Spoilers ► I Need Some things Cleared Up~

[Nutari]

I am a KH veteran, and I have officially gotten so lost, I can't even figure this stuff out. For anybody who didn't play KH2, BBS, or DDD don't look at any of the answers, because I'm sure those are the games where I could find/infer these things.

I haven't played DDD so I have little to no clue as to what they answer in it. But here are my questions:

-Roxas is more or less a cross of Sora and Ven, or just Ven? I have been trying to figure this out for so long. Roxas looks like Ven but is technically Sora's nobody?

-Is it possible to have an endless cycle of becoming a nobody? Say, MX cannot finish his plan to forge the X-blade, so he just turns himself into a nobody once more to buy time. (I am aware he isn't Terranort and this point in time, so he wouldn't be Xemnas/Ansem SoD again) But is that possible? He could essentially create a whole different Org. if he wanted.

-What happens with all the side enemies? Unversed and Dream Eaters alike. I think they explained that the Unversed came from Vanitas, but if there were another like him, the Unversed could run amok again, right? And same for the dream eaters, as long as somebody is in the RoS they could technically exit the RoS right? Since Riku was able to use them in the real world for some time.

 

[Sorarocks93]

-Roxas is more or less a cross of Sora and Ven, or just Ven? I have been trying to figure this out for so long. Roxas looks like Ven but is technically Sora's nobody?

Roxas is Sora's Nobody. He simply looks like Ven because Ven's heart was inside Sora when Roxas was created.

-Is it possible to have an endless cycle of becoming a nobody? Say, MX cannot finish his plan to forge the X-blade, so he just turns himself into a nobody once more to buy time. (I am aware he isn't Terranort and this point in time, so he wouldn't be Xemnas/Ansem SoD again) But is that possible? He could essentially create a whole different Org. if he wanted.

He can do that if he looses his heart to the Darkness. He will create another Heartless and another Nobody. But he wouldn't need to since

Spoiler Show

he can always bring members back from the past

-What happens with all the side enemies? Unversed and Dream Eaters alike. I think they explained that the Unversed came from Vanitas, but if there were another like him, the Unversed could run amok again, right? And same for the dream eaters, as long as somebody is in the RoS they could technically exit the RoS right? Since Riku was able to use them in the real world for some time.

I don't really remember that...

 

[DivineRose269]

Well i haven't played DDD either (haven't played BBS either actually) but i think it's pretty much like this:

-At the end of BBS Vens heart goes inside of Sora, then in KH1 when Sora stabs himself with the Keyblade Of Peoples Hearts
Vens is one of the hearts getting released. When Roxas is created he's created with Vens heart and appearence. Then at the end of KH2
when Roxas goes back to Sora, Vens heart goes back inside of Sora. So Roxas is basically Soras nobody but with Vens heart.

-Well he probably could if he wanted but I don't see why he would actually do it. And with plot holes in... well, plots, like in Harry Potter with those time turners, writer(s) don't ever think about how easy it gets for people to get what they want when they have access to time-magic, or they just didn't include it to make the story better. I mean MX could easily get all his vessels if he took actual advantage of his timechanging abilities.

-It's like you're saying, Unversed came from Vanitas (or technically the darkness from Vens heart) and when Vanitas was destroyed the Unversed were also destroyed. But with MX's time-thing he can probably bring 'em back if he wants (and he probably does). Dream Eaters aside, they are only lurking around in the RoS. But if some part of KH3 takes place in the RoS for some reason, they'll be there.

 

[Sorarocks93]

Well i haven't played DDD either (haven't played BBS either actually) but i think it's pretty much like this:

-At the end of BBS Vens heart goes inside of Sora, then in KH1 when Sora stabs himself with the Keyblade Of Peoples Hearts
Vens is one of the hearts getting released. When Roxas is created he's created with Vens heart and appearence. Then at the end of KH2
when Roxas goes back to Sora, Vens heart goes back inside of Sora. So Roxas is basically Soras nobody but with Vens heart.

Actually Roxas goes with Sora when his "vacation" was over at the beginning of KH2. I don't think Ven's heart ever left Sora. Roxas had his own heart.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I am a KH veteran, and I have officially gotten so lost, I can't even figure this stuff out. For anybody who didn't play KH2, BBS, or DDD don't look at any of the answers, because I'm sure those are the games where I could find/infer these things.

I haven't played DDD so I have little to no clue as to what they answer in it. But here are my questions:

-Roxas is more or less a cross of Sora and Ven, or just Ven? I have been trying to figure this out for so long. Roxas looks like Ven but is technically Sora's nobody?

-Is it possible to have an endless cycle of becoming a nobody? Say, MX cannot finish his plan to forge the X-blade, so he just turns himself into a nobody once more to buy time. (I am aware he isn't Terranort and this point in time, so he wouldn't be Xemnas/Ansem SoD again) But is that possible? He could essentially create a whole different Org. if he wanted.

-What happens with all the side enemies? Unversed and Dream Eaters alike. I think they explained that the Unversed came from Vanitas, but if there were another like him, the Unversed could run amok again, right? And same for the dream eaters, as long as somebody is in the RoS they could technically exit the RoS right? Since Riku was able to use them in the real world for some time.

Ahem *clears throat*. Let's go about these plot points in order:

1. What you say is partially correct. Roxas is indeed a sort of hybrid-being/cross of Sora and Ventus who eventually developed his own consciousness and personality. His appearance is inherited from Ventus, as is his initial capacity of feeling true emotions because he carried Ventus' injured, sleeping heart which was left inside Sora's original body. Roxas' body and soul however were originally Sora's, that's why he's still foremost Sora's Nobody despite having Ventus' appearance.
The next part is a heavy DDD-Spoiler:
It is finally confirmed in this game what has been hinted before already in KH2, Days and Coded that literally anything can give birth to a heart. Nobodies start out without a heart, but in the right circumstances can grow a new heart. Roxas is confirmed to have developed an own heart over the course of his short life in DDD.

2. It is possible to lose your heart again, yes, and maybe also spawning another Nobody, but the circumstances may not always be the same and several revelations in DDD make this approach on one hand more risky and also plainly unneccessary.

3. The Unversed are tied to Vanitas' existence, meaning that he must exist as a physical entity in the universe in order to spawn them. According to Nomura in the DDD Ultimania however, Vanitas currently has no physical form, ergo meaning that there are no Unversed.
If Vanitas is somehow restored to a physical form the prospect of his negative feelings being able to be shaped into monsters again is however a given.
The explanation as why Riku still has Dream Eater powers in the last part of DDD is given as because Sora is still asleep and Riku practically became Sora's personal protector-Dream Eater. It is currently not known if Dream Eaters can exit the Realm of Sleep in a more general manner. After all, the Dream Eaters are in essence the equivalent to Heartless in the Sleeping Worlds. So if Dream Eaters would be able to cross into the physical world they would surely be met with either opposition by the Heartless or ally with them (at least the Nightmares).

Actually Roxas goes with Sora when his "vacation" was over at the beginning of KH2. I don't think Ven's heart ever left Sora. Roxas had his own heart.

How would Ven's heart survive being a Heartless? It was pretty much confirmed by the BBS Ultimania that Roxas carried Ven's heart because the heart shapes how the body looks like. Sora's body (which was inhabited by Roxas) was changed to look like Ventus because it was the only heart left inside it.
Dude, mark that last part with spoiler tags, that's a reveal in DDD!!!
As for that:
Roxas didn't start out with his own heart. Nobodies have no hearts in the beginning. At some point he gave birth to a heart--bud and that got nutured to eventually develop into his own heart.

 

[Sorarocks93]

How would Ven's heart survive being a Heartless? It was pretty much confirmed by the BBS Ultimania that Roxas carried Ven's heart because the heart shapes how the body looks like. Sora's body (which was inhabited by Roxas) was changed to look like Ventus because it was the only heart left inside it.

Hmm. Then I guess Ven's heart went back to Sora when Roxas found him sleeping. How else would he weild 2 keyblades?

Roxas didn't start out with his own heart. Nobodies have no hearts in the beginning. At some point he gave birth to a heart--bud and that got nutured to eventually develop into his own heart.

Yeah I know. Guess I should have said he didn't have one at the beginning though.

One thing I don't get though is who is the mysterious voice that talks to Sora in KH1? I assumed it was Ventus. But if it's true that Ventus's heart left Sora after he sacrificed himself then who was talking to him at the "Final Rest"?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

The mysterious voice in KH1 is Mickey.

 

[Sorarocks93]

The mysterious voice in KH1 is Mickey.

For real? Where does it say that?

 

[DivineRose269]

They should have voiced that, would have been really mysterious...

 

[Sign]

For real? Where does it say that?

KH1 Ultimania.

They should have voiced that, would have been really mysterious...

Voicing that would have been an obvious giveaway and most certainly would no longer be mysterious xD

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Hmm. Then I guess Ven's heart went back to Sora when Roxas found him sleeping. How else would he weild 2 keyblades?

Roxas didn't start out with his own heart. Nobodies have no hearts in the beginning. At some point he gave birth to a heart--bud and that got nutured to eventually develop into his own heart.

Yeah I know. Guess I should have said he didn't have one at the beginning though.

One thing I don't get though is who is the mysterious voice that talks to Sora in KH1? I assumed it was Ventus. But if it's true that Ventus's heart left Sora after he sacrificed himself then who was talking to him at the "Final Rest"?

Yes, exactly. You need two hearts in order to be able to wield two Keyblades at the same time and of course Roxas brought Ven's heart back with him when they merged.

Yep, that is an important point since Roxas was able, despite being the youngest of the human-shaped Nobodies, to grow a heart way faster than anyone else (except maybe Naminé, but she's a special case too).

It's Mickey, the way that voice speaks is way too high for Ventus in terms of language and word choice. Furthermore, a sleeping and injured heart has surely other things to consider than talking some mysterious stuff to a dreaming boy just awakening his wielding abilities.

KH1 Ultimania.

Voicing that would have been an obvious giveaway and most certainly would no longer be mysterious xD

Correct. The voice being Mickey had been confirmed by quite some time.

Yep, although it is pretty obvious that the voice in KH1 cannot be Ventus. Ven doesn't talk like this at all. The form of speech used there is way higher and "polished" than anything we know of Ventus.
I remember there were many theories about it either being Mickey, Kingdom Hearts itself, Ansem SOD or even Ansem the Wise, lol.
Certainly better candidates not only in terms of speech but also in terms of knowledge, since the voice in Sora's awakening talks about pretty sophisticated stuff.

 

[Gexus]

They should have voiced that, would have been really mysterious...

Haha, probably as mysterious as Mickey wearing the Organization coat.

 

[Nutari]

Ahem *clears throat*. Let's go about these plot points in order:

1. What you say is partially correct. Roxas is indeed a sort of hybrid-being/cross of Sora and Ventus who eventually developed his own consciousness and personality. His appearance is inherited from Ventus, as is his initial capacity of feeling true emotions because he carried Ventus' injured, sleeping heart which was left inside Sora's original body. Roxas' body and soul however were originally Sora's, that's why he's still foremost Sora's Nobody despite having Ventus' appearance.
The next part is a heavy DDD-Spoiler:
It is finally confirmed in this game what has been hinted before already in KH2, Days and Coded that literally anything can give birth to a heart. Nobodies start out without a heart, but in the right circumstances can grow a new heart. Roxas is confirmed to have developed an own heart over the course of his short life in DDD.

2. It is possible to lose your heart again, yes, and maybe also spawning another Nobody, but the circumstances may not always be the same and several revelations in DDD make this approach on one hand more risky and also plainly unneccessary.

3. The Unversed are tied to Vanitas' existence, meaning that he must exist as a physical entity in the universe in order to spawn them. According to Nomura in the DDD Ultimania however, Vanitas currently has no physical form, ergo meaning that there are no Unversed.
If Vanitas is somehow restored to a physical form the prospect of his negative feelings being able to be shaped into monsters again is however a given.
The explanation as why Riku still has Dream Eater powers in the last part of DDD is given as because Sora is still asleep and Riku practically became Sora's personal protector-Dream Eater. It is currently not known if Dream Eaters can exit the Realm of Sleep in a more general manner. After all, the Dream Eaters are in essence the equivalent to Heartless in the Sleeping Worlds. So if Dream Eaters would be able to cross into the physical world they would surely be met with either opposition by the Heartless or ally with them (at least the Nightmares).




How would Ven's heart survive being a Heartless? It was pretty much confirmed by the BBS Ultimania that Roxas carried Ven's heart because the heart shapes how the body looks like. Sora's body (which was inhabited by Roxas) was changed to look like Ventus because it was the only heart left inside it.
Dude, mark that last part with spoiler tags, that's a reveal in DDD!!!
As for that:
Roxas didn't start out with his own heart. Nobodies have no hearts in the beginning. At some point he gave birth to a heart--bud and that got nutured to eventually develop into his own heart.

Thanks for that! It was a big help. SO~

Do you think it were possible Axel was beginning to gain a heart as well?

Plus, it kind of made me mad that everybody was always like "THEY CAN'T HAVE HEARTS, HURRDURR!" I was right, and they weren't

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Thanks for that! It was a big help. SO~

Do you think it were possible Axel was beginning to gain a heart as well?

Plus, it kind of made me mad that everybody was always like "THEY CAN'T HAVE HEARTS, HURRDURR!" I was right, and they weren't

No issue.


According to Dream Drop Distance, Axel was one who had the beginnings of a heart, yes.
In the game it is confirmed again: If a living being is capable of crying, ithas a heart.
However, since Axel and Lea have really the same consciousness (meaning they're really the same person) the new "Axel"-heart united with Lea's original heart into one once he gets revived, resulting in Lea having all memories of Axel as if they are his own.
The same is true for every "normal" human shaped Nobody who managed to grow a heart.
Xemnas, Xion, Naminé and Roxas are special cases and therefore don't fit in this category.


Heh, you're not the only one. I was also at least in Roxas' and Naminé's case convinced since KH2 that they are their own people.
As for being mad, lol, Sora was also pretty mad when he found out.
I know it's a massive spoiler, but if you don't mind, here is the scene in question:

Spoiler Show

[video=youtube;Net9cQQ-Vm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Net9cQQ-Vm0[/video]

There are also some more videos regarding that issue, two of them very heartwrenching when Sora gets to feel the pain of those connected to him and another one where Ansem the Wise practically confirms what Xemnas said and reveals some more interesting bits, but I didn't want to overdo it with spoilers.

 

[Nutari]

No issue.


According to Dream Drop Distance, Axel was one who had the beginnings of a heart, yes.
In the game it is confirmed again: If a living being is capable of crying, ithas a heart.
However, since Axel and Lea have really the same consciousness (meaning they're really the same person) the new "Axel"-heart united with Lea's original heart into one once he gets revived, resulting in Lea having all memories of Axel as if they are his own.
The same is true for every "normal" human shaped Nobody who managed to grow a heart.
Xemnas, Xion, Naminé and Roxas are special cases and therefore don't fit in this category.


Heh, you're not the only one. I was also at least in Roxas' and Naminé's case convinced since KH2 that they are their own people.
As for being mad, lol, Sora was also pretty mad when he found out.
I know it's a massive spoiler, but if you don't mind, here is the scene in question:

Spoiler Show

[video=youtube;Net9cQQ-Vm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Net9cQQ-Vm0[/video]

There are also some more videos regarding that issue, two of them very heartwrenching when Sora gets to feel the pain of those connected to him and another one where Ansem the Wise practically confirms what Xemnas said and reveals some more interesting bits, but I didn't want to overdo it with spoilers.

I really need a 3DS now. FUUUUU----

I can honestly say, I really appreciate KH's sense of complexity. It is constantly considered just another JRPG, but it is actually quite deep story wise, and I love how dark it is becoming!

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I really need a 3DS now. FUUUUU----

I can honestly say, I really appreciate KH's sense of complexity. It is constantly considered just another JRPG, but it is actually quite deep story wise, and I love how dark it is becoming!

Hehehe, maybe you can trade in your old DS if you have one. After all, unlike the Vita, the 3DS is backwards compatible.

It's funny how one faction of fans appreciate the complexity while others groan and dismiss it as needlessly convoluted. Although I have to say that DDD introduced one plot point I could have gone without myself, lol.

KH has already a pretty dark setting right now considering how many characters are suffering in a fate worse than death currently, waiting for Sora to help them and a villain who wants to control every living being and destroy the universe by recreating a devastating war.

 

[Nutari]

Hehehe, maybe you can trade in your old DS if you have one. After all, unlike the Vita, the 3DS is backwards compatible.

It's funny how one faction of fans appreciate the complexity while others groan and dismiss it as needlessly convoluted. Although I have to say that DDD introduced one plot point I could have gone without myself, lol.

KH has already a pretty dark setting right now considering how many characters are suffering in a fate worse than death currently, waiting for Sora to help them and a villain who wants to control every living being and destroy the universe by recreating a devastating war.

Actually the vita is backwards compatible. You just need a PSP, PS3, and a Vita.

lol

Meh, I'll prolly get one for christmas and trade in my DS.

Which plot point would that be?

Yeah no kidding.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Actually the vita is backwards compatible. You just need a PSP, PS3, and a Vita.

lol

Meh, I'll prolly get one for christmas and trade in my DS.

Which plot point would that be?

Yeah no kidding.

Hah? Last time I checked, the Vita cannot play UMDs, and all my PSP games are physical copies. I do not think highly of having games only in online form.
And I surely won't pay for the same game twice just to be able to get it for the Vita from PSN (leaving aside that Birth By Sleep cannot even bought via PSN).

Sounds like a plan.

Xehanort's time travel jibba jabba somewhat needlessly complicates things. Although Young Xehanort is a really good antagonist (Ben Diskin's voice also adds much to that).

What happens in DDD is truly no wonder when one considers all the pain that was caused. <__<
Xemnas, you bastard...;P

 

[Nutari]

Well you can transfer the UMD data through the PS3 to the vita or something like that.