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Aqua's Lingering Sentiment



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Draxem

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No that's incorrect. YX never said such a thing, only that Ansem visited him.

The one that allowed time travel was MX:



Ansem never had a human form till taking Riku's body. Being born from the heartless process he wouldn't have a humanly form as his humanly form became Xemnas.

That doesn't state that Ansem SoD first manifested as the robed figure so how can you be so sure?

How could Ansem SoD have done absolutely anything at all in the 10 years of his existence if he was a floating robe the whole time? I'm pretty sure Young Xehanort does tell Sora that Ansem left his body behind, in fact he does, right here:
[video=youtube;Ev5Ihys8SAs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev5Ihys8SAs[/video]
2:11:45 I'd say.

Not long after that he actually says it directly again.

There's definitely no solid evidence to say that Ansem started out as the Robed Figure, why would he if he'd existed for 10 years?

Axel makes an interesting comparison between Sora and Ansem SoD saying that only one person other than Sora had kept their emotions post heartless transformation, obviously referencing Ansem. How would he know that if all he'd ever met was this floating sack of shit robe with no apparent abilities?
 

Gram

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Sora admits he was beginning to forget so his retaining of memories wasn't permanent like Xehanort's and when Sora regained human form, despite being incomplete, he's not stated as still be a heartless so while Ansem and Sora parallel they aren't the same at key points.

IX. Could you please gather some information about the main characters? The reason Sora becomes Anti Form, the reason Riku is able to be selected by a keyblade, Kairi's memories of Radiant Garden, Roxas and Namine's differences from other Nobodies, the absence of Sora and them, their parent's and friends, and what about school?

Concerning Sora's Anti Form, you could think that the reason is related to his changing into a heartless once before. In fact, beyond Sora's Nobody, it is natural to assume that Sora is influenced by the heartless. Riku's Dark Mode is similar. By using such a strong power too much, he may have ended up aproaching too close to darkness. There should be a hint about Riku being a choosen wielder hidden discreetly somewhere in the additions to the game, so certainly try and find it. As for Kairi's memories, there's nothing particularly special about them. If I personally recalled memories from before I was 5, I think I wouldn't remember many details about them. That is to say on a general level, there are things I would remember and things I would forget.

Because there is already a detailed explanation of Roxas and Namine being special Nobodies in this volume, please read the specific details there. I'll summarize it so its easy to understand. Essentially, when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a heartless, and on rare occasions thier body changes into a Nobody. But in the case for these two, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape. Moreover, when Sora himself was changed into a heartless he was purified by Kairi. In order for Sora to be revived without following the essential course, the special way Roxas and Namine were born from these types, special Nobodies ended up being left behind. Still, I get the feeling from the story so far that Xemnas might also be a special Nobody.

Secret Ansem Report 12 said:
Apart from Namine', Nobodies retain their memories of their time as humans, but Sora's Nobody, Roxas, has lost his memories. This is likely because Sora's time as a Heartless was short, having recovered his heart and returned to his human form soon after leaving behind Roxas, his Nobody. It would seem Roxas is much like Namine'. Namine' is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul.......

And why wouldn't Axel know of Ansem? The organization were obviously aware of Maleficent as well and pretty much all of KH1, plus Axel revived in the basement of Radiant Garden and states only the ones that became nobodies there revived there.
That tells us Axel was in the basement when Ansem and Xemnas came into being as well.

Young Xehanort says that he "gave up his bodily form". The "bodily" forms of heartless are manifested by darkness so it'd be kinda impossible for a heartless to ditch a body it doesn't truly have, that manifested darkness is the heartless' very self.

That quote points out that Master Xehanort is the source of time travel, not Ansem himself and YX shows that even though the other versions have a body they wouldn't need to discard one to travel.
Ansem gained it from MX and YX gained it from Ansem yet all of them are traveling with bodies because MX done meet the requirement of discarding one.

Xehanot has had three bodily human forms. His old one, Terra and Riku and that quote states bluntly the bodily form that granted travel was MX, not a body Ansem discarded.
And if MX giving up his let's others travel body and all, Ansem needing a 4th body between Terra and Riku to give up to travel makes no sense whatsoever and contradicts what Nomura has stated.
 
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Draxem

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This is hurting my head and although I do have some more points I'm going to leave it there.

All I'm gonna ask is what the f*ck Ansem was doing for 9/10 years as a floating robe.
 

Gram

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All I'm gonna ask is what the f*ck Ansem was doing for 9/10 years as a floating robe.

He may not have been floating around for 10yrs. Ansem was making use of the time travel that MX granted him so for all we know he set things in motion with the heartless and disney villains then went back to YX and then jumped forward to KH1 were he eventually stole Riku's body and later meet his end.
 

Draxem

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He may not have been floating around for 10yrs. Ansem was making use of the time travel that MX granted him so for all we know he set things in motion with the heartless and disney villains then went back to YX and then jumped forward to KH1 were he eventually stole Riku's body and later meet his end.

How could he jump forward?
 

Gram

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How could he jump forward?

One of the rules YX pointed out is that "upon destination one can only move forward as per the laws of time". Ansem started his trip with YX, the furthest point, then just goes forward a bit more to KH1 were he sets KH1 and DDD into motion.

Ansem was shown in DDD to have been setting most things in motion. He ignited KH1 using the heartless and disney villains and he set DDD in motion by giving YX time travel and his mission.

Simply put with all that traveling he was doing it's very well possible that Ansem wasn't "floating around for 10yrs" but rather making use of time travel starting with YX then using his power to move forward to KH1.
The rules state one "can only move forward" and going from YX to KH1 would be very inline with that rule.

(basically saying Ansem may have been time traveling since creation rather than just floating around)
 

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He may not have been floating around for 10yrs. Ansem was making use of the time travel that MX granted him so for all we know he set things in motion with the heartless and disney villains then went back to YX and then jumped forward to KH1 were he eventually stole Riku's body and later meet his end.
He went back to give Young Xehanort the power of time travel and then literally hung out doing nothing until a vessel came along for him to possess. He was one of Xehanort's many contingency plans so it's not as though he lacked patience.
 

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One of the rules YX pointed out is that "upon destination one can only move forward as per the laws of time". Ansem started his trip with YX, the furthest point, then just goes forward a bit more to KH1 were he sets KH1 and DDD into motion.

Ansem was shown in DDD to have been setting most things in motion. He ignited KH1 using the heartless and disney villains and he set DDD in motion by giving YX time travel and his mission.

Simply put with all that traveling he was doing it's very well possible that Ansem wasn't "floating around for 10yrs" but rather making use of time travel starting with YX then using his power to move forward to KH1.
The rules state one "can only move forward" and going from YX to KH1 would be very inline with that rule.

(basically saying Ansem may have been time traveling since creation rather than just floating around)

I was just under the impression that they could only go to the most present moment (currently the ending of DDD) so he wouldn't be able to just skip through to KH1 because it was 10 years away, if you get me? cause otherwise Young Xehanort could in theory time travel to the future to see what shits going on there and see how his plan works out. Time travel hurts my head a lot.
 

Gram

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He went back to give Young Xehanort the power of time travel and then literally hung out doing nothing until a vessel came along for him to possess. He was one of Xehanort's many contingency plans so it's not as though he lacked patience.
That is also very true.

I was just under the impression that they could only go to the most present moment (currently the ending of DDD) so he wouldn't be able to just skip through to KH1 because it was 10 years away, if you get me? cause otherwise Young Xehanort could in theory time travel to the future to see what shits going on there and see how his plan works out. Time travel hurts my head a lot.
Yes but the "most present moment" for Xehanort was when he revived in DDD, not in KH1. And doesn't work that way either cause YX points out anything he learns of his future is forgotten the moment he goes back so it's impossible for Xehanort to cheat and see what his future holds.

Master Xehanort says it himself a couple times "Only the future lies beyond my sight".
 

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That is also very true.


Yes but the "most present moment" for Xehanort was when he revived in DDD, not in KH1. And doesn't work that way either cause YX points out anything he learns of his future is forgotten the moment he goes back so it's impossible for Xehanort to cheat and see what his future holds.

Master Xehanort says it himself a couple times "Only the future lies beyond my sight".

Yeah but at the time of Ansem SoD's creation (or the robed thing more specifically) that was the most present moment for him so he wouldn't have been able to jump to KH1 cause it hadn't happened yet. Also had he jumped to KH1 that would mean he was time traveling the entire time and didn't really meet his end at the end of KH1, just returned to the moment before he initially time traveled. Which would in theory set him on a massive loop. Definitely thinking too far into this now!!!

But basically he can't cheat because he can't remember anything if he does go to the future so we can just rule that out. I think the robed figure did just hang out and do whatever robed things do. Maybe he got his robed washed every now and then? Who knows.
 

Gram

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Yeah but at the time of Ansem SoD's creation (or the robed thing more specifically) that was the most present moment for him so he wouldn't have been able to jump to KH1 cause it hadn't happened yet. Also had he jumped to KH1 that would mean he was time traveling the entire time and didn't really meet his end at the end of KH1, just returned to the moment before he initially time traveled. Which would in theory set him on a massive loop. Definitely thinking too far into this now!!!
That's not how it works though cause if that was Ansem's most present point he wouldn't have been in DDD. All Xehanorts are tied to him, the main Master Xehanort, especially Ansem since he's a heartless with Xehanort's heart at his core.
MX being alive in the present of DDD is what allows all the others to appear there.

Tbh it's best to just not bother with it at all from what I've learned. Somehow, even though they are made from combinations with Xehanort, they all get a free pass to DDD thanks to MX.
Thinking specifics will give you a headache in the end.
 

Draxem

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That's not how it works though cause if that was Ansem's most present point he wouldn't have been in DDD. All Xehanorts are tied to him, the main Master Xehanort, especially Ansem since he's a heartless with Xehanort's heart at his core.
MX being alive in the present of DDD is what allows all the others to appear there.

Tbh it's best to just not bother with it at all from what I've learned. Somehow, even though they are made from combinations with Xehanort, they all get a free pass to DDD thanks to MX.
Thinking specifics will give you a headache in the end.

I sorta understand it now but I just think its all one big mess still and we probably couldn't be further off topic haha
I'm just gonna settle for the robed figure chilled out for 10 years.
 

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Yes but the "most present moment" for Xehanort was when he revived in DDD, not in KH1. And doesn't work that way either cause YX points out anything he learns of his future is forgotten the moment he goes back so it's impossible for Xehanort to cheat and see what his future holds.

Master Xehanort says it himself a couple times "Only the future lies beyond my sight".
That's the present moment for Xehanort now, but it wasn't before.

At the time Ansem goes back, there is no present beyond the events between BBS and KH1. So he waits. He waits until Riku succumbs to the darkness and takes his opportunity to work through another of Xehanort's plans and to remember.

Well the line about the future really means 1) the time stream can't be altered and 2) they can't travel beyond the present because it hasn't happened yet. This is because what's happened up until the present moment in the KH universe is set in stone. So, there is no future in terms of... something beyond DDD at the time this is talked about. The future they're talking about is the future none of these Norts would have seen without YX plucking them out of time, aka everything up until DDD.
 

Gram

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Been so long since I seen Toachan post in a theory thread, I miss it~


Yes that makes more sense.
 

Taochan

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Been so long since I seen Toachan post in a theory thread, I miss it~
I'm sorry. I'll come back to you all, I promise.

Yes that makes more sense.
It's really dumb in how its phrased but it's also very smart in the way they designed the time travel, so they can never alter the past games.
 

Gram

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I'm sorry. I'll come back to you all, I promise.


It's really dumb in how its phrased but it's also very smart in the way they designed the time travel, so they can never alter the past games.
We await you~

That is one thing I do give Nomura credit for. He at least had that much foresight when he added time travel.
 

Draxem

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That's the present moment for Xehanort now, but it wasn't before.

At the time Ansem goes back, there is no present beyond the events between BBS and KH1. So he waits. He waits until Riku succumbs to the darkness and takes his opportunity to work through another of Xehanort's plans and to remember.

Well the line about the future really means 1) the time stream can't be altered and 2) they can't travel beyond the present because it hasn't happened yet. This is because what's happened up until the present moment in the KH universe is set in stone. So, there is no future in terms of... something beyond DDD at the time this is talked about. The future they're talking about is the future none of these Norts would have seen without YX plucking them out of time, aka everything up until DDD.

This is exactly what I meant earlier when I asked how he could go forward but I couldn't word it properly haha thanks man!!
 

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It being the armor is the most logical but we all know Nomura isn't known for the simple reasoning. I only say that though cause I wouldn't put pat Nomura to do something unneeded again like saying Xemnas was using the room to talk to the other Xehanort's or some other complicated crap.
Hopefully that won't happen. Please, please don't happen. And, hey, Xigbar wouldn't be talking to Zexion about hearing another voice in that room if Xemnas was talking to other Xehanorts. Since, ya know, Xigbar would probably know about that if it was the case and so wouldn't have a reason to tell Zexion about it.


Ah, that might be how it'd go, yeah...
Oh, um, a possible possibility popped in my head when reading this comment since I went to watch the scene of Xigbar talking to Zexion.
Zexion clearly showed interest when Xigbar starts to talk about Xemnas and when mentioning "the other "friend"." So I'm thinking that Ienzo might show Sora and friends the underground laboratory and chamber, which, when Sora steps in, causes Aqua's armor to pop up. That's all I have at the moment, but I'm seeing that this could be a good why to move the story.
Maybe start like the way the Lingering Sentiment did. It thinking Sora's an enemy at first and they fight. Or maybe it immediately thinks Sora is Ven and starts talking plot. Oooh, yes. Maybe mentioning talking with Terra recently, or asking how Ven left the LoD (Aqua's Lingering Sentiment: You have your heart back, Ven. I'm so happy!)
That could work.
 

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I read some theories about the scene before where someone deduced that Xigbar was actually trying to find out how much Zexion knew, but Zexion called his bluff and didn't reveal anything. I could actually see Ienzo being the one to show them the way.
 

Gram

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Hopefully that won't happen. Please, please don't happen. And, hey, Xigbar wouldn't be talking to Zexion about hearing another voice in that room if Xemnas was talking to other Xehanorts. Since, ya know, Xigbar would probably know about that if it was the case and so wouldn't have a reason to tell Zexion about it.
Actually Xigbar has shown to be a bit of a troll when teasing truth in front of Siax in days or how his nickname for Xion (in japanese mind you) means 'puppet' which is what she was.
If days has showed us anything it's that Xigbar likes to ease drop on conversations and tease things he knows others won't know.

Ah, that might be how it'd go, yeah...
Oh, um, a possible possibility popped in my head when reading this comment since I went to watch the scene of Xigbar talking to Zexion.
Zexion clearly showed interest when Xigbar starts to talk about Xemnas and when mentioning "the other "friend"." So I'm thinking that Ienzo might show Sora and friends the underground laboratory and chamber, which, when Sora steps in, causes Aqua's armor to pop up. That's all I have at the moment, but I'm seeing that this could be a good why to move the story.
Maybe start like the way the Lingering Sentiment did. It thinking Sora's an enemy at first and they fight. Or maybe it immediately thinks Sora is Ven and starts talking plot. Oooh, yes. Maybe mentioning talking with Terra recently, or asking how Ven left the LoD (Aqua's Lingering Sentiment: You have your heart back, Ven. I'm so happy!)
That could work.

Ienzo leading Sora to the armor isn't out of the question since I could see it as being a plot reason for locating her or something.
 
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