The Treatment of Disney Villains in KH3



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Kirankrt

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Has me worried for their future in KH4. Like I can’t be excited if they announce Dr Facilier becasue I’ll be too worried that they’ll replace him with a Heartless after building him up as a boss.

Anyone else a bit worried? Not on Facilier, just on the treatment of the villains in general.
 

Zettaflare

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Supposedly Disney forbids certain Disney villains from becoming punching bags if they arent fighters. That's why Randall wasn't a boss and was relegated to Jigsaw and Gothel became a heartless.

I'm not sure Dr. Falicer would fall under the non fighter category but with Disney it's hard to be sure
 

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Absolutely... this is not the Kingdom Hearts I grew up with, lol; replace timeless Disney villains with boring anime characters *shots fired*.

I might be talking out of my ass, but KH has the potential to be very different going forward; they may take a 10-year hiatus (with KH3 DLC of course), come back and get rid of the intro stage>8 Disney worlds>final stage formula.

Supposedly Disney forbids certain Disney villains from becoming punching bags if they arent fighters. That's why Randall wasn't a boss and was relegated to Jigsaw and Gothel became a heartless.

I'm not sure Dr. Falicer would fall under the non fighter category but with Disney it's hard to be sure
But how coincidental is it that every Disney villain in KH1 was a boss whereas like only two were in KH3? They've probably changed their tune or treat older characters differently than new.

But honestly, as I said earlier, this is a different Kingdom Hearts than KH1; if Toy Story was a world in KH1, you better bet your ass Zurg or Stinky Pete would've been there.
 

Kirankrt

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Supposedly Disney forbids certain Disney villains from becoming punching bags if they arent fighters. That's why Randall wasn't a boss and was relegated to Jigsaw and Gothel became a heartless.

I'm not sure Dr. Falicer would fall under the non fighter category but with Disney it's hard to be sure
But even so, Randall coukd have worked as a Sabor like boss, using invisibility and speed to attack as he did in the films. Granted not a fully fledged boss but rather like a ambush like enemy with half a health bar that retreats when beaten.
 

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I do like the Heartless bosses they are very creative but feel they need to go back to having Disney bosses to bring back some charm. I thought it was hard but I loved fighting against Ursula/giant Ursula in KH1
 

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Has me worried for their future in KH4. Like I can’t be excited if they announce Dr Facilier becasue I’ll be too worried that they’ll replace him with a Heartless after building him up as a boss.

Anyone else a bit worried? Not on Facilier, just on the treatment of the villains in general.
That was one of the major disappointments for me in KH3 was that there were essentially no Disney bosses. The biggest name you can really say is Davey Jones and he is definitely NOT an iconic villain.

KH3 went the 1 world visit, which was fine, but if that was the case they should have followed the KH1 design - 2 boss fights. If Disney didn't want the villains to be "punching bags" or killed because of the fight, they could have easily had the villain be the first fight, then after you beat them, they find a way to escape and then the giant heartless is summoned.

For example: Sora/Donald/Goofy enter Rapunzel's tower when Rapunzel and Flynn are captured. The powers that Marluxia gave her allows her to sneak around (a la "Mother Knows Best, they could have even included it as the fight music) and attack. After the fight, she shoves Sora and the others out the window. While they recover from that, the scene with Flynn cutting Rapunzel's hair happens, then Gothel falls out the window and turns into the giant heartless just as Sora is heading back up.

I really hope that future games include a majority of Disney bosses. I always felt like that was what separated a numbered title from a side game.
 

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I don’t mind Hans and Gothel becoming Heartless since they’re pretty normal people with no real abilities or powers, and their Heartless were pretty damn cool. Davy Jones and the Kraken felt like it was made to be in KH, though I have to say, it was kinda humiliating to see Jones punched around so easily in the boss battle when in the films (and the cutscenes) he’s an unstoppable force that has almost no trouble whatsoever, but it’s fine. Titans were great.

I don’t think Randall would’ve sufficed as a final boss fight unless he fought alongside his Unversed. Zurg definitely could’ve worked in the fantasy toy map arena conjured by YMX.

Overall I think I’m satisfied with what we got, and a trouble of the series is that it adapts plenty of movies where the villain isn’t a big fighter or has powers, so they have to make their own Heartless boss. That said, 3D got grating in that pretty much every boss was a Dream Eater. Sure, Frollo was an old man, but he could’ve pulled a Scar and kept his old form but with new powers and all, or pull a Clayton and fight alongside the Wargoyle.

I’m not too bummed about Zurg’s exclusion as he could easily show up in a later game. Other bosses I’d like are Facilier + the Friends on the Other Side, Rourke in his mutated crystal form, Gaston (who could clobber you without powers I’m sure), Tamatoa, Te Ka, Hopper, Syndrome and the Omnidroid... I’d they really go for it, we still have a lot of bosses left. But yeah, I prefer more villain fights to Heartless bosses.
 

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I don’t mind Hans and Gothel becoming Heartless since they’re pretty normal people with no real abilities or powers, and their Heartless were pretty damn cool. Davy Jones and the Kraken felt like it was made to be in KH, though I have to say, it was kinda humiliating to see Jones punched around so easily in the boss battle when in the films (and the cutscenes) he’s an unstoppable force that has almost no trouble whatsoever, but it’s fine. Titans were great.

I don’t think Randall would’ve sufficed as a final boss fight unless he fought alongside his Unversed. Zurg definitely could’ve worked in the fantasy toy map arena conjured by YMX.

Overall I think I’m satisfied with what we got, and a trouble of the series is that it adapts plenty of movies where the villain isn’t a big fighter or has powers, so they have to make their own Heartless boss. That said, 3D got grating in that pretty much every boss was a Dream Eater. Sure, Frollo was an old man, but he could’ve pulled a Scar and kept his old form but with new powers and all, or pull a Clayton and fight alongside the Wargoyle.

I’m not too bummed about Zurg’s exclusion as he could easily show up in a later game. Other bosses I’d like are Facilier + the Friends on the Other Side, Rourke in his mutated crystal form, Gaston (who could clobber you without powers I’m sure), Tamatoa, Te Ka, Hopper, Syndrome and the Omnidroid... I’d they really go for it, we still have a lot of bosses left. But yeah, I prefer more villain fights to Heartless bosses.
Interestingly Monstropolis is the only Disney world with just one boss. I think Randall would have been the mid boss if Disney allowed it.

Would have made sense for Randall to lose to the group the first time and come back again with his traps and slime Unversed
 

Kirankrt

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I don’t mind Hans and Gothel becoming Heartless since they’re pretty normal people with no real abilities or powers, and their Heartless were pretty damn cool. Davy Jones and the Kraken felt like it was made to be in KH, though I have to say, it was kinda humiliating to see Jones punched around so easily in the boss battle when in the films (and the cutscenes) he’s an unstoppable force that has almost no trouble whatsoever, but it’s fine. Titans were great.

I don’t think Randall would’ve sufficed as a final boss fight unless he fought alongside his Unversed. Zurg definitely could’ve worked in the fantasy toy map arena conjured by YMX.

Overall I think I’m satisfied with what we got, and a trouble of the series is that it adapts plenty of movies where the villain isn’t a big fighter or has powers, so they have to make their own Heartless boss. That said, 3D got grating in that pretty much every boss was a Dream Eater. Sure, Frollo was an old man, but he could’ve pulled a Scar and kept his old form but with new powers and all, or pull a Clayton and fight alongside the Wargoyle.

I’m not too bummed about Zurg’s exclusion as he could easily show up in a later game. Other bosses I’d like are Facilier + the Friends on the Other Side, Rourke in his mutated crystal form, Gaston (who could clobber you without powers I’m sure), Tamatoa, Te Ka, Hopper, Syndrome and the Omnidroid... I’d they really go for it, we still have a lot of bosses left. But yeah, I prefer more villain fights to Heartless bosses.
Well, to be fair I think Randall could easily worked as Sabor like boss, ambushing you randomly.

And you know what? I been saying for years Frollo could have easily just been precisely that (or just a floatsam and Jetsam like obstacle during the boss) and it’s refreshing to hear someone else think the same.

I agree with Zurg.
 
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I think it will depend on whether the Disney villains are fighters, along with whether or not Disney/Pixar and to an extent, Nomura and the development team will pull a "Randall" or "CLU" on those forthcoming villains either because of protectiveness or just laziness.

I think the number of KH3 Disney bosses was a step above DDD Disney bosses but far below the number we got in the first game and KH2.

Here's to hope in the next games we get a good number of Disney bosses (mainly villains) we fight as a boss.

Supposedly Disney forbids certain Disney villains from becoming punching bags if they arent fighters. That's why Randall wasn't a boss and was relegated to Jigsaw and Gothel became a heartless.

I'm not sure Dr. Falicer would fall under the non fighter category but with Disney it's hard to be sure
I think the Disney antagonists in the KH series come down to three categories:

  1. Those that aren't really meant to be fighters (Frollo, Lady Tremaine, The Queen (Snow White), Gothel, and Beckett) and personally I'm alright not fighting these particular villains cause tbh they aren't meant to be fighters in their films of origin and they lack the sort of combat and abilities to be bosses, mainly the former 4
  2. Those that fans want to fight with and whack a keyblade in the game but ended up either not appearing or not becoming bosses due to Disney and/or Pixar being VERY protective with them and not allowing them to become a punching bag (e.g. Randall).
  3. Those that can fight in their film of origin but we're made a joke and not fightable in the game by Nomura and the Development staff either due to laziness or whatever it was they did during development (e.g. CLU)
As for Dr. Facilier even if he may not be a fighter but he does rely on using his Friends on the Other Side and also using his Voodoo to create illusions to deceive his foes so he could be possibly work but it just will depend on Disney though and whether they will pull a "CLU" or "Randall" on him, mainly the former.

Interestingly enough Oogie Boogie from Nightmare Before Christmas wasn't even a fighter in the original movie as he only just tortures others, set booby traps to stop his enemies and flee like a pansy at the last resot when his foes manage to stop his traps but he did ended up becoming a boss in the game.

But even so, Randall coukd have worked as a Sabor like boss, using invisibility and speed to attack as he did in the films. Granted not a fully fledged boss but rather like a ambush like enemy with half a health bar that retreats when beaten.
I envision if Randall were to be a boss it would've been a mix between the Sabor and the Oogie Boogie Fight where like you said he can use his invisibility and speed to attack you and have the traps in the Monster's Inc. basement be on par with the Oogie Traps from KH1 and KH2.

I really hope that future games include a majority of Disney bosses. I always felt like that was what separated a numbered title from a side game.
Here's to hope that in the next KH games Disney and/or Pixar along with Nomura and the development team handled them much better with NO restrictions and pure laziness.
 
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Interestingly Monstropolis is the only Disney world with just one boss. I think Randall would have been the mid boss if Disney allowed it.
Actually, Kingdom of Corona and Monstropolis were the ONLY Disney worlds in KH3 with one boss. The rest of the other Disney worlds in the game either had either 2-3 Bosses (Toy Box and Arendelle) 4 Bosses (ONLY San Fransokyo), or 5 Bosses (Olympus and The Caribbean)

Honestly, It would've been nice to have a mid-boss for Corona and Monstropolis respectively, even the Stabbington Brothers would've been a nice mid-boss for Corona, it's just unfortunate that Marluxia had to replace them and EVERYONE saw that a mile away. :cautious:

I don’t mind Hans and Gothel becoming Heartless since they’re pretty normal people with no real abilities or powers, and their Heartless were pretty damn cool. Davy Jones and the Kraken felt like it was made to be in KH, though I have to say, it was kinda humiliating to see Jones punched around so easily in the boss battle when in the films (and the cutscenes) he’s an unstoppable force that has almost no trouble whatsoever, but it’s fine. Titans were great.

I don’t think Randall would’ve sufficed as a final boss fight unless he fought alongside his Unversed. Zurg definitely could’ve worked in the fantasy toy map arena conjured by YMX.

Overall I think I’m satisfied with what we got, and a trouble of the series is that it adapts plenty of movies where the villain isn’t a big fighter or has powers, so they have to make their own Heartless boss. That said, 3D got grating in that pretty much every boss was a Dream Eater. Sure, Frollo was an old man, but he could’ve pulled a Scar and kept his old form but with new powers and all, or pull a Clayton and fight alongside the Wargoyle.

I’m not too bummed about Zurg’s exclusion as he could easily show up in a later game. Other bosses I’d like are Facilier + the Friends on the Other Side, Rourke in his mutated crystal form, Gaston (who could clobber you without powers I’m sure), Tamatoa, Te Ka, Hopper, Syndrome and the Omnidroid... I’d they really go for it, we still have a lot of bosses left. But yeah, I prefer more villain fights to Heartless bosses.
I absolutely agree, with your thoughts.

I'm okay with not fighting Mother Gothel and Hans as they lack the powers/abilities that the other Disney villains had as one uses a blade, the other a sword and both would be defeated in an instant by Sora, Donald and Goofy in an instant. Same can be said for Bellwether if we get a world for Zootopia in a future game.

Randall, while I'm disappointed and salty we didn't get to fight him but when compared to CLU (which I'll explain further in next paragraph) I can understand why he isn't a boss as the dec
ision was made by Pixar who was VERY protective of him and flat out didn't want him to be beaten up with a Keyblade. Same can be said on Zurg being excluded since like with any Pixar film the antagonists aren't the villains but the protagonist experiencing change

Dream Drop Distance was frustrating, while I was alright not fighting Frollo cause it would not be a fair fight fighting an old man who flails his sword, I was disappointed we didn't fight the big bad himself: CLU. Sure Rinzler was a fun fight and glad he's a boss, it just baffles me that CLU wasn't even fought as a boss as he was the instigator for turning Tron into Rinzler and massacring the ISO's I don't know who made the decision on not making CLU a boss but I blame it on the development staff and Nomura. It's a good thing that Nomura and his staff didn't pull a "CLU" on Davy Jones.


Here's to hope in the next KH games we get to fight more Disney Bosses, I'd love to have a boss fight against Dr. Facilier, Tamatoa, and Te Ka. Also, hate to bring you down but don't expect Syndrome and Hopper to be in it due to their demises in the film, as like in the case with the Toy Story and especially the Monster's Inc. world I expect that future Pixar-based worlds will have an original story instead of being a retelling of the movie.
 
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Zettaflare

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Actually, Kingdom of Corona and Monstropolis were the ONLY Disney worlds in KH3 with one boss. The rest of the other Disney worlds in the game either had either 2-3 Bosses (Toy Box and Arendelle) 4 Bosses (ONLY San Fransokyo), or 5 Bosses (Olympus and The Caribbean)

Honestly, It would've been nice to have a mid-boss for Corona and Monstropolis respectively, even the Stabbington Brothers would've been a nice mid-boss for Corona, it's just unfortunate that Marluxia had to replace them and EVERYONE saw that a mile away. :cautious:



I absolutely agree, with your thoughts.

I'm okay with not fighting Mother Gothel and Hans as they lack the powers/abilities that the other Disney villains had as one uses a blade, the other a sword and both would be defeated in an instant by Sora, Donald and Goofy in an instant. Same can be said for Bellwether if we get a world for Zootopia in a future game.

Randall, while I'm disappointed and salty we didn't get to fight him but when compared to CLU (which I'll explain further in next paragraph) I can understand why he isn't a boss as the dec
ision was made by Pixar who was VERY protective of him and flat out didn't want him to be beaten up with a Keyblade. Same can be said on Zurg being excluded since like with any Pixar film the antagonists aren't the villains but the protagonist experiencing change

Dream Drop Distance was frustrating, while I was alright not fighting Frollo cause it would not be a fair fight fighting an old man who flails his sword, I was disappointed we didn't fight the big bad himself: CLU. Sure Rinzler was a fun fight and glad he's a boss, it just baffles me that CLU wasn't even fought as a boss as he was the instigator for turning Tron into Rinzler and massacring the ISO's I don't know who made the decision on not making CLU a boss but I blame it on the development staff and Nomura. It's a good thing that Nomura and his staff didn't pull a "CLU" on Davy Jones.


Here's to hope in the next KH games we get to fight more Disney Bosses, I'd love to have a boss fight against Dr. Facilier, Tamatoa, and Te Ka. Also, hate to bring you down but don't expect Syndrome and Hopper to be in it due to their demises in the film, as like in the case with the Toy Story and especially the Monster's Inc. world I expect that future Pixar-based worlds will have an original story instead of being a retelling of the movie.
Corona had that horse cart heartless as a midboss before you reach the kingdom
 
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Corona had that horse cart heartless as a midboss before you reach the kingdom
It still was a recurring enemy afterward compared to the Rock Troll Heartless fought in Olympus and Arendelle and the Metal Troll in San Fransokyo. In fact I say the carriage Horse heartless is very reminiscent to the Skeleton Ice Dragons that SDG fought in Arendelle.

Frankly, both Corona and Monstropolis are the ONLY ones with one boss respectively with the rest of the world mostly being Mob fights against Heartless and/or Nobodies/Unversed before culminating with a final boss at the end of their respective worlds.
 
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MATGSY

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I think the Disney antagonists in the KH series come down to three categories:

  1. Those that aren't really meant to be fighters (Frollo, Lady Tremaine, The Queen (Snow White), Gothel, and Beckett) and personally I'm alright not fighting these particular villains cause tbh they aren't meant to be fighters in their films of origin and they lack the sort of combat and abilities to be bosses, mainly the former 4.
With Termaine there's the Cinderella III route of her getting the Fairy Godmother's wand, making her powerful. Or maybe just have the protagonist shrunken down again & fighting regular sized Termaine on top of like a dining table or something.

Dream Drop Distance was frustrating, while I was alright not fighting Frollo cause it would not be a fair fight fighting an old man who flails his sword, I was disappointed we didn't fight the big bad himself: CLU. Sure Rinzler was a fun fight and glad he's a boss, it just baffles me that CLU wasn't even fought as a boss as he was the instigator for turning Tron into Rinzler and massacring the ISO's I don't know who made the decision on not making CLU a boss but I blame it on the development staff and Nomura. It's a good thing that Nomura and his staff didn't pull a "CLU" on Davy Jones.
You could throw in Coachman or Monstro for PP. At the time we still didn't have BBSFM internationally so it would've been nice if Monstro was added to DDD to make up for it. Coachman could've been riding a coach driven by donkey dream eaters (yo, why are there no donkey dream eaters?) & it's technically the coach with the HP bars that you're attacking.

Chernabog sucked in DDD while we're at it. Apparently, he became a Mario boss that goes down in 3 hits. & yet DDD was also a game that gave us Disney villains for the tutorial boss & superboss, so it wasn't a complete wash-out.

It still was a recurring enemy afterward compared to the Rock Troll Heartless fought in Olympus and Arendelle and the Metal Troll in San Fransokyo. Frankly, both Corona and Monstropolis are the ONLY ones with one boss with the rest of the world mostly being Mob fights against Heartless and/or Nobodies/Unversed before culminating with a final boss at the end of their respective worlds.
The particular version with 3-4 stacks was unique to that 1 time, its a boss that gets demoted to flunky later in the game. Happens in RPGs.
 
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Chernabog sucked in DDD while we're at it. Apparently, he became a Mario boss that goes down in 3 hits. & yet DDD was also a game that gave us Disney villains for the tutorial boss & superboss, so it wasn't a complete wash-out.
The amount of Disney bosses in DDD were far below the number we got in KH3 (8 Disney bosses) and especially past entries.
 

MATGSY

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The amount of Disney bosses in DDD were far below the number we got in KH3 (8 Disney bosses) and especially past entries.
DDD
1. Ursula
2. Rinzler
3. Beagle Boys
4. Pete
5. Chernabog
6. Julius

KH3
1. Rock Titan
2. Other Titans (if I'm lumping the Beagle Boys together, I'm lumping the titans)
3. Marshmallow
4. Krakken & Davy Jones
5. Dark Baymax

Are we counting Phantom Blot & the boxing gorilla from the Classic Kingdoms games by any chance?
 
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DDD
1. Ursula
2. Rinzler
3. Beagle Boys
4. Pete
5. Chernabog
6. Julius

KH3
1. Rock Titan
2. Other Titans (if I'm lumping the Beagle Boys together, I'm lumping the titans)
3. Marshmallow
4. Krakken & Davy Jones
5. Dark Baymax
Nope it's 8 Disney bosses in KH3 and the thing is though unlike the Titans the Beagle Boys were together so it makes NO SENSE to clump the remaining Titans all in one:

KH3
1. Rock Titan
2. & 3. Lava Titan and Ice Titan
4. Tornado Titan
5. Marshmallow
6. Kraken
7. Davy Jones
8. Dark Baymax

You can justify all you want and say DDD has more Disney bosses but I'm sorry but KH3 is 2 Disney bosses above DDD's number.
 
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MATGSY

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Nope it's 8 Disney bosses in KH3 and the thing is though unlike the Titans the Beagle Boys were together so it makes NO SENSE to clump the remaining Titans all in one:

KH3
1. Rock Titan
2. & 3. Lava Titan and Ice Titan
4. Tornado Titan
5. Marshmallow
6. Kraken
7. Davy Jones
8. Dark Baymax

You can justify all you want and say DDD has more Disney bosses but I'm sorry but KH3 is 2 Disney bosses above DDD's number.
Nope it's 8 Disney bosses in KH3 and the thing is though unlike the Titans the Beagle Boys were together so it makes NO SENSE to clump the remaining Titans all in one:

KH3
1. Rock Titan
2. & 3. Lava Titan and Ice Titan
4. Tornado Titan
5. Marshmallow
6. Kraken
7. Davy Jones
8. Dark Baymax

You can justify all you want and say DDD has more Disney bosses but I'm sorry but KH3 is 2 Disney bosses above DDD's number.
Beagle Boys were separate from each other in Riku's story. I could count the Riku & Sora encounters as separate as well.
 
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The biggest name you can really say is Davey Jones and he is definitely NOT an iconic villain.
Seriously?!? I can respect your opinion and disappointment but don't diss the Captain of the Flying Dutchman himself. Besides Davy Jones IS considered one of Disney's most Iconic villains (in the live-action side) and honestly everyone including myself is grateful that he's a boss in the game and didn't end up being shafted like they did with CLU and Randall, particularly the former
 
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Beagle Boys were separate from each other in Riku's story. I could count the Riku & Sora encounters as separate as well.
And again KH3 was 2 Disney Bosses above DDD Disney Bosses. In fact KH3's Disney Bosses is almost the exact same amount as in BBS which had 8-9 Disney Bosses (Monstro for BBS Final Mix).
 
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