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microsoft deny findings



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evil_kenshin

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this is the news story super eclipse didn't post (since it put microsoft in negative light) despite him posting the other microsoft news stories of the day

Experts investigate 360's heat problems - Xbox 360 News - Australia's PAL Gaming Network

Experts investigate 360's heat problems
Microsoft disagrees with findings.
Much to Microsoft's displeasure, 360 failure rates seem to be a very hot topic at the moment, especially with Microsoft having scorched a hole in their pocket by extending the 360 warranty. A recent quite detailed investigative report from Nikkei Electronics has only increased the heat on Microsoft, not only suggesting that the thermal design of the console may be inappropriate, but providing the actual numbers to back that statement up.

Nikkei Electronics employed the services of a thermal design expert to test two consoles, one purchased in 2005 and one repaired in 2007. The monitored temperature gap between emitted air and room temperature was 22°C, a level believed quite high by the expert. Apparently, a 10°C gap is more typical in consumer production devices.

On opening the 360, the expert also noted that the heatsink on the graphics LSI was smaller than typically expected. Testing showed that it would easily heat up to 80°C, and highly likely exceed 100°C in typical summer conditions of 35°C. Interestingly, the 360 repaired in 2007 had exactly the same heatsink.

Might Microsoft be sweating in the face of this news? Apparently not - speaking to Computer and Videogames, Microsoft has disagreed with the findings of the report, stating, "There is no single root cause or systemic issue with any of the Xbox 360 consoles."

Microsoft also added that, "With such a complex consumer electronic product that contains more than 1700 different components and 500 million transistors, there are obviously many things that can malfunction at any given time."

And finally, it wouldn't be Microsoft statement about Xbox 360 reliability problems without the now boilerplate response, "The vast majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles continue to have a terrific experience."

While PALGN appreciates the complexity of the issue, Microsoft increasingly appears to be painting themselves into a corner. On one hand, the problems are apparently not due to a single systemic fault, something everyone can appreciate Microsoft wanting to avoid admitting. However, the alternative point of view on Microsoft's statements is that the system has been designed with so many different flaws, there are many points of failure that are causing a total system failure in the field. It's important to note that people are experiencing catastrophic systems failures, not simple occasional glitches.

Between a single systemic issue and a raft of system-destroying issues, most manufacturers would prefer to deal with the single issue, as it represents a simple, manageable fix. To admit to the second is to admit to extremely poor design and quality control issues, issues that are almost impossible to fix without a total redesign from scratch. Under this context, Microsoft's statements are extremely curious, as they do little to encourage faith in the system or provide existing users with hope that their 360 will live beyond the warranty period.


so either microsoft have made their 360 sound worse or making excuses but this really needs fixing
 

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I find this news strange. people complain about 360s failing on them, but i've had no troubles, i know few people who do have problems.

from these reports, you'd think every xbox 360 would catch on fire the moment you turned it on. I really do think that most people who own an xbox 360 still don't have any problems and continue playing it.
 

Hero_of_Fate

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The failure rate of first gen 360s was an alarming 33%. But most 360s appear to work fine now. I don't know about other people, but my 360 doesn't get hot. It's blasting the fans all the time.
 

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evil_kenshin said:
this is the news story super eclipse didn't post (since it put microsoft in negative light) despite him posting the other microsoft news stories of the day
Funny, I been in game all day.. I seen that other post on another forum I go, thats why I posted it..

But thanks for bashing me for something I clearly didn't know anything about, Like I said I was in a MMO all damn day but few hours where I took a break and looked up a quest or two online.

So, this the first time I heard about this topic. Also I been really nice. I haven't posted anything bad about Sony like I could and use too. Yet, I still get bashed by Sony fanbots.

But oh well. Anyway I'm off, I just wanted to check to see if a friend was on msn and she isn't.. So back to game I go.
 

evil_kenshin

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Funny, I been in game all day.. I seen that other post on another forum I go, thats why I posted it..

But thanks for bashing me for something I clearly didn't know anything about, Like I said I was in a MMO all damn day but few hours where I took a break and looked up a quest or two online.

So, this the first time I heard about this topic. Also I been really nice. I haven't posted anything bad about Sony like I could and use too. Yet, I still get bashed by Sony fanbots.

But oh well. Anyway I'm off, I just wanted to check to see if a friend was on msn and she isn't.. So back to game I go.

meh you have included my name in several posts saying " fanboys like evil_kenshin" among other variations so im just returning the favour .
but then atleast im willing to admit im a sony fanboy but you refuse to admit that your a microsoft fanboy
but discussing this is not the point of this topic
 

SuperEclipse

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meh you have included my name in several posts saying " fanboys like evil_kenshin" among other variations so im just returning the favour .
but then atleast im willing to admit im a sony fanboy but you refuse to admit that your a microsoft fanboy
but discussing this is not the point of this topic

Yea. keyword there is like. Now if you said, 360 fanboys like SuperEclipse who said this game will never go the PS3 that would be different then saying this, Kinda hard to post a topic you now nothing about..

No, I'm not a Microsoft fanboy.. I hate Microsoft pretty much in everything they do. I just think that got gaming part right, sue me. I like Sony I just think they ___ed up this gen..

So how I can be a Microsoft fanboy when there is only one or two things I like about them?
 

evil_kenshin

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well then specifically a 360 fanboy if you like the term better

and know nothing about? so you assume i have not played extensively a 360? you assume to much
again i repeat this discussion is not the point of the topic
 

Black_Star

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Holy shit, you two need to grow up. Anyway, this red ring bs needs to stop before I buy a 360.
 

evil_kenshin

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agreed on both accounts lol ( yeah i know im one of 'those two') but yeah enough is enough anyway the problem with the 360's won't really get fixed until microsoft fess up and fix the problem

currently their refusing to admit to it and think just increasing the warranty will solve their problem
 

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agreed on both accounts lol ( yeah i know im one of 'those two') but yeah enough is enough anyway the problem with the 360's won't really get fixed until microsoft fess up and fix the problem

currently their refusing to admit to it and think just increasing the warranty will solve their problem


what i really want to know is what are the build dates of the failing xbox 360s. I only got mine this past christmas, and so far the only times i had failures was when i A). did not put my hard drive all the way back on after removing it, or B). the game had only just come out, and within days, an downloadable update fixed the problem (which means there was a glitch in the game).

I really think i can see what they aren't saying there is a problem, because maybe there isn't a problem anymore. Only an idiot would continue to sell a machine that was failing. Microsoft would definitely be working hard to fix the bugs on the console, they aren't going to lie to themselves and dig themselves in a deeper pit. I'm positive anything you buy now will probably work hassle free (unless its the off chance that your unit has been sitting there since 2005).

so if you are hesitating, don't. go buy the premium* or the new Halo 3 xbox 360. with the Halo 3 ones, you know they are brand new from the factory, and thus lack the crappy parts.

(*only fool buys the core, unless they have a plan to save for a hard drive later, which is what i thought the point of the core was... and the elite is extra money for pretty much little upgrades as far as gaming is concerned, its more of a "media machine")
 

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Oh, I guess Microsoft's problems are starting to um...heat up. What I dont get is why they dont just increase the size of the heatsink (hardly an effort unless its overcompressed in a 360). More vents, and develope a better pattern to enhance the airflow and overall circulation. God, I hope they dont increase the fan speed (the neigbors will think we've got a V8 engine in the house).
 

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because maybe the heat sink isn't the problem. what do we know about how a 360 works? some one says the heat sink is smaller then expected.... so? this means nothing. they obviously would have put a heat sink in there that would be able to withstand normal operations (i mean, use your brains). i'm guessing that something else is causing it to emit much more heat then expected. that would be the real problem.
 

Black_Star

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because maybe the heat sink isn't the problem. what do we know about how a 360 works? some one says the heat sink is smaller then expected.... so? this means nothing. they obviously would have put a heat sink in there that would be able to withstand normal operations (i mean, use your brains). i'm guessing that something else is causing it to emit much more heat then expected. that would be the real problem.
Some guy took apart a 360 to find the cause of the RROD. He said the current heatsink isn't powerful enough to keep the temperature down. That's why you hear reports of people having new heatsinks in their 360s after sending them to Microsoft. Oh and Microsoft admited all 11.6 million 360s have the defect that could potentially cause them to have the RROD problem. This is the reason I'm holding off on a 360. Once I get confirmation M$ fixed the problem and tells which model numbers have the problem, I'll most likely pick one up.
 

Koji

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because maybe the heat sink isn't the problem. what do we know about how a 360 works? some one says the heat sink is smaller then expected.... so? this means nothing. they obviously would have put a heat sink in there that would be able to withstand normal operations (i mean, use your brains). i'm guessing that something else is causing it to emit much more heat then expected. that would be the real problem.

Um, hello, MS made the 360 design. If they used their head, they should have been able to provide a heat sink that works. Someone says the heatsink is smaller than expected...so that means that the heatsink is smaller than expected. If you think its just fine, go tell that to the 33% of unsatisfied customers.
 
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