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Fully flexible PGR4 textures too big to fit on a DVD.



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evil_kenshin

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well while last time it was a rumour (in regards to grand theft auto) this time its confirmed DVD-9 is no longer the best medium to use when it comes to making games, the creates of PGR4 could not fit everything on a single dvd, and refused to make it a multiple DVD game (due to difficulty of linking single player & multiplayer without swapping discs)

Sony: Blu-ray vindicated! - PlayStation 3 News - Australia's PAL Gaming Network

Chalk this one up to delighted giggling in the Sony camp. According to series of posts on the Bizarre Creations forums made by multiple staff members, Project Gotham Racing 4 will only feature a limited set of day / night options for each track, due largely to the difficulty of fitting the required pre-rendered textures onto a DVD.

Ben, a Bizarre Creations staffmember, kicked off the probably unintentional kerfuffle by stating, "You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

Alan M, another staffmember, then clarified by saying, "In the past we've always had day and night and to do this we've had to create a duplicate set of textures for most of the buildings, obviously there is the space on the disc and the time it will take make all those night time textures."

He continued, "For some cities night time is important, as good as Vegas looks in the day everyone really wants to see it at night, so in PGR4 only night will be available, and if you thought Vegas and Tokyo looked good at night wait until you see what Shanghai looks like! So at it’s base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you."

Those hoping for a second disc had their expectations dashed when Ben jumped in again, adding, "Having the game spread across two discs isn't an option for a number of reasons. Sorting out gameplay both in single and multiplayer where you always have to swap discs around would be difficult, and detrimental to the flow of the game. Also, having two discs puts the price of manufacturing up, and that's one we'd have to discuss with the publisher."

Based on these discussions, Sony was quick to get in on the act and point out the benefits of using a larger storage medium. Speaking to Gamesindustry.biz, Dave Karraker, Sony's spokesperson, pointed to the importance of selecting Blu-ray over standard DVD storage as a mechanism for avoiding these problems.

Karraker happily pointed out Sony's foresight, stating, "We took a lot of heat at launch for including Blu-Ray in PS3. Now it looks like that investment is being justified. Next generation games simply need more space on the disc to contain all that high definition content. Take a look at Lair, for example, already pushing 25GB of content, and that is a first-generation title. At 50GB storage capacity, Blu-Ray gives the PS3 plenty of headroom for developers to fully realize their visions well into the future."

Did Sony call it right? Is the lack of storage space a real issue? Did Bizarre Creations take the wrong route by avoiding purely dynamic lighting and using pre-rendered textures instead? Jump on the forums and let us know, as this is only going to become even more interesting as all three consoles move deeper into their lifecycle.


so basically those saying that no game needs more than a DVD disk are now proven wrong, super eclipse among others like him now have proof that games are requiring bigger disc drives than what DVD-9 provides
 

digital gopher

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"For some cities night time is important, as good as Vegas looks in the day everyone really wants to see it at night, so in PGR4 only night will be available, and if you thought Vegas and Tokyo looked good at night wait until you see what Shanghai looks like! So at it’s base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you."

\You lose.
 

evil_kenshin

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umm no, the point of the topic is not about the graphics of the game, but the fact is they could not fit it on a DVD disk no matter what, the storage medium is to small

i don't care about the graphics of weather it looks better or not
 

Omni_VII

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I think it just means that the Xbox 360 will not survive for long if next-gen games cannot fit onto their media.
 

SuperEclipse

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I dont get that logic Omni.. The 360 wont survive long?

That is just to funny. Mass Effect, Elders IV etc are way bigger games and they fit just fine on DvD-9 disk..

This weak, trying to bash the 360 and failing at it..

sounds like a 'oh well we COULD add weeks of work to a project... but... um... yeah it won't fit on the DVD... yeah'

Who cares, I wouldn't buy PGR3.1 anyways
Frankly. I really don't care about the Day/Night settings. Who cares about that if we got a dynamic weather change, that will automatically make the level dark, so that the streetlamps will turn on. I mean.. That's just sick. It's a lot more realistic then some stupid level in the night.

I do believe they are not trying hard enough. God, this will give the Sony fanboys something to chew on for a while. I really don't care, though. If we got Mass Effect on oné DVD 9, I wonder if Bizzare Creations is actually good enough in compression techniques.

Not enough change between HD formats and current DVDs, if you ask me. VHS -> DVD was a legitimate generation jump, offering so much more. HD formats only offer more space (which is nice for games). Need something more: smaller size, scratch-free, who knows.

As for games, yeah it'd be nice, but not worth increasing the console price 50%. The game is still perfectly doable, they just have to find ways around any size limits (keeping promlem-solving skills fresh). More storage space will be a necessity in the future, but not yet.

Bottom line, storage limitations haven't impacted the quality of a game yet, only the techniques employed.

Well, all of this talk is just talk. The only real way to judge is by playing the games. So far, many great games have shipped on DVD9, including PGR3. The 360's DVD9 games have outperformed the PS3's Bluray games both with the multiplatform titles and exclusive ones. The games coming out this fall for the 360 look to continue this trend. Therefore, so far, there is absolutely nothing that Bluray has offered that justifies its inclusion. If, and I mean IF, PS3 games (both multiplatform and exclusive) start to consistantly out perform 360 games, then someone could argue Bluray this and Bluray that. As it stands now, speculation, hype, and smoke are all completely meaningless.

The PS3 doesn't look to even reach the level of 360 games until sometime in 2008 (assuming those games live up to the hype and aren't delayed; also assuming the 360 games stop improving). Could the PS3 surpass the 360 in performance? Maybe, anything is possible. Could the inclusion of Bluray help this? Maybe, although it is still just a storage device and the Cell will have more of an impact on PS3 performance than Bluray. The programming techniques of software development will also have a much bigger impact than a storage device.

So, point is, this is all speculation and hype, as everything has been so far with the PS3. I want to play the games. See with my own two eyes, with my own hands on an actual controller, playing the retail version, that anything done on the PS3 has surpassed the 360's offerings. So far it hasn't. It hasn't even equalled the 360's offerings. No one has played PGR4. No one has played GTA IV. So this talk, hype, smoke, whatever, is meaningless.

I think it's a non-issue. If they wanted to do day/night, there are ways to do it. But PGR4 was promised as a 2007 title, so I am sure there are time constraints too.

The only people that making a big deal out is the SDF..

IMO, I think MS should move to HD-DVD disk or Blu-Ray.. For devs that don't want to compresse and to shut other people up..
 

Omni_VII

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****, SuperEclipse, why must you spin absolutely everything into an insult?

I don't know much about PGR4, but I'm assuming that it will be taking advantage of most of the 360's hardware as the 360 has been out for a while now. If a RACING game which takes advantage of the 360 to its max cannot fit on a DVD, then how will larger scale games fit?

I don't know much about many Xbox games at all, so give me a break. >_>
 

SuperEclipse

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Omni_VII said:
****, SuperEclipse, why must you spin absolutely everything into an insult?
I can say the samething about you and others.. Anything I say bad about Sony you take as insult((I odnt start so lets let go))

I don't know much about PGR4, but I'm assuming that it will be taking advantage of most of the 360's hardware as the 360 has been out for a while now. If a RACING game which takes advantage of the 360 to its max cannot fit on a DVD, then how will larger scale games fit?
It can fit, but that means more time working on it and they want out by 2007.

Bioshock, Mass Effect and GTAIV((yes I know what R* said)) but its fits on DVD9 disk anyway.. So I don't see how a racing game can't put day and night into a game.
 

digital gopher

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God, this will give the Sony fanboys something to chew on for a while.

Sony fanboys can say Blu ray is better. I'll be playing all my games on a DVD. Hopefully this argument will tide you over till some meaningful games come out on PS3
 

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I'm having a hard time grasping this article. How can Oblivion, OBLIVION, fit, but this game can't. I highly doubt that this game is that big, considering Oblivion's immense size. This article is fishy...
 

Black_Star

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I'm having a hard time grasping this article. How can Oblivion, OBLIVION, fit, but this game can't. I highly doubt that this game is game, considering Oblivion's immense size. This article is fishy...
Game length =/= game size.
 

digital gopher

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"As I'm sure you've seen, some of the comments made on our forum have been blown out of all proportion. This has been reported on certain web sites. It seems that a number of fanboys have jumped on the topic... sigh. So it's time we cleared this one up..."

Read it. Live it. Love it.

Studio News - Bizarre Creations
 

SuperEclipse

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I love it, DG... XD

When we started designing PGR4 our primary goals were to create a great and unique experience over and above PGR3, to push the hardware as far as we could, and obviously to ensure that we give great value for money. DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys.
 
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