded, I'm sorry I underestimated you.
 

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I agree with how it is much better than expected, but in my opinion it's not as great as BBS. Nowhere near actually although Re:coded is a fun, entertaining and good game, it just doesn't beat BBS for me. I'd say it's my least favourite of the series that I've played (I haven't played CoM) but that doesn't mean that it's terrible compared to the others (not at all do I mean that!), it just isn't as great.
 

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I liked it. The gameplay was a major improvement from Days (which I did not hate). However, after I beat it, I didn't feel like playing the game anymore. The only thing I would have changed is that Donald and Goofy should have started traveling with D-Sora after they were pulled into the journal. Not because I felt like I needed party members, but because I just like having those three together. Other than that, its a solid game.
 

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Holy crap! I think I'm gonna stop reading forums relating to kingdom hearts for a while! Uo.o All these arguments I'm reading pointing out every single bad point by like 4 different people are starting to turn my off of one of my favorite series! On a side note, hi Smile! :D
 

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Holy crap! I think I'm gonna stop reading forums relating to kingdom hearts for a while! Uo.o All these arguments I'm reading pointing out every single bad point by like 4 different people are starting to turn my off of one of my favorite series! On a side note, hi Smile! :D

That was never my intention :s

I tend to make fun of stuff I like more than stuff I don't like :)
 

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Holy crap! I think I'm gonna stop reading forums relating to kingdom hearts for a while! Uo.o All these arguments I'm reading pointing out every single bad point by like 4 different people are starting to turn my off of one of my favorite series! On a side note, hi Smile! :D
It's called an opinion. You don't have to changer yours just because you read someone elses.
 

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It's called an opinion. You don't have to changer yours just because you read someone elses.
1) don't patronize me, I know what an opinion is. 2)I'm simply being made aware of many of Kingdom Hearts glaring flaws.
 

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1) don't patronize me, I know what an opinion is. 2)I'm simply being made aware of many of Kingdom Hearts glaring flaws.
The problem should start if the flaws outweigh what you enjoy in the series. Until then, not as much.

I love that part.Finally someone actually says the word and says "Why arent you done yet.Huh!"
I... really don't think that was how he intended it.
 

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I... really don't think that was how he intended it.
Well in a friendly manner.

Come on, isn't anyone giving Days some love?

ROXAS ALL THE WAY!
Ok.I loved days and the only reason i havent made a days thread is cause sooo many people DONT like days,so the thread would be 98% Hate mail and 2% Agreement mail.And just to show that i love days...ROXAS ALL THE WAY!

Ok.I loved days and the only reason i havent made a days thread is cause sooo many people DONT like days,so the thread would be 98% Hate mail and 2% Agreement mail.And just to show that i love days...ROXAS ALL THE WAY!
On the whole "98&37;" thing i tried to put 98% but it just wont work.
 
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Hha why can't they just make KH3 and be done with it, I'm tired of all these stupid sidestories.
 
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