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The (general) plot for KH2 possibly wasn't planned out before KH1 was finished?



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MPC1301

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Now, by just reading the title of the thread, you may of already thought that this was just some crackpot theory, but please, hear me out. =]

First off, I would like to state that I am in no way trying to diss the games, or the wonderful creators of them; I just have a theory about the way that they went about creating the games.

So, in KH1, we have a main bad guy, Ansem, and all that we thought that he was was simply that; the bad guy who had created the copies of the Heartless, and had therefore gained monumental power over all worlds and the people who inhabited them (ie. his possesion of Riku, (thus creating Rikunort) and the control over all Heartless, namley, Maleficent, who acted as his puppet. Anyways, now back on topic :p).

At that point, we thought that only the Heartless exsisted, and that Ansem was the only big baddie out there controlling them; obviously, for that was all of the information that we were given about the storyline at the time.

However, when KH2 came along (and yeah, debatably CoM), we were introduced to a new enemy, and the big baddie controlling THEM: respectivley, the Nobodies, and Organization XIII. This was totally a major twist for us fans, yet, it still made sense, right? I mean, was it just luck? Or rather, good planning?

Think about it. It just HAPPENS that Ansem in KH1 was actually an imposter, AND a Heartless himself. Also, it just HAPPENS that when a strong heart creates a heartless, it also creates a nobody. Coincidence? Pure luck? Or were they just waiting to see the sucess of the first game to see if they were going to, A: even create a second game, and B: see how they were going to create an intriguing storyline off of the first one, by leaving the storyline in the first open-ended enough for a totally different storyline to be created in the sequal.

Finally, just to add some more to the debate, do you think that KH2 was left open-ended enough for such great twists as those from CoM and KH2 to re-occur, what with the trio being back on their home island, and the "mysterious letter from the King" arriving at the end of the game (which, in drawing a parralell to the end of of first game, may or may not even be MENTIONED (I'm looking at you, KH2; you know that we didn't miss that plothole at the begining of CoM/KH2!!! haha) in the next actual sequal to KH2?

*side note* Before we start this debate, YES I have taken into account the secret video that was at the end of KH1 (the one at the end of KH1:final Mix could've been created after the sucess of the first game was seen, as the first Final Mix obviously came after the original), but that, still, could've been interpreted in many ways (ie. the "BHK" could've simply of been anyone in the world that the writers could've wanted him to be; also, those quotes that flahed by quickly could've easily been left out, and no one would've noticed them).

Also, I know that the "general" plot for CoM/KH2 was to, "Find the King and Riku," yet the new enimies in CoM/KH2, as stated before, were entirely new, and thus, still could've been unplanned at the point from when they finished the original KH.
 

Ren

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I'm sure that Nomura had the basic idea of how CoM and KH2 would work out. I do believe he tends to make plotholes and has to BS his way out of them, but I highly doubt he starts from scratch.
He probably has different concepts that he tweaks, but the general direction of where things go stay the same. I personally think that the existence of nobodies was planned from the start.

KH1 was probably testing the waters and allowing for it to end in case it turned out badly. Then things could further be explained if people liked the game enough, which was the case. :) I didn't find anything remarkably wtf-worthy, because Nomura sets the rules of things quite convincingly.
 

MPC1301

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Im not sure where your getting at =/

Umm, well, haha, after that big long rant, my real question is just this: Do you think that the plot for CoM/KH2 wasn't exactly as planned for as it may of appeared, and that Noruma had just used his own plot holes/open opprotunities to create a new storyline/enemy force? And also, if you guys thought that this was also the case for any future KH games to come.

I'm sure that Nomura had the basic idea of how CoM and KH2 would work out. I do believe he tends to make plotholes and has to BS his way out of them, but I highly doubt he starts from scratch.
He probably has different concepts that he tweaks, but the general direction of where things go stay the same. I personally think that the existence of nobodies was planned from the start.

KH1 was probably testing the waters and allowing for it to end in case it turned out badly. Then things could further be explained if people liked the game enough, which was the case. :) I didn't find anything remarkably wtf-worthy, because Nomura sets the rules of things quite convincingly.

Haha, well the BSing part I would believe, but it's not like I'm criticizing him for it; it was all simply a precaution, and, IMO, rather intelligent to build off of what he had already made so seamlisley:thumbup:

Also, that's interesting that you think that he had the concept of nobodies from the start; if so, then why was there no mention of them (you know, like even the tiniest of hints)? Was this maybe to try and end the game with more closure to the main antagonists' fate, so that the fans would be prepared for something fresh in the next game to come, if, in fact, it was to ever come?

And for your last point, I agree =]
 

Ren

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Also, that's interesting that you think that he had the concept of nobodies from the start; if so, then why was there no mention of them (you know, like even the tiniest of hints)? Was this maybe to try and end the game with more closure to the main antagonists' fate, so that the fans would be prepared for something fresh in the next game to come, if, in fact, it was to ever come?

Ansem Report 13 kind of hinted at it...although I don't it counts, because it was the FM XD

Well, if it were me, I wouldn't want to drop hints and then leaving the small percentage of people who liked KH1 begging for answers.
Nobodies may even have been a concept that Nomura wasn't completely finished with. I'm sure that he knew they would exist, though. It seems like something too big to BS, imo.
 

MPC1301

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Ansem Report 13 kind of hinted at it...although I don't it counts, because it was the FM XD

Well, if it were me, I wouldn't want to drop hints and then leaving the small percentage of people who liked KH1 begging for answers.
Nobodies may even have been a concept that Nomura wasn't completely finished with. I'm sure that he knew they would exist, though. It seems like something too big to BS, imo.

Ansem Report #13 did? Hmm... would you mind telling me what that hint was? (even though it does kinda contradict one of my points about final mix, haha, I'm just interested)

Also, now that I'm thinking of it, there must be some article in which someone had asked Noruma these exact questions about his planning; does anyone know of any that exsist? If not, he should deffinitley be asked in a future interview!
 

Ren

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Ansem Report #13 did? Hmm... would you mind telling me what that hint was? (even though it does kinda contradict one of my points about final mix, haha, I'm just interested)

Also, now that I'm thinking of it, there must be some article in which someone had asked Noruma these exact questions about his planning; does anyone know of any that exsist? If not, he should deffinitley be asked in a future interview!

Ansem Report 13 said:
When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."

I get the feeling that Nomura would dodge the question XD
If people thought that he had no idea that nobodies existed, then they'd think that everything after KH1 was the result of massive, cleverly planned BSing. And then continue on to bash the idea of unbirths.
 
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Audo

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Nomura wasn't sure if there would be a sequel at all. So no, the plot for KH2 was most likely not planned out at all. He of course had some ideas (ASAS) but nothing in finer details.
 
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Azrael

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Plus the time restraints took out a lot of things that could have implemented in KH2. Like the Organization Rematch fights we were supposed to get in the Coliseum
 

#1 Xemnas

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Plus the time restraints took out a lot of things that could have implemented in KH2. Like the Organization Rematch fights we were supposed to get in the Coliseum

WHAT?! THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE COLISEUM?! when did they announce that? i must've missed the interview or whatever it was. im sorry thatss just a bit surprising
 
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Azrael

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WHAT?! THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE COLISEUM?! when did they announce that? i must've missed the interview or whatever it was. im sorry thatss just a bit surprising

You wanna what else, Hollow Bastion in KH1 was supposed to be used in Kh2 as well as the basement
 

#1 Xemnas

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WWWWWHHHAAAATTT?! well i could have guessed about the castle cause of the original trailer and screenshots. i bought a T&T and saw screenshots i was like "yes!" but the original not being there sucked. so what exactly stopped them?
 
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Azrael

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WWWWWHHHAAAATTT?! well i could have guessed about the castle cause of the original trailer and screenshots. i bought a T&T and saw screenshots i was like "yes!" but the original not being there sucked. so what exactly stopped them?

Time restraints, trust me. KH2 was supposed to be killar, it's just that took a lot of time =P
 
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Azrael

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so if we weren't so bent on getting it over here and let them take their time, it would have been later when it was released but was still more awesome than the one we have now.

Everything in KH2 Final Mix save for a few things were supposed to be in the original KH2.
 

#1 Xemnas

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it is true that KH2FM was better, i would have liked to go to the original castle, assault the organization, and see donald freeze himself, like in the original trailer. it would have been kick @$$
 
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