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Pixar villains in Future KH games?



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Do you want to see Pixar villains in Future KH games?


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DizneyXBirds95

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Do you think we might see other Pixar villains in future games in the Kingdom Hearts series, besides only Randall from the Monster's Inc. world in Kingdom Hearts III?





Well that is the question and it's a so-so decision to some of you, Pixar has several different villains/antagonists from their 22 films so far, but it will depend on Square Enix and especially the crew/team at Pixar on what role the antagonists from the films will play in the original story exclusive to KH, and whether or not that specific Pixar antagonist would fit within the original story or simply not add them in at all.

As @GrandWebster said it himself in another thread:
Just like with Original stories with the Pixar movies, The Pixar Villains aren't really threatening and they will not really pose the same level of malevolence as other villains they can utilize.
He's not wrong cause in the majority of their films, Pixar isn't known for their villains in the first place, as the main conflict is the protagonist's internal/external struggles they face in the film (e.g. Woody's jealousy of Buzz Lightyear in the first Toy Story, Marlin's external struggles on finding his son Nemo, Joy's intrapersonal conflict on not allowing Sadness to touch the Memory orbs, Merida wanting to be independent, etc.) of course Pixar does have its well-known villains such as Sid, Hopper, Stinky Pete, Randall, Syndrome, Lotso, and Ernesto de la Cruz, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter in that front for inclusions or not, I know people really wanted Zurg in Toy Box, but I had the feeling he wasn't going to get represented because he's just a minor character in Toy Story 2.

In Randall's role for Monstropolis in Kingdom Hearts III, he was brought back by Vanitas as a "pawn" so he can collect Negative emotions for the Unversed and for Vanitas. Plus, he was just there to be kind of antagonizing the situation to Sora and the gang, which would likely explain Pixar being very restrictive on Monstropolis and why we never got to beat up Randall as a boss in Kingdom Hearts III, which I'm not surprised so I don't blame Pixar's decision on not allowing us to battle him as a boss when compared to Nomura and his team's decision on not making CLU and Gaston bosses in Dream Drop Distance and X respectively.

For Ernesto De la Cruz, depending on the original story for the Coco world (sequel route or prequel route), if they went with the prequel route it wouldn't make sense for Sora, Riku and/or Kairi to encounter him and know about his true nature that he murdered Héctor and stole his music and songs (cause that goes to Miguel who figures it out himself once he finds out about Ernesto's true nature in the Land of the Dead in the original movie) or literally go the same route like what Randall went to in Kingdom Hearts III where he's antagonizing the situation. I think the likely route for Ernesto is have the Coco world be a prequel to the film and have him be just indirectly mentioned, or have a small cameo in one to two scenes in the world, cause he does a Sunrise Spectacular at the end of Dia de Los Muertos, but only to have his concert be briefly interrupted by a Giant Nightmare Dream Eater or Heartless.

For The Incredibles, just like with San Fransokyo (Big Hero 6), given that they have the superhero aspect they can put any random threat in the world (e.g. Underminer, Heartless, the OC Villain (Xigbar/Luxu, MoM, one of the Foretellers), etc.), since its most likely going to take place after the events of the 2nd film instead of Evelyn Deavor as she was arrested. Speaking of which, I also wouldn't get my hopes up on battling Syndrome due to his demise in the first film which will disappoint certain players that wanted to battle him in the Kingdom Hearts series only to have their hopes crushed he's not in the game, so that's that, even the same can be said for Hopper (A Bug's Life) due to his demise.

So that leaves the Underminer as the only Pixar villain left that we can fight as a boss in The Incredibles world unless Pixar pulls a "Randall" on him (which I'm skeptical about).

But what do you guys think do you want some Pixar antagonists in a future KH game or just only leave Randall as the ONLY Pixar Villain/antagonist in the series?

Personally, I'm okay with having more original KH centric stories for the Pixar worlds, but if they do have the Pixar villain/antagonist appear and be involved in the original story, I don't want Pixar to continuously be very restrictive like what they did with Randall in the Monster's Inc. world back in KH3.
 
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Face My Fears

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I need Hopper/Syndrome/Lotso to be boss fights.

If they do Incredibles, I want them to do the film adaptation of the first film. Mr. Incredible and ElastiGirl can be the party members (and during some segments Dash/Violet).

I'm pretty sure the villains will appear, but they may not be boss fights (like Randall). Which I think is stupid, but unlike the Disney properties, the Pixar ones I get doesn't have "fighters" as villains. However, I think it's a bad sign when someone like Randall (who I would consider a "fighter") was skipped as a boss fight. They could have even included Zurg as a mini-boss in Toy Box, but strangely that character was skipped altogether (which made Toy Box somewhat devoid of familiar toys from the franchise).
 

Zettaflare

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As long as they keep using Pixar worlds there's always the chance the villain will be featured in some way. I could see boss fights with Syndrome, Hopper, and Mor'du. They seem like typical combatants.

The other villains I think would just command heartless(or any other enemy) bosses like Randall. Or become heartless themselves
 

AmaryllisMoth

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So, I might end up rambling for a bit so I'll just try to summarize first my main thoughts about the whole "more Disney villains" topic up here then go into detail further down.

Mainly: I think there is a very tricky line that a lot of people don't really consider when you end up throwing multiple villains into the same room together. One is going to outshine the other unless you write very, very carefully or they are working together. In a game like KH with its own OC villains--if they are going to have a presence in a Disney world at all, they are naturally going to have to butt heads with whatever Disney villain is already there. Your options then, are to have the Disney villain shine, to have the OC shine, to have them somehow work as a team, or to set up a situation very elaborately so they don't step on each others' toes. If the writers are trying to follow the plot of the film that makes it even harder as the Disney villain has a very rigid goal and process for carrying it out. So if the Disney Villain is the ultimate bad guy, what is the OC villain doing? Nothing? Jumping in to say random stuff then leaving for no reason? (looking at you DDD...) Having more Disney bosses can run a very real risk of making the Disney world seem out of touch of the "main story" because the OC villains may have very little influence or presence there. Not saying it's impossible or they shouldn't try, I'm just saying it's something I think a lot of people don't consider, but should. Especially since Disney worlds not being "relevant" is another huge complaint people have. Unfortunately it may be the case that often tying a Disney world into the "main" story of the game = forcing the Disney villain to take a back seat so their "plots" don't outshine whatever the evil OC is attempting to do.

If I had to chose between something like fighting Syndrome vs having a new, original plot to the world that isn't a rehash of the movie I would pick the unique plot, personally. However, if they can find a way to do both? Two thumbs up, let's go. But I am fully willing to throw boss fights with Disney villains under the bus if it means we get more integrated OC KH villains and more unique Disney world plots.

To answer your direction question directly about villains, though: So long as the fights with the villains aren't there just to BE there then cool, bring em on. Personally I think Pixar in general is really great in having decently developed villains that make sense for their own story. Having Lotso as a villain in Toy Story makes a lot of sense. But...would Lotso attack Sora? Eh...I mean maybe if he was with Woody? But I don't feel like a lot of Pixar villains would really be motivated to care about Keyblades or listening to Org members tell them to kill some random kid. The Pixar villains aren't really THAT villainous outside of the contexts of their own story (which is kind of what makes them so good). They are mostly just opposed to the heroes in their own, sometimes justifiable way, until their plots kind of get out of hand. Disney villains on the other hand are generally a bit more...on the nose? about being evil. I can easily see Jafar being manipulated. Some random money hungry chef or food critic in Paris? Ehhh....

I think Pixar villains are ambiguous enough that unless they are directly causing harm to Sora's friends because the plot is mirroring the film plot there isn't really a reason for Sora to beat up some old guy in a jungle living in a dirigible museum with a gang of talking dogs.

And if it is an original story plot it's...even harder to justify. Personally I think Pixar worlds are unique, amazing locations all in their own right and I think they are better suited as being sources for new unique KH-centric plots that don't overlap with the original Pixar movie plot, or do so as little as possible simply because the pixar plots are generally more intricate, the villains more nuanced, and the stories are much harder to capture in KH-style bite-sized chunks.

Anyway, below I will elaborate a bit more about how I feel about disney villain representation in general (if anyone cares to read my rant). I'll mark it with a spoiler tag, feel free to skip:

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 
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Dast

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I agree with everything in the previous post and I would add that personally I tend to prefer battles against original gigantic Heartless (our other monster) bosses over those against Disney villains. The Heartless bosses have some really cool and memorable designs and are fun to fight but also notably different from fighting the human-sized OC villains. I haven't found most of the battles against Disney villains particularly memorable or spectacular, save for some giant foes like Cerberus and the Titans.

In KH3, with all the battles against human sized enemies at the end me DLC, I wouldn't switch out the spectacular giant bosses for a fight against Mother Gothel or Randall and I am happy to keep getting more cool original bosses over mediocre fights against movie Disney or Pixar villains but that's just me. I am sorry if I didn't put that well it sounded aggressive, by the way, I didn't mean to.
 

SweetYetSalty

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So, I might end up rambling for a bit so I'll just try to summarize first my main thoughts about the whole "more Disney villains" topic up here then go into detail further down.

Mainly: I think there is a very tricky line that a lot of people don't really consider when you end up throwing multiple villains into the same room together. One is going to outshine the other unless you write very, very carefully or they are working together. In a game like KH with its own OC villains--if they are going to have a presence in a Disney world at all, they are naturally going to have to butt heads with whatever Disney villain is already there. Your options then, are to have the Disney villain shine, to have the OC shine, to have them somehow work as a team, or to set up a situation very elaborately so they don't step on each others' toes. If the writers are trying to follow the plot of the film that makes it even harder as the Disney villain has a very rigid goal and process for carrying it out. So if the Disney Villain is the ultimate bad guy, what is the OC villain doing? Nothing? Jumping in to say random stuff then leaving for no reason? (looking at you DDD...) Having more Disney bosses can run a very real risk of making the Disney world seem out of touch of the "main story" because the OC villains may have very little influence or presence there. Not saying it's impossible or they shouldn't try, I'm just saying it's something I think a lot of people don't consider, but should. Especially since Disney worlds not being "relevant" is another huge complaint people have. Unfortunately it may be the case that often tying a Disney world into the "main" story of the game = forcing the Disney villain to take a back seat so their "plots" don't outshine whatever the evil OC is attempting to do.

If I had to chose between something like fighting Syndrome vs having a new, original plot to the world that isn't a rehash of the movie I would pick the unique plot, personally. However, if they can find a way to do both? Two thumbs up, let's go. But I am fully willing to throw boss fights with Disney villains under the bus if it means we get more integrated OC KH villains and more unique Disney world plots.

To answer your direction question directly about villains, though: So long as the fights with the villains aren't there just to BE there then cool, bring em on. Personally I think Pixar in general is really great in having decently developed villains that make sense for their own story. Having Lotso as a villain in Toy Story makes a lot of sense. But...would Lotso attack Sora? Eh...I mean maybe if he was with Woody? But I don't feel like a lot of Pixar villains would really be motivated to care about Keyblades or listening to Org members tell them to kill some random kid. The Pixar villains aren't really THAT villainous outside of the contexts of their own story (which is kind of what makes them so good). They are mostly just opposed to the heroes in their own, sometimes justifiable way, until their plots kind of get out of hand. Disney villains on the other hand are generally a bit more...on the nose? about being evil. I can easily see Jafar being manipulated. Some random money hungry chef or food critic in Paris? Ehhh....

I think Pixar villains are ambiguous enough that unless they are directly causing harm to Sora's friends because the plot is mirroring the film plot there isn't really a reason for Sora to beat up some old guy in a jungle living in a dirigible museum with a gang of talking dogs.

And if it is an original story plot it's...even harder to justify. Personally I think Pixar worlds are unique, amazing locations all in their own right and I think they are better suited as being sources for new unique KH-centric plots that don't overlap with the original Pixar movie plot, or do so as little as possible simply because the pixar plots are generally more intricate, the villains more nuanced, and the stories are much harder to capture in KH-style bite-sized chunks.

Anyway, below I will elaborate a bit more about how I feel about disney villain representation in general (if anyone cares to read my rant). I'll mark it with a spoiler tag, feel free to skip:

Spoiler Spoiler Show
This. All of this. As much as I would love to fight iconic villains I'd sacrifice it for original plots and not retelling the movies word for word. Most of my least favorite Disney worlds were the ones that just retell the movie plots. It's boring and feels like filler when we know something bigger is going on. The ones that have original plots or blend the two together are amazing.

I love Toy Box for the truly unique feel it brought. It had very little iconic Toy Story locations but the world building it did for the series is among the best. Then there are worlds like Space Paranoids that while had many of the movie elements, helped uncover what was one of the biggest KH mysteries at the time. It even had Disney boss fights. I hope KH can find balance again but if they can only have one I'm in the Toy Box route.

When it comes to the Pixar villains the only ones I would really want to fight would be Hopper, Syndrome, Randall, Waternoose, and Ernesto de la cruz. Not necessarily because of how evil they are but because the gameplay of making them bosses could be fun. Such as Randall turning invisible, de la cruz being a undead skeleton, Hopper for the environment setting, Syndrome because it would likely be flashy, and Waternoose simply for his design. The other Pixar villains wouldn't make for that great of boss fights for me.
 

DizneyXBirds95

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So, I might end up rambling for a bit so I'll just try to summarize first my main thoughts about the whole "more Disney villains" topic up here then go into detail further down.

Mainly: I think there is a very tricky line that a lot of people don't really consider when you end up throwing multiple villains into the same room together. One is going to outshine the other unless you write very, very carefully or they are working together. In a game like KH with its own OC villains--if they are going to have a presence in a Disney world at all, they are naturally going to have to butt heads with whatever Disney villain is already there. Your options then, are to have the Disney villain shine, to have the OC shine, to have them somehow work as a team, or to set up a situation very elaborately so they don't step on each others' toes. If the writers are trying to follow the plot of the film that makes it even harder as the Disney villain has a very rigid goal and process for carrying it out. So if the Disney Villain is the ultimate bad guy, what is the OC villain doing? Nothing? Jumping in to say random stuff then leaving for no reason? (looking at you DDD...) Having more Disney bosses can run a very real risk of making the Disney world seem out of touch of the "main story" because the OC villains may have very little influence or presence there. Not saying it's impossible or they shouldn't try, I'm just saying it's something I think a lot of people don't consider, but should. Especially since Disney worlds not being "relevant" is another huge complaint people have. Unfortunately, it may be the case that often tying a Disney world into the "main" story of the game = forcing the Disney villain to take a back seat so their "plots" don't outshine whatever the evil OC is attempting to do.
@AmaryllisMoth I'm going to go out on a limb, but personally, I'm really against the original villains being in the Disney worlds and just being "there" and not do much while just using the Disney antagonist for their own uses (e.g. Marluxia to Mother Gothel, and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness to Maleficent and her council of Disney villains). Speaking of Marluxia:

In another example, let's look at Tangled. Let's pretend that Mother Gothel hadn't been influenced by Marluxia earlier to make her Darkness go all crazy and warp her into a Heartless. That instead, we get her as a boss fight. We show up to the tower and she's spitting magic at us out the window and the entire fight is a dodge race to climb up to the window to save Rapunzel and Flynn (I dunno). So we beat up Mother Gothel, save our friends, everyone is happy and yay.

But then...wouldn't that only make the "irrelevancy" of Marluxia in that world EVEN WORSE? If the above happened then literally all Marluxia would do in that world is show up, ramble to Sora about their big-bad villain plans like an exposition idiot and then just...leave. After putting Sora to sleep for no reason just for the lulz, I guess.

Instead, what the intentions were, I think, was to have Marluxia elaborate "we are gonna get yer princesses if you aren't careful" then have him outright prove said claim by showing he was willing to manipulate people, turn them into Heartless, endanger the general population, etc all in order to kidnap their target. It was a thinly veiled threat that if Sora and co don't move their butts and get the other Guardians then Repunzel is in very. real. danger. People may disagree with the storytelling, but fighting a Heartless version of Mother Gothel vs herself as she is kind of serves a purpose, in a way.

That was the entire point of the Tangled world: 1) to help Sora understand "love" a bit, in a way and 2) prove that the new Org is def gonna straight up murder his friends if the Guardians don't get their act together.

If it was just a fight against Mother Gothel than half of the entire purpose of the world is just thrown out the window without significant rewrites.
I'm sorry but even if Marluxia thematically fit the world, neither Rapunzel and Mother Gothel respectively never brought up his name again for the remainder of the world after their first and encounter with him which made his appearance very pointless in the world. At least with Monstropolis, Toy Box and San Fransokyo, the inhabitants do acknowledge the Organization XIII member (Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and Dark Riku) and not brush them off like it never happened compared to Marluxia's role in the Kingdom of Corona, particularly the former world when Randall had a "team-up" with Vanitas. Personally, I think Xaldin in Beast's Castle did it much better on replacing the Disney antagonist (e.g. Gaston) in Kingdom Hearts II than Marluxia if you ask me, and I think Young Xehanort, Vanitas (to some degree) and Dark Riku being in the KH3 Disney worlds were handled much better than Marluxia.

On top of it, I'm fine with not battling Mother Gothel as a boss cause she isn't really a fighter in the film only using her lies and deceit to her advantage, plus having a dagger would make her boss fight not interesting, I think she's the only Disney antagonist, along with Hans from the revival era I'm okay not fighting as a boss

I think this could be a discussion for another thread cause frankly, I am in the middle on having the OC Villains "teaming up" with the Disney villains if they are just literally being just "there" in the Disney world and just using them for their own selfish uses (Marluxia - Mother Gothel; Vanitas - Randall; Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and Xehanort to Maleficent's Council in the first KH Game).

To answer your direction question directly about villains, though: So long as the fights with the villains aren't there just to BE there then cool, bring em on. Personally I think Pixar in general is really great in having decently developed villains that make sense for their own story. Having Lotso as a villain in Toy Story makes a lot of sense. But...would Lotso attack Sora? Eh...I mean maybe if he was with Woody? But I don't feel like a lot of Pixar villains would really be motivated to care about Keyblades or listening to Org members tell them to kill some random kid. The Pixar villains aren't really THAT villainous outside of the contexts of their own story (which is kind of what makes them so good). They are mostly just opposed to the heroes in their own, sometimes justifiable way, until their plots kind of get out of hand. Disney villains on the other hand are generally a bit more...on the nose? about being evil. I can easily see Jafar being manipulated. Some random money hungry chef or food critic in Paris? Ehhh....

I think Pixar villains are ambiguous enough that unless they are directly causing harm to Sora's friends because the plot is mirroring the film plot there isn't really a reason for Sora to beat up some old guy in a jungle living in a dirigible museum with a gang of talking dogs.

And if it is an original story plot it's...even harder to justify. Personally I think Pixar worlds are unique, amazing locations all in their own right and I think they are better suited as being sources for new unique KH-centric plots that don't overlap with the original Pixar movie plot, or do so as little as possible simply because the pixar plots are generally more intricate, the villains more nuanced, and the stories are much harder to capture in KH-style bite-sized chunks.
Then again some of the later Disney villains released after Mother Gothel and Dr. Facilier have also become more nuanced and act very reminiscent to the Pixar villains especially with their plot twists reveals like Hans, Callaghan, and Bellwether.

This. All of this. As much as I would love to fight iconic villains I'd sacrifice it for original plots and not retelling the movies word for word. Most of my least favorite Disney worlds were the ones that just retell the movie plots. It's boring and feels like filler when we know something bigger is going on. The ones that have original plots or blend the two together are amazing.

I love Toy Box for the truly unique feel it brought. It had very little iconic Toy Story locations but the world building it did for the series is among the best. Then there are worlds like Space Paranoids that while had many of the movie elements, helped uncover what was one of the biggest KH mysteries at the time. It even had Disney boss fights. I hope KH can find balance again but if they can only have one I'm in the Toy Box route.

When it comes to the Pixar villains the only ones I would really want to fight would be Hopper, Syndrome, Randall, Waternoose, and Ernesto de la cruz. Not necessarily because of how evil they are but because the gameplay of making them bosses could be fun. Such as Randall turning invisible, de la cruz being a undead skeleton, Hopper for the environment setting, Syndrome because it would likely be flashy, and Waternoose simply for his design. The other Pixar villains wouldn't make for that great of boss fights for me.
Couldn't agree more and I'm alright with having the Pixar worlds follow an original story exclusive to Kingdom Hearts, in fact, it's one of the changes that I like and made the Pixar worlds and characters be a part of the KH plot without flanderizing the characters or contradicting certain Pixar movie plot points.

As far goes as Pixar villains/antagonists @SweetYetSalty I agree to all but Waternoose and Ernesto.

I'm fine with Waternoose not being in the story, cause even if he was the former CEO of Monster's Inc., it still made sense for Randall to be the antagonist for the game's story of Monstropolis cause he is one of Pixar's most known villains, and the door that led to the hillbilly family that was destroyed in the film could've possibly been rebuilt for Randall to return, secondly there isn't anyone who remembers Mr. Waternoose compared to Randall and the only thing they remember of him was just the quote before he gets arrested: "I'll kidnap a thousand children before I let this Company Die!" and his Plot Twist reveal, so I don't see the need to have Vanitas to liberate Mr. Waternoose from Prison when compared to Randall and I'm okay with not having Waternoose in the story along with Professor Callaghan/Yokai in San Fransokyo's story.

For Ernesto, he's very cowardly at fighting and prefers running away only just relying on his guards doing the dirty work as shown in the film.

Regarding Hopper and Syndrome, while it would be awesome fighting them since they are one of my favorite Pixar villains it will largely will all come down to whether the team at Pixar wants to have them appear in the KH series or just let them stay permanently dead. Honestly, it just would be unnatural for Syndrome to be suddenly revived from the darkness ala Ursula or Oogie Boogie and/or become a Heartless similar to Scar. As for Hopper If they went with the prequel route for a potential "Bug's Life" world then yeah he could work, I'm just cautious they might pull a "Randall" on Hopper and not make him a boss and just be antagonizing the situation like what Randall went through in KH3. But personally, it's likely they would stay dead at the behest of Pixar.

I do for one like to have a boss battle against Mor'du (Brave), of course, it will come to as what I said in my previous paragraph under the Hopper and Syndrome situation.
 
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MATGSY

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With Pixar's insistence that their worlds be semi-sequels & not straight adaptations or non-canon standalone stories, villains that died like Syndrome or Hopper are probably out of the question. A shame the now retconned Incredibles comics characters are probably doomed to be forgotten, those poor bastards couldn't even get into Lego Incredibles.
 

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Couldn't agree more and I'm alright with having the Pixar worlds follow an original story exclusive to Kingdom Hearts, in fact, it's one of the changes that I like and made the Pixar worlds and characters be a part of the KH plot without flanderizing the characters or contradicting certain Pixar movie plot points.

As far goes as Pixar villains/antagonists @SweetYetSalty I agree to all but Waternoose and Ernesto.

I'm fine with Waternoose not being in the story, cause even if he was the former CEO of Monster's Inc., it still made sense for Randall to be the antagonist for the game's story of Monstropolis cause he is one of Pixar's most known villains, and the door that led to the hillbilly family that was destroyed in the film could've possibly been rebuilt for Randall to return, secondly there isn't anyone who remembers Mr. Waternoose compared to Randall and the only thing they remember of him was just the quote before he gets arrested: "I'll kidnap a thousand children before I let this Company Die!" and his Plot Twist reveal, so I don't see the need to have Vanitas to liberate Mr. Waternoose from Prison when compared to Randall and I'm okay with not having Waternoose in the story along with Professor Callaghan/Yokai in San Fransokyo's story.

For Ernesto, he's very cowardly at fighting and prefers running away only just relying on his guards doing the dirty work as shown in the film.

Regarding Hopper and Syndrome, while it would be awesome fighting them since they are one of my favorite Pixar villains it will largely will all come down to whether the team at Pixar wants to have them appear in the KH series or just let them stay permanently dead. Honestly, it just would be unnatural for Syndrome to be suddenly revived from the darkness ala Ursula or Oogie Boogie and/or become a Heartless similar to Scar. As for Hopper If they went with the prequel route for a potential "Bug's Life" world then yeah he could work, I'm just cautious they might pull a "Randall" on Hopper and not make him a boss and just be antagonizing the situation like what Randall went through in KH3.

I do for one like to have a boss battle against Mor'du (Brave), of course, it will come to as what I said in my previous paragraph under the Hopper and Syndrome situation.
With Waternoose I just like the design, that is the only reason I wanted a fight with him. For Ernesto I think it could work if they were creative. Go the Final Fantasy route where healing items and magic actually hurt him as a undead. This could be the undead pirates gimmick done better. I would be onboard with it.

As far as villains that are fit to be bosses, I think we should look at some of the old KH Disney bosses.

Oogie Boogie is not at all a fighter. He relies on his dangerous arena to do the fighting for him. When you get to him there is very little he can do to you in either KH1 or KH2. I don't think he even directly hits you in KH2. You just wail on him until he runs back into his machine.

The MCP is also not a fighter and is stationed in one spot relying on Sark to defend him, but when he's not he only has digital beams to protect himself but is otherwise a sitting target for Sora and Tron to delete. Not a fighter.

The Cave of Wonders was truly a unique gimmick boss fight, but one of the most unexpected surprises as it is a neutral figure and just a location head. To fight it in KH1 was a shock. But again it's not a fighter it's just a location shaped like a tiger head, yet Sora and friends still wail on it to restore it.

Clayton I don't think needs much explanation. He's a hunter with a gun and all he can do is shoot. He is barely a threat to Sora and friends who have a magic key and regular magic spells, as shown he needed Stealth Sneak just to be a true boss.

Magic Mirror was a really cool boss fight but like the MCP not a true fighter, just a fortune teller, yet they made it one of the more talked about fights of BBS.

Lock, Shock, and Barrel. Do I even need to explain? You are allowed to beat these kids up in at least three different KH games.

With the exception of Clayton, Randall Boggs sees way more action in Monsters Inc then all of the names above, yet is deemed not a fighter while those names are. Hans has a sword and could easily have worked with that wolf Heartless ala a Clayton/Stealth Sneak. I know Disney and Pixar are more restricted now as oppose to when the old KH games came out, but the excuse of not being fit as a fighter just doesn't hold for some of these characters.

I'm not saying characters like Darla from Finding Nemo should be a boss, but Pixar do have some cool looking villains that could be entertaining and memorable boss fights. It's also strange they allowed Rapunzel to be a party member and she's allowed to get hit and Ko'd but we are not allowed to even touch Gothel. True Rapunzel is a part timer, and not owned by Pixar but still.
 

Roxas_Falcon04_#13

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With Waternoose I just like the design, that is the only reason I wanted a fight with him. For Ernesto I think it could work if they were creative. Go the Final Fantasy route where healing items and magic actually hurt him as a undead. This could be the undead pirates gimmick done better. I would be onboard with it.

As far as villains that are fit to be bosses, I think we should look at some of the old KH Disney bosses.

Oogie Boogie is not at all a fighter. He relies on his dangerous arena to do the fighting for him. When you get to him there is very little he can do to you in either KH1 or KH2. I don't think he even directly hits you in KH2. You just wail on him until he runs back into his machine.

The MCP is also not a fighter and is stationed in one spot relying on Sark to defend him, but when he's not he only has digital beams to protect himself but is otherwise a sitting target for Sora and Tron to delete. Not a fighter.

The Cave of Wonders was truly a unique gimmick boss fight, but one of the most unexpected surprises as it is a neutral figure and just a location head. To fight it in KH1 was a shock. But again it's not a fighter it's just a location shaped like a tiger head, yet Sora and friends still wail on it to restore it.

Clayton I don't think needs much explanation. He's a hunter with a gun and all he can do is shoot. He is barely a threat to Sora and friends who have a magic key and regular magic spells, as shown he needed Stealth Sneak just to be a true boss.

Magic Mirror was a really cool boss fight but like the MCP not a true fighter, just a fortune teller, yet they made it one of the more talked about fights of BBS.

Lock, Shock, and Barrel. Do I even need to explain? You are allowed to beat these kids up in at least three different KH games.

With the exception of Clayton, Randall Boggs sees way more action in Monsters Inc then all of the names above, yet is deemed not a fighter while those names are. Hans has a sword and could easily have worked with that wolf Heartless ala a Clayton/Stealth Sneak. I know Disney and Pixar are more restricted now as oppose to when the old KH games came out, but the excuse of not being fit as a fighter just doesn't hold for some of these characters.

I'm not saying characters like Darla from Finding Nemo should be a boss, but Pixar do have some cool looking villains that could be entertaining and memorable boss fights. It's also strange they allowed Rapunzel to be a party member and she's allowed to get hit and Ko'd but we are not allowed to even touch Gothel. True Rapunzel is a part timer, and not owned by Pixar but still.
I honestly agree 100% with what you're saying. Honestly, I was kinda disappointed that Randall wasn't a boss, especially when characters that were not really "fighters", like the ones you listed above were turned into bosses in previous KH games. I hope that in the future more Pixar villains are turned into boss fights, as long as they are story relevant, of course. (I also think Waternoose would have made for a cool boss, but he would not have been story relevant at all to the world, or the overall plot, so I understand why they wouldn't include him.)
 

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If they can get creative with the boss battle designs, I’d love to fight some Pixar villains, Hopper and Syndrome in particular.

The problem to me is less about what the bosses may be able to do and more about how OP Sora has gotten. In KH1, the Disney villains actually seemed like they were more powerful than Sora and it was a challenge to overcome them. But in KH3, he had so many powers that it didn’t seem like any mortal creature could stand a chance against him. So they would need to either nerf Sora, beef up the abilities of some of these bosses so that they aren’t pushovers, or get creative with the battle design like I said before. Personally, I think Dr. Facilier should become the next Maleficent and go around granting villains power “from the other side.”

I think it would definitely be a worthwhile pursuit to figure out how to implement more Disney/Pixar bosses as well as more OC fights in Disney worlds. It changes things up from just having giant damage sponges that have little impact on the story.
 

DizneyXBirds95

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With Waternoose I just like the design, that is the only reason I wanted a fight with him.
I don't blame you, but obviously he wouldn't fit the story for KH3's Monster's Inc. world so as @Roxas_Falcon04_#13 said it himself I'm perfectly okay he's not in it.

For Ernesto, I think it could work if they were creative. Go the Final Fantasy route where healing items and magic actually hurt him as a undead. This could be the undead pirates gimmick done better. I would be onboard with it.
But unlike the Undead Pirates from Port Royal in KH2, Ernesto de La Cruz isn't a fighter and as I said before if you watched the movie, he flees like a coward when the Rivera Family confronted him and went after him and only relies on his guards doing the dirty work.

Frankly, I think it makes sense if they go with the prequel route for the Coco world and have him just be a cameo character, without Sora and the gang ever encountering him, but that's just me.

If they can get creative with the boss battle designs, I’d love to fight some Pixar villains, Hopper and Syndrome in particular.

The problem to me is less about what the bosses may be able to do and more about how OP Sora has gotten. In KH1, the Disney villains actually seemed like they were more powerful than Sora and it was a challenge to overcome them. But in KH3, he had so many powers that it didn’t seem like any mortal creature could stand a chance against him. So they would need to either nerf Sora, beef up the abilities of some of these bosses so that they aren’t pushovers or get creative with the battle design like I said before. Personally, I think Dr. Facilier should become the next Maleficent and go around granting villains power “from the other side.”

I think it would definitely be a worthwhile pursuit to figure out how to implement more Disney/Pixar bosses as well as more OC fights in Disney worlds. It changes things up from just having giant damage sponges that have little impact on the story.
You also had the Disney villains in KH2 that somewhat lie in the middle between the Disney villains seen in KH1 and KH3, such as the returning Oogie Boogie, Hades, and Genie Jafar, along with new ones such as Pete, the Hydra, Sark, The MCP, Shan Yu, Barbossa, and Scar, of course, the latter three Disney antagonists either had Heartless assisting them or been superpowered with darkness (as shown with Shan Yu and Scar).

I'm all in for Dr. Facilier becoming the next Disney villain @Zip as long as Nomura doesn't pull a "Marluxia" when having the OC Villain (e.g. Xigbar/Luxu, MoM, one of the Foretellers) using Dr. Facilier for their own uses, and most importantly not have Disney and Nomura pull a "CLU" or "Randall" on Facilier where he's not fought as a boss and only is just antagonizing the situation.

I actually rather have a balance on the Disney worlds where the OC villains or Disney antagonists are the conflict of the Different Disney worlds instead of having the OC Villains "look better" and use the Disney antagonist for their own selfish uses as seen with Marluxia using Mother Gothel, Vanitas using Randall and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and to a degree Xehanort using Maleficent and her council of villains for their own uses. At least Xaldin, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and Dark Riku's role as the OC villain of the Disney worlds in Beast's Castle, Toy Box, Monstropolis, and San Fransokyo respectively worked very well compared to Marluxia's pointless role in Kingdom of Corona.
 
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Mexican Sora

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I'm sorry but aside from Malificent and maybe even Chernabog, I can't take any other Disney villain seriously in terms of KH context. They're just simply not that threatening. I'd rather just have them command heartless and leave the boss fights to characters that actually pose a threat.
 

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Power scaling in regards to Sora isnt an issue. In every game were he is playable he always starts from ground zero and works his way up due to losing his prior abilities for whatever reason. And that will likely happen again once he returns to life
 

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So, I might end up rambling for a bit so I'll just try to summarize first my main thoughts about the whole "more Disney villains" topic up here then go into detail further down.

Mainly: I think there is a very tricky line that a lot of people don't really consider when you end up throwing multiple villains into the same room together. One is going to outshine the other unless you write very, very carefully or they are working together. In a game like KH with its own OC villains--if they are going to have a presence in a Disney world at all, they are naturally going to have to butt heads with whatever Disney villain is already there. Your options then, are to have the Disney villain shine, to have the OC shine, to have them somehow work as a team, or to set up a situation very elaborately so they don't step on each others' toes. If the writers are trying to follow the plot of the film that makes it even harder as the Disney villain has a very rigid goal and process for carrying it out. So if the Disney Villain is the ultimate bad guy, what is the OC villain doing? Nothing? Jumping in to say random stuff then leaving for no reason? (looking at you DDD...) Having more Disney bosses can run a very real risk of making the Disney world seem out of touch of the "main story" because the OC villains may have very little influence or presence there. Not saying it's impossible or they shouldn't try, I'm just saying it's something I think a lot of people don't consider, but should. Especially since Disney worlds not being "relevant" is another huge complaint people have. Unfortunately it may be the case that often tying a Disney world into the "main" story of the game = forcing the Disney villain to take a back seat so their "plots" don't outshine whatever the evil OC is attempting to do.

If I had to chose between something like fighting Syndrome vs having a new, original plot to the world that isn't a rehash of the movie I would pick the unique plot, personally. However, if they can find a way to do both? Two thumbs up, let's go. But I am fully willing to throw boss fights with Disney villains under the bus if it means we get more integrated OC KH villains and more unique Disney world plots.

To answer your direction question directly about villains, though: So long as the fights with the villains aren't there just to BE there then cool, bring em on. Personally I think Pixar in general is really great in having decently developed villains that make sense for their own story. Having Lotso as a villain in Toy Story makes a lot of sense. But...would Lotso attack Sora? Eh...I mean maybe if he was with Woody? But I don't feel like a lot of Pixar villains would really be motivated to care about Keyblades or listening to Org members tell them to kill some random kid. The Pixar villains aren't really THAT villainous outside of the contexts of their own story (which is kind of what makes them so good). They are mostly just opposed to the heroes in their own, sometimes justifiable way, until their plots kind of get out of hand. Disney villains on the other hand are generally a bit more...on the nose? about being evil. I can easily see Jafar being manipulated. Some random money hungry chef or food critic in Paris? Ehhh....

I think Pixar villains are ambiguous enough that unless they are directly causing harm to Sora's friends because the plot is mirroring the film plot there isn't really a reason for Sora to beat up some old guy in a jungle living in a dirigible museum with a gang of talking dogs.

And if it is an original story plot it's...even harder to justify. Personally I think Pixar worlds are unique, amazing locations all in their own right and I think they are better suited as being sources for new unique KH-centric plots that don't overlap with the original Pixar movie plot, or do so as little as possible simply because the pixar plots are generally more intricate, the villains more nuanced, and the stories are much harder to capture in KH-style bite-sized chunks.

Anyway, below I will elaborate a bit more about how I feel about disney villain representation in general (if anyone cares to read my rant). I'll mark it with a spoiler tag, feel free to skip:

Spoiler Spoiler Show
I understand what you're saying, but KH1 did it just fine. Sure, those villains were connected to the main plot (via Maleficent), but they were still the villain of that world with their own agenda. I don't even think Ursula mentions any of the outside world plot (besides the fact that Sora is from another world) while in Atlantica. NeverLand is a perfect example - tons of main story stuff happened (it was the penultimate world before a major climax in the story), yet Hook is the main boss.

If you look at KH2 - which had the "best of both worlds" with Disney villain and giant heartless fight - there was no advancement of the main plot. I don't think the villain/main boss of a world dictates whether the main plot will advance in the world visit - that comes down to Nomura writing the appropriate scenarios. Why is it in Beast's Castle we get the vibe that Organization XIII is a valid threat and we see their mission unfold, but in Halloween Town/The Pride Lands/Agrabah/Atlantica there's absolutely nothing? We visit those worlds at least twice, so the Disney villain being there can't be the excuse. We could have seen the Organization try to get Jafar's lamp or research the holidays' effect on the heart - but nothing.

If Maleficent's gang were to return, that would feel a little rehashed and she has grown (at least they want us to believe) into a powerful duo with Pete. Honestly, my solution would be specific in world choices and know which ones Disney will allow villain boss fights. If there are worlds that thematically will fit into the main plot of that game, but the villain is banned as a boss fight, then you can use that world to build main plot (for example - I thought if Disney demanded Frozen play out in Arendelle with no Sora interaction, it would have been a perfect world to have Axel/Kairi join the team as "practice" and build up their relationship. It would have been great to see Axel/Larxene chat again as well, all while maintaining the Frozen film playing out). World that will be allowed to use Disney boss fights should find a way to connect the villain to the main plot somehow (like Randall/Vanitas). I mean look at the stretch they did for The Caribbean in KH3.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think Disney villain boss fights are the issue with the storytelling in KH. If Disney villains come across as more powerful than the main villain, then just fix the main villain. I don't think anyone thought that Oogie Boogie, Shan-Yu, or Scar were more threatening than Xemnas.
 

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I'm sorry but aside from Malificent and maybe even Chernabog, I can't take any other Disney villain seriously in terms of KH context. They're just simply not that threatening. I'd rather just have them command heartless and leave the boss fights to characters that actually pose a threat.
Jafar was a reality warping genie, Hades a literal god, Ursula nigh-god level with the trident, Yokai/Syndrome/Screenslaver legit supervillains, MCP & then CLU ruled much of the Datascape, Yes Disney villains can (& should) be a threat if Nomura didn't take every opportunity to undermine them as irrelevant. Scar was the only other being besides Xehanort whose heartless retained his original appearance & the games never acknowledge that accomplishment, yet alone that it should mean something. Jafar could've given the organization whatever they wished & save them a load of trouble but at most they just see him as a distraction for Sora. Masterminds & schemers become pawns to the main villains without given a chance to outsmart them. KH goes out of its way to make the Disney villains look like chumps all the damn time.
 
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Zip

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Power scaling in regards to Sora isnt an issue. In every game were he is playable he always starts from ground zero and works his way up due to losing his prior abilities for whatever reason. And that will likely happen again once he returns to life
It was still an issue in KH3 despite this though due the abilities they gave him early on such as attraction flows and Keyblade transformations. These flashy and OP abilities make it unrealistic for someone like Gothel, Hans, or Randall to be able to fight Sora directly and pose any kind of threat on their own.

That said, the concept of his power reset would normally make it where power scaling isn’t an issue. But when they immediately make him OP again an hour into the game, it renders the whole reset pretty much pointless.

Jafar was a reality warping genie, Hades a literal god, Ursula nigh-god level with the trident, Yokai/Syndrome/Screenslaver legit supervillains, MCP & then CLU ruled much of the Datascape, Yes Disney villains can (& should) be a threat if Nomura didn't take every opportunity to undermine them as irrelevant. Scar was the only other being besides Xehanort whose heartless retained his original appearance & the games never acknowledge that accomplishment, yet alone that it should mean something. Jafar could've given the organization whatever they wished & save them a load of trouble but at most they just see him as a distraction for Sora. Masterminds & schemers become pawns to the main villains without given a chance to outsmart them. KH goes out of its way to make the Disney villains look like chumps all the damn time.
This. Disney villains have plenty of potential. They just need to be used properly. For example, Dr. Facilier has a ton of power behind him and his story could easily be tied into the KH lore by simply making his “friends on the other side” into Heartless. In PatF, his goal was to give them the souls of everyone in New Orleans, which could easily translate into collecting hearts for the Heartless and/or Darkness.
 

DizneyXBirds95

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This. Disney villains have plenty of potential. They just need to be used properly. For example, Dr. Facilier has a ton of power behind him and his story could easily be tied into the KH lore by simply making his “friends on the other side” into Heartless. In PatF, his goal was to give them the souls of everyone in New Orleans, which could easily translate into collecting hearts for the Heartless and/or Darkness.
Diito. Just as long as Nomura doesn't pull a "Marluxia" when having the OC Villain (e.g. Xigbar/Luxu, MoM, one of the Foretellers) just using Dr. Facilier for their own uses, and most importantly not have Disney and Nomura pull a "CLU" or "Randall" on Facilier where he's not fought as a boss and only is just there antagonizing the situation.

Also no offense to @AmaryllisMoth post but I actually rather have a balance on the Disney worlds where it's either the OC villains or Disney antagonists being the main conflict of the Different Disney worlds instead of just having the OC Villains "look better" and use the Disney antagonist for their own selfish uses as seen with Marluxia using Mother Gothel, Vanitas using Randall and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and to a degree Xehanort using Maleficent and her council of villains for their own uses. At least Xaldin, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and Dark Riku's role as the OC villain of the Disney worlds in Beast's Castle, Toy Box, Monstropolis, and San Fransokyo respectively worked very well compared to Marluxia's pointless role in Kingdom of Corona.
 

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I understand what you're saying, but KH1 did it just fine. Sure, those villains were connected to the main plot (via Maleficent), but they were still the villain of that world with their own agenda.
I agree that KH1 did a great job, and I think part of that comes from the fact that the OC villain was at that point in time, Riku (until we learned who "Ansem" was after the Disney worlds were already over), who was kind of working with them to an extent. It allowed Riku to step in at times without really messing with whatever the Disney villain was doing. The times when Riku took the biggest stage, Monstro, the Disney viallin was...Monstro? I guess? Which isn't much. Neverland was fantastic though and that is sort of my point. In Neverland they worked hard to write the OC villain (Riku) to be working with/partnered with the Disney villain and made it believable.

There is definitely a way to write the OC villains and Disney villains together, but it takes some coordination just like how it was done in Neverland. It is certainly not impossible, and great when it works out, but it isn't as simple as having a Disney villain or OC villain just appear in the world.

That, or just have the Disney villain be the main focus and try to advance the plot through ways other than the OC villains (like Atlantica, where that world visit lets us learn a bit more about the Keyblade and such). Unfortunately I think in the games apart from KH1 a huge goal they were trying to achieve is making the OC villains look threatening.

Do I think they wrote every world perfectly? Nope, far from it. Are there more interesting ways to advance the main story than shoving an OC villain in? You bet! And I wish they did it more often. But that's also why I think in general creating unique stories for the worlds is more interesting because then the writers are more free to add in unique situations or mysteries that could actually link to the main story of the game. Unfortunately that means just due to the fact that those unique stories might take place AFTER the movie story means many villains will simply not be around.

@DizneyXBirds95 :
I'm going to go out on a limb, but personally, I'm really against the original villains being in the Disney worlds and just being "there" and not do much
I never said that I think it's great when OC villains just "show up" and do nothing because I agree that is pretty bad. It's a huge reason why I actually dislike basically all the worlds in DDD because that was their exact formula: Disney worlds retell the movie weirdly then OC villains just show up to say weird stuff then leave. If there is a REASON for them to be there then it feels much more natural and better, or if the villains were more...integrated somehow. I think OC villains being in Disney worlds can actually be pretty great. Looking back to KH1 as I mentioned above, Riku antagonizing Pinnochio and his father in Monstro was really well done.

I'm sorry but even if Marluxia thematically fit the world, neither Rapunzel and Mother Gothel respectively never brought up his name again for the remainder of the world after their first and encounter with him which made his appearance very pointless in the world.
Maybe I wasn't too clear but I wasn't trying to use Marluxia as an example to say "hey, here is an OC villiain that was done AMAZINGLY". I think he could have been handled better in that world in many ways. I was just trying to establish that Marluxia's role in that world, as it was written, (which was to directly threaten Sora and to establish how in danger Sora's friends will be if he doesn't continue his journey) would not have worked if we fought Mother Gothel as a person rather than a Heartless. Marluxia did that weird funky purple eye thing with her, which I assume was the direct cause of her "transformation" after falling out of the tower. Marluxia establishing to Sora directly what his intentions are and how capable he is of doing it also doesn't require him to actually interact with Rapunzel or Mother Gothel beyond that, really. Do I think that is the best use of Marluxia? No. Do I think there could have been a better written plot that more integrated him into the story? Yeah, of course! The only reason I brought it up was to just reiterate that sometimes a Heartless version of a Disney villain was actually used for a reason and actually kind of works better for the story as it is written rather than their normal human version.

Take a look at Scar from KH2. We technically fight his Heartless instead of him and I think that works out waaaay better. That way Sora wasn't in any way taking away from Simba's "victory", just stepping in when he realized the issue was out of hand. While to some people they see that as just fighting "Scar" and treat that as a disney villain fight, it is technically of the same nature as the Mother Gothel fight--just that Gothel's Heartless is a lot more...uniquely designed, let's say.

That doesn't in any way suggest I think it's all well written and the best possible scenario, though.

but I actually rather have a balance on the Disney worlds where it's either the OC villains or Disney antagonists being the main conflict of the Different Disney worlds instead of just having the OC Villains "look better" and use the Disney antagonist for their own selfish uses
I don't necessarily think having OC villains looking better is always the right way to go, though. I think maybe you misinterpreted what I was trying to say (which is probably my fault, I don't write the best). I was trying to say that elevating the OC villains by having them mess with other worlds and appear threatening by taking advantage of Disney villains or whatever was what the writers in KH3 were attempting to do (for right or wrong) and that is why they made the decisions they did.

A huge part of my point is that if you don't outright have an OC villain shine or the Disney villain shine, you will need to try very, very, hard to make a scenario where both work together or are working in conjunction in non-clumsy ways. Which is difficult and very often the writers did NOT do this properly. But unfortunately I think people don't often consider how difficult it is to write with multiple conflicting goal villains and just assume the KH staff is purposefully excluding Disney villains because they don't want them and they should just be added in anyway. It's a tricky situation.

Then again some of the later Disney villains released after Mother Gothel and Dr. Facilier have also become more nuanced
True, it isn't fair of me to say ALL Disney villains are less nuanced, but the general feeling I have of them is that they are generally more capable of more "broad" evil acts that would be seen as evil even to characters apart from the protagonists. Quite a number of the Pixar "villains" are only really "villains" because they oppose the protagonist. They are antagonists, not villains.

I think this could be a discussion for another thread
Fair enough, wasn't really trying to derail the conversation. Not sure why you sent me a pm of the post though?

In terms of Pixar characters I can actually see working out, I actually think De la Cruz would probably be the more interesting fight, but it would probably play out quite similar to the Randal one. I can imagine him fleeing his way through his mansion or a party or something with you having to sidestep traps or other pitfalls he throws at you. Or, and I know people will groan at this idea, it will end up being some kind of fight up on stage like in the movie where you have to be pretending to put on a performance while still somehow doing a boss fight, haha. Would be fun, I think. I am all for more creative boss fights especially if they fit the characters. Not all villains are going to come with a weapon and they could have a lot of creative fun with it. To me some weird stage sing-off is just as much of a legit fight as if they did end up just having him locked in a room with us and he comes swinging with a giant guitar or something. I think it's just great when the villains have a presence and good representation of their personality.

Others that I've thought about: Mor'du. My issue with him is that he is honestly just an angry bear. He isn't really the villain in Brave because Brave is more about...emotional growth than an outright villain. It would be a Sabor situation all over again. Which yeah, that could definitely work out maybe as a random encounter that would could be pretty exciting, ngl, but that is kind of the extent of the situation I see him appearing in.

This one is a bit out there, but Auto the AI system on the ship from Wall-E could be super interesting, but again, that would end up being more of a "this villain is hindering our progress" or summoning Heartless somehow rather than directly fighting us. But having to outsmart or escape the clutches of a sentient AI system that is trying to murder you in every room you go into is kind of fun, especially if it is also happening as we are trying to get closer to some other, more directly threatening OC villain that is physically fighting us. Would be like the battle plus the battle arena being against us as the same time.

I guess I think if boss fights are well integrated or true to their characters than I think it's all good!
 
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DizneyXBirds95

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Fair enough, wasn't really trying to derail the conversation. Not sure why you sent me a pm of the post though?
Well, you didn't respond earlier and I have to respectfully disagree with your stance on having the OC Villains than the actual Disney antagonists @AmaryllisMoth. Frankly, I rather have a balance on the Disney worlds where it's either the OC villains or Disney antagonists being the main conflict of the Different Disney worlds instead of just having the OC Villains "look better" than the Disney antagonists while at the same time use the Disney antagonist for their own selfish uses as seen with Marluxia using Mother Gothel, Vanitas using Randall and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and to a degree Xehanort using Maleficent and her council of villains from KH1 for their own uses. At least Xaldin, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and Dark Riku's role as the OC villain of the Disney worlds in Beast's Castle, Toy Box, Monstropolis, and San Fransokyo respectively worked very well compared to Marluxia's role in Kingdom of Corona.

In terms of Pixar characters I can actually see working out, I actually think De la Cruz would probably be the more interesting fight, but it would probably play out quite similar to the Randal one. I can imagine him fleeing his way through his mansion or a party or something with you having to sidestep traps or other pitfalls he throws at you. Or, and I know people will groan at this idea, it will end up being some kind of fight up on stage like in the movie where you have to be pretending to put on a performance while still somehow doing a boss fight, haha. Would be fun, I think. I am all for more creative boss fights especially if they fit the characters. Not all villains are going to come with a weapon and they could have a lot of creative fun with it. To me some weird stage sing-off is just as much of a legit fight as if they did end up just having him locked in a room with us and he comes swinging with a giant guitar or something. I think it's just great when the villains have a presence and good representation of their personality.

Others that I've thought about: Mor'du. My issue with him is that he is honestly just an angry bear. He isn't really the villain in Brave because Brave is more about...emotional growth than an outright villain. It would be a Sabor situation all over again. Which yeah, that could definitely work out maybe as a random encounter that would could be pretty exciting, ngl, but that is kind of the extent of the situation I see him appearing in.

This one is a bit out there, but Auto the AI system on the ship from Wall-E could be super interesting, but again, that would end up being more of a "this villain is hindering our progress" or summoning Heartless somehow rather than directly fighting us. But having to outsmart or escape the clutches of a sentient AI system that is trying to murder you in every room you go into is kind of fun, especially if it is also happening as we are trying to get closer to some other, more directly threatening OC villain that is physically fighting us. Would be like the battle plus the battle arena being against us as the same time.

I guess I think if boss fights are well integrated or true to their characters than I think it's all good!
Regarding Ernesto de La Cruz, depending on where the original story for the Coco world will take place (after or before the events of the film), I think the likely route for Ernesto is have the Coco world be a prequel to the film and have him be just indirectly mentioned by Héctor or someone else, or have a small cameo in one to two scenes in the world, cause he does a Sunrise Spectacular at the end of Dia de Los Muertos, but only to have his concert be briefly interrupted by a Giant Nightmare Dream Eater or Heartless which will be the main conflict of the world.

If Nomura and Pixar do go to the prequel route, it wouldn't make sense for Sora, Riku and/or Kairi to encounter him and discover his true nature that he murdered Héctor and stole his music and songs (cause that goes to Miguel who figures it out himself once he finds out about Ernesto's true nature in the Land of the Dead in the original movie) or literally go the same route like what Randall went to in Kingdom Hearts III. Lastly, compared to Randall and some of the other Pixar antagonists, Ernesto de La Cruz really isn't a fighter and if you watched the movie, he flees like a "pansy" when the Rivera Family confronted and went after him and only relies on his bodyguards doing the dirty work.

Regarding Wall-E, while I love the film honestly I'd rather have Wall-E, EVE and M-O being construction/maintenance robots for Ansem the Wise and his apprentices in Radiant Garden, instead of visiting a world based on Wall-E or doing an original storyline with AUTO returning IMAO, much like how Little Chef (Remy) was brought to Twilight Town from his original homeworld by Scrooge McDuck so that he can continue expanding his culinary Horizons and be Scrooge's Chef at his Bistrot in KH3.
 
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