• Spoiler tag your spoilers, please. That includes all unknown content from the DLC that was not shown in trailers or discussed in pre-release interviews.

What Xemnas said about members being inadequate still makes sense!



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Echoecho6

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
447
Awards
5
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Red Travels the Farthest
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
I was rewatching the scene and realized something. The exact quote he said is "However, through weakness of body, weakness of will, or weakness of trust. Most of the original members we had chosen for the Organization were inadequate."

"Most of the original members chosen"

So many people were complaining about the Organization members returning, and how it didn't make sense regarding this statement. However, Xemnas's words are still true.. The original members they had chosen were the apprentices, they were the original members. And he is right, most of them were not norted. Out of those people, Ienzo, Aeleus, Dilan, Lea, (even Evan until he will be needed) all were not worthy of being taken when Isa was. Luxord, Marluxia and the rest are worthy because they were chosen AFTER the fact. Marluxia was chosen by Xigbar himself and I am sure the others were picked out for a specific reason. The apprentices only got in because they happened to be there. Yea Marluxia was a traitor to the original plan, Demyx is lazy, and whatever else, but that doesn't mean anything. Marluxia was always apart of the plan anyway in the long run.

Basically what Xemnas said still holds true, and I hope people understand and can agree to this idea somewhat. (Though it was probably brought up by someone else a long time ago idk).
 

DarkosOverlord

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
2,808
Awards
4
Age
25
Location
Rome, Italy
  • Keyblade Master
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • The Foreteller
  • Savage Nymph
Mh... I think that with "original members" he was talking about the original 13 ones.

But even if he wasn't and you're right: the issue was less about the originals and more about the weaknesses he enlists, especially the infamous "weakness of trust" since more than half the new Organization is made up by the shadiest characters in the known galaxy. At least four members have "backstabber" written on their foreheads.
And even the non-traitorous ones raise some peplexity, due to the fact that... forget trust, they were basically forced to join. If Aquanort is a bonafide vessel, well, she was originally a nigh-incorruptible Warrior of Light. Which means Xehanort can apparently say "flip off" to every characterial trait you have that might be an obstacle to him, which means... why did they needed to discard members in the first place, if Xehanort can cover up for any weakness anyway?
Even without Aquanort, it was something Nomura confirmed long ago. Xehanort doesn't really choose you for something peculiar you might possess, he just wants the raw material and enough Darkness in your heart to subdue you (the only possible exception I can think of is Vanitas with his army of immortal creatures that Oldmanort cannot replicate) and then he will slowly but surely turn you into a copy of himself.

So yeah, it's nothing major, not for me at least, but I still think the excuse they came up with for leaving some Org members behind was a bit weak.
 

WhinyAcademic

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
473
Awards
0
Location
Korrasami Is Canon
That does make sense, I’ve been wondering about that myself, and had figured the new Organization would be comprised of mostly new characters. I’ve pegged that Marluxia and Larxene were picked to punish them for their treachery, Vexen because he was such an asset to the Organization, Demyx and Luxord for... crowd-filling reasons, I guess?
 

Twilight Lumiair

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
582
Awards
0
Age
19
Location
Virginia
I'm not quite sure that logic has much substance. Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to say all together, but being selected after the apprentices were brought in really doesn't make them anymore special or worthy based on what we know. Strong willed humanoid Nobodies were already seemingly rare in and of themselves (spawning a nobody in general requires an exceptionally strong will; spawning a humanoid nobody that retains so much of it's original self seems much rarer and more difficult to pull off). In fact, in the very scene you reference regarding Xigbar recruiting Marluxia, Zexion makes it very clear that the organization's primary goal at that time was to fill up their numbers so that they have more available hands (or "more hands on deck" as Zexion put it). This implies that they were more concerned about filling their numbers quickly as oppose to having specific prerequisites for an already rare form of Nobody. There's also no way of knowing who recruited who outside of the founding members and Marluxia himself, and we know that outside of Xemnas and Xigbar (maybe Siax as well, but he explicitly made his traitorous intentions clear on-screen, so I doubt it), nobody else was in on the true plan.

It also really doesn't help that Xemnas made arrangements for the those specific traitors to privately go to C.O. (along with other members who Siax personally instructed to go because they getting in the way of his own traitorous goals), and he (Xemnas) gave Axel direct orders to eliminate them quietly. What this means is that he saw them as untrustworthy and a threat, and he decided to make the first move and send the Organization's own personal assassin to get rid of them before they caused any problems. I have absolutely zero idea as to why Xemnas couldn't pick up on Siax and Axel's plan, yet was able to figure out what Marluxia and Larxene's were up to (and I'm guessing that it's cause he didn't know about Siax and Axel's plan that he chose to not do anything about it, but we don't know. Either way, Xemnas saw Marluxia and Larxene as antagonistic and not worth keeping, since he planned to and succeeded in killing them off). As for Larxene and Marluxia themselves, their primary goal was overthrowing the organization, and the only way they could get the power/"muscle" to do so was by obtaining the power of the Keyblade (Axel flat out says this to Marluxia, who doesn't even deny it cause he can't).

All things considered, nothing about this situation tells me that they would be candidates for the new organization, nor does it provide any reason (as far as I can tell) that they wouldn't be designated under "weakness of trust."
 
Last edited:

Way2Dawn

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
12
Awards
0
Age
30
I'm not quite sure that logic has much substance. Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to say all together, but being selected after the apprentices were brought in really doesn't make them anymore special or worthy based on what we know. Strong willed humanoid Nobodies were already seemingly rare in and of themselves (spawning a nobody in general requires an exceptionally strong will; spawning a humanoid nobody that retains so much of it's original self seems much rarer and more difficult to pull off). In fact, in the very scene you reference regarding Xigbar recruiting Marluxia, Zexion makes it very clear that the organization's primary goal at that time was to fill up their numbers so that they have more available hands (or "more hands on deck" as Zexion put it). This implies that they were more concerned about filling their numbers quickly as oppose to having specific prerequisites for an already rare form of Nobody. There's also no way of knowing who recruited who outside of the founding members and Marluxia himself, and we know that outside of Xemnas and Xigbar (maybe Siax as well, but he explicitly made his traitorous intentions clear on-screen, so I doubt it), and we know nobody else was in on the plan.

It also really doesn't help that Xemnas made arrangements for the those specific traitors to privately go to C.O. (along with other members who Siax personally instructed to go because they getting in the way of his own traitorous goals), and he (Xemnas) gave Axel direct orders to eliminate them quietly. What this means is that he saw them as untrustworthy and a threat, and he decided to make the first move and send the organizations own personal assassin to get rid of them first before they caused any problems. I have absolutely zero idea as to why Xemnas couldn't pick up on Siax and Axel's plan, but was able to figure out what Marluxia and Larxene's we're up to (and I'm guessing that it's cause he didn't know about Siax and Axel's plan that he chose to not do anything about it, but we don't know. Either way, Xemnas saw Marluxia and Larxene as antagonist and not worth since he planned to and succeeded in killing them off). As for Larxene and Marluxia themselves, their primary goal was overthrowing the organization, and the only way they could get the power/"muscle" to do so was by obtaining the power of the Keyblade (Axel flat out says this to Marluxia, who doesn't even deny it cause he can't).

All things considered, nothing about this situation tells me that they would be candidates for the new organization, nor does it provide any reason (as far as I can tell) that they wouldn't be designated under "weakness of trust."
If I may add on to this slightly, The idea of "trust" among the members of the organization is kind of a moot point isnt it? Xehanort plans on making them all copies of himself and able to be controlled, so I feel like once the process has begun, it doesnt really matter who he chooses, because he will end up controlling them anyway. Does that sound right?
 

WhinyAcademic

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
473
Awards
0
Location
Korrasami Is Canon
If I may add on to this slightly, The idea of "trust" among the members of the organization is kind of a moot point isnt it? Xehanort plans on making them all copies of himself and able to be controlled, so I feel like once the process has begun, it doesnt really matter who he chooses, because he will end up controlling them anyway. Does that sound right?
This is true. I really only feel like Xigbar and maaaaaaaaybe Isa were the only willing volunteers.
 
Top