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The Unversed symbol comes from... [Theory?]



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Chie

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This is just a bunch of points I'm putting together to kind of guess where Nomura might be going.
  • Vanitas, who spawned the Unversed, recently claimed to exist before he was taken from Ventus, and has also referred to himself as being "darkness".
  • A character who calls themself Darkness exists in the time of KHUX, although they haven't been seen clearly (if they even have a physical form).
  • The Unversed symbol appears in the Scala ad Caelum alphabet, from one presumes many many years before the Unversed were created. Conversely, no other "monster" symbols appear in the Scala alphabet at all (at least not on any of the textures we've been shown).
  • People have noted that the KH3 model of the black coat has an updated zipper pull that might be the Unversed symbol.
  • The black coats date back at least to the era of X.
We can conclude even just from point 3 that the Unversed symbol predates BBS by a long time; in light of that the other points seem to be suggesting a deliberate movement towards the origin of the symbol being revealed as relating to X era or earlier. But also...
  • According to him in KHUX, the Master of Masters grew up during a battle between light and darkness in which the darkness took human form (though wasn't human).
Considering all of this, I want to make the guess that the Unversed symbol was originally the symbol of the side of darkness in this mysterious conflict. From this we can probably guess how it got to the Unversed in BBS - whoever this "Darkness" is is from that side, and he either is or is linked to Vanitas, and thus the monsters Vanitas spawn carry the ancient symbol from that long ago war. (The fact that where the symbol came from is an unnecessary point to explain is part of what makes it seem likely to me that Nomura would go out of his way to explain it by linking it with the new stuff.)

While writing this I also found this great thread which points out its similarities to the Gigas symbol. While that thread speculated that the Gigas are thus also connected to darkness, I wonder if it might be the other way around; the symbol is an inversion of the Unversed/darkness symbol because it was the symbol of the side of light. (Personally speaking, I'd love for beings representing light to be the antagonists of the next saga; I'm sure everyone has already thought about how that would play out with the MoM/Foretellers.) (This is another good thread about the Unversed symbol.)

EDIT: Would it have been better to put this in the KHUX board? I put it in future because it involves all the different parts of KH right now but the most pertinent information (MoM's backstory) comes from recent KHUX stuff and that's a smaller board.
 

Soldier

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Or, OR maybe this symbol is a case of the bootstrap paradox. The book of prophecies that the Master of masters has dictates "everything that will happen in the future" past the foreteller saga. This was demonstrated with illustrations of the heartless, darksides and other symbols that are related to the "modern day" of kingdom hearts. The master of masters could have seen the unversed symbol in the future and incorporated it into the coat design. The residents of Scala ad Caelum could have seen/taken the symbol and used it in their alphabet, in which Xehanort would have likely seen it. Thus the origin of the symbol is unknown due to the seer-like capabilities of MoM.
(It's also worth noting that Vanitas referring to himself as "Darkness" could just be a blanket statement in reference to the element/concept. Light and dark are synonymous with each other in this franchise, can't have one without the other.
 

Dast

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(It's also worth noting that Vanitas referring to himself as "Darkness" could just be a blanket statement in reference to the element/concept. Light and dark are synonymous with each other in this franchise, can't have one without the other.
True but it's also worth remembering that a being calling itself 'Darkness' speaks to Sora from within Ven's heart in Re Mind, so I think a link between the UX Darkness and Vanitas is probable (though the fact that they don't answer Sora when he asks if it's Vanitas makes me think it could be more complicated than Vanitas being Darkness).
 

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True but it's also worth remembering that a being calling itself 'Darkness' speaks to Sora from within Ven's heart in Re Mind, so I think a link between the UX Darkness and Vanitas is probable (though the fact that they don't answer Sora when he asks if it's Vanitas makes me think it could be more complicated than Vanitas being Darkness).
Alternatively, it could be a matter of many entities going by the name "Darkness". After all, there are many Xehanorts and two Ansems, whose to say we won't experience the wrath of 3 darknesses in the next saga.
 

Chie

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Maybe all of the entities from the darkness side of MoM's war call themselves "Darkness", whether because that's truly what they are (MoM says the war never ended and continues to his present, so are they literally darkness itself?) and/or because that's all they are without their forms.

The Ventus scenario is odd because Vanitas shouldn't be there at this time if I have my understanding right, so that can't be Vanitas even though it is "Darkness". Although that Darkness did turn into a heartless to fight Sora so... uh... stuff.
 

LoneFox

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Normally, darkness wants to take over and conquer the world, right?

What does Vanitas want to do once he is free from Xehanort's control? According to his Character File, he wants to disappear into void. This is pretty much the opposite of taking over and conquering the world, isn't it? Now, who wants darkness to disappear into void? The Master of Masters, of course.

So, MoM created proto-Vanitas from special kind of darkness that wants to disappear into void and put it in Ven's heart. He probably did this right after Ven's birth, because that is how this kind of stories always work, and also because it would explain why Ven is a few years younger than the other union leaders. The others simply were too old already when he came up with the idea, and he didn't want to risk them remembering what he did. The purpose of doing it is to help Xehanort destroy the existing worlds, and then, once Xehanort is dead (perhaps because of a booby-trapped Book of Prophecies that was supposed to come with Ven), Vanitas would disappear into void, hopefully take most of the regular darkness with him, and leave an easy rebuilding job for the Dandelions.
According to him in KHUX, the Master of Masters grew up during a battle between light and darkness in which the darkness took human form (though wasn't human).
This is somewhat incorrect unofficial translation. In the official one he says, "To answer your question, if I had to call them something, 'monsters' would be pretty accurate. But they looked like us." You can watch it here. Look in between the lines, ask the right questions (like "why didn't the other wielders count" and "why does he get annoyed by Luxu's questions"), and you should see who he is talking about. Also notice his symbol (the one on the cover of the Book of Prophecies) tells the same story.

In case you don't get it, here is an additional hint: I believe the black coat is for hiding a sigil.
I want to make the guess that the Unversed symbol was originally the symbol of the side of darkness in this mysterious conflict.
This is possible, but for a different reason. Assume the special kind of darkness is from MoM's own heart, then it makes sense.
From this we can probably guess how it got to the Unversed in BBS - whoever this "Darkness" is is from that side, and he either is or is linked to Vanitas, and thus the monsters Vanitas spawn carry the ancient symbol from that long ago war.
I don't think the Darkness character is connected to this in any way. The reason he calls himself "Darkness" is to make Maleficent (and the audience) to believe that he is helping her. But he then reveals that he was just using her to make it possible for himself to time travel to the future.
 
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Dast

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This is somewhat incorrect unofficial translation. In the official one he says, "To answer your question, if I had to call them something, 'monsters' would be pretty accurate. But they looked like us." You can watch it here.
I think the official translation does still back up what Chie said (thanks for the link), given that Luxu then asks 'So they were human'?, and the MoM replies 'I didn't say that.'
The Ventus scenario is odd because Vanitas shouldn't be there at this time if I have my understanding right, so that can't be Vanitas even though it is "Darkness". Although that Darkness did turn into a heartless to fight Sora so... uh... stuff.
Yeah it's hard to make sense of it all. Btw, the heartless's name, 'Dark Inferno χ' is another thing that makes me think this Darkness could be from UX, maybe originating in Chi.
 

Mexican Sora

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True but it's also worth remembering that a being calling itself 'Darkness' speaks to Sora from within Ven's heart in Re Mind, so I think a link between the UX Darkness and Vanitas is probable (though the fact that they don't answer Sora when he asks if it's Vanitas makes me think it could be more complicated than Vanitas being Darkness).
The funny thing is Vanitas basically tells us that he is Darkness and relentlessly sticks to it until he fades away.
 
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