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Revelation of the Unbirth



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You'll see why this is in the Days spoiler section momentarily. I'd like to say beforehand that, by the time you're done reading this, you'll know what the Unbirths are, what state of being MX is in, and why Roxas looks like Ven, among other things which I may add later. Some of this is rehashed/revised from what I've previously said

So to start, let's check on enemy symbolism. Yes, I already know there are literally three or so other topics on this currently in the FoKH section but, to be honest, that's where my inspiration came from. I decided to examine the enemy symbols (more or less for shits and giggles at first), but ended up discovering something.

1. Heartless

Heartless_emblem.jpg


The heart portion of the symbol is very obvious to decipher. It represents a heart shackled in darkness. But look at the bottom. How it branched off. Why? Why wouldn't it just be a shackled heart?
Well, I for one was immediately reminded of a fleur de lis:
350px-Fleur-de-lis-fill.svg.png


Now, a fleur de lis is often indicative of some sort of trinity. This is not the first time we've come across such a thing in the KH series:
NaminesNotebook.png


The three "prongs" on the Heartless symbol definitely aren't referring to the Heartless, Nobody, and whole being though, that's a given.
With that in mind, what could this triumvirate represent? I don't think I even need to say.
The trinity of the being. Heart, body, and soul.

2. Nobodies

Nobodies.jpg


Something should have struck you as odd with the Nobody symbol. It's clearly got a heart in there rather than, say, a symbol for the soul and/or body. This may reveal the nature of the three symbols; that, instead of the symbol just showing what the enemy is, it shows the enemies connection to the heart. The Heartless symbol is a full, generic heart (aside from the three prongs), so one could say it has a direct connection to the heart.

When we look at the Nobody symbol, we first notice how it's rotated 180 degrees, which reflects the whole "another you" spiel.

Flipping it right-side up for demonstration purposes:

Nobodies2.jpg


You might be able to spot a similarity in common with the Heartless symbol. It has a main "Heart" symbol connected at what would be the apex with three prongs. Now we're on a roll.

Nomura described the symbol as a "splintered Heart," and that's exactly how the connection goes. Notice the circular pieces missing between the prongs. The connection between them (the body, soul, and heart) has diminished and, therefore, the body and soul suffer (they become non-existent). On the Heartless symbol, the prongs are still in-tact because the Heartless does not suffer this incapacity since the heart is the source of all power. It's just shedding extra weight. You should note that while the connection to the heart is faint for Nobodies, it's still there.

Filling in the holes:

Nobodies3.jpg

(Did this quickly, don't care)

We can see how close it is to the Heartless symbol. The main difference is the proportion between the prongs and the heart. The heart is going to be smaller since the connection is diminished and the prongs are going to be larger since Nobodies are only bodies and souls.

And finally...

3. Unbirths

Unbirths.jpg


Something's not right here. Seriously not right.

Is there a heart in this symbol? You might think so, but there is not. Rather, the symbol structure gives the impression that there is a heart in that negative space. And we know what symbol is making the impression of the heart:

newemblemjy6.png

unbirthsymbol-1.jpg


That symbol represents memories. Memories (or fractured memories, considering how the symbol is snapped and bent over) create the impression of a Heart. Sound familiar? Well, hey, that's what Nobodies do! But am I suggesting that the Unbirths are just some sort of... precursor to the Nobodies? Of course not, there's much more to it than that.

We've examined the "Heart" piece of the Unbirth symbol, but what about the prongs? They don't seem to appear in this symbol. Or maybe they do...

Unbirths2.jpg


It's just that there's only two prongs. The middle is mysteriously absent. Given the fact that the Heart is not actually there, I would say that the missing middle prong was supposed to be the Heart.

So what does this say about the Unbirth? First, as I said, they have no heart (technically; I'll get back to that). But unlike the Nobodies, they have zero connection to a heart. Suffice it to say that these beings never had a heart.

Do we know of a being that is similar to a Nobody already? Actually, we do.

Day 23 Secret Report: Research Log 326 (Vexen) said:
The plan is going more or less smoothly. Concerning the most superior replica, "No. i", it is going almost too smoothly. The other that we couldn't acquire a number for was brought to Castle Oblivion, with the plan to do further research with it. These replicas, at least isn't it acceptable to call them special Nobodies?

The replicas.
Hold up, GA, the replicas have hearts!
... Do they?

Let me ask you two questions: Why would Vexen call the replicas "special Nobodies" if they were technically complete beings? Since when did Organization XIII learn how to create hearts?

While the exact process of cloning is unknown, we know the start of it. The Organization has used memories to create the replicas. If they could use memories to create hearts, why wouldn't they simply make replicas of their own hearts using their memories?

That's because they can't. When making replicas, they do the next best thing.

Nomura said:
The heart is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things.

Heart... no form, memories... form heart. Memories can act as a surrogate for a true heart. They can be made into an artificial heart.

That's what the replicas have. No hearts just bodies, souls, and memories to act as a heart.
And that's what the Unbirths are. Bodies and souls infused with fragments of replicated memory.

Where do the bodies and souls come from? Well, before the Heartless, when the heart is swallowed by darkness, the body and soul do not disappear because there are no Nobodies. Xehanort stores these bodies and souls in the castle basement. We could probably infer that they would be similar to the state Kairi was in (she was, after all, branded as a puppet [like a "doll"]). Without a heart, someone loses their identity, their "proof of life." So if they were instilled with memories and those memories took the shape of a heart, then their being would reflect that identity.

Still, you gotta wonder, where did the body and soul for Repliku and Xion come from? My guess would be that they still have left over bodies down in the basement. The question is... did they use generic dolls from the no one particularly important... or perhaps someone we know?

Can these replicas feel? I'm sure they can since they do have a "heart," though, as even Repliku has said, there's an overwhelming sense of feeling "empty."

It brings light to the condition of the Nobodies as well.
As Nomura has said, "In order to assume a new existence, information about their own personal circumstances must first be gathered. A Nobody's main characteristic is that without a heart they use memories to form the parts of a personality and emotions. For them, memories have become an essential element."

He has recently brought up the question of whether or not all Nobodies (not just Roxas) have hearts in the Days Ultimania. I think we have our answer. They don't. None of them do. But the memories can act as a "heart," like with the replicas. The stronger their ties are with the chain of memories, the stronger they can feel. Rather than feigning emotion on a superficial level based on memory or trying to reject those feelings altogether, some Nobodies, when having a bond with their heart through memories that tie the two together, can experience emotion. It explains Axel. And Namine. And Roxas.

Roxas. Ven's Heart? No. Ven's memories? Yes. When Ven was erased, his heart didn't go inside Sora. His memories did. And then Roxas was born. A body and soul imbibed with the memories of another. And he looks just like Ven. Sounds like an Unbirth. But no, Roxas is a Nobody (he is, after all, born from nothingness as the remnant of a lost heart). A very, very special Nobody. Born under the conditions of a Nobody, but definably an Unbirth.

I should stop for a moment and emphasize the two ways in which we've seen memories used by these beings. They act like a heart and can connect to other hearts.

Let's use Roxas as an example.
He starts of without memories of Sora, but contains a "Memory Heart" from Ven. Since the chain of memories in this "heart" are not connected to anyone else, they are isolated. Moreover, he cannot remember Ven because these memories act as a heart rather than normal memories (you'll notice how Repliku initially didn't have Riku's memories, but later was forced to have them). Roxas cannot experience emotion despite having a Memory Heart (I'll just call it that for now on). Gradually, the chains create bonds with Axel (and Xion), allowing him to feel. One memory heart can connect to another memory heart. And his memory heart can obviously connect to a real heart as well, whether it's Sora or Kairi.

So, some Organization members choose not to make new bonds to strengthen their emotion (meaning their memory heart becomes stagnant), others do.

Now that we know just exactly how special Roxas is as a Nobody, what about Xemnas? Nomura has suggested he's special too. And here's my explanation:

Let's talk about Xehanort's name. The anagrams "Another" and "No Heart" are said to be of significance to Xehanort. So, since Master Xehanort bears the same name, it follows that "Another" and "No Heart" apply to him as well.

"Another." Having used this as a password, even Xemnas is aware of that word's connection. Now, thinking in retrospect, I was immediately reminded of Xion, ie replicas. Xion, "Another" Sora. Apply that to Master Xehanort. Master Xehanort is "Another." Another someone.

"No Heart." It means exactly what it says. Master Xehanort has no heart. Don't go up in arms just yet, though. This does NOT make him a Nobody (If Roxas can have a heart as it's been suggested and still be a Nobody, then surely someone can lack a heart and NOT be a Nobody). Unlike Nobodies, which are beings that once had hearts, Master Xehanort was born, or rather created/replicated without a heart in the first place.

So keep in mind that Master Xehanort is a replica with no heart.

MX is an Unbirth. I would guess that whoever is the original is going around, taking out people's hearts, and shoving in replicated fragments of his dark memories to create Unbirths (so Unbirth that look the same are based on the same memory). Or maybe MX himself is doing it, being the most superior replica. Either way, it's two birds with one stone. You get a heart and make an Unbirth.

Well I think that's enough for now. I have more to say, so I'll probably go back and edited this within the next few days or so (concerning things such as dual wielding, more on Xehanort, etc).
 

_EX

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I knew before I saw this that it was going to be huge. I better read it then.

So Xion and Repliku are Unbirths?

Other than that I think its really really good.
 
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_EX

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Good read but so much that I forgot parts of it. :tongue:

Basically Replicas are unbirths because they wernt considered regular people just as "special nobodies" even though they have body souls and hearts like regular people do.
Ven's memories are in Roxas (or maybe it was Sora), not Ven's heart, which give Roxas that appearance. I think.
 

chex

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Yeah I got that. Ven's heart isn't in Sora, his memories are. Then his memories created Roxas when sora turned into a heartless.

What was the xion deal again?
 

Traskix

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ven goes into sora (memories) which go into roxas, namine and xion and they're all connected to one memory
 
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_EX

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Yeah I got that. Ven's heart isn't in Sora, his memories are. Then his memories created Roxas when sora turned into a heartless.

What was the xion deal again?

Xion is an Unbirth if what he is saying is true. Same with Repliku
 

chex

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I get it now. Replicas have soul, body, and memories.

I have another question though. What is the difference between an actual heart and memories? It seems memories are as strong as actual hearts so there isn't really a point in having an actual heart.
 

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Wowwww. You've just made sense of so much stuff! It's crazy. But I agree with chex. If Memory Hearts can be/are just as strong as an ACTUAL heart, then what's the point of having a heart? Just to physically exist is all I can come up with.
 

Zeagal

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Wow, you always blow me away.

One bit I didn't quite care for being Roxas' memory heart. While it made sense as far as how it affects Roxas, I don't get how it would or would not affect Sora. I get how Sora's own heart overrides the memory heart of Ven and allow Sora's appearance to remain unaffected, but how do you suppose it fits in there?

Another thing that I was questioning being Aqua and Ven's "erase me" bit. Going by this it almost seems like Aqua is not the one to do it which I agree with, but I was hoping for some clarification.

One final bit here, the original of MX being MTAV perhaps? Assuming there is an original of course, and I honestly don't think there needs to be one for this to work. It almost makes it harder seeing as MX is toying with Ven and Terra. It just doesn't make much sense for an Unbirth to be that interested. Then there's the kingdom hearts MX is after and his keyblade and DS and a possible Castle Oblivion....there's a lot of pieces.
 
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You said a lot of things I was already thinking myself (though of course in a far more structured way).

If they could use memories to create hearts, why wouldn't they simply make replicas of their own hearts using their memories?
Not sure how this applies, but Nomura has made it a point that the Organization was never looking for their own hearts. So, it seems they never wanted to go back to the exact way that they were before, just to be complete in general.

Another thing that I think could help you with this is the fact that both Xion and Repliku had to be brought to Castle Oblivion to be completed as Replicas. With Castle Oblivion existing before the Organization, I think it definitely would tie in to this idea.
 
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Good stuff GA. The replica theory is definitely the strongest theory out there.
 
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Wowwww. You've just made sense of so much stuff! It's crazy. But I agree with chex. If Memory Hearts can be/are just as strong as an ACTUAL heart, then what's the point of having a heart? Just to physically exist is all I can come up with.
Well, I think there might be some privileges that a real heart has over a memory heart (which I'll go over later, don't feel like typing it out now). I wouldn't at all say it is just as powerful as a real heart. Plus, something's just wrong about having a non-real Heart, even if it functions like a real one.

Repliku puts it best:


Also, on that note, I'd like to point out a random thing:
YouTube - KH Re:CoM, English cutscene: 94 - Twilight Town: Riku's Visit (Part 3)
YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep Terra Gameplay
Repliku's death actually does look like an Unbirth death.
They're both surrounded by a sort of billowy darkness with specs of light in it.

As for why Xion was so different, that's easy. She was based primarily on the light memory of Kairi, a Princess of Heart.

One bit I didn't quite care for being Roxas' memory heart. While it made sense as far as how it affects Roxas, I don't get how it would or would not affect Sora. I get how Sora's own heart overrides the memory heart of Ven and allow Sora's appearance to remain unaffected, but how do you suppose it fits in there?
I'm not entirely sure that Sora was unaffected to be honest.
It's something I've been thinking about for a while now (even outside of this theory). Funny you should bring it up.

If Roxas bears an uncanny resemblance to Sora, then couldn't we say the same about Ven? That he and Sora are physically similar? After all, it would be a senseless double standard otherwise. Roxas looks like Sora but Ven (who looks exactly like Roxas) doesn't?

That's why I think Ven very well may have had an effect on Sora's appearance.

One final bit here, the original of MX being MTAV perhaps? Assuming there is an original of course, and I honestly don't think there needs to be one for this to work. It almost makes it harder seeing as MX is toying with Ven and Terra. It just doesn't make much sense for an Unbirth to be that interested. Then there's the kingdom hearts MX is after and his keyblade and DS and a possible Castle Oblivion....there's a lot of pieces.
Audo and I have both suggested MTAV as being the original, and I think it's a real possibility.

It makes sense from what we've been given so far that BbS would follow suit.
KH1 main antagonist is a Heartless.
KH2 main antagonist is a Nobody.
BbS main antagonist is an Unbirth.

You could really say the same about a Nobody or Heartless being "that interested." And I'm willing to bet that MX was the first Unbirth.

I don't mind it, to be honest. This would suggest that the main antagonist of the entire series is not Xehanort (as we have always thought). That's just a red herring. It'd be a nice change up.

Not sure how this applies, but Nomura has made it a point that the Organization was never looking for their own hearts. So, it seems they never wanted to go back to the exact way that they were before, just to be complete in general.

Another thing that I think could help you with this is the fact that both Xion and Repliku had to be brought to Castle Oblivion to be completed as Replicas. With Castle Oblivion existing before the Organization, I think it definitely would tie in to this idea.

Right, forgot about that. Still a little lost though, really.
They don't want their own hearts but they want to be complete.

I understand that it's in the nature of a Nobody to seek hearts and that the apprentices intentionally cast theirs aside but... something just seems amiss. How do they want to be complete then?
 

_EX

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GA are you saying that Repliku and Xion are unbirths?
 
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Right, forgot about that. Still a little lost though, really.
They don't want their own hearts but they want to be complete.

I understand that it's in the nature of a Nobody to seek hearts and that the apprentices intentionally cast theirs aside but... something just seems amiss. How do they want to be complete then?
I never quite understood it either, back when playing KH2.
I suppose they were just thinking that KH would make them complete in a different way.
I suppose it is much like Xehanort's Heartless, who became a complete being by stealing Riku's body instead of his own.
 

_EX

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Unbirth=replicas

Xion/Repliku=replicas

Xion/Repliku=Unbirth

So there are unbirths after BBS. I thought there wernt. Oh well, you know your stuff I wont disagree.

I never quite understood it either, back when playing KH2.
I suppose they were just thinking that KH would make them complete in a different way.
I suppose it is much like Xehanort's Heartless, who became a complete being by stealing Riku's body instead of his own.

I took it as they just want the feeling of being whole. They didnt really care how they got that feeling so they didnt care whos or what kind of heart they got.
 

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I'm not entirely sure that Sora was unaffected to be honest.
It's something I've been thinking about for a while now (even outside of this theory). Funny you should bring it up.

If Roxas bears an uncanny resemblance to Sora, then couldn't we say the same about Ven? That he and Sora are physically similar? After all, it would be a senseless double standard otherwise. Roxas looks like Sora but Ven (who looks exactly like Roxas) doesn't?

That's why I think Ven very well may have had an effect on Sora's appearance.
I get where you're coming from, but I don't understand how it would affect appearance and at the same time it seems impossible for it not to affect Sora's appearance. Sora was still Sora before Ven's memories were involved and he was still Sora after, however I find it hard to believe that the memories of someone much older than Sora wouldn't affect him. I suppose if the transfer is done correctly by ensuring the memory has no chains to the actual heart most side effects could be avoided.

Audo and I have both suggested MTAV as being the original, and I think it's a real possibility.

It makes sense from what we've been given so far that BbS would follow suit.
KH1 main antagonist is a Heartless.
KH2 main antagonist is a Nobody.
BbS main antagonist is an Unbirth.

You could really say the same about a Nobody or Heartless being "that interested." And I'm willing to bet that MX was the first Unbirth.
I can't see the main antagonist not being an Unbirth in some shape or form, but my first point in that bit was that I don't think someone needs to necessarily have an Unbirth or be a replica of someone. I didn't mean to imply that MX was a whole normal being or was not created or altered by someone as I've supported that idea for a while. He probably was the first Unbirth as it would also follow the pattern set by the other games. As far as being 'interested' is concerned, I suppose it all just fits with the person's plans. I'm sure MX has a reason, I guess meaning that Unbirths are not like heartless in that they just act on instinct.

I don't mind it, to be honest. This would suggest that the main antagonist of the entire series is not Xehanort (as we have always thought). That's just a red herring. It'd be a nice change up.
It would be rather interesting and even put a darker tone on BBS because TAV in some ways could be seen as antagonists.
 
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