why a keyblade wielders nobody can wield the keyblade..?

[Smile]

Uh, this is a kinda long and off-topic explanation, so I'll throw it in spoiler tags. >>;

Nomura said:
"Essentially when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a heartless, and on rare occasions their body changes into a Nobody. But in the case for these two, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape."

Grace Assassin went through an analysis of this small excerpt of text, using basic grammatical ideas (prepositional phrases and antecedents) to point out that "it" refers to "Sora's Body." If Sora's Body took on Roxas' shape, that would be normal. Special = Namine. It makes sense. =X Now, directly in his words so you can follow the thought process better:

[spoilers]

He goes on to say how this follows precisely with what Ansem the Wise says:

"I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody… but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

[...]

Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul. "

So yeah.[/spoilers]

I never said she came from anywhere else, hun. I'm just saying that's not what she's made up from.

Not necessarily, but it still does not say anything of the supposed fact that the Nobody of a Keyblade Wielder should be able to utilize a Keyblade. :\

Especially one whose Heart was no longer a proper Heartless, he'd get access to it through their relation, much like how the Memories were able to slide back and forth. Without a Heart of his own he wouldn't be able to wield it, arguably.

Sora stopped being a Heartless when Kairi purified him. He never picked up a Keyblade while he was a Shadow. XH's memories would be the likely explanation, not the being himself, though the question of "Why would Xehanort's Heartless give Riku a fruity Keyblade" comes into question... *shrugs*

He'd give him the Keyblade. The Keychain was up to Riku to decide, it seems... unless of course some weird, terrifying plot twist about Xehanort and DI comes into play. I mean, who knows, maybe the Paopu was actually Terra's Memories of the charms Aqua made for all three of them? lawl.

Regardless, you supposedly need a Heart to wield a True Keyblade, and Nobodies by definition are devoid of Hearts, so it stands to reason that the Nobody of a Keyblade Wielder would not be able to Wield. Judging by Roxas is a false comparison. That's all the thread is about, is it not?

And that's where Roxas probably having a Heart of his own comes into play.

 

[djam2410]

BUT i doubt that roxas has a heart of his own;

this would mean that sora always had 3 hearts inside of them,

which doesnt really sound to plausible to me.

having his own heart, and kairi's as....


omg..whoa i just had a brain blast..


wat if..roxas got his "special nobody" status from kairi, and not from ven being connected to sora?

wat if when they shipped kairi off from radiant garden (the apprentices)

they had the sole intention of the keyblade wielder possibly unlocking the heart of ventus

that lied within kairi?


is this too much...?

 

[Igshar]

I never said she came from anywhere else, hun. I'm just saying that's not what she's made up from.

But it is. Apparently a Spoiler cannot be nested within a spoiler... Didn't preview before posting. :< Anyway~ Basing off the quote from the other post before...
So let's take a look at that second sentence:
"But in the case for these two, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape."

The word “it” is behind most of the trouble here. What is the antecedent of "it”? Well, many assume it to be Kairi's heart.

But that is grammatically incorrect. "Kairi's heart" is in the prepositional phrase whereas "it" is in the independent clause. Because the prepositional phrase cuts in between the independent clause before the word "it," many people have that misconception that it=Kairi's heart (since “heart” is the closest noun that would be considered an “it.”). Plus, Kairi’s heart taking a special shape doesn’t really make sense in reference to special Nobodies, does it?

If we cut out the prepositional phrase to see the independent clause as a whole (which is fine), it reads, "But in the case for these two, it took a special shape." By reading the sentence as such, you can tell that the antecedent of "it" is in the previous sentence. So what noun could it be talking about?

The answer is "body." That is, the body ordinarily changes into a Nobody, “BUT” (used as a conjunction in the next sentence to refer to an exception) it (Sora’s “body”) took a special shape. When we read in it that context, the two sentences make sense grammatically as such:

Essentially when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a heartless, and on rare occasions their body changes into a Nobody. But in the case of Sora and Kairi, Sora's body took a special shape because Kairi's heart had been hidden within it.

This is irrefutable. You cannot deny that Sora’s body is what took a special shape.
Now it’s a matter of deciphering semantics.

So what does he mean by "special shape" here then? How does Sora’s body take a special shape?
Let’s think. He says that, ordinarily, the body changes into a Nobody, which would be considered the original person’s Nobody. BUT Sora’s didn’t, it took a special shape. Sora’s body taking on the shape of Roxas, his Nobody, would be normal. Catching on? His vessel did not take the shape of his own Nobody, but as Kairi’s Nobody. Namine.
So yeah, Namine is Sora's Body and Soul. .-.

Especially one whose Heart was no longer a proper Heartless, he'd get access to it through their relation, much like how the Memories were able to slide back and forth. Without a Heart of his own he wouldn't be able to wield it, arguably.

He would have gotten access to it more because of the Memories sliding back and forth rather than being Sora's Nobody. It can be argued that he used Ventus' Keyblade throughout Days, not Sora's, as he and Sora both used a Keyblade simultaneously for a period of time. This would mean that his relation to Sora could have had next to nothing to do with Roxas' ability to use the Keyblade at all. :\ To say that the fact it's a Kingdom Key would be the reasoning behind Sora and Roxas using the same Keyblade, I draw your attention to the end of Days when Roxas wields two Kingdom Keys at once, both of which confirmed to be completely real Keyblades. Because they are both real, they cannot be one Keyblade split in two.

He'd give him the Keyblade. The Keychain was up to Riku to decide, it seems... unless of course some weird, terrifying plot twist about Xehanort and DI comes into play. I mean, who knows, maybe the Paopu was actually Terra's Memories of the charms Aqua made for all three of them? lawl.

He'd give him the Keyblade, even thoughXion awakens Roxas' second one?
Eh...

Also, I'm hoping for that second one, in the spoiler. I don't want to believe that Riku would "willingly" create something so fruity. >_>;

 

[Smile]

But it is. Apparently a Spoiler cannot be nested within a spoiler... Didn't preview before posting. :< Anyway~ Basing off the quote from the other post before...

Grace already based a theory on a translation that proved wrong (the translation). And KH2 wasn't the best translation ever imo. What with "him" choosing Sora and all. So unless you have something better than grammer for me, especially since I've read translations that suggested otherwise - sorry, no dice.

He would have gotten access to it more because of the Memories sliding back and forth rather than being Sora's Nobody. It can be argued that he used Ventus' Keyblade throughout Days, not Sora's, as he and Sora both used a Keyblade simultaneously for a period of time. This would mean that his relation to Sora could have had next to nothing to do with Roxas' ability to use the Keyblade at all. :\ To say that the fact it's a Kingdom Key would be the reasoning behind Sora and Roxas using the same Keyblade, I draw your attention to the end of Days when Roxas wields two Kingdom Keys at once, both of which confirmed to be completely real Keyblades. Because they are both real, they cannot be one Keyblade split in two.

I fail to see why if it's a real Keyblade split in two, that the "offsprings" cannot be real ones. It would weaken it - like Diz said, Roxas had half of Sora's powers, and it might have other implications, no doubt, but the base, the core - is still a real Keyblade.

He'd give him the Keyblade, even thoughXion awakens Roxas' second one?
Eh...

Yes. Because if we assume that XH was the Heart that gave the other Keyblade, then we have whatever it is of Ven that's inside Roxas that needed to be 'awakened'. xion giving back whatever she had in her, which as we all know was - just that, a part of Ven, going by how Xigbar and Xemnas saw her - would be the equal of the "buried Memories" of XH wielding resurfacing. The Keyblades were already there, they needed a reason to 'wake up'.

Also, I'm hoping for that second one, in the spoiler. I don't want to believe that Riku would "willingly" create something so fruity. >_>;

Sorry they didn't make his home town Port Royal, really :\ the Islands are tropical islands. Hence, a Keyblade based on them would be fruity.
Deal.