The hate for nomura is getting old

[LightUpTheSky452]

This isn't as good an argument as you think. Nomura wasn't the only writer for KH1 or even the main one, he was working with Jun Akiyama, Daisuke Watanabe, and Kazushige Nojima. Comparing the earlier entries in the series to the later ones, it's clear that their writing deserves a lot of credit for bringing the ideas to life and making the story so strong.

This is where the real parallels between Nomura and George Lucas come in. When George Lucas made the original trilogy and his other classics he was just a director and was open to feedback from others to polish his movies. By the time the prequels came out he was a legendary director that nobody felt they could speak up to, even when he specifically asked for contributions from others. As a result the prequels are much less polished despite having a solid vision at their core. When Nomura was directing KH1 he was working with others, as the series has gone on they've left and now there's nobody pointing out when something isn't working.

But despite all this I do agree with you on how annoying it is to see Nomura used as a scapegoat. People seem to blame him for everything they don't like about Square Enix even when it has nothing to do with him.

That's very true. And I do give credit to all of those talents. And often wonder if KH has lost some of its magic because some of them have left.

However, I still think Nomura has talent. At this point, it comes down to personal opinion. But he wrote the script for Days, didn't he? Didn't he write it in a month, only eating canned foods and then said he would never do that again? And I quite liked the script of Days. And, yes, I know. The English localization helped to liven it up, and that wasn't Nomura, either. But I just felt he really captured what it was to be a Nobody, that I hadn't really understood before that game.

And then I remember him saying in some interview since then, that he's actually been writing the rest of the KH games since then, actually. Though maybe the first script, or more of a first draft. And, even with their flaws, I've liked them, so...

I also liked FFVII Remake... that Nomura, Toriyama, and Nojima all seem to think they wrote. So in my eyes, Nomura does have his talents. But again, I know it's a personal thing.

 

[Gothtaku666]

The shit that gets said about Nomura is child’s play compared to the work of the Fandom Menace.

I'm not so sure about the fandoms menace and the Prequels these days I have plenty of friends who are apart of it who really really love the Prequels I usually hear them talking about... the Sequel trilogy and how it goes against both Prequels and og trilogy plus they'll praise mando both clone wars shows rebels and bad batch everything else that doesn't have lucus Favrue or filonis name on it they don't like om pretty much the same well I actually liked force awakens and rogue one but the others personally no thank you I'm glad if you like them though

That's very true. And I do give credit to all of those talents. And often wonder if KH has lost some of its magic because some of them have left.

However, I still think Nomura has talent. At this point, it comes down to personal opinion. But he wrote the script for Days, didn't he? Didn't he write it in a month, only eating canned foods and then said he would never do that again? And I quite liked the script of Days. And, yes, I know. The English localization helped to liven it up, and that wasn't Nomura, either. But I just felt he really captured what it was to be a Nobody, that I hadn't really understood before that game.

And then I remember him saying in some interview since then, that he's actually been writing the rest of the KH games since then, actually. Though maybe the first script, or more of a first draft. And, even with their flaws, I've liked them, so...

I also liked FFVII Remake... that Nomura, Toriyama, and Nojima all seem to think they wrote. So in my eyes, Nomura does have his talents. But again, I know it's a personal thing.

If anything it's because of how many games they have them work on where having them back will make KH better than ever they also like NOMURA have 50 games to work on like every day or they left square for one reason or another. I'm not sure if they have but these projects take Time

If you like him or dislike him, as long as the content of the conversation doesn't extend to death threats or personal attacks, either perspective is fine. Criticism conducted in a way that develops and petitions for healthy conversation isn't looked at to be dismissed as simple and meritless.

My take away from this kind of conversations is for all his critics to realize that this man is/has been in charge of multiple different projects and much of his attention gets divided up working on multiple projects at once. With all due respect for most of you here that have progressed further into adulthood yourselves, you've likely encountered much of your own attention getting pulled in several directions a lot more frequently, imagine that times fifteen for Nomura.

No seriously, just imagine.

Yes precisely after KINGDOM HEARTS II When Versus XIII started it has come to my attention that he had worked on over 10 games at a time especially when you realize that these were for Different

If you like him or dislike him, as long as the content of the conversation doesn't extend to death threats or personal attacks, either perspective is fine. Criticism conducted in a way that develops and petitions for healthy conversation isn't looked at to be dismissed as simple and meritless.

My take away from this kind of conversations is for all his critics to realize that this man is/has been in charge of multiple different projects and much of his attention gets divided up working on multiple projects at once. With all due respect for most of you here that have progressed further into adulthood yourselves, you've likely encountered much of your own attention getting pulled in several directions a lot more frequently, imagine that times fifteen for Nomura.

No seriously, just imagine.

Precisely I would also like to point out that he during the time of Final Fantasy Versus XIII the project he and the Kingdom Hearts team started after Kingdom Hearts 2 worked on at least 10 games at a time if I remember correctly please correct me if I am in correct on that he ended up working on a lot of games at a time it's even been more stressful when you realize that these were all four different systems from the Nintendo DS and the PlayStation Portable PlayStation 3 and more meaning he had to account for the difference Hardware's and all that let alone he has to work from multiple angles on these games thus causing a lot have stress especially in regards to Final Fantasy XIII and later Final Fantasy 14 when they had to rebuild it this caused holds in production especially on vs 13 which I personally suppose is why verum Rex really exist I think it really isn't fair when you do put that into Prospect and as you said his attention is divided I think it isn't really healthy when you put into context just how many projects He and other people at square and other gaming companies have had to work on

I'm sure all of the people who "legitimately" hate Nomura would kill for a moment to get his autograph and a picture.
For all my critques of KH's writing, wishing for better, and jokingly being like "Nomuraaaa!!!", there's no way I hate the dude. I don't know him and a couple of plot holes isn't worth hating someone for? I feel like that's so childish.

The problem is Kingdom Hearts is something you really have to put your attention chin into and really engaged with there's a lot of stuff that I don't even notice Upon A fifth play through of insert Kingdom Hearts or even Final Fantasy game here the thing is I feel nomura is a little to settle with his writing and the fact that he also has to work on 50 projects at a time so it feels rather rushed and if you ever search his name up on YouTube you get nothing but people really shiting on him or something along those lines calling him Japan's biggest hat in Japanese gaming the only game they really tend to like is either Kingdom Hearts II Final Fantasy 7 or maybe something like Parasite Eve anything other than something like those they love to s*** on him I've even seen rather mind-numbing takes on videos that are related to things like Kingdom Hearts are Final Fantasy like on a review I was watching for the world ends with you or someone said indeed it's a fun game but like all of Nemours projects it lacks death which simply isn't true that can be said for some of his games but not all of them it really does come off lower like people want someone to be angry at or they're searching for something to complain about someone they want as a punching bag despite only ever doing his job or trying to tell a story they forget that these things take time is a lot of lot of things that would have been in the game originally or altered I'm at these projects have to be heavily edited it before release especially when you're Laura and as said you have to work on 50-plus projects at a time from multiple angles

Believe me when I say that if someone else did exactly what Nomura does but in a more "realistic" setting or "without Didney" it'd be loved to hell and back

But if Nomura did his usual thing with those two things as well, it wouldn't be loved because it's Nomura. The guy people still think is obsessed with belts despite all of his recent character designs not having many belts, if any at all.

Nomura has problems, yes, but he's also a victim of the internet osmosis or whatever around him that led him to apparently being the main guy to blame for all of Square's fuck ups.

Yeah this seems to be the thing people like to do where the main person they point fingers to I've seen things from I wish they had sakagucchi back to fire namora on e3b threads will the streams for E3 it seems like people went and took a joke and then the fake hate became for real hate when in truth he is a flawed writer but he is a good writer at heart and has made really well done stories even if he had help with them the sad truth of the matter is is that they don't really do a lot of research when in regards to nemora or Square Enix it's rather unfortunate because they really do come off a lot like they don't know what they're talking about the problem is a lot of people don't for whatever reason at least from what I've seen find these videos and correct them and when they do his haters or people who like to troll on him like to just ignore it because it defeats The Narrative of NOMURA bad for whatever reason

Fandom Menace?
Is that the moniker they got nowadays?
I remember back in the days when I still gave a modicum of shit about the SW fandom they were more often called prequel haters, trolls or simply OT-purists.

I've never hated the prequels despite their dialogue and pacing not exactly being top tier and personally thinking Jar Jar as a character being a waste of screentime, yet I would never dream of personally attacking any of the actors.
The general setting and premise of the prequels is actually pretty good and solid, not to mention imo that the prequels did a lot more and better world-building for the SW galaxy than even the OT and their designs, locations and aesthetics are also more diverse and visually appealing.

I'm also someone who vastly prefers (parts) of the old Legends EU of Star Wars to the new Disney-owned stuff especially when it comes to post-Episode VI material and consider the sequel trilogy even worse than the prequels (as they're essentially just a OT-rehash with new faces and escalating effects and extremes), yet here too I would never personally attack the actors who worked on it.

---
Nomura has indeed been visualized as some sort of scapegoat by some severely disgruntled parts of both the FF and KH fandom yet several of the leveled accusations are either plain wrong or blown out of proportion.

Like already said though, criticizing some of the work doesn't equal automatically attacking or putting down the person.
It has been shown multiple times by now that Nomura simply either isn't that skilled or interested enough to write a long-running, coherent story that pays attention to the established lore of its own universe.
That's why he should rely on two or three co-writers and especially have some editors who help

The first playthrough with the not paying attention to the Lauren stuff I've seen that however upon replays and even other people pointing it out that also happens to not be is true especially with bringing things like the arcs from Kingdom Hearts 1 back the difference is as I've stated many times in this thread he really is the divided amount of time he only has x amount of time to actually write certain games this is why continuity is so messy despite Kingdom Hearts really being written like something that's supposed to have an unclear continuity I mean from the opening minutes wear swords drowning it should have been obvious that it was going to be a very trippy series it is Disney in Final Fantasy meeting after all so it should be somewhat expected however yeah k h is blown out of proportion it's also so far really been only designed to something you have to play one game at for another 2 hours to really get a full appreciation for unfortunately because namora has to work on so many games at once if he had more time and as you suggested more co-writers he could easily make better products but Square likes to put his name on everything forcing him out on a lot of projects of which which I keep hearing some he doesn't even want any attachment to so it's come to my attention that he really only wants to focus on one or two series at once or one or two games at once but instead he has to focus on tap in many ways I guess this is like because he wrote Final Fantasy 7 and several of the other most popular Final Fantasy games and many other popular RPGs including some of the first Kingdom Hearts game even with help he still is usually the one that gives that attention so Square wants to plaster his name everywhere but they don't give him the time he had or help he had to make those games as great as they were if he had simply more time to work on projects aside from nomura does its character designs for this game produces it or namora is one of the background writers for the escape and produces it work no more is the director of this game and lures the co-director of this game she should really have more time and more help with these projects because then they'd all be 10 out of 10 masterpieces and many of verses for teens Dev team of come out and said that it wasn't those fault that it was an amazing game in fact it's just square that screwed it up and a lot of people for whatever reason don't want to put the blame on Square Order other more appropriate people when in truth Nomura from what I've seen is rarely ever the reason something is bad and it's it's tired and I want to put that to rest as much as possible also forgive me I'm using text-to-speech

Hey guys so this is going to be a practice thread because I'm trying to make some articles related to Square Enix and Kingdom Hearts so please bear with me on this and any help you can give me would be very much appreciated I'm working on a few articles that I'd like to write revolving around Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy specifically especially their relation but this one is for the Nomura and the fact that I think much like the creator of bleach he does not deserve the hate he gets she's in my opinion has joined the ranks of George Lucas and Zack Snyder in being overly hated and for no real reason especially when he's been doing this for over 30 years and trying to stick by fans and make his stories as well as he could. So beware the arguments I'm going to put here or not going to be perfect this is just me trying to get a lot of my points out as well as I can so I can find a way to structure them in a way that I can eventually figure out a way to put into some form of an article or YouTube video any help people can help me with or things you find about nomura or is writing and work that are not deserving of the hate you gets please give those suggestions to me as well.


Also just an FYI there will be spelling errors and there won't be a lot of periods and so on so forth

So it's come to my attention that many people like to hate on tetsuya nomura it's not new to me I've known about this for years especially since high school and the vast majority of times I see people's arguments against nomura or why they think Kingdom Hearts is poorly written or why they hate him for insert reason here usually aren't very sound arguments and it's unfortunate that the media has spun a narrative around the man and I think it is time that we need to put a stop to it from how how in my opinion that Square Enix screwed him over with verses 13 to people making the smallest complaints about things that in grand scheme of things don't really matter or Worse first from something made almost 20 to 25 years ago it's it's a little ridiculous it goes beyond just nitpicking in my opinion now I'm completely okay with someone only being in Kingdom Hearts for the game play and not the story or not particularly finding it well-written but I'm one of the people who finds King Mark's very well written as well as his final fantasy work end well Kingdom Hearts in Final Fantasy go hand-in-hand I'd argue almost even more then it does with Disney. Simply searching his name in the YouTube or on Google and you can find almost nothing at least from the Western half of the Square Enix fan base complaining about him doing this or that or complaining about something he wasn't even involved with or barely had any involvement with and I'm just getting sick and tired of it and I know many fans of Final Fantasy Kingdom Hearts the world ends with you are tired of it too and especially the arguments many people have made against him a lot of them are either poorly researched or get a lot of information wrong about the projects especially Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Especially with Kingdom Hearts as Kingdom Hearts is a series that you really have to replay in pay attention to multiple times to really get it in the morning is like David Lynch in that way he has so much of a story to tell that you don't really notice it and that's because of his Final Fantasy Origins as that's where he kind of comes from but I find a lot of people mostly Western fanbase members really don't appreciate him from what I've seen from Japanese rent fans and friends who live in Japan who were fans of square he's pretty much praised there so it's more the western side of the fan base. It is truthfully not fair considering she is a good writer he's not the greatest writer of all time he's no Shakespeare actually I'd say he's a little better than Shakespeare I'll actually aren't you that Shakespeare was kind of lazy. From arguments ranging from they just don't like his zippers and they don't like how this was or that was that doesn't make it bad and in many cases I found him being called a hack for changing up 7 remake and people sing he he and square promise to faithful remake is not true as is the truth about Kingdom Hearts 3 it was not in development from 2006 to 2019 they really only started development on it in 2013 especially when you realize nomura was simply too busy to have been working on Kingdom Hearts 3 he had every Final Fantasy game that isn't related to Final Fantasy XIV on his list he had vs 13 which would turn into Final Fantasy 15 he would end up being taken off of his own project which was actually mostly done contrary to popular belief in fact Square Enix themselves kept running into engine problems were other problems with other games which would cause namora and other people at Square to start working on those projects does putting him in under unfair conditions especially regarding Japan's crunch-time conditions in regards to video games manga end animation he works on a vast majority of what Square Enix has to offer in Japan that the most from Final Fantasy most specifically to Kingdom Hearts at self the world ends with you Gunslinger Stratos and so many other games it really only becomes unfair because all he does is try to please at least from what I can tell or at least tell his story the way he wants it to be told but I have to question that because he's got to work on everything so he doesn't really get the time to really make the games as good as they could be so when people complain about Kingdom Hearts not being the most amazing thing ever written for insert game here compared to another one it's because the man is busy he's got so many other projects he's got to work on and I've seen many things from namora didn't work on Final Fantasy 7 which anyone who can use Google or play the original Final Fantasy 7 nose is b******* he wrote the story for it he did the character designs and many even saying he said the Kingdom Hearts 3 was going to be the end which is also not true a lot of misinformation it would seem is a frequent in regards to nomura from it was his fault for vs13 being cancelled which as I would recently get into looking into stuff isn't true in fact as it would turn out it's more or less Square Enix has both at the game never got released when apparently it was mostly done and developers behind versus have come out in defense of him and I think that is something that the Western fan base especially fans have no more need to start doing more because I find it unacceptable how he is is treated from fans of Final Fantasy in Kingdom Hearts and anything he works on being mistreated harassed and even bullied just for liking something he was involved with at one point I run into comments on just something he's not even involved with saying oh yeah I hope no more it doesn't ruin Dragon Quest or I hope he doesn't ruin this when I'm like how could he she does most of the work from what I can see or at least seems to be the reason Square Enix is still going at least the main reason she truly does not deserve the hate he is getting especially in the recent years many people's arguments on why this is why he ruined this or he promised that are poorly researched and are misinformed information needs to be more solid with nomura namora is a eccentric guy that is for sure but he is not a terrible writer he is not a person who ruined someone's childhood just by altering a game he wrote when he didn't actually write the Remake she came up with a Concepts in fact seven remake has a lot of lot of the stuff that the original game cut out and is really just a different story they never promised a one-to-one remake two people complaining about Kingdom Hearts 3 not being the last entry in the series when they said there would be more after Kingdom Hearts 3 I've even seen people saying you can't say that nomura plan this because he didn't write it and that's not true planning and writing the story or two different things because one is mapping the stories Direction out versus when you finally get to the stages of actually writing I see so much hatred for just one guy for just trying to make a good story or make something he wants people to like or something he invested a lot of his own passion to it's just not fair I have more problems with square are as a whole aside from him I'll try to update this later this is just a lot of my thoughts and points if you see this please contribute reasons why you don't think nimora deserves the hate eight he's been getting especially in the recent years it can be from riding to character designs to just the smallest things he you've seen him get hate for because it's starting to get ridiculous to the point where I may as well start a hashtag that says #I stand with TETSUYA NOMURA it's just something that isn't fair I'm tired of the false narrative that touched me in the Mora is a terrible person for this and that or he's a terrible writer he makes convoluted this and that I'm tired of it end it's going to be a life goal of mine at this point to the bunk is many arguments about why he's terrible as possible and any fans of Nemours work here who can help me with that it'll be appreciated because it's time that he starts getting the respect in the west he really does deserve because he is probably the most over hated writer and director and artist I have seen of this generation he's not I'm tired of people acting like he did to everyone what Rian Johnson did the Star Wars or something and I understand if you like The Last Jedi and all that but it's unfair to nomura and I think it needs to be put to an end I think the community as a whole needs to start doing videos and articles as much as possible as to why he shouldn't be getting the hate he's getting this way we can Stamp Out The Narrative that key is this terrible writer or this terrible character designer into this terrible this and it needs to be put to an end and if the community can help put an end to this bulshit it'll be appreciated and I feel like it just needs to be put to an end I understand if someone doesn't like his work that's completely fine but spreading false information or he's a terrible writer for this and that and acting like it is fact as so many of his haters do is and it needs to be put to a stop especially when you searched his name into YouTube and all you find is people ranting about the man and why they hate him for this and that work why he's the biggest hack in Japanese gaming it's stupid and I'm just tired of it anyone who can help out or send me some stuff this way I can create a article or YouTube video for why he's not deserving of this Aid please and thank you sent it to me and I'm sorry for not using commas and periods in sentences or proper grammar what not if it's hard for you to get through I'm using text-to-speech

Hey guys thank you so much for the the attention that this threat is gone it's been a great help I haven't been checking in as often but it's really helping me with what I'm working on if you could go an extra step if you see this particular comment please reply to it with the dumbest criticisms you've seen of the series especially the ones that don't make any sense and stuff related to tatsuya namora that literally makes no sense or that has been proven false at the least a few times and at the most far too many times for you personally to count an example would be the whole namora ruined versus XIII situation when many of the developers behind that game eventually came out and said that it wasn't his fault and that he himself fixed a lot of the problems one of which within 5 minutes and if you're wondering about that rather popular Square Enix YouTuber named the night sky Prince even did a video on that especially with the Sea of misinformation about anything related to this particular director please stop this stupid. Native that says he is a dead a terrible writer director producer and anything in between so that his name isn't the punching bag when people should be pointing their attention at Square a different director producer in some cases or even Disney he doesn't need to take responsibility when he does and which he has but in many other cases I've really found it to be that it isn't his fault a lot of the times for these and we need to stop this stupidity behind him at least partially because after the strangers Paradise revealed it seems the gears started going again people to start getting on those box and gloves to use him as a punching bag again

 

[Sorarocks93]

Everytime someone complains about Nomura I just like to mention that he released 4 games in 4 years. Re:CoM, Days, BBS and coded. Between 2007 and 2010. He is by no means a bad director. Infact, they put him on so many projects because he is good at his work. Versus XIII wasn't his fault either. The fault lies in the engine, and Square's bad management.

Square put him on the FFVII Remake because they wanted the game to be a success. And it was.

 

[Absent]

I'm not so sure about the fandoms menace and the Prequels these days I have plenty of friends who are apart of it who really really love the Prequels I usually hear them talking about... the Sequel trilogy and how it goes against both Prequels and og trilogy plus they'll praise mando both clone wars shows rebels and bad batch everything else that doesn't have lucus Favrue or filonis name on it they don't like om pretty much the same well I actually liked force awakens and rogue one but the others personally no thank you I'm glad if you like them though.

Trigger Warning

I'm talking about the Fandom Menace back between 1999 and pre Disney purchase. The community made documentaries SHAMING Lucas and made disgusting remarks about how he ruined(they used the R word) their childhoods. Nowhere in history have we seen a community so vitriolic and downright dangerous as the SW community. By the way, this all on the internet and YouTube, this is well documented, and the fact that so many people have forgotten breaks my heart.

By the time that fans turned on the sequels, everyone that grew up on the prequels became the majority and sang George's praises. The man who soiled their passion now suddenly became the misunderstood genius.

We can talk all day about what we like or don't like, but my point was to show that the KH fandom is stupidly tame(and inconsequential) compared to the cesspool that was the Fandom Menace towards their creator.

EDIT: Just to remind anyone that is confused, the OP was the first person who brought up SW/Lucas.

 

[Squood!]

Everytime someone complains about Nomura I just like to mention that he released 4 games in 4 years. Re:CoM, Days, BBS and coded. Between 2007 and 2010. He is by no means a bad director. Infact, they put him on so many projects because he is good at his work. Versus XIII wasn't his fault either. The fault lies in the engine, and Square's bad management.

Square put him on the FFVII Remake because they wanted the game to be a success. And it was.

He has one bad apple in the basket and people just act like the basket is falling apart and the apples are rotten.

 

[Sorarocks93]

He has one bad apple in the basket and people just act like the basket is falling apart and the apples are rotten.

People love latching onto things and exaggerating them.

 

[Gothtaku666]

Trigger Warning

I'm talking about the Fandom Menace back between 1999 and pre Disney purchase. The community made documentaries SHAMING Lucas and made disgusting remarks about how he ruined(they used the R word) their childhoods. Nowhere in history have we seen a community so vitriolic and downright dangerous as the SW community. By the way, this all on the internet and YouTube, this is well documented, and the fact that so many people have forgotten breaks my heart.

By the time that fans turned on the sequels, everyone that grew up on the prequels became the majority and sang George's praises. The man who soiled their passion now suddenly became the misunderstood genius.

We can talk all day about what we like or don't like, but my point was to show that the KH fandom is stupidly tame(and inconsequential) compared to the cesspool that was the Fandom Menace towards their creator.

EDIT: Just to remind anyone that is confused, the OP was the first person who brought up SW/Lucas.

Ok that cleared stuff up