Unbirth/Sense of Self Theory

[Avens]

I’ll admit I’m not up to date on the unbirth theories; with that in mind I’ll try to keep it short:
1. Unbirths are whole people who have been robbed of their memories, leading to the loss of their Sense of Self (SoS); ‘unbirth’ refers to the state before being born, when one has no SoS and no memories
2. Without a SoS or memories, they lose their form and forget that they are human. Their ‘lack of memories’ is filled with darkness, and they instinctively search for memories in order to fill that void.
3. Unbirths prey on people, riping out their memories, and because of this, the SoS. These people become unbirths in turn. (Although it is possible to be a partial unbirth, if not all your memories have been taken. However, like zombies, if you have been attacked you will eventually become one because the ‘lack of memories’ in your heart will eventually consume the rest of it.)
4. The memories which an unbirth steals flow to their hearts, but are immediately lost to the darkness there. Eventually, an unbirth will ‘starve’, and fade into darkness. Because of this, added to the fact that unbirths do not have the intelligence to rest their bodies, as opposed to nobodies, they have a high mortality rate. This is why there are no unbirths after BBS.
5. A BwHoPL who is attacked by an unborth will not necessarily lose their SoS, because their hearts cannot be taken by darkness. They become people without memories.

And as for how that fits into BBS:
1. MX has two goals: to be immortal, and to be all powerful.
2. MX experimented with displacing a person’s SoS, in order to see if he could plant his into a younger body, and live on that way. These experiments created the unbirths.
3. Then, he manifested memories of his younger self as the DS, much like an Organization member manifests their weapon using memories and energy.
4. MX went searching for PoH / BwHoPL in order to summon KH, a source of great power, and also to make a Heart Unlocker, which he could use to remove the memories of his chosen ‘host’ and insert his own.
5. Thus, MX can in a sense call the DS his apprentice. This is also why he asks Terra if he wants to be a Master, which would also technically be true.

Won't be able to post for another two hours, but I'll try to catch up then.

 

[KenowaX]

3. Then, he manifested memories of his younger self as the DS, much like an Organization member manifests their weapon using memories and energy.

Except DS is supposed to be MX's apprentice from the start.

 

[Avens]

Except DS is supposed to be MX's apprentice from the start.

Sure, but what's wrong with it being himself, all along? His face hasn't been shown yet in the trailers, plus, there's the scene from the secret ending where he comes out of MX. I suppose I was trying to account for that, and also to explain how the merge with Terra takes place.

 

[Smile]

1. Unbirths are whole people who have been robbed of their memories, leading to the loss of their Sense of Self (SoS); ‘unbirth’ refers to the state before being born, when one has no SoS and no memories

=w= hello, theory I've been ranting about for a while. I think I'm gonna enjoy this.

2. Without a SoS or memories, they lose their form and forget that they are human. Their ‘lack of memories’ is filled with darkness, and they instinctively search for memories in order to fill that void.

D: that's another theory of mine I posted recently even, with the Darkness replacing the Memories.

3. Unbirths prey on people, riping out their memories, and because of this, the SoS. These people become unbirths in turn. (Although it is possible to be a partial unbirth, if not all your memories have been taken. However, like zombies, if you have been attacked you will eventually become one because the ‘lack of memories’ in your heart will eventually consume the rest of it.)

That could certainly explain Ven. Having been attacked by Unbirths, his Memories eventually tore apart. Hence why he forgot MX ^u^

4. The memories which an unbirth steals flow to their hearts, but are immediately lost to the darkness there. Eventually, an unbirth will ‘starve’, and fade into darkness. Because of this, added to the fact that unbirths do not have the intelligence to rest their bodies, as opposed to nobodies, they have a high mortality rate. This is why there are no unbirths after BBS.

Two things about this part.
1) I didn't really get the concept of Starving.
2) You'd think that if they'd reach the point of starvation, that they'll attack even more people, thus creating more Unbirths. Rather than dying out, they should reproduce exponentially. And if they ever do reach the stage of dying out, it would be because they have turned the entire human slave into Unbirths, and all those Unbirths died out, leaving nothing of humanity.

5. A BwHoPL who is attacked by an unborth will not necessarily lose their SoS, because their hearts cannot be taken by darkness. They become people without memories.

Again, Ven XD;;; I'm loving this.

And as for how that fits into BBS:

Oh it already does.

1. MX has two goals: to be immortal, and to be all powerful.

... v.v there, you ruined it. We've nothing saying that. If anything, from the trailers he seems to have a somewhat nobler goal, regardless of how evil it may seem to us who look at the game from TAV's point of view.

2. MX experimented with displacing a person’s SoS, in order to see if he could plant his into a younger body, and live on that way. These experiments created the unbirths.

3. Then, he manifested memories of his younger self as the DS, much like an Organization member manifests their weapon using memories and energy.

However, manifestations of Memories as living beings was never seen outside Castle Oblivion.

4. MX went searching for PoH / BwHoPL in order to summon KH, a source of great power, and also to make a Heart Unlocker, which he could use to remove the memories of his chosen ‘host’ and insert his own.

p=p the Heart Unlocker got in here how?

5. Thus, MX can in a sense call the DS his apprentice. This is also why he asks Terra if he wants to be a Master, which would also technically be true.

He never really asked him if he wanted to be a Master, though. He said that those who wield Darkness have no right for Masterhood.

The first part was good. Lots of stuff I think make a lot of sense. However, the second part, beyond being baseless for the most of it, had nothing to do with the first part :\

 

[.Oji]

1. Unbirths are whole people who have been robbed of their memories, leading to the loss of their Sense of Self (SoS); ‘unbirth’ refers to the state before being born, when one has no SoS and no memories

Just call it memories. The "SoS" thing is silly.

2. Without a SoS or memories, they lose their form and forget that they are human. Their ‘lack of memories’ is filled with darkness, and they instinctively search for memories in order to fill that void.

Bold part didn't happen to Sora or Repliku.

3. Unbirths prey on people, riping out their memories, and because of this, the SoS. These people become unbirths in turn. (Although it is possible to be a partial unbirth, if not all your memories have been taken. However, like zombies, if you have been attacked you will eventually become one because the ‘lack of memories’ in your heart will eventually consume the rest of it.)

See # 2.

Pretty sure they "prey on people" for a different reason.

4. The memories which an unbirth steals flow to their hearts, but are immediately lost to the darkness there.

How? Darkness of the heart disables memories to take refuge there, now?

Eventually, an unbirth will ‘starve’, and fade into darkness. Because of this, added to the fact that unbirths do not have the intelligence to rest their bodies, as opposed to nobodies, they have a high mortality rate. This is why there are no unbirths after BBS.

Pure conjecture.

I would think they'd attack much more if they reached the point of starving, consequently making more.

5. A BwHoPL who is attacked by an unborth will not necessarily lose their SoS, because their hearts cannot be taken by darkness. They become people without memories.

Taking memories is affiliated with darkness? Or am I comprehending that wrong?

1. MX has two goals: to be immortal, and to be all powerful.

Okay.

2. MX experimented with displacing a person’s SoS, in order to see if he could plant his into a younger body, and live on that way. These experiments created the unbirths.

In other words, replacing memories created unbirths. Okay, gotcha.

3. Then, he manifested memories of his younger self as the DS, much like an Organization member manifests their weapon using memories and energy.

The former part sounds farfetched.

4. MX went searching for PoH / BwHoPL in order to summon KH, a source of great power, and also to make a Heart Unlocker, which he could use to remove the memories of his chosen ‘host’ and insert his own.

The latter part sounds farfetched. How did Heart Unlocker come into this? lol

5. Thus, MX can in a sense call the DS his apprentice. This is also why he asks Terra if he wants to be a Master, which would also technically be true.

Eh.

I'm not refuting the possibility that unborns/unbirths may be crafted from memories or what have you. Your theory just seems pretty choppy - how you explained it, anyway.

EDIT: Ninja'd, goddamn.

 

[Smile]

Just call it memories. The "SoS" thing is silly.

Roxas and Namine prove the two aren't one and the same. They both lack Memories of Sora and Kairi (Namine specifically), and yet they have something holding them together as what they are.

Bold part didn't happen to Sora or Repliku.

Sora and Repliku forgot. The way he portrays it (at least as far as I managed to understand it, at least) is that the Memories were destroyed. Eaten away by the Darkness that consumed them. It's hardly the same. They only had their Memories taken apart, but the Memories were still there, and they lacked the Darkness that actively corrupted their beings.

EDIT: Ninja'd, goddamn.

:lol:

 

[.Oji]

Roxas and Namine prove the two aren't one and the same. They both lack Memories of Sora and Kairi (Namine specifically), and yet they have something holding them together as what they are.

Fair enough.

Sora and Repliku forgot. The way he portrays it (at least as far as I managed to understand it, at least) is that the Memories were destroyed.

Namine did just that to Repliku. =/

Eaten away by the Darkness that consumed them. It's hardly the same. They only had their Memories taken apart, but the Memories were still there, and they lacked the Darkness that actively corrupted their beings.

If all it takes to create a unbirth is to let darkness corrode an individuals memories, then what's stopping them from appearing after BBS?

 

[Smile]

Namine did just that to Repliku. =/

No, she tore them asunder, but as Repliku himself admits to later on, he still remembers Sora and Namine. He still remembers his 'Promise'. She didn't "eat the Memories up", she just delinked them. Thoroughly and brutally, but nothing more.
And if you really wanna be nitpicky, then I'll let myself say that unlike what is suggested that the Unbirths have done here, she might've destroyed his Memories, but left his Sense of Self in tact. Going by the notion they're two separate things, it's ok.

If all it takes to create a unbirth is to let darkness corrode an individuals memories, then what's stopping them from appearing after BBS?

Way I see it, they might even be Hearts with a "Nobody" cast off somewhere. To me, BBS is a rule-breaker, and more than that, a rule-setter. It changed things, so BBS happening in and of itself is more than enough reason to me why they're not around afterward.
You can also ask why there are no more Keyblade Wielders other than the handful we know of, that even they have their Keyblades' roots back in BBS. It's the same answer - I don't know, aside from BBS happening at all. So I don't think that at this point in time, it's an issue.

 

[Memory Master]

I must say that this is one of the best if not the best theory I have ever hear regarding the unbirths. You did a very good job on this my friend.

I did some research and well I thought of something that may support your theory even more.

If we look at the unbirth symbol it seems to be an empty heart. So if we took memories from the heart it would leave an empty void as seen in the unbirth symbol. So this theory is even supported by the unbirth symbol.

 

[Avens]

@Rain, glad you liked part one. I didn't realize you'd already said something similar, sorry. Unbirth theories tend to be repetative, so I stopped going through them all...
Part 2 is something I came up with late last night, and I figured I'd tack it on, which is why it's not as good.

Yes, so basically, in the process of an unbirth taking away memories ect, they leave behind a part of the heart which has nothing in it. This part fills with darkness, and any subsequent memories which the new unbirth might steal fall into that darkness and are lost. It's not so much that the memories themselves are changed, but that there's a lack of them. So, to create an unbirth after BBS you would, as Rain says, have to actually destroy memories, or at least remove them so that there is a hole left behind.

Forget the 'starving' thing, I'll focus on the other part of that point (which makes more sense). Heartless don't have bodies to take care of, so although they are instinctive in nature, they don't run out of energy. Nobodies, however, have to maintain their form by taking rests. The problem for unbirths is that they have a body, but not the nature to know when to stop. So an unbirth attacks instinctively until it wears itself out, and then it dies.

 

[Smile]

I kind of think that beings corrupted so much by Darkness won't really have to eat :\ you're using too much physical logic, imo.

 

[Avens]

Starving refered to not haiving memories, or 'starving for memories', which would have been another way for the unbirths to die out faster. But I no longer like that, because then you'd have heartless dying of not having hearts, starving by lack of heart, right?

So I guess I'm sticking with the other explaination, that they don't know when to rest, and die of exhaustion in pursuit of the memories they lack.

 

[Smile]

Heartless are the Hearts. But they too lack Memories, so your basic logic still holds as to why you shouldn't go along with the original concept

And I still dislike how physical this is :\

 

[Avens]

Heartless are the Hearts.

...can't believe I wrote that... ug

And I still dislike how physical this is :\

Well, there's a precedent that we're seeing with the nobodies, for example:

Xigbar: "With this, the organisation has eleven people. We've reached decent numbers, so. I asked Lexeaus to fill in for me just for today, so I could have a holiday. For the sake of tomorrow's job, you know."
Zexion: “Then do rest up in order to demonstrate your excellent ability to its fullest."

Xaldin:“Won’t you keep it in moderation? It’s loud, I can’t sleep.”
Demyx:“Not being able to sleep cause of the noise is kinda, well, human-like, isn’t it?”
Xaldin:“Fool. Nobodies need rest too."

Xemnas: "It's an important Organization member. I'm going to take a rest now." (<--although, could be something else)

Not sure if that's what you meant, but resting is so important that every member has a room for sleeping in... so yeah.

 

[Memory Master]

Over all I think this theory is very good and the point I made about the unbirth symbol makes this theory seem even more likely.

 

[Avens]

Glad you like it^^ In another thread, it's pointed out that the tips of the unbirth symbol look like the cards in CoM, too.

 

[Smile]

"Because they do", said the person that pointed it out :96:

 

[Avens]

Was about to go off to give credit. As you were saying, adds to this theory a lot.

 

[Memory Master]

I wonder. Remember the scene in the new trailer where Axel and Xion were in a white room messing with a computer and the scene where Axel was in a white room reading what looks to be a report?

I wonder if MX was once lived at castle oblivion and that's where he ended up creating the undirths. If so the computer and the report in the white room could have belonged to MX. We may find out some stuff about the unbirths in days.

 

[Zeagal]

I would like it muchly for the Unbirths to tie in with CO. Especially with the whole Xion and Namine situation.

According to this theory...people are the unbirth's right? They don't come from someone?