What would you change about KH:DDD story?

[magic713]

Next part of my series: Any change you'd like to make to this game, big or small?

This game is another game I know so little about. The only stuff I know is what I heard. I did hear this is where they implemented one of my most disliked tropes: Time Travel. Unless time travel is already established at the very beginning of a series, I hate when it is used for a plot device. It's jumping the shark. So yeah, throw that out.

 

[Elysium]

I suppose I’m one of those rare people who love Dream Eaters—and 3D itself for that matter—but I sort of wish Donald and Goofy had been the party members (for both Riku and Sora). Or, if nothing else, D&G with Sora and Dream Eaters with Riku—since Riku is a Dream Eater himself in this game. Another alternative is both would have one Dream Eater and one of D&G. So Riku with Komory Bat and Goofy, Sora with Meow Wow and Donald. The silence is the only thing that gets me about wandering around in games that aren’t lead by SDG. Thankfully this game isn’t as bad as BbS because at least you have the Dream Eaters moving around of their own accord and making animal sounds, so you’re not completely alone. And I really would not want the Dream Eaters cut altogether, just I wouldn't have minded some voices as you're fighting / exploring. That could've been solved with D&G having more involvement.

I know a lot of people are going to say "Wahwah, Kairi should’ve been here!!" And to that I say thank God this fanbase isn't in charge. While looking at the series and the character objectively, I could agree she probably should’ve had a bigger role in both KH1 and KH3 (not that I’m sad at all that she didn’t… SorryNotSorry, she's easily the worst character and screentime won't fix that), I definitely do not agree that she should’ve had a bigger role here or in CoM, both of which are focused on Sora and Riku’s relationship to one another. Even 2 is so much about Roxas and Riku that Kairi would be out of place with a bigger role in that one as well, imo. *shrug*

 

[Zettaflare]

Definitely would have had Kairi take the exam along with the boys. I'd have her start out with the Necho Cat Dream Eater since she was shown with one when they first introduced Data Greeting.

She could have been antagonized by Terranort the same way Xemnas did to Sora and Ansem to Riku. Endgame would have played out the same with Sora getting captured and Riku and Kairi teaming up to save him. Of course if she took the exam and became a Master her storyline in KH3 would have changed but I'll save that for that thread

 

[MATGSY]

Kairi as third playable character.

CLU, Frollo, TWEWY enemy of some sort, & either Coachman/Honest John/Monstro bossfight (reminder that we didn't get BBSFM for a long time so DDD could've been a way of giving players FM content like rE:Coded gave us the Roxas fight). Perhaps the lot of them could be Kairi

The plot doesn't really start until the last world. Admittedly I don't really know how specifically to fix that but maybe have less of Ansem/Xemnas foreshadowing that they're gonna explain shit eventually & start explaining the shit earlier.

 

[Zettaflare]

Not really story related but I'd also have NPCs for the Disney worlds. They were big enough and could have had a few areas with some residents

 

[MATGSY]

Not really story related but I'd also have NPCs for the Disney worlds. They were big enough and could have had a few areas with some residents

Oh yeah, there is literally no one outside of cutscenes, not even main film characters.

 

[Zackarix]

Scrape the plot and start from scratch, maybe use the game as a Xehanort backstory or something. It's very clear that expanding KH3's first act into its own game really hurt the story overall.

But if I must keep the overall story:

Kairi should have been around before the secret ending, even if she's only in a supporting role. If Donald and Goofy are allowed to hang out in Yen Sid's tower there's no reason Kairi can't be there as well.

Ditch the time travel and just use replicas.

Don't write Sora as unintelligent. Stop tearing him down just so Riku can look better.

Sora and Riku forgetting all their abilities so that they can learn the "right way" isn't compatible with the story of taking a mastery exam. Find a different excuse for why they're at level one again.

 

[Zetta slow]

I'd get rid of the drop gauge. It's so stressful.

 

[KudoTsurugi]

I’d just add Kairi. Have her train with Merlin as a tutorial, then join the exam proper with Sora and Riku.

 

[disney233]

As much as I adore the Dream Eaters...the Nightmares just...don't fit well as bosses, letalone enemies. It's just so fucking ridiculous to me seeing Frollo, one of Disney's darkest villains, ally himself with some fucking gargoyle that looks like a unicorn barfed on it as it sprays confetti everywhere it goes. idk, the Heartless & the Nobodies should've been the main enemies as intended, as seen here.

Another thing is, I agree with the sentiment of adding Kairi with Sora & Riku. I don't get why she couldn't just be apart of the Mark of Mastery as well. Like, why can't she? Why can't she have a chance to hone her Keyblade powers as she does the test? Why can't she for once DO SOMETHING WITH SORA AND RIKU? As I've constantly said, I'd be damned to even call SRK a trio, because most of their moments together...AREN'T together. From a gameplay perspective...every trio has teamed up at some point EXCEPT, SRK. Even MDG fought with each other in Twilight Town in 2.

Disney party members alongside the Dream Eaters. We've had a lot of missed opportunities in the game to teamup with the Disney characters. Quasimodo, Sam & Quorra, MDG. Just the occasional party members that BBS did.

 

[MATGSY]

Ditch the time travel and just use replicas.

Or give Xehanort 12 Disney/FF villains to boss around.

 

[Zackarix]

Another thing is, I agree with the sentiment of adding Kairi with Sora & Riku. I don't get why she couldn't just be apart of the Mark of Mastery as well. Like, why can't she? Why can't she have a chance to hone her Keyblade powers as she does the test? Why can't she for once DO SOMETHING WITH SORA AND RIKU? As I've constantly said, I'd be damned to even call SRK a trio, because most of their moments together...AREN'T together. From a gameplay perspective...every trio has teamed up at some point EXCEPT, SRK. Even MDG fought with each other in Twilight Town in 2.

It doesn't make a ton of sense for somebody who just got her Keyblade a few weeks ago in-universe to be taking the Mark of Mastery. You can certainly argue that they could have come up with a different plot that would have enabled a trio story instead of a duo one, but within the terms of the story they told it makes sense that she isn't taking the exam. Which is why Sora and Riku shouldn't have been stripped of their powers - why are they being tested at the time when they're supposed to be re-learning what they know? (And why isn't Yen Sid actually teaching them?)

What doesn't make sense is Kairi being completely uninvolved. What happened to "waiting isn't good enough"?

I know a lot of people are going to say "Wahwah, Kairi should’ve been here!!" And to that I say thank God this fanbase isn't in charge. While looking at the series and the character objectively, I could agree she probably should’ve had a bigger role in both KH1 and KH3 (not that I’m sad at all that she didn’t… SorryNotSorry, she's easily the worst character and screentime won't fix that), I definitely do not agree that she should’ve had a bigger role here or in CoM, both of which are focused on Sora and Riku’s relationship to one another. Even 2 is so much about Roxas and Riku that Kairi would be out of place with a bigger role in that one as well, imo. *shrug*

Can I just say that it's this sort of attitude that's left Kairi in such a sorry state? "Okay Kairi can have time in the spotlight, but only if the story actively calls for it and she doesn't step on anybody else's toes." Meanwhile other characters have stories with them specifically in mind. Maybe Kairi would be a better character if they had actively created roles for her and developed her personality (see manga Kairi) instead of demoting her to extra and turning her into a stock shonen heroine. (And nobody would consider Riku to be the best character if he had gotten the Kairi treatment after KH1. He'd be dismissed as a stock shonen rival.)

And I don't consider CoM to be a Sora & Riku story. Sure, there's a Sora story and a Riku story, but they never directly interact and while their bond is present it's never central. If anything CoM is an indirect Sora & Kairi story because that's the bond that Namine is manipulating.

 

[Elysium]

I think the desire for stronger female characters in media is what drives the push for Kairi. It's too bad it's misplaced with her. The Kairi character has never been worthy of that energy. Even when she was at her "best" (KH1), she was only an object. Sora and Riku were already great characters in that first game... Even Ansem SOD, who was a bit bland (like most of KH's final villains), had Billy Zane's great performance lifting it. They didn't need follow-up games to make them that way. It would only be to this game's detriment to make the least interesting character in the series a playable character you're stuck with for 10+ hours. Well, I'd say that for the series as a whole, too, really.

Besides, three scenarios were already proven to be a mistake in BbS, imo. I would never have wanted a repeat of that, least of all for that character. And to the point about a game being written with her story in mind, that is how it should happen for Kairi if it ever happens for her. (Not that I want it, but speaking hypothetically.) But that kind of contradicts your point in regards to this game though? So much of 3D revolves around Sora nearly becoming a vessel, Riku being a Dream Eater... Sort of a continuation of CoM and 2 where Riku operates as a shadow to Sora in many ways, willing to do what Sora can't or wouldn't. Where would Kairi have fit in all of that? Other than to completely alter the story to suit her, or divvy up a part of Riku's role and give it to her. No thanks. And it would be sort of laughable for Kairi to become a Keyblade Master, and not Sora.... I remember there being a lot of eyerolls about Riku getting that before Sora, it would've been even worse if it happened with a character who hadn't done anything for the entire series prior.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

Honestly with DDD I would just change a few things. The Sleeping Realm and Dream Eaters were nice concepts for the series and worth keeping around with a few tweaks.

1) Replace the entire Mark of Master Exam. Sora, Riku, and yes Kairi are setting off to have a adventure of their own together and stumble into a Maleficent plot who's trying to gain access to Kingdom Hearts through the Sleeping Realms. They go through the Disney sleeping worlds, get Dream Eaters, Kairi gets development and playtime, this is the official "Destiny Trio" game now. Meanwhile Mickey, Donald and Goofy have their own plot of trying to pull them out of the Sleeping Realms with Maleficent having forces in both the sleeping and awake worlds. Young Xehanort and the Org still return of course.

2) Don't pretend like we were always building up to this. One of the main reasons this game is seen as a mess is it tries to stitch everything together like this was the Xehanort plan all along. This is where the time travel comes in. It makes itself and the previous games that came before it fall apart. Just let it be it's own story.

3) I don't know if ReCoded did this or this game but one major change is when a Heartless and a Nobody are destroyed they do not recomplete the original. To me this hurt the Organization a hundred times more then growing their own hearts. Have the Organization come back through unnatural means, there is plenty of Disney Magic lore that works for both heroes and villains. I already said in another thread, have Xehanort make a deal with Hades back in BBS. As for Axel and the scientist they can be in a Disney purgatory state and have to earn their humanity or something. Imagine them being ghost in Halloween Town lol.

4) Axel works and earns his Keyblade. Just animate the chapter from the DDD novel and it's perfect. I know I keep bringing up the novels but they really did a better job with certain aspects of the series and this is one of them. Either that or don't give Axel a Keyblade at all. He really doesn't need one.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

Riku concept KH3 by MCAshe on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

I'd probably change the outfits to be like this one. It's more like a training outfit to me.

I'd make the Dream Eaters more like Digimon than Pokémon. You'd get one with a more defined character. Sora and Riku are tasked with mentoring them. It's a part if the test and let's it be a flip on their dynamic with Donald/Goofy/Mickey.

I'd scrap time travel and use it in a different game.

I'm ok with skipping past the Mark of Mastery and probably would do something like @SweetYetSalty or @Zackarix .

I'm a fan of Neil Gaiman's Sandman so I'd have the realm of Dreams be literal. There is a Dream King/Queen who decides to put Sora and a Villian of your choice in a competition. They are curious about the worth of personal ambition in mortals. Sora is chosen because he has no real goals/desires beyond saving his friends. So it's a character study and turns the bug into a feature.

I really hated Sora because of this game so I'm making him more appealing...just go with it.

The levels are more like Psychonauts and it's a character's dreams. Some are returning characters while some aren't.

Aurora should pop up as Dreams became her element similar to Namine's memories. It's a side effect of her curse which I got from Once Upon A Time.

The opening level is based off the Platinum Demo for FfXV. Sora, Riku, Kairi are on a childhood mission for treasure or something. It's a dream that foreshadows the end of the game...

 

[Vulpes XIII]

Remove the fight with Anti-Black Coat

If the Mark of Mastery exam has to remain in the game Let Sora pass it, he has saved the world enough times that should of been good enough for Yen Sid to pass him

 

[disney233]

ALSO, ya'll remember in the KH1 thread, the thread that started it all, when I suggested to just...fucking scrap Wonderland? In all honesty, Wonderland had no reason to be...such a constant returning world in this series. Rather, DDD would've been the PERFECT place to put it. Is it not fitting that a world conjured through Alice's dreams is placed in the game on the topic of sleep & dreams? I'd honestly say replace Wonderland with Notre Dame.

 

[Zackarix]

I think the desire for stronger female characters in media is what drives the push for Kairi. It's too bad it's misplaced with her. The Kairi character has never been worthy of that energy. Even when she was at her "best" (KH1), she was only an object. Sora and Riku were already great characters in that first game... Even Ansem SOD, who was a bit bland (like most of KH's final villains), had Billy Zane's great performance lifting it. They didn't need follow-up games to make them that way. It would only be to this game's detriment to make the least interesting character in the series a playable character you're stuck with for 10+ hours. Well, I'd say that for the series as a whole, too, really.

Besides, three scenarios were already proven to be a mistake in BbS, imo. I would never have wanted a repeat of that, least of all for that character. And to the point about a game being written with her story in mind, that is how it should happen for Kairi if it ever happens for her. (Not that I want it, but speaking hypothetically.) But that kind of contradicts your point in regards to this game though? So much of 3D revolves around Sora nearly becoming a vessel, Riku being a Dream Eater... Sort of a continuation of CoM and 2 where Riku operates as a shadow to Sora in many ways, willing to do what Sora can't or wouldn't. Where would Kairi have fit in all of that? Other than to completely alter the story to suit her, or divvy up a part of Riku's role and give it to her. No thanks. And it would be sort of laughable for Kairi to become a Keyblade Master, and not Sora.... I remember there being a lot of eyerolls about Riku getting that before Sora, it would've been even worse if it happened with a character who hadn't done anything for the entire series prior.

The main motive behind wanting a better role for is that she was introduced alongside the series protagonist and deuteragonist and was central to the story of the first game. They were introduced as the Destiny trio, but because one third of that trio has been completely neglected they've become the Destiny duo and a third wheel. And yet despite this she's apparently important enough to have characters reflecting her in other trios, even if it means retconning a girl into a pre-existing male duo. And there's no way they'd make a game starring Terra and Ventus that drops Aqua or a game with Roxas and Axel that drops Xion, even if they weren't playable they'd have major supporting roles.

"Bland" is very subjective, there were plenty of people who liked Kairi in KH1 and wanted to see more of her. There are also people who find Aqua bland in BbS, but because she gets to actually do things she's become the franchise's most popular female character and even had the complaints of her being bland addressed in 0.2 by focusing on her inner struggles. Turns out that the best way to fix a bland character is to develop them, which requires actually using the character instead of taking any excuse to bench them.

And they have been actively benching Kairi. Even if it means contradicting her character development (not wanting to be left behind then being completely uninvolved in the next game to feature her friends) or breaking the rules of the story (Data-Roxas exists because Data-Sora does, but Data-Namine doesn't need a Data-Kairi).

I'm not sure what your second paragraph is going on about, given that I've never argued the story we got should have had Kairi as a main playable character, only a supporting one. Would it be stepping on Riku's toes for Kairi to already be training with Merlin or waiting in Yen Sid's tower?

The point about stories actively being created with characters in mind is that sometimes a plot is driven by wanting to give a character spotlight. They didn't have to have the game that sets up KH3 be Riku-focused (or anyone else in support cast considering how useless they were in KH3) it was a choice because they wanted to give Riku an opportunity to shine. Or to cash in on his popularity, depending on how cynical you are.

I could understand the "do not waste time trying to fix Kairi," attitude if she was fleshed out and was a dumpster fire of a character. But when the main point against her is that she's underdeveloped and you're opposed to developing her you're basically arguing for her to remain a bad character.

 

[Elysium]

I think it's more a case of Nomura becoming addicted to trios late in the series that is why people examine Kairi's minimal role in the past and want to retoractively "correct" something that isn't really wrong. The direction the series was in the beginning just doesn't match where it went over time, which highlights how unplanned the story is. He never envisioned Kairi to be an important character--or for trios to be that important for that matter--in KH1, it just sort of grew into that. That's the difference really. Characters like Aqua and Xion were setup to be a fundamental piece of a trio in BbS and Days. KH1 wasn't centered on a trio relationship, only Sora as solo protagonist.

You're right that "bland" is subjective...just like this whole discussion of what should be changed about the series (if anything) is. Aqua was a popular character from the outset in a way Kairi was not. It definitely didn't happen because of 0.2. I'd argue 0.2 came about because Aqua was popular... The reason for that is because Nomura showed an interest in Aqua in her first appearance in the series in a way he didn't in Kairi for whatever reason. And I thought I was pretty clear that I don't think Kairi is a bad character simply because she's underdeveloped. I don't like the character because I find her uninteresting whenever she's onscreen.... A lot of that is down to dialogue, voice acting, design, etc. I've never liked this character. It's not because she was underdeveloped in KH1... Ansem SOD wasn't any more developed than she was, and shined in that game in a way the Kairi character failed to.

 

[Zackarix]

So whether or not they're immediately a breakout character should determine if a character is expanded on? I thought fan whims shouldn't dictate the direction of the story? Or did that only become true after the fanbase matured enough to start calling out the shoddy of Kairi instead of cheering it on?

The idea that Kairi was never meant to be an important character is an after the fact rationalization of her poor treatment. They wouldn't have given a Keyblade to her if that was true. In fact, the "This time I'll fight," line originated in Deep Dive. If anything I'd be willing to bet that Kairi having an expanded role in the sequel was the original plan, but because they've never prioritized her they ended up kicking the can down the road until we got where we are now.