The plot.

[Sephiroth0812]

Nobodies being able to grow hearts is not a retcon, that it is possible for hearts to be born in existences that should not have one (like Data-Sora in Coded for example) when they have strong connections was already hinted at before, even as far back as in Chain of Memories there were subtle hints to that and they don't all involve Roxas.
As for Axel, emotions can't be "developed" and remembering them allows you to act like you feel them (like most of the other Nobodies do), but not really feel them. For that, a heart is needed and crying tears (which Axel did) is the confirmed proof that someone has a heart.
Not to mention that the notion "Nobodies fake their emotions" isn't really contradicted at all since while they are capable of it not all Nobodies actually did develop an own heart.
Xemnas also pointed out that there were individual differences between them and it seemed at in some of them hearts were about to develop.
When Sora confronts Xigbar about it the only ones developing hearts who are really "confirmed" in-game are Roxas, Axel, Naminé and Xion.

Xemnas' goals have also not been retconned since they all were left shady from the beginning. The other Org members believed that Kingdom Hearts was built to give them hearts, but that was never Xemnas' goal to begin with and obtaining KH to become a higher existence ist the central goal that encompasses all main Xehanort-incarnations. Ansem SoD also wanted the KH from KH 1 to become an all-powerful being.

I wouldn't say "late" or "poorly" since the hints and foreshadowing parts were already there, so this "reveal" wasn't much of a surprise for me but rather a logical conclusion to things I already interpreted and theorized before.
I speculated already in 2010 (and incorporated those thoughts into my FanFic when I planned it out in early 2011), that hearts can be formed, grow and born otherwise as solely from Kingdom Hearts itself.

 

[State]

Nobodies being able to grow hearts is not a retcon, that it is possible for hearts to be born in existences that should not have one (like Data-Sora in Coded for example) when they have strong connections was already hinted at before, even as far back as in Chain of Memories there were subtle hints to that and they don't all involve Roxas.

This is the first time I've heard this and never noticed before, huh. Thanks for clearing.

As for Axel, emotions can't be "developed" and remembering them allows you to act like you feel them (like most of the other Nobodies do), but not really feel them. For that, a heart is needed and crying tears (which Axel did) is the confirmed proof that someone has a heart.

Right.

When Sora confronts Xigbar about it the only ones developing hearts who are really "confirmed" in-game are Roxas, Axel, Naminé and Xion.

He developed or had Ventus'?

After reading your post, looks like I was wrong about a lot of things, huh.

 

[Ruran]

If ya'll wanna get technical, 3D incorporated "revisions", a type of retcon that adds to the preexisting backstory rather than change it for future plot needs.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

This is the first time I've heard this and never noticed before, huh. Thanks for clearing.

No issue, the hints are also somewhat subtle and sometimes vague, but I can dig out some from interviews and games alike if wanted.

He developed or had Ventus'?

After reading your post, looks like I was wrong about a lot of things, huh.

The one doesn't rule out the other, it's even pretty much sure that Roxas had only Ven's heart at first because he IS (was) a Nobody after all. It's a good imagery when he was blank and a Zombie in Days, no heart there, but the reason Roxas developed so insanely fast could very likely be because Ven's heart passively aided in forming his own.
Ven's heart wasn't active due to it still being damaged and if Roxas' newly formed consciousness had used primarily Ven's heart, he would have experienced stuff from Ventus like memories etc.

There is also a big emphasis put on in DDD that if someone feels a heart somewhere, a heart exists. Sora explicitly says when he meets Roxas that he considers them separate and Roxas should be allowed to exist on his own, which provokes one of Roxas' rare smiles.
Ansem the Wise also mentions something similar when he explains things about hearts to Riku in the "longest cutscene ever" Nomura had promised us before DDD was released:

Spoiler Show

[Riku opens his eyes on Destiny Islands, looking out to sea at the sunset. He turns and sees Roxas.]

Riku: Roxas --

Roxas: What are you so afraid of?

Riku: Huh?

[Riku can answer with one of three options.]

Riku:
- That I might be trapped in the darkness.
- Of hurting someone's heart.
- Of losing something important.

[Riku answers, and Roxas fades away. Riku walks along the beach and meets Ventus.]

Riku: Roxas -- or maybe not?

Ventus: What is the most important thing to you?

Riku: Huh?

[Riku can answer with one of three options.]

Riku:
- The hearts of light I'm connected to.
- My precious friends.
- The power to protect.

[Ventus fades away.]

Riku: What's going on?

[Riku looks up, and sitting on the palm tree in the distance, he sees a silhouette.]

Riku: Sora!

[Riku runs over, but when he reaches the palm tree, he finds Xion sitting on it.]

Riku: Who are you?

Xion: Riku, what do you want to do?

Riku: Another question? That's right --

[Riku moves over to lean against the palm tree.]

Riku: I want...

[Riku can answer with one of three options.]

Riku:
- To return to the world and protect everyone.
- To take back what is important to me.
- To heal the sorrows of the past.

[The scene fades to white. Riku sighs, and opens his eyes standing on the shore. He sees a bottle floating towards the beach, and picks it up when it reaches him.]

Riku: This is...?

Ansem the Wise: It's hard to believe, that you would come here.

Riku: DiZ!? No... Ansem the Wise. Why are you here?

Ansem the Wise: Maybe I intended to atone. I know that no matter how much I apologise, I can't be forgiven. I thought if I could at least leave something behind... I turned that research of mine into data, and hid it inside Sora.

[Riku looks at the bottle in his hand.]

Riku: This is... data?

Ansem the Wise: That's right. Maybe it will be a clue for you all, to bring back your lost allies. The heart is something that can be born, and nurtured. To touch the light, to feel nature, to connect to people... the accumulation of these things gives shape to the heart. It's the same even for Nobodies who do not have hearts.

Ansem the Wise: Sora is unique; even though he returned to his own body, he allowed his Nobody to exist as it was. That is the strength of the thoughts of the people connected to his heart, the strength of his heart's connections. I dare say that even if he were to lose that heart, those he is connected to could, with just those vanished hearts and existences, bring it back.

Ansem the Wise: One's treasured things, a silent doll, trees in the forest, flowers that sway in the wind... anything has the potential to carry a heart. You don't need any special ability. That light of the heart that everyone had when they were a child - simple, honest thoughts - that is the strength of a pure heart, in which Sora believes and cannot doubt.

Ansem the Wise: If someone feels a heart there, a heart exists. Even if a heart is lost, maybe it can once again be connected. Up to this point, he has felt, accepted, and saved many hearts. And now the many hearts that sleep within Sora's heart have fallen into darkness, been stolen by darkness, sleep in darkness. The hearts dissolved in Sora -- to save them, you must act as Sora has up until now, move forward as a heart in order to succeed. His thoughts are the only way. Or to be precise, what is within them.

[Riku looks at the bottle again.]

Riku: I understand. I'll look after this. Thank you.

Ansem the Wise: It's nothing. By the way, why are you here?

Riku: Uh... to wake up Sora...

Ansem the Wise: Has he fallen asleep again?

Riku: Yeah... what can you do about guys like him?

Ansem the Wise: Indeed.

[Ansem the Wise and Riku laugh.]

Ansem the Wise: Sora is alright.

Riku: Huh?

Ansem the Wise: He's not here. You should already have saved the Sora who was wrapped in nightmares.

Riku: Oh? That Sora wrapped up in black darkness?

Ansem the Wise: And after that, you should have come here and been asked three questions by those young people.

[Riku flashes back to the questions he was asked by Roxas and Xion.]

Ansem the Wise: That was the last lock of awakening. Sora is now awake. So, return home.

Riku: Is that right. Thank you.

[Riku summons the Kingdom Key; a keyhole appears in the sky and he unlocks it and begins to float towards it.]

Ansem the Wise: That's right - I still haven't asked for your name.

Riku: It's Riku.

[Riku flies off into the light in the sky.]
-----
Translations were done by fellow forum member Krexia.

---

@Ruran:

Huh? So just expanding on previously vague concepts can also be called retcon?
The more you know...

 

[State]

No issue, the hints are also somewhat subtle and sometimes vague, but I can dig out some from interviews and games alike if wanted.

It IS Nomura's title to be subtle and vague, perhaps he buries hints in games to later use them as plot elements?

The one doesn't rule out the other, it's even pretty much sure that Roxas had only Ven's heart at first because he IS (was) a Nobody after all. It's a good imagery when he was blank and a Zombie in Days, no heart there, but the reason Roxas developed so insanely fast could very likely be because Ven's heart passively aided in forming his own.

So in a nutshell;
Ventus' heart helped Roxas accelerate the development of his own heart?

Ven's heart wasn't active due to it still being damaged and if Roxas' newly formed consciousness had used primarily Ven's heart, he would have experienced stuff from Ventus like memories etc.

Good point, and since his heart was relatively new, Ven influenced his appearance.

;~;

That was an emotional reunion between Riku and AtW... I miss the old geezer. :< Makes me want to get KH3D to experience all of this personally. It's funny, though, I wasn't planning on getting the game but now I am. The funny part is how I intentionally spoiled myself because I wasn't getting it, lol. Looks like I need to get spoiled to buy something. xD

/edit

So in a way, hearts are like cells; everything is composed by them?

 

[Ruran]

@Sephy

Basically, any time you "manipulate" previously established plot points, particularly to expand on something, it's a retcon. Since that's what it's essential purpose is; to change given facts in some way to expand the story or "fix" something. Only time something isn't a retcon is if it was planned all along by the writer.

Just thought I'd get this out of the way since there's so many bad connotations and misinterpretation as to what a retcon (and is counterparts) are.

 

[State]

Only time something isn't a retcon is if it was planned all along by the writer.

And we know Nomura's record with KH's story, so take a guess. :> With this in consideration, Xemnas' goals were retconnned. His initial idea of the organization was to manipulate them so he could get Kingodm Hearts and form a world to his ideals and get a heart, although the first being his prime objective.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

It IS Nomura's title to be subtle and vague, perhaps he buries hints in games to later use them as plot elements?

Yeah, that's the main gist of it.
Nomura leaves things vague in order allow people to speculate, but he also uses those vague ends to expand plot elements later on.
One problem I often see with the fandom is however that some seem to be unable to accept that their interpretations were false when a newer title comes out that gives more "solid" substance to things that were more vague before.

Granted though, sometimes Nomura may be too subtle and that several things are only hinted more specifically in interviews does complicate stuff especially since the Ultimanias, which also hold much information regarding such topics, are Japan-only.

From what he said in a recent interview, he plans the continuation of the story in steps. When KH 1 was in development, he looked into Ideas for CoM and KH2. When KH 2 was in development, he planned Birth by Sleep, Days and Coded and so on.

So in a nutshell;
Ventus' heart helped Roxas accelerate the development of his own heart?

That's how I would interpret the whole issue, yep. Ansem the Wise said that connections to others is one of the things that gives shape to a heart, and Roxas was closely connected with Sora and Ven.
This all also gives the notion that Roxas is something new, a hybrid of Sora and Ven, and his co-existence with Sora a more significant meaning.

Good point, and since his heart was relatively new, Ven influenced his appearance.

Well, the appearance-thingy may stem more from Ven's heart being the only one left inside the body, which shaped it to look like Ven, as Roxas looked like Ven right when he was born and didn't have a heart of his own yet.
But I get the main gist of what you mean, Ven's heart helping shape Roxas' is what most likely set his appearance in stone, just like Roxas' connection with Sora was the one that affected his battle stance more.
After all, Roxas' birth was triggered by and from Sora's heart, that's why he is Sora's Nobody. Ven's heart was just an (albeit significant) "extra" so to say.

;~;

That was an emotional reunion between Riku and AtW... I miss the old geezer. :< Makes me want to get KH3D to experience all of this personally. It's funny, though, I wasn't planning on getting the game but now I am. The funny part is how I intentionally spoiled myself because I wasn't getting it, lol. Looks like I need to get spoiled to buy something. xD

/edit

So in a way, hearts are like cells; everything is composed by them?

It's also one of my favorite scenes in DDD, especially because all the explanations regarding hearts and Riku finally confident enough to give Ansem his real name.
Ansem the Wise truly wanting to atone for all the crap he did in Days and KH2 is also heartwarming and makes me appreciate him more.
The scene when Riku meets Ventus has also a sort of funny vibe since just as many fans, Riku initially confuses him for Roxas.

Yes and no, not everything is composed by hearts, but the influences of the outside things Ansem mentions (like touching the light, connecting to people) shape a heart and give it form.
In-game, Xemnas compares hearts to a sort of flower buds that can sprout and be nutured, although the cell-comparison probably isn't that wrong either since hearts can split and grow into two or more hearts, just like with a cell division. (As seen with Xehanort splitting his heart and also with Vanitas and Ven, although the latter one was done in a too brutal way and therefore caused Ven's heart to be heavily damaged).

@Sephy

Basically, any time you "manipulate" previously established plot points, particularly to expand on something, it's a retcon. Since that's what it's essential purpose is; to change given facts in some way to expand the story or "fix" something. Only time something isn't a retcon is if it was planned all along by the writer.

Just thought I'd get this out of the way since there's so many bad connotations and misinterpretation as to what a retcon (and is counterparts) are.

I understand, although I don't really see what established "facts" are really changed in DDD, the "Nobodies don't have hearts"-fact is still correct, and while it was implied in KH2 that this is a permanent state it was never confirmed, and already contradicted by hints throughout Days and Coded.

That it has so many bad connotations may possibly stem from the issue that several "fans" use it more than often to go into hate rants about stuff that doesn't fit their previously established interpretation.
In a series that isn't finished one has to expect that some things are changed as the plot moves on.

 

[Ruran]

I understand, although I don't really see what established "facts" are really changed in DDD, the "Nobodies don't have hearts"-fact is still correct, and while it was implied in KH2 that this is a permanent state it was never confirmed, and already contradicted by hints throughout Days and Coded.

That it has so many bad connotations may possibly stem from the issue that several "fans" use it more than often to go into hate rants about stuff that doesn't fit their previously established interpretation.
In a series that isn't finished one has to expect that some things are changed as the plot moves on.

Hence, I suggested that 3D seems more prone to "revisions" than out right "retcons". Adding on to previously established facts rather than changing them to serve future plot points.

The hate for retcons doesn't so much come from fans not "getting what they want" than retcons showing a lack of planning from the writer(s). When a retcon happens it's because a writer established something as solid fact, including from their perspective, but for one reason or another the writer(s) need to go back on an idea and re-image, add on to it, or even replace it all together. Typically this is done to fulfill a newly established plot point or expand the story and if the writer(s) have to keep going back to change their planes it makes the writer(s) come across as incompetent in the planning department. That though is only if they're an incompetent writer(s) all together, other wise retcons can appear as if they were All According to Plan.

If it isn't handled well then weeeelll...it comes across as an Ass Pull. In my experience with fans, it's not so much that they're dissapointed that the story didn't go the way they wanted it to (though there's the odd exception) than they feel as something could have been done better and when there's something the fans interpret as disappointing, in the case of KH, the blame is on retconning, via, bad planning because KH does tend to go back and "reframe" a lot of its concepts.

 

[State]

Is there a possibility of retcons being written on purpose?

 

[Ruran]

Is there a possibility of retcons being written on purpose?

You mean a writer implementing something with the purpose of retconing it later? Technically yes. You can write in an idea that's meant to be expanded on later but the thing about a retcon is that it's something that the writer didn't plan ahead on. If the writer writes something that's fully planned out than it's not a retcon, it's either "All According to Plan" (see the link in my previous post) or a Plot Twist. If the writer writes something without the intent of it being something to be expanded on in the future, or at the least, writes it with the possibility that it can expand but has no real planes on how or why than it still qualifies as a retcon.