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The plot hole that ReMind may be digging even deeper



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Eonstar890

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Within the newest trailer, we see the return of the restoration committee (or at the very least three of its members) and they appear to be residing in Merlin's house. One of the big things that didn't really make sense during KH3 was why on earth Merlin would be in Twilight Town leisurely enjoying a cup of tea whilst he is supposed to be in charge of training two of the seven GoL meant to halt the quickly approaching war. This bothers me for two reasons, one being that I wanted to be able to return to Radiant Garden, and two being that it doesn't flow at all with what was pre-established.

Now we get to see the place where Merlin SHOULD have been encountered during KH3 and we are also remeeting characters that would've been around to meet Kairi and Lea when they were undergoing training. I am really hoping that ReMind is going to in someway acknowledge this or try to provide an explanation as to why Merlin is in TT when he is tasked with such an important job. It was already silly enough having him be in TT as an excuse to not need RG be a playable world but still shove the 100 Acre Wood into the game anyways.

My hopes are that either some slight altercations to the main story take place expanding on Kairi and Lea's training (which would help emphasize Kairi's sudden strength being displayed during her playable section that is most definitely not on display when she is a party member for 0.5 seconds in KG) and that this expansion will include Merlin or Radiant Garden in some way or when Riku visits RG specifically to see the Restoration Committee the topic of events that took place in that world will be brought up in way that explains what they were up to whilst Ansem's apprentices regained control of the castle and Kairi and Lea become apprentices under Merlin since ya know.. THERE IN HIS HOUSE. The trailer showed no signs of Cloud, Tifa, or Cid so I am assuming they aren't showing up until proven otherwise, but at the very least please mention that they exist as well to avoid making the same mistake removing FF characters was to begin with. All in all the FF gang's inclusion is going to feel strange if it is included in way that makes it seem like they popped back into existence post Keyblade War. (Since from a production standpoint thats literally what's happening)

Also has Riku ever met any of these characters before? I can't remember a time when he would have.
 

AR829038

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Within the newest trailer, we see the return of the restoration committee (or at the very least three of its members) and they appear to be residing in Merlin's house. One of the big things that didn't really make sense during KH3 was why on earth Merlin would be in Twilight Town leisurely enjoying a cup of tea whilst he is supposed to be in charge of training two of the seven GoL meant to halt the quickly approaching war. This bothers me for two reasons, one being that I wanted to be able to return to Radiant Garden, and two being that it doesn't flow at all with what was pre-established.

Now we get to see the place where Merlin SHOULD have been encountered during KH3 and we are also remeeting characters that would've been around to meet Kairi and Lea when they were undergoing training. I am really hoping that ReMind is going to in someway acknowledge this or try to provide an explanation as to why Merlin is in TT when he is tasked with such an important job. It was already silly enough having him be in TT as an excuse to not need RG be a playable world but still shove the 100 Acre Wood into the game anyways.

My hopes are that either some slight altercations to the main story take place expanding on Kairi and Lea's training (which would help emphasize Kairi's sudden strength being displayed during her playable section that is most definitely not on display when she is a party member for 0.5 seconds in KG) and that this expansion will include Merlin or Radiant Garden in some way or when Riku visits RG specifically to see the Restoration Committee the topic of events that took place in that world will be brought up in way that explains what they were up to whilst Ansem's apprentices regained control of the castle and Kairi and Lea become apprentices under Merlin since ya know.. THERE IN HIS HOUSE. The trailer showed no signs of Cloud, Tifa, or Cid so I am assuming they aren't showing up until proven otherwise, but at the very least please mention that they exist as well to avoid making the same mistake removing FF characters was to begin with. All in all the FF gang's inclusion is going to feel strange if it is included in way that makes it seem like they popped back into existence post Keyblade War. (Since from a production standpoint thats literally what's happening)

Also has Riku ever met any of these characters before? I can't remember a time when he would have.
Um.......the room that the Restoration Committee in is in fact in Radiant Garden. Merlin still lives in RG. He only visited Twilight Town that once.
 

Eonstar890

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Um.......the room that the Restoration Committee in is in fact in Radiant Garden. Merlin still lives in RG. He only visited Twilight Town that once.
Yes that is true! That’s why I hope they acknowledge that the Restoration gang would be around for all the events that took place in RG during KH3 such as the return of the apprentices and the training of Kairi and Lea
 

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Hey, now. Can't a Wizard take a break and have a cuppa? I got the impression that while Merlin set up their training, it wasn't exactly as such that he had to be there watching them all the time. Especially when even Lea and Kairi could afford to just sit down, talk and request Merlin to bring them some ice cream. I would love to see what they were actually doing in their pocket-dimension forest, but yeah.

And you're right, Riku's only semblance of an interaction with the gang is watching them through a window in KH1 when Maleficent was making fun of him for having no friends manipulating him.
 

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I don't think I understand the complaint here. What's wrong with Merlin being in Twilight Town? He was never tied down to RG. In KH1 he has a house in Traverse Town and mentions he loves to travel. If anything he's being consistent with his character in going to Twilight Town, a new environment. As for why he's there he wanted to visit the Bistro. I don't see the harm in that considering Kairi and Lea take ice cream breaks too. Likewise Pooh's book is in a different world each main game too. If it returns for KH4 it'll probably be moved somewhere else.

Cid could easily appear in the same room too with Leon and the gang, and Cloud can be mentioned by Aerith if not shown in a flashback, but a cameo from him would be nice. As far as I'm concerned Tifa is not on the same level as the Restoration Committee as Sora's FF extended family. As to what they've been doing during the Keyblade battle, is it really that important? They were not tied to any of the major events going on in the game, so there was no need to visit them. It's not like they disappeared, they just were not involved in this particular story is all.
 

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Also has Riku ever met any of these characters before? I can't remember a time when he would have.
We know that Riku delivered Kairi and Lea's new outfits to them. Assuming that the training grounds access point is accessible somewhere nearby/in Merlin's house then presumably Riku would have had to meet them while dropping the stuff off I'd imagine. This is a lot of assumptions but it is the only time I can point to where they would have made introductions specifically.

I won't have much issue if they already seem to know each other, however, because from the persepctive of Leon's gang Sora has mentioned Riku more than enough times that if Riku just walked in and was like "I'm Riku. Got something to deliver for Kairi here." they would just be like "ah cool, nice to finally see you. She's over there."

The only issue would be if Sora had ever mentioned Leon or the others to Riku and...why wouldn't he have at some point? Besides, in KH1 there is that one cutscene of Riku jealously glaring into the window of the 3rd district clubhouse when Sora is meeting with the FF gang so he should at least know OF them possibly enough to recognize the faces even if he doesn't know their names that well.

Wouldn't call Riku having a passing familiarity with them as being a plot hole.

As far as the "training" plot hole itself goes... while we know Merlin was giving Kairi and Lea access to the hyperbolic chamber of sorts, and possibly teaching them magic, since time is all...funky in there we have no idea how long he was actively 'teaching' and how much of it was spent with them practicing and honing the skills they were given. It's entirely plausible that Merlin finished up the hands on teaching portion then was like cool...now you two spend the rest of the time hashing out the kinks yourself because there's nothing more my skills can do.

Like...in terms of battle prowress I would NOT be looking to Merlin to be a mentor, really. But teaching basic spells? Sure. My interpretation was always that he gave them the spells (however that actually works in universe is never really explained) then peaced out fairly early. Like, okay, here's a fire spell Kairi. Test it out a few times. Didn't set the room on fire? Cool. Keep practicing that then. Imma go get some tea.

Is it kind of irresponsible of him? Sure...but Merlin was always sort of more whimsical anyway and more about hands-on experience based teaching than anything else (according to his original film personality).

While I agree having him randomly come to TT for tea seemed a bit weird at the time and was obviously like you said, just a way to keep RG out of the way, I wouldn't say it was a massive plot hole.
 

Eonstar890

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Hey, now. Can't a Wizard take a break and have a cuppa? I got the impression that while Merlin set up their training, it wasn't exactly as such that he had to be there watching them all the time. Especially when even Lea and Kairi could afford to just sit down, talk and request Merlin to bring them some ice cream. I would love to see what they were actually doing in their pocket-dimension forest, but yeah.

And you're right, Riku's only semblance of an interaction with the gang is watching them through a window in KH1 when Maleficent was making fun of him for having no friends manipulating him.
While it is true that Lea and Kairi did have leisure time, that was due to the place they were training being "temporally flexible" meaning that had much more time on their hands to work with. Now I am sure there were moments where Kairi and Lea could practice independently, but it would still be pretty odd that they would just be left to their own devices for the majority of their training given how dire the situation was.

To me him being in TT was a bit too leisurely, like he never even mentions the fact that he is in charge of training the other two while talking to SDG. But all of that aside, my main point is how this situation will be handled moving forward. I am just hoping the new ReMind scenario acknowledges this in some way.

I don't think I understand the complaint here. What's wrong with Merlin being in Twilight Town? He was never tied down to RG. In KH1 he has a house in Traverse Town and mentions he loves to travel. If anything he's being consistent with his character in going to Twilight Town, a new environment. As for why he's there he wanted to visit the Bistro. I don't see the harm in that considering Kairi and Lea take ice cream breaks too. Likewise Pooh's book is in a different world each main game too. If it returns for KH4 it'll probably be moved somewhere else.

Cid could easily appear in the same room too with Leon and the gang, and Cloud can be mentioned by Aerith if not shown in a flashback, but a cameo from him would be nice. As far as I'm concerned Tifa is not on the same level as the Restoration Committee as Sora's FF extended family. As to what they've been doing during the Keyblade battle, is it really that important? They were not tied to any of the major events going on in the game, so there was no need to visit them. It's not like they disappeared, they just were not involved in this particular story is all.
You're definitely right about Tifa/Cloud not being all that important especially given the context of the Riku's visit. It has now been confirmed as well that Cid is returning too which is pretty nice. In a sense, Hollow Bastion was the spiritual successor to Traverse Town and RG is the same world as HB so I wouldn't say the book has appeared in a different world every time. What I mean is that for a task as important as training two wielders meant to stop the pending apocalypse, it would make sense for Merlin to stay close by to ensure they are making the progress they need to. Personally, I feel like it would have been more realistic iff we actually saw scenes with Merlin, Lea, and Kairi instead of just Lea and Kairi, but I get why that was done from a story telling point.

I didn't mean for it to be a complaint, but more of a concern for the DLC. The info around DLC says there will be some changes to the story so maybe that will help, but I mainly fear the sudden addition of characters won't flow with how other characters were handled during the main story.

Wouldn't call Riku having a passing familiarity with them as being a plot hole.
Yeah I didn't mean that as being a plot hole just a side question because I was unsure my self.

If what you say about Merlin not being a good mentor for battle, then appointing two apprentices to him seems a bit irresponsible overall. Shouldn't Yen Sid train them directly then? It seems that if all Merlin is good for is creating time chambers then someone else should have been in charge of making sure the two were in tip top shape, but I digress.

I only bring this up because now we are getting more plot driven by FF characters that are literally residing in Merlins abode where this training, (at least partially) took place so I am hoping that this fact is addressed by these characters in some way so as to not feel that they just weren't there when Kairi and Lea were.

But yes if Riku already knows them that would not be a plot hole as logically it is a possibility.
 

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I’m confused. Merlin is a magical time-space hopping wizard. It’s literally his MO in Sword in the Stone. He travels everywhere and only ever settles down in one place for short periods of time.

In KH it is even more played up as he just erects his home wherever he wants, then travels at his leisure. Him being in Twilight Town having a cuppa while he leaves Kairi and Lea to battle it out is the most Merlin thing ever.

He left them in a realm where time does not move like it does in the regular world. Merlin can have tea and pop right back in easily. Also, he’s a time-traveller so he can really just make it seem as though he never left.
 

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I’m confused. Merlin is a magical time-space hopping wizard. It’s literally his MO in Sword in the Stone. He travels everywhere and only ever settles down in one place for short periods of time.

In KH it is even more played up as he just erects his home wherever he wants, then travels at his leisure. Him being in Twilight Town having a cuppa while he leaves Kairi and Lea to battle it out is the most Merlin thing ever.

He left them in a realm where time does not move like it does in the regular world. Merlin can have tea and pop right back in easily. Also, he’s a time-traveller so he can really just make it seem as though he never left.
Right but what I am saying is that this doesn't hold true for the FF characters whose main base of operations is Merlin's house in RG. Therefore, I hope they acknowledge being around for the events that took place involving the training of two brand new keyblade wielders, since it was already strange that they weren't there to begin with in the original release. It would be weird if in ReMind they seem clueless to everything thats been happening thus far since they should have an inkling of the situation already.

I mean it is a bit strange that we didn't get one scene that Merlin shares with Kairi and Lea right? I guess I shouldn't call Merlin being in TT a plot hole as much as Leon and co. not existing post ReMind being one. Now that they are back, I am hoping they are transitioned back in smoothly.

Also the reemergence of AtW's apprentices who occupy the castle with no interference from the Restoration Committee.. I definitely think Leon and them would care about something like that to some extent...
 

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Right but surely that dimension was accessed via RG. As someone pointed out earlier Riku delivers their new clothes per Yen Sid’s request when he and Mickey are heading there. So at some point Kairi and Lea would have been in RG. while most details surrounding this pocket dimension are pretty vague that one distinction is definitely made.
 

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I didn't think that was the implication of that at all and I think you and whoever else said it were reading too much into that. I think that it was literally Yen Sid saying the equivalent of "You're going to the bank, pick up some milk from the market on your way home."

Riku and Mickey were already heading out, so they could stop by wherever Lea and Kairi were. That doesn't mean that pocket dimension was in or accessible from Radiant Garden. It was just easy for those two to go because they were already leaving.
 
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Honestly, out of all the plot holes in the series, I think this is probably the bottom of the barrel. I never questioned why Merlin was in TT. I don't even think this is a plot hole now that I think about it. He took a coffee/tea break at a reputable restaurant and decided to meet with the trio to relay some essential information at the same time.
 
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Eonstar890

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I’m really more focused on the plot holes that may be presented by the inclusion of FF characters this late into the game rather than Merlin.

My annoyances with Merlin are more subjective because of how much I enjoy RG especially seeing it grow over the course of the series. So seeing the use of his now just kinda ticks me because I wish we could’ve actually just gone there main game.
 
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I’m really more focused on the plot holes that may be presented by the inclusion of FF characters this late into the game rather than Merlin.

My annoyances with Merlin are more subjective because of how much I enjoy RG especially seeing it grow over the course of the series. So seeing the use of his now just kinda ticks me because I wish we could’ve actually just gone there main game.
Okay, I don't mean to sound like an a**, but can't you just enjoy the DLC for what it is? Nomura thought he could get away with not having FF characters in the game and not have fans annoyed. He was obviously wrong, but it seems like he's now trying to make up for it. I just find it odd that you use this, of all things, to bring up plot holes.
 
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Eonstar890

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Okay, I don't mean to sound like an a**, but can't you just enjoy the DLC for what it is? Nomura thought he could get away with not having FF characters in the game and not have fans annoyed. He was obviously wrong and it seems like he's now trying to make up for it. I just find it odd that you use this, of all things, to bring up plot holes.
Lol I am actually super excited for the DLC and I think everything shown thus far looks really amazing. I’m glad that they are including FF characters back into it I’m just voicing concerns about how that is done. I didn’t realize what I said sounded like idk pissed or upset? That’s not what I meant and I definitely don’t want to dampen anyone else’s excitement. Idk I just wanted to discuss this detail and see what others thought but I guess I shouldn’t have said anything lol
 
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Lol I am actually super excited for the DLC and I think everything shown thus far looks really amazing. I’m glad that they are including FF characters back into it I’m just voicing concerns about how that is done. I didn’t realize what I said sounded like idk pissed or upset? That’s not what I meant and I definitely don’t want to dampen anyone else’s excitement. Idk I just wanted to discuss this detail and see what others thought but I guess I shouldn’t have said anything lol
Oh I understand. My main point was to not let this dampen your excitement. I guess I feel that KH, as a series, has so many plot holes at this point that this one can be seen as very minor by comparison. I didn't mean to make it seem like your post was invalid and I apologize if that's how I came across. KH is far from a perfect series from a writing perspective, but it seems like Nomura is listening to feedback and I appreciate that. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself (we'll know for sure in little over a month), but better now than never I feel.
 
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Eonstar890

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Oh I understand. My main point was to not let this dampen your excitement. I guess I feel that KH, as a series, has so many plot holes at this point that this one can be seen as very minor by comparison. I didn't mean to make it seem like your post was invalid and I apologize if that's how I came across. KH is far from a perfect series from a writing perspective, but it seems like Nomura is listening to feedback and I appreciate that. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself (we'll know for sure in little over a month), but better now than never I feel.
Yeah I was amazed by the trailer so much my first reaction was “wow... they actually listened!!”
I was always going to get ReMind no matter what, but now I’m really excited to see what they do story wise. I know most people might not be but I’m excited for the whole time travel rewrite thing especially since it will help clarify how Sora saved Kairi and also give other characters more of a chance to shine like Roxas, Xion, Aqua, etc.

So yeah I’m really happy with what the team is showing us, but I can’t say I’m not a teeny bit scarred after the hype I felt from trailers for the original release getting me over excited. That’s why I’m trying to not assume anything optimisticly if that makes sense lol
 
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