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What else do you think they could've done to improve KH for the collection?



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Kevin Perez

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Thanks for the information, Master Spockanort, I can honestly say I did not know that! Yeah, I only meant to say the shot before the zoom in Riku's "Oh noes, my boyfriend would rather hang with talking duck and dog than me!" face was still dreaded fish face but yeah everything else is an improvement, other than it's just me being (too) nit-picky.
 

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Thanks for the information, Master Spockanort, I can honestly say I did not know that! Yeah, I only meant to say the shot before the zoom in Riku's "Oh noes, my boyfriend would rather hang with talking duck and dog than me!" face was still dreaded fish face but yeah everything else is an improvement, other it's just me being (too) nit-picky.

Don't worry. I think we all are a bit disappointed over the lack of detailed Riku in this scene. xD
 

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I don't know if its been mentioned, but while Re:CoM's gameplay looks okay, the voiced cutscenes are just upconverted from the pre-rendered scenes of the PS2 version, and while it doesn't look terrible, it looks cheap compared to KHFM and also means that the lip-syncing probably won't be corrected with the English dialogue this time around, either.
 

ajmrowland

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Except they're not even really character important. I'm sorry, but a scene about Roxas and Axel eating ice cream and talking about how they learned about friendship because of a mission they just did is NOT as important as something like Saix encountering Roxas.



Soooo you're disagreeing with me on something that you haven't even watched? o_0

Considering I was accurate in assuming the type of scene you were referring to, I didn't need to. I did the next best thing and recalled them from the ds game. And while it was unfortunate that particular moment you mentioned was axed, a good amount of the purpose for days as well as Roxas' character was that each world he visited taught him something new. Not paramount importance, but it certainly had enough value. Had they actually chosen to be more like a movie, I would've agreed mostly to not having those scenes included, as it would've probably been illogical to keep them for pacing reasons, but I personally still take something away from them that otherwise would be lost and, well, the more scenes of the three as friends, the more visible the problems they have in the end.

Now I'll go try and remember what that one scene brought to the table that wasn't apparent to players already?

I don't know if its been mentioned, but while Re:CoM's gameplay looks okay, the voiced cutscenes are just upconverted from the pre-rendered scenes of the PS2 version, and while it doesn't look terrible, it looks cheap compared to KHFM and also means that the lip-syncing probably won't be corrected with the English dialogue this time around, either.
I personally didn't notice, but then again it was a huge step upward and still on YouTube. But of course. It's easier to reuse the scenes they did rather than reprogram it for Ingame.


And I wouldn't put it past them to actually have had native HD video files for those scenes, despite being about as old as the gba version(the end credits there had stills from them). Assuming they do, there would be more compression than up scaling. And HD videos are always more likely to take up disc space than in-game stuff. That's why XIII-2 had only a few pre rendered scenes, as XIII's videos took up around 40gb.
They are called bullshots. Companies (in this example, Square Enix) edit screenshots of their games to look nice and are often not a true representation of the game itself. They are just meant to look pretty.


The scene you're talking about does have an update to it, mainly Maleficent's face and Riku's model, but yes fish face is still there in that one bit.
Which further adds to my distrust of marketing. I wouldn't care and probably wouldn't notice how the platform was compressed without back to back comparisons, but something like fish face vs full face is crossing a line.

But unfortunately, marketing materials are meant to sell a product; not represent it. :( and I'm especially sure many fans would've been sold on the improvements that are actually in the game.
 
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At this day and age, fish faces are unforgivable. It's outstanding. They were given time and current technology, yet they couldn't even fix a simple problem. Makes me wonder if they're going to even give KH3 75% of their efforts.
 

kupo1121

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Yeah, but you never answered my question. When was it really said in the games or the ultimanias?

??? Did you read my post lol? I posted it right above me saying it was less than 25 characters....unless for some reason you can't see the quote from Jiminy's Journal in KH2 o_O in which case I'll explain it then, in Merlin's entry in Jiminy's Journal in KH2 it says that Merlin taught Donald most of what he knows about magic :)
 

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I don't know if its been mentioned, but while Re:CoM's gameplay looks okay, the voiced cutscenes are just upconverted from the pre-rendered scenes of the PS2 version, and while it doesn't look terrible, it looks cheap compared to KHFM and also means that the lip-syncing probably won't be corrected with the English dialogue this time around, either.

I really hope not. It'd be a waste of 6+ months between now and Fall 2013. Now that is something I would not be able to forgive about this remaster for North America/Europe. Absolutely no excuse to pass it up this time.

At this day and age, fish faces are unforgivable. It's outstanding. They were given time and current technology, yet they couldn't even fix a simple problem. Makes me wonder if they're going to even give KH3 75% of their efforts.

I wouldn't use these HD Remasters as an example as they are only just an upscaling of old games. They did a lot to them but they weren't going to spend time changing fish face (especially since it was about five or so programmers actually doing the work.) It also seems like it has something to do with whatever engine these games run on if the Days cutscenes are anything to go by.

KH3 should definitely be different if only because it will be worked on by more than five programmers and some planners.
 

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Fish face would have been okay in 1.5 if they had updated every model in the game, however that would have taken a while.
I was watching it last night, and the eyes and mouth on Leon, Yuffie and Aerith were terrible because they looked completely low-res in a high definition game.

I do however accept fish face, just in a limited amount. I feel it's fine to use it if they use a long camera shot, however if that character is the focus of attention, it should be a proper face.
 

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??? Did you read my post lol? I posted it right above me saying it was less than 25 characters....unless for some reason you can't see the quote from Jiminy's Journal in KH2 o_O in which case I'll explain it then, in Merlin's entry in Jiminy's Journal in KH2 it says that Merlin taught Donald most of what he knows about magic :)
All you said was the highlighted portion of your post. I asked if you could confirm it for me. Now, thank you! I don't often read character entries except to reference first appearance. :D

I wouldn't use these HD Remasters as an example as they are only just an upscaling of old games. They did a lot to them but they weren't going to spend time changing fish face (especially since it was about five or so programmers actually doing the work.) It also seems like it has something to do with whatever engine these games run on if the Days cutscenes are anything to go by.


KH3 should definitely be different if only because it will be worked on by more than five programmers and some planners.


exactly. It's possible for days that they didn't even use an engine from their ps3 games, but maybe the bbs or KH2 one. Of course, that'd be assuming they even keep old engines after system support is dropped.

Fish face would have been okay in 1.5 if they had updated every model in the game, however that would have taken a while.
I was watching it last night, and the eyes and mouth on Leon, Yuffie and Aerith were terrible because they looked completely low-res in a high definition game.


I do however accept fish face, just in a limited amount. I feel it's fine to use it if they use a long camera shot, however if that character is the focus of attention, it should be a proper face.
Precisely. Though I've never really had a problem with fish face before, it really should be reserved for shots where the characters are smaller or even speech bubble scenes. I'd even accept it in some scenes that aren't too important, but it's the ones like sora before jumping off the plank that are the worst, as they require more subtle facial expressions.


If Tarzan is anything to go by, they'll have updated the faces at least for party member characters. Regarding the ff ones, I'm wondering why didn't do what they did with the princesses and replace them completely with their later counterpats.
 
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skyfoxx

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At this day and age, fish faces are unforgivable. It's outstanding. They were given time and current technology, yet they couldn't even fix a simple problem. Makes me wonder if they're going to even give KH3 75% of their efforts.

Current technology most likely has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a matter of they don't have enough animators or enough time to fully animate every single dialogue out there. Do you know how much time and effort it takes to make decent facial animation? It takes a lot, and sometimes you can not afford to fully animate every single shot out there perfectly.

And honestly, I don't get what the big deal is with the 2D faces. They really don't look that bad. They're not three-dimensional and their lips just move up and down, whooped-dee-doo. I would think that since a lot of KH fans watch anime, this wouldn't be that big of an issue to them as they'd be used to the anime featuring dialogue that just involves moving lips up and down.

You know, doing animation as a hobby of mine and seeing the documentary Indie Game: The Movie really made me see that gamers can be complete A-Holes about insignificant stuff. Games take time and effort to make. So don't go assuming that just because you didn't get your perfect little no-texture-face game means that they "are lazy" or "could've done it if they want to" because in all honesty, you do NOT know if they could've done it if they wanted to or not. Fact of the matter is we got what we got. If you don't like it, fine. But don't go saying that you can't forgive a team of HUMAN BEINGS (people seem to forget that games aren't made by robots >_>) who sacrificed time and effort just because you happen to dislike a few shots in which the character's faces are made entirely out of textures.

...Well, that was a much bigger response than I had intended. Don't take my post as a personal attack, I'm just tired of seeing people complain about the dumbest things and assume that if something isn't done perfectly it's because "the developers were lazy."
 
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That's my general pov right there but it doesn't take indie game for me to know how bad we can be.
 

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That's my general pov right there but it doesn't take indie game for me to know how bad we can be.
I've known that the gaming community as a whole was pretty bad before, but watching Indie Game: The Movie and seeing how much blood, sweat, and tears go into making games and then people complain to them about the dumbest things ever really put a new perspective in things. Goodness, I felt so bad for Phil Fish... For that matter, I feel bad for Valve. And all those who have worked hard to bring the Kingdom Hearts games that we have received in recent years. "Sorry that you worked super hard on this title and may have even had to sacrifice family time, but we're gonna totally blow it off as a side game and pointless filler and say that you guys are being stupid and lazy for not making KH3."

In the end, more than anything, THAT is the reason that I immediately despise anyone who complains about KH3 or even utters the words "They need to make KH3." When people say stuff like that, they are essentially spitting in the face of numerous developers that work hard on these titles without even giving them a chance.

I understand if a game is bad and has major flaws, then it's bad and has major flaws. But to go as far as to say the people themselves are being "lazy" or are "not even trying," THAT is what I have a problem with.
 
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ajmrowland

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Yeah. I've dabbled in 3d animation myself. Just the simplest low res model can take hours. And being a huge fan of animation of all kinds, I've heard a lot of firsthand accounts about how the most insignificant things can affect theproduction and prove to be huge obstacles. It's why I don't like this anti animation/video game bias In modern media.

and even though its slightly off topic, I for one, like AC3
 

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I would have put it on the Wii U, then remake 358/2 Days entirely so that the GamePad could have the touch screen. Then I'd refine the controls to bring it more in line with KH2.
 

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I would have put it on the Wii U, then remake 358/2 Days entirely so that the GamePad could have the touch screen. Then I'd refine the controls to bring it more in line with KH2.

While that sounds cool, it really only helps Days and makes it more complicated because SE would have had to remake Days as opposed to putting in just cutscenes. Don't get me wrong, I would like the idea of having it on Wii U, but then they'd probably have to make 2.5HD on Wii U and THEN people would expect KH3 on Wii U as well. So just putting 1.5 on Wii U for Days would open up a whole other can of worms I feel like :(
 

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While that sounds cool, it really only helps Days and makes it more complicated because SE would have had to remake Days as opposed to putting in just cutscenes. Don't get me wrong, I would like the idea of having it on Wii U, but then they'd probably have to make 2.5HD on Wii U and THEN people would expect KH3 on Wii U as well. So just putting 1.5 on Wii U for Days would open up a whole other can of worms I feel like :(
Case in point: Final Fantasy XIII.
 

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Well, I just finished the Shadow of the Colossus and ICO HD Collection and one of the features in there was that they had various videos. These included concept videos, behind the scenes videos, interviews with the developers, etc. It would've been really cool if they did something like that for this. Have various different staff members talk in-detail about certain things happening when developing the original KH1, making Final Mix, making the original Chain of Memories and remaking it for the PS2, etc. and then maybe show some of the beta trailers (like the KH1 Beta trailer that's floating around on YouTube) That would've been really cool for them to do. But I'm just a sucker for Extra Behind the Scenes content. That's one of the reasons I love the Extended editions of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, both the DVD and the Blu-Ray set. I just love seeing how things work and seeing all the hard work that goes in for a production.
 
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