How is Namine a Nobody? A Nobody is the body of someone who's lost their heart that can still act of it's own free will. But after Kairi lost her heart, her body was preserved. How did Namine come to be? Is she even an actual Nobody?
Namine
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A Nobody is "what's left behind by the heart." Since Namine was not only the by-product of Kairi's heart leaving Sora's body, but also someone born in the Realm of Nothingness, she is a Nobody, granted a special one.
I think AtW called her a TRUE Nobody, seeing as how she's literally made out of nothing. But of course, Nomura is yet to explain this, seeing as how Days seemed to bring this matter back into discussion. Other than it, it may be possible she was composed over bits from Ventus, Sora and Kairi, seeing as how she and Roxas were a byproduct of Sora's heart being linked with Ventus' and Kairi's, so perhaps a bit from everyone composed her?
I've been thinking that maybe Kairi has somebody else in her heart much like Sora has Ventus in his heart. Namine just looks so different from Kairi, much like Roxas looks so different from Sora and more like Ventus. Perhaps Nomura will explain this more after the Xehanort saga ends, or it could be another plot point in KH III.
Roxas and Naminé are blonde and not brown/red haired because they were influenced by Ventus, seeing as how Sora's heart is connected to his and, since Kairi's was connected to Sora's, you get a byproduct of a connection of three hearts leaving a single body.
Yeah I always saw Namine as a combination of Ventus and Kairi, the blonde hair brought forth from Ven and the ability to control Sora's memories due to the fact she came from Sora even though she is Kairi's (and a little bit of Ventus's) nobodies.
Y'all probably looking too deep into this. I think it's easier to blame Namine's existence on the simplicity of Kairi's heart leaving Sora's rejected body, which would reiterate that there are very few exceptions to the laws that dictate the creation of a Nobody.
But there are things there to make you believe otherwise, it's not thinking too far into it saying that she has blonde hair because of Ventus or that she can alter the chains in Sora's memories because she is also in a way his nobody too. She is the byproduct of three people.
It's a stretch to relate Namine's blonde to Ven's blonde, not to mention unnecessary as it stands; I don't find the need to draw connections between the two.
Having seen many a threads like this before I think it's best to take the route that we dont really know what namine is. Diz called her a nobody cause he didn't know how to define her.
Granted he also said this made her a nobody in the truest of sense cause Kairi, as a PoH, has no darkness and therefore can't produce no heartless which means normally a nobody wouldn't be born either.
However namine still came into existence anyway when kairi's heart left sora's body even though Kairi was still a complete person and left nothing behind to form her.
Knowing that she some how came to be without having anything to form her kinda makes her hard to truly define in any way.
I have also seen many theories on her blonde hair and being born in CO as influences of ventus but like Nayru's Love stated I think that's probably looking a bit to deep into it.
Though I guess it should be noted that her memory powers over sora are due to her being born as sora released kairi's heart so I guess it wouldn't be to impossible for dormant ven to have also had small, very very VERY small, effects.
Granted he also said this made her a nobody in the truest of sense cause Kairi, as a PoH, has no darkness and therefore can't produce no heartless which means normally a nobody wouldn't be born either.
However namine still came into existence anyway when kairi's heart left sora's body even though Kairi was still a complete person and left nothing behind to form her.
Knowing that she some how came to be without having anything to form her kinda makes her hard to truly define in any way.
I have also seen many theories on her blonde hair and being born in CO as influences of ventus but like Nayru's Love stated I think that's probably looking a bit to deep into it.
Though I guess it should be noted that her memory powers over sora are due to her being born as sora released kairi's heart so I guess it wouldn't be to impossible for dormant ven to have also had small, very very VERY small, effects.
That doesn't jive. Namine didn't just change Sora's Memories, but also those of Donald, Goofy, the Rikki-Clone, Jiminy Cricket, ect. Her power wasn't confined to Sora.
What I want to know is if Namine is Kairi's Nobody, is Kairi a witch/have latent memory altering powers?
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It sort of is but it sort of isn't. Namine only has direct control over Sora's memories but can alter others by proxy. She can only alter the memories of people Sora knows because they're connected by the chain of memories. e.g. Sora shares memories with Donald and Goofy so their chains are linked. Namine can use those chains from Sora to manipulate Donald and Goofy and so on and so forth, but as such, she's limited to memories relating to Sora. Other people, not so much.
It's hard to say since Namine is such an anomaly. It's possible that Kairi has some sort of latent powers but I'm leaning more on them being exclusive to Namine as a side effect of being born from Sora. Characters that are anomalies tend to have exclusive, or near exclusive, powers.
That's a pretty big stretch. If Namine can only control memories directly relating to Sora, how come Donald can't even remember Mickey at one point.
Also, she more or less reprogrammed the Riku-Clone at least twice when it had no memories or proximity to Sora.
Heck, she even erased Jiminy's Journal, which was an actual, physical object.
I'm fine with saying that Namine is an anomoly, even among Nobodies. That's fine. That is actually all the more clear that she is unique, because Xemnas did not indocrinate her into Organization XIII like the others, but simply held her captive and forced her to do his bidding. But clearly she has actual powers in relation to memory that go beyond any link to Sora.
I don't feel any need to strictly define those powers, any more than I feel the need to strictly define what Namine is or how she could have been Kairi's Nobody.
I mean, this isn't particle physics. It's a really fun and beautiful story.
If I'm going to pick nits here, then first off is going to be why when a person is divided do their Hearts become Heartless and their Physical Bodies become Nobodies? Aren't the Nobodies the ones without Hearts, and the Heartless the ones without Bodies?
If I can overlook that, I can overlook anything.
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It's mentioned a few times that her power is to manipulate Sora's memories. Namine even says so herself; she has powers over his memories and those connected to him. I don't remember the bit about Donald forgetting Mickey tho~
Repliku's false memories were based off of Sora's false memories. Just tweaked a wee bit.
Well, erasing Jiminy's Journal goes to show that Namine has other powers besides memory manipulation but doesn't really deter from the notion of correlation with Sora. ;P
I'm not disputing that Namine's memory powers are completely restricted to Sora, but he is the nexus. In universe, if Namine can manipulate anyone's memory at will then one has to wonder why she didn't just screw with the Org. for instance. She's powerful but also a bit limited.
That's cool. Just enjoy the story at your leisure. You can look at it as deeply or not as you like, so long as you enjoy the experience. Just remember: when in doubt, chalk it up to Disney magic.
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That's an etymology joke, and I'd say KH1 does its best to make that clear if you're looking at the Ansem Reports. KH2 doesn't make quite so much of an effort but the joke is there too. The Heartless were named "Heartless" by Xehanort because, well, they were heartless jerks, and the Nobodies were named because they had no identity and were nobodies. Later - and both games make the "later" explicitly part of the joke - they figured out, whoops!, they got it entirely backwards. Surpriiiiise, your existence is a horrible pun! That's why I always figured the two names were directly transliterated from English to Japanese: because Nomura realized he couldn't recapture the exact pun in Japanese.
The Unversed are similar, though the game doesn't spell it out as firmly as KH1 and 2 did "Heartless" and "Nobody." They're "Unversed in their own existence," which if I'm not mistaken, is a quote we only get from Nomura. Except they're creations of the Mind/Soul, aka, the part of the Kingdom Hearts bodily trinity that dictates how one understands their own existence. There's that joke again. Just to cement it, Unversed return to Vanitas' Soul when they die, implying that they weren't just created by his Soul, but like the Heartless and Nobodies, were Soul all along. So this time we're on the ground floor just in time for Nomura's groaner pun is unveiled! We are, uh... so lucky.
Unfortunately, Kingdom Hearts is only batting .75 with clever etymology jokes. You never get a surprise pun for "Nightmare."
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This is wrong, the unversed are creatures of negativity and emotions, namely Vanitas' as they are born form him. The soul, as defined by the kh2 reports, is what gives life to ones vessel and it is the loss of soul that results in natural "death" in kh. Meaning to take out a soul would be to kill a person.
What makes nobodies what they are is the body+soul that lacks their respective heart. If you were to take a soul they'd be only dead bodies.
And like wise the heartless have nothing to do with soul at all as their hearts consumed by darkness, the reason their called "heartless" is cause the heart is lost to darkness and all sense of self and emotion is gone which is in of itself a form of being "heartless" while Nobodies represent the literal meaning of lacking hearts.
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I know Nomura once stated death doesn't exist in kh but that extends to the heart not ones physical body.
When one "dies" naturally the soul expires and the body dies, it is the heart that moves on and persists eternally.
You can see proof in Ventus, his heart has been literally ripped apart to make Vanitas as well as quite literally shattered in order to defeat Vanitas and his heart still exists. (though damaged)
Quite simply souls are a bodies battery and can't be extracted without causing death,until stated in game or by nomura himself otherwise.
Now the mind aspect you brought up is another story, we know the heart is the identity of a being, it is their core, who they are, i.e their mind.
Yet we have the LS at the end of BBS which Terranot makes the comment "why does your mind resist!?" so we know that the LS is a byproduct of the mind in some form. (though not the actual mind itself since we see Terra and MX's hearts talking in blank points)
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Yeah, I guess you guys are right, I was using the Soul as arbiter of emotions and the Heart as body of emotions, but I guess the Heart is arbiter of emotions so well there you go. Though this really takes the wind out of the named "Unversed" for me. "Heartless" and "Nobody" are clever observations on how things end up named, and how different things appear important from different perspectives. If there isn't a third Awful Pun in "Unversed" then it's actually kind of a boring name, like "Nightmare": it's entirely correct, and so no more artistically interesting than if the Heartless had really been heart-free.
Then again, I did find the Unversed kind of boring until the Vanitas reveal, so maybe that's not out of step...
Then again, I did find the Unversed kind of boring until the Vanitas reveal, so maybe that's not out of step...
^ Despite how fun it is, everything in kh quite simply doesn't have a deep meaning or pun behind it. Somethings are simply what they are such as the Dream Eaters.
Though if you NEED to find some meaning in the unversed then I suggest you look at it from another angle. The unversed themselves are quite boring yes but they are extensions of Vanitas, who is a relatively young existence, they represent his negativity at what he is and his inexperience as an entity. He is unversed so to speak, he is young, feels great hatred towards ventus for his weakness but, if the novels are anything to be taken into account, also his sadness at being separated from Ventus.
He feels incomplete, there's a hole in his being that he feels he can't fill. The unversed are very much the same as their incomplete creatures just vanitas' rampaging negative emotions such as rage, sadness, and possibly depression that he doesn't know how to deal with or work out.
Simply the unversed are kinda a window into Vantias' inner feelings.
Though if you NEED to find some meaning in the unversed then I suggest you look at it from another angle. The unversed themselves are quite boring yes but they are extensions of Vanitas, who is a relatively young existence, they represent his negativity at what he is and his inexperience as an entity. He is unversed so to speak, he is young, feels great hatred towards ventus for his weakness but, if the novels are anything to be taken into account, also his sadness at being separated from Ventus.
He feels incomplete, there's a hole in his being that he feels he can't fill. The unversed are very much the same as their incomplete creatures just vanitas' rampaging negative emotions such as rage, sadness, and possibly depression that he doesn't know how to deal with or work out.
Simply the unversed are kinda a window into Vantias' inner feelings.
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