(SPOILERS) Union X: The World's End

[Hirokey123]

Okay I think I understand stuff about Ava and Luxu better.

Spoiler Show

Luxu told Ava all of this, the whole plan, and it devastated her. Ava realized her true role then and there wasn't to just keep light alive it was to keep her friends, the Foretellers, alive and that's why Ava showed up at the keyblade war. She wasn't there to fight, to win, or lose she was there to save who she could. Ava found the Foretellers, she spoke to them about the truth, and about the lifeboats. The foretellers returned to Daybreak Town as the world was being swallowed and took the lifeboats to escape destruction and travel time just like the MoM did. That's why all the lost masters vanished, they literally traveled time, and they were not set to reappear until they arrived at their way point. That point being beyond the end of the book and more importantly at a waypoint that existed beyond it, which was Luxu once he regained No Name. This is why once Xigbar picked it up all the Foretellers popped into existence, except Ava. Why? Because Ava has her own plans, her own mission, and she set herself up to appear at a different waypoint which Xigbar expected she would.

Mind you like 90% of this was seen by the MoM's eye so you know he deliberately set her up to be crushed and respond in turn by saving them. But I think that's why Ava is missing now, she knew if she showed up when the MoM wanted them to she just be playing into his hands. The only way to avoid being the MoM's puppet is to stay completely out of sight that key. So she played the role he wanted, she made the dandelions and she saved the Foretellers, but after that she was done being his puppet and went and did her own thing taking herself out of his vision. Part of me wonders if Ava was in contact with Xehanort/Xemnas, if she was the secret friend he talked to, and if the reason Xemnas refused to use his keyblade was because he was trying to keep the MoM blind to aid Ava. But I digress...

Going by our understanding there are three Daybreak Towns, and three 3 sets of 7 lifeboats. The real daybreak town the original game took place in, some parallel Daybreak Town the Dandelion escaped to, and a digital Daybreak Town that everyone from the second town was transferred into and imprisoned in. Going by this theory, and assuming each lifeboat is only good for 1 use, then the breakdown is something like this...

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????
Set 3: Maleficent, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????

We know Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, and Elrena all make it out of the data town, into this other worldline daybreak town, and end up in the future so the breakdown is something like this...

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, ????
Set 3: Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, ????, ????

Given what we know Luxu saw only 5 travel time and we have very good reason to assume Brain also traveled so I think this breakdown is most likely

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, Brain
Set 3: Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, Brain, Ephemer

So in the end Ventus ends up appearing using Xehanort as his waypoint because Xehanort had memories of UX AND No Name, Brain doesn't travel time instead once he was in the parallel Daybreak Town he used the boat to return to the original world rebuilding the ruined Daybreak into Scala, starting that new order, and setting up the regenerating world eventually growing up to sire Eraqus's line. Skuld showed up in RG because Luxu and No Name were both there. No idea what acted as Lauriam's and Elrena's way point, I assume Lauriam went and got Elrena. Meanwhile Ephemer stayed behind as the leader of the dandelions he wasn't just going to abandon the rest of them there. They found a way to survive and that cues him up for his appearance in KH3 where he sends the power of the dandelions to aid Sora.

 

[Sign]

why are people suddenly spoiler tagging in here, just go ham lol

 

[Vulpes XIII]

Nomura really seems to enjoy teasing the fanbase about what’s in the Black Box, knowing Nomura we probably aren’t going to learn about what’s inside it until the end of phase 2.

I didn’t think about Luxu being the waypoint I honestly though it would be Maleficent given the conversation between her and Darkness a few updates ago but I guess it’s explains how Luxu managed to retrieve subject X and find Lauriam and Elrena to recruit into the Organization

Also speaking of Elrena how is she going to get to the future at this point if that wasn’t her who was put in the ark, since given that whole dialogue about the True Dandelion I don’t think it’s her, I’m guessing she just going to show up when everyone about to leave and Ephemer has to defend the ark against the Darkling alongside the player so everyone can escape which could be the reason he gets left behind?

If that was Quadratum the Master of Masters was talking about then things just got a lot more interesting.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Seven crowns huh? Wonder if that will be tied with Sora who has a Crown necklace

I just had a lightbulb moment, what if the seven crowns are all of the versions of Sora or Sora-adjacent characters in the series?

• Sora
• Roxas
• Namine
• Xion
• Ventus
• Vanitas
• Yozora

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

I can understand that interpretation, but doesn't it seem like Darkness is speaking of the future, not the present? He keeps saying "It was written", but is it speaking of NOW, or what will happen in the future? Because we can confirm it definitely happens in the future.

He says "We COULD divide" and then "needed to be made". It's still vague, is he talking about it needed to happen now, or that it needed to happen later in the future when Master Xehanort does it?

Yes, they kept asking it "Why are you still here trying to stop us?" or whatever and Darkness goes on a rant about Ven basically right? Is it not leaving because it still needs Ven? In which case, I'm not sure the true 'split' it was talking about has happened yet.

These are good points, but I'm still inclined to believe Darkness is referring to the present moment, on the basis of what Ven says thereafter:

"If you're pure darkness, then that makes me pure light. If you used me to reshape yourself, then I can reshape you again."

I take this to mean that the "reshaping" has already occurred once, which can only refer to purification of darkness (and light, presumably, by extension) based on the information we've been given. But, you're still right about it happening in the future as it will happen again: Ven says "I can reshape you again," and we actually see this happen when Ven is split in BBS and Vanitas is created. In other words, the sequence of events is as follows:

Normal baby Ven --> Darkness finds a host --> Darkness is purified thereby --> Darkness splits off from Ven, leaving Ven to be a purified light --> Ven re-joins with Darkness [current update] --> time skip --> MX splits Darkness from Ven once more (edit: and gives it physical form), who has been "re-shaped" into Vanitas

That's my interpretation, at least. But you could be right that Darkness still needs Ven for a "true split" (seen in BBS, I suppose), though I'm not sure how that would qualitatively differ from what we're seeing in these updates.

Another interesting thing to recall at this point is in ReMind, when Sora enters Ven's heart, we actually hear Darkness speak - distinct from Vanitas. In future Sora's time, this is after Vanitas was defeated in the Keyblade Graveyard, though chronologically, Vanitas still existed at that point. So uh... who knows

 

[Squood!]

I swear I'm gonna laugh hard if "Seven Crowns" is just another term for seven lights

 

[kirabook]

These are good points, but I'm still inclined to believe Darkness is referring to the present moment, on the basis of what Ven says thereafter:

"If you're pure darkness, then that makes me pure light. If you used me to reshape yourself, then I can reshape you again."

I take this to mean that the "reshaping" has already occurred once, which can only refer to purification of darkness (and light, presumably, by extension) based on the information we've been given. But, you're still right about it happening in the future as it will happen again: Ven says "I can reshape you again," and we actually see this happen when Ven is split in BBS and Vanitas is created. In other words, the sequence of events is as follows:

Normal baby Ven --> Darkness finds a host --> Darkness is purified thereby --> Darkness splits off from Ven, leaving Ven to be a purified light --> Ven re-joins with Darkness [current update] --> time skip --> MX splits Darkness from Ven once more, who has been "re-shaped" into Vanitas

That's my interpretation, at least. But you could be right that Darkness still needs Ven for a "true split" (seen in BBS, I suppose), though I'm not sure how that would qualitatively differ from what we're seeing in these updates.

Another interesting thing to recall at this point is in ReMind, when Sora enters Ven's heart, we actually hear Darkness speak - distinct from Vanitas. In future Sora's time, this is after Vanitas was defeated in the Keyblade Graveyard, though chronologically, Vanitas still existed at that point. So uh... who knows

I may have to review the old videos again, but it kinda felt like Darkness just walked out of Ven casually (and temporarily) like it wasn't a big deal, compared to what we see later when Ven is forcibly split by Xehanort and it leaves Ven comatose.

What's interesting to me is this scene greatly resembles the Ven vs Vanitas fight when Vanitas has forcibly rejoined Ven. "How about I destroy you both!!" after Vantitas told him the x-blade is incomplete. I guess that's not truly a reshaping, or at least, Ven wasn't the one that did the reshaping.

Eh, I'm kinda rambling. But you may be right. Ven is in an endless cycle of this in a way.

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

I may have to review the old videos again, but it kinda felt like Darkness just walked out of Ven casually (and temporarily) like it wasn't a bit deal, compared to what we see later when Ven is forcibly split by Xehanort and it leaves Ven comatose.

Yea that's an interesting observation. It could be that Darkness becomes dormant in some way after Ven's time jump, whereas here it is willful and conscious. Though I just realized, Darkness also refers to itself as formless, but Vanitas is very much not formless. So it could be that MX not only splits them again, but actually gives Darkness a physical form with which Ven can clash - hence the more forcible act of splitting.

We also still know almost nothing about the nature of the X-Blade, which has bizarrely never been mentioned in Unchained/Union Cross, but I feel like that plays a pivotal role in why Ven was chosen as a host for purification of darkness/light in the first place.

Also rambling here...

 

[Eonstar890]

lol watch the “True Dandelion” be Sora or Riku

 

[KeyToDestiny]

I'm loving how there's less evidence of the "Darkness" hiding inside Ventus not being Vanitas every update. It's like people forget Vanitas' own words in that new cutscene of his in KH3RM right before the clash. The new scene they chose to write in meaning it has value. The same cutscene saying how he was never Ventus' darkness born from him but instead a darkness that simply hiding inside of him as his own separate entity until Xehanort ripped him out of Ventus. There is no "he's the son of that Darkness", he literally is that "Darkness" hence his words.

 

[Nighthawk711]

I think we ALMOST know who takes the 7 lifeboats to exit the Data world:
-Brain (has to in order to eventually give birth to line that is Eraqus)
-Maleficent (already shown)
-Lauriam (becomes Marluxia)
-Ventus (he's there in BBS, he's got to get there somehow)
-Elrena somehow (I mean, otherwise how is she there in the Sora era)
-Luxu (he can't just stay in the data world, he has to continue watching and be there in the future with the box and keyblade)
-Skuld (It's at least hinted because of Subject X, and Ephemer is the only one who hasn't been hinted at PHYSICALLY appearing in the Sora era)

I thought this at first, but Luxu actually jumps bodies so that leaves one more space for alternating those last few choices the two missing spaces are either Skuld, Ava, or many believe Strelitzia... hmmm

 

[Hirokey123]

I thought this at first, but Luxu actually jumps bodies so that leaves one more space for alternating those last few choices the two missing spaces are either Skuld, Ava, or many believe Strelitzia... hmmm

Ephemer needs to escape the data world since it's going to go kaput, but he doesn't need to go to the future. I think part of the reason Nomura had Lauriam and Maleficent duke it out was so we could visually tell the difference between the data lifeboat and the second daybreak town lifeboat rooms, the former now has a bunch of battle damage. This is key to understanding the scene with the true dandelion bit, the room Luxu and Darkness are in is unharmed meaning it's the second daybreak town's room. Ergo he uses one of the seven lifeboat for them and that's only going to leave 5 when the others arrive as Maleficent also used one, this matches Luxu's reports of only watching 5 of them leave.

So Ephemer, Skuld, Brain, Lauriam, Elrena, and Ventus all escape the data world using the 6 remaining pods but when they've arrived they find only 5 pods remain. 1 taken by Maleficent and another used to send that mysterious true dandelions and from there they have to decide who stays and who goes. Skuld, Lauriam, Elrena, and Ventus all go for certain so that leaves only Ephemer or Brain. I think only those 4 traveled time while Brain simply used the last lifeboat to move spatially which doesn't destroy a body or memories. Returning to the original Daybreak town where in he would rebuild it to be Scala starting that new keeyblade order, recreate the world, and grow up to sire Eraqus's line.

Ephemer stayed behind in the second Daybreak town and found some way to help the Dandelions escape. Maybe once in the other Daybreak Town Brain was able to set up some kind of link allowing the Dandelions to escape the data prison so they didn't vanish with that world's shut down. Either way they can't just leave hundreds of wielders alone, they are their leaders someone has to stay behind and lead, and that's a role best suited for Ephemer. Which is evidenced being what happened I think thanks to KH3 showing us Ephemer looks unchanged, contacted us from somewhere, and he was able to send the power of the Dandelions to help Sora and co. This would explain why he only sends the keyblades if they are still trapped in the second daybreak town since all the lifeboats have been used.

Also calling it now the true dandelion is young human Demyx, KH3 was cheekily foreshadowing this by Demyx carrying a white clothed figure (Roxas's vessel) the way Luxu once carried Demyx.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Also calling it now the true dandelion is young human Demyx, KH3 was cheekily foreshadowing this by Demyx carrying a white clothed figure (Roxas's vessel) the way Luxu once carried Demyx.

In both the original Organization XIII and the Seekers of Darkness, Demyx comes before Luxord. The numbering of Organization XIII is relative to their connections to another character either above or below their ranking, i.e., Saix and Axel and Marluxia and Larxene.

I don't see the vessel being Demyx because Luxord is from Quadratum and Demyx is unaffiliated with Lea.

 

[okhi12]

We also still know almost nothing about the nature of the X-Blade, which has bizarrely never been mentioned in Unchained/Union Cross, but I feel like that plays a pivotal role in why Ven was chosen as a host for purification of darkness/light in the first place.

Also rambling here...

Now that you mention the X-Blade... it broke into 13 pieces of darkness and 7 pieces of light. We don't know the whereabouts of the 13 pieces of darkness, but the 7 pieces of light are related to the 7 Princesses of the Heart, most of which are actual princesses of royal blood. And now there are 7 crowns, a symbol of royalty.
Maybe the 7 crowns are the 7 original light fragments of the X-Blade, the pure light essence that is passed from one generation of princesses to the next one.

 

[KeyToDestiny]

In both the original Organization XIII and the Seekers of Darkness, Demyx comes before Luxord. The numbering of Organization XIII is relative to their connections to another character either above or below their ranking, i.e., Saix and Axel and Marluxia and Larxene.

I don't see the vessel being Demyx because Luxord is from Quadratum and Demyx is unaffiliated with Lea.

Not really true as Demyx was a backup member unlike Luxord who was No. V in the real Org XIII.

 

[ZeVaine]

Ephemer needs to escape the data world since it's going to go kaput, but he doesn't need to go to the future. I think part of the reason Nomura had Lauriam and Maleficent duke it out was so we could visually tell the difference between the data lifeboat and the second daybreak town lifeboat rooms, the former now has a bunch of battle damage. This is key to understanding the scene with the true dandelion bit, the room Luxu and Darkness are in is unharmed meaning it's the second daybreak town's room. Ergo he uses one of the seven lifeboat for them and that's only going to leave 5 when the others arrive as Maleficent also used one, this matches Luxu's reports of only watching 5 of them leave.

So Ephemer, Skuld, Brain, Lauriam, Elrena, and Ventus all escape the data world using the 6 remaining pods but when they've arrived they find only 5 pods remain. 1 taken by Maleficent and another used to send that mysterious true dandelions and from there they have to decide who stays and who goes. Skuld, Lauriam, Elrena, and Ventus all go for certain so that leaves only Ephemer or Brain. I think only those 4 traveled time while Brain simply used the last lifeboat to move spatially which doesn't destroy a body or memories. Returning to the original Daybreak town where in he would rebuild it to be Scala starting that new keeyblade order, recreate the world, and grow up to sire Eraqus's line.

Ephemer stayed behind in the second Daybreak town and found some way to help the Dandelions escape. Maybe once in the other Daybreak Town Brain was able to set up some kind of link allowing the Dandelions to escape the data prison so they didn't vanish with that world's shut down. Either way they can't just leave hundreds of wielders alone, they are their leaders someone has to stay behind and lead, and that's a role best suited for Ephemer. Which is evidenced being what happened I think thanks to KH3 showing us Ephemer looks unchanged, contacted us from somewhere, and he was able to send the power of the Dandelions to help Sora and co. This would explain why he only sends the keyblades if they are still trapped in the second daybreak town since all the lifeboats have been used.

Ahh, ok!
That all makes much more sense.

I think the most confusing part is the "Second" Daybreak town that just exists somehow.

 

[Hirokey123]

In both the original Organization XIII and the Seekers of Darkness, Demyx comes before Luxord. The numbering of Organization XIII is relative to their connections to another character either above or below their ranking, i.e., Saix and Axel and Marluxia and Larxene.

I don't see the vessel being Demyx because Luxord is from Quadratum and Demyx is unaffiliated with Lea.

I mean that's kind of all arbitrary? The number is strictly referring to when they joined the organization and nothing more. The first six are the founding members, the next two are Lea and Isa because they were ansem the wise's apprentices to but only joined right before all this went down, and then the last four were just found in no real particularly meaningful order. Xigbar found Marluxia but we don't know when Larxene, Demyx, or Luxord were found just that they were found before or after him. I will say given Demyx was the first real recruit of the org that does give credence to the idea they snatched him up pretty quick, which if he was a special dandelion sent by Luxu he probably was in Luxu's view the entire time.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Not really true as Demyx was a backup member unlike Luxord who was No. V in the real Org XIII.

Yeah, but even as a backup member, he was resurrected before Luxord.

I mean that's kind of all arbitrary? The number is strictly referring to when they joined the organization and nothing more. The first six are the founding members, the next two are Lea and Isa because they were ansem the wise's apprentices to but only joined right before all this went down, and then the last four were just found in no real particularly meaningful order. Xigbar found Marluxia but we don't know when Larxene, Demyx, or Luxord were found just that they were found before or after him. I will say given Demyx was the first real recruit of the org that does give credence to the idea they snatched him up pretty quick, which if he was a special dandelion sent by Luxu he probably was in Luxu's view the entire time.

That's not at all true, it's been proven that the numbering of the members of Organization XIII has a deeper significance.

Terra-Xehanort was founded by Braig and Dilan. Xigbar knew the truth of Organization XIII and helped orchestrate it hence why he's ranked II. Xaldin is ranked III because he helped Terra-Xehanort recover. Even has authority over Dilan and Aeleaus hence why he's ranked IV, Lexeaus is a personal guardian to Zexion hence why they're ranked V and VI respectively, Saix and Axel are best friend's which is why they are ranked VII and VIII respectively and Marluxia and Larxene are from The Age of Fairy Tales (Union Cross) which is why they're ranked XI and XII respectively.

That leaves Demyx and Luxord. We can assume Luxord's somebody to be from Quadratum based on the Kingdom Hearts III ReMind Secret Ending. That leaves Demyx. Xemnas states that Demyx and Luxord are connected to "The legacy of The Ancient Keyblade War". He never said that Demyx and Luxord were from The Age of Fairy Tales. Henceforth, it's a logical deduction to assume that Demyx is most likely from Quadratum just like Luxord.

 

[Sign]

I think people are overlooking that Maleficent and Lauriam accidentally destroyed one of the pods in their battle, leaving only 5 functional pods in the data Daybreak Town.

 

[Clue.Less]

Okay I think I understand stuff about Ava and Luxu better.

Spoiler Show

Luxu told Ava all of this, the whole plan, and it devastated her. Ava realized her true role then and there wasn't to just keep light alive it was to keep her friends, the Foretellers, alive and that's why Ava showed up at the keyblade war. She wasn't there to fight, to win, or lose she was there to save who she could. Ava found the Foretellers, she spoke to them about the truth, and about the lifeboats. The foretellers returned to Daybreak Town as the world was being swallowed and took the lifeboats to escape destruction and travel time just like the MoM did. That's why all the lost masters vanished, they literally traveled time, and they were not set to reappear until they arrived at their way point. That point being beyond the end of the book and more importantly at a waypoint that existed beyond it, which was Luxu once he regained No Name. This is why once Xigbar picked it up all the Foretellers popped into existence, except Ava. Why? Because Ava has her own plans, her own mission, and she set herself up to appear at a different waypoint which Xigbar expected she would.

Mind you like 90% of this was seen by the MoM's eye so you know he deliberately set her up to be crushed and respond in turn by saving them. But I think that's why Ava is missing now, she knew if she showed up when the MoM wanted them to she just be playing into his hands. The only way to avoid being the MoM's puppet is to stay completely out of sight that key. So she played the role he wanted, she made the dandelions and she saved the Foretellers, but after that she was done being his puppet and went and did her own thing taking herself out of his vision. Part of me wonders if Ava was in contact with Xehanort/Xemnas, if she was the secret friend he talked to, and if the reason Xemnas refused to use his keyblade was because he was trying to keep the MoM blind to aid Ava. But I digress...

Going by our understanding there are three Daybreak Towns, and three 3 sets of 7 lifeboats. The real daybreak town the original game took place in, some parallel Daybreak Town the Dandelion escaped to, and a digital Daybreak Town that everyone from the second town was transferred into and imprisoned in. Going by this theory, and assuming each lifeboat is only good for 1 use, then the breakdown is something like this...

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????
Set 3: Maleficent, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????, ????

We know Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, and Elrena all make it out of the data town, into this other worldline daybreak town, and end up in the future so the breakdown is something like this...

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, ????
Set 3: Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, ????, ????

Given what we know Luxu saw only 5 travel time and we have very good reason to assume Brain also traveled so I think this breakdown is most likely

Set 1: MoM, Ava, Ira, Aced, Invi, Gula, ??? (maybe Luxu)
Set 2: True Dandelion, Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, Brain
Set 3: Maleficent, Skuld, Ventus, Lauriam, Elrena, Brain, Ephemer

So in the end Ventus ends up appearing using Xehanort as his waypoint because Xehanort had memories of UX AND No Name, Brain doesn't travel time instead once he was in the parallel Daybreak Town he used the boat to return to the original world rebuilding the ruined Daybreak into Scala, starting that new order, and setting up the regenerating world eventually growing up to sire Eraqus's line. Skuld showed up in RG because Luxu and No Name were both there. No idea what acted as Lauriam's and Elrena's way point, I assume Lauriam went and got Elrena. Meanwhile Ephemer stayed behind as the leader of the dandelions he wasn't just going to abandon the rest of them there. They found a way to survive and that cues him up for his appearance in KH3 where he sends the power of the dandelions to aid Sora.

How are there three daybreak towns? Aren't there just two?