What Makes a Government Just?

[Light121]

a question to ponder when we think about what our governments are doing. we may wonder, 'that's not fair,' or, 'is justice really fairness?' which john rawls states. Maybe we wonder whether the government really essentially needs to be just. But then, What exactly is Justice then? How is it that we know that our government is in fact 'just' and capable of reaching this standard of justice. More than all of that, is justice the most important thing for the government to provide and attain, or is there something greater? If there is something greater, is it not really just another conception of justice?

Moreover, what kind of government would be the most just? Democracy, communism, maybe a socialist government. (all of this in theory of course.) Last, is a just government even possible? What would a government need to provide in order to be just in totality?

Justice and government, let's begin.

 

[Hidden]

Let's begin purely on government- what is its purpose ultimately, taking away all the trimmings and technicalities?

Simply- to govern.


The next poster may attempt to work this concept of "justice" back into discussion, but consider the above contention when you do.

 

[evil_kenshin]

to be honest there is no goverment that is just, each is corrupt or unfair in its own way, just different methods claiming to be different yet are full of greed lol

i mean constantly you hear countries like America or Australia claiming they are a democratic society, yet while i can't speak for America being an Australian citizen i have often seen where goverments will ignore what the people wanted

i mean for example sending our troops to iraq/apfganistan, Australia overall said it didn't want to go, yet howard went in anyways and now more and more troops are constantly being sent over

and it happens constatnly like the IR laws that came into place, a majoroty of Australians said no to it (and a minority said yes) yet somehow they still came into Power

goverments are not just at all, just some can be classed better than others

 

[Dawning Twilight]

justice is perception no? so in the eyes of the governement whenever they do something they percieve as just then that is when they are a just government. of course this doesn't cover perceptions by other people so truly a government is never purely just because there are simply far too many people with different perceptions to make on government 100% just.

 

[Light121]

but then who said a just government is going to listen to what others want? without knowing exactly what justice is, how would we know if (in theory rather than practice, i've no doubt in practice all systems fail) perhaps a communist government, or a socialist government or a dictatorship were in fact most just? Plato defines justice as giving each their fair due, so what effect would this conception of justice have on the 'just government'? wouldn't that then be the government that can supply each with their 'fair due'? how would we know that wasn't communism?

as for government's purpose and rights, pick a social contract theory, and see where that leads. Locke or Hobbs? Each provides a completely different conception of society (and it's needs). (yeah, a lot of government is perception, there are so many conceptions of everything it's out of control, so a lot of most everything we encounter in life is perception. Which perception seems the most correct in our eyes?)

 

[Ysu]

DT got it. Justice is a Perception. What you think is just, is just to you. So in the eyes of any Government, they are Just. Therefore, according to that logic, "all governments are just."

Theres also no such thing as a Democracy. I don't get why the propaganda states we are "spreading Democracy." The only thing I see being spread is blood, guts, and a Republic.

 

[Square Ninja]

Theres also no such thing as a Democracy. I don't get why the propaganda states we are "spreading Democracy." The only thing I see being spread is blood, guts, and a Republic.

...because the United States is the only nation-state to ever be associated with democracy, right?

What I don't get is why people complain about mentioning democracy and the US in the same sentence. I am very aware that we are a republic, but we do have a fair degree of democratic process.

 

[Ysu]

Reminds me of my Business Law class and a debate about flag burning.

Some dumb redneck: America is the only country I know that has all these freedoms.
Me: America isn't even the biggest Democracy, thats India. America doesn't even have the most freedoms, thats Denmark.

We're not the only Democracy and there really isn't much room left on this earth to "spread it." I complain when the US and Democracy mentioned in the same sentence because its usually coming from someone with a close minded view on the world.

 

[Light121]

the 'close-minded' view comes from not really knowing about any world that a person doesn't live in, i think, so the resaon for 'close-mindedness' can often just be ignorance.

anyway, that's part of why i raised the question. Who decide what's best, what's most, 'just'? most people in our world (most people i've seen anyway) will just go along with it all no question. What i'm asking isn't how the government views itself, it's how do the peopl view the government, and what exactly are their standards? Government in in of itself is subjective and self-protecting. At some point every government has made an act against it's citizens, but when are these acts justified the most and when are they blatently 'unjust'? How do we quantify how the government should act toward any situation? Better question, is it even possible to? At what point do we need our government, and at what point do we need it to end? (go anarchy!)