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How many worlds were lost to the heartless in KH 1? (Spoilers for various games)



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Soldier

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Hello,

One of the biggest things in the KH series was the initial threat of the heartless in KH 1 and their decimation of most Disney worlds. While we don't know the exact number of worlds because there is no cutoff point (recent disney movies that were released after the first game like Lilo and Stitch or chicken little for example) and presumably there won't be a shortage of Disney movies for another century or two. This is even referenced at the end of KH, where Kairi watches as the stars (which represent worlds in KH lore) begin to pop back into their place among the lanes between. The true number of these stars is incalculable (or is it?) due to the speed and differing angles employed in the scene. But we do have a decent idea of the worlds that likely would be present at the time KH was released and some canon explanations from KH 3D, so let's go with that.
Starting with the first game in the series would be a good launchpad for things to come, So let's dissect this.
_Destiny Islands is first, because it's at the beginning of the game and we see it happen, shortly after this and between Sora locking Deep Jungle, the Dwarf Woodlands falls.
-We can also count the 3 other princess worlds that weren't seen in KH 1 (Beast's castle, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion) because we see their worlds later in the series
-Prankster's paradise, symphony of Sorcery, the grid, Country of the musketeers and La cite des cloches are either stated to be lost by yen sid in dream drop distance or implied due to us seeing Pinocchio and co. in monstro.
-Summon gems also provide us with The pride lands and the land of the dragons. Even though we never see their worlds (and probably won't because of other movies taking up precious world slots) Dumbo and Bambi's worlds are also lost.
-Although it isn't really addressed in KH canon, there has to be a sword in the stone world as that would be where Merlin originated from, datamining in bbs revealed that a room was made for the world in early development, but was shelved because it's easier to put the displaced wizard in Radiant Garden and call it a day.

that's 15 based on the first game and dream drop distance. there are obviously more, but if i listed them all there would be no thread would there?
 

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Hello,

One of the biggest things in the KH series was the initial threat of the heartless in KH 1 and their decimation of most Disney worlds. While we don't know the exact number of worlds because there is no cutoff point (recent disney movies that were released after the first game like Lilo and Stitch or chicken little for example) and presumably there won't be a shortage of Disney movies for another century or two. This is even referenced at the end of KH, where Kairi watches as the stars (which represent worlds in KH lore) begin to pop back into their place among the lanes between. The true number of these stars is incalculable (or is it?) due to the speed and differing angles employed in the scene. But we do have a decent idea of the worlds that likely would be present at the time KH was released and some canon explanations from KH 3D, so let's go with that.
Starting with the first game in the series would be a good launchpad for things to come, So let's dissect this.
_Destiny Islands is first, because it's at the beginning of the game and we see it happen, shortly after this and between Sora locking Deep Jungle, the Dwarf Woodlands falls.
-We can also count the 3 other princess worlds that weren't seen in KH 1 (Beast's castle, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion) because we see their worlds later in the series
-Prankster's paradise, symphony of Sorcery, the grid, Country of the musketeers and La cite des cloches are either stated to be lost by yen sid in dream drop distance or implied due to us seeing Pinocchio and co. in monstro.
-Summon gems also provide us with The pride lands and the land of the dragons. Even though we never see their worlds (and probably won't because of other movies taking up precious world slots) Dumbo and Bambi's worlds are also lost.
-Although it isn't really addressed in KH canon, there has to be a sword in the stone world as that would be where Merlin originated from, datamining in bbs revealed that a room was made for the world in early development, but was shelved because it's easier to put the displaced wizard in Radiant Garden and call it a day.

that's 15 based on the first game and dream drop distance. there are obviously more, but if i listed them all there would be no thread would there?
I assumed almost every world was lost at the point of KH1.

But how do you know Dwarf Woodlands falls specifically between Destiny Islands and Deep Jungle?
 

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I assumed almost every world was lost at the point of KH1.

But how do you know Dwarf Woodlands falls specifically between Destiny Islands and Deep Jungle?
I assume they're basing that on the cutscene at the end of Deep Jungle where Maleficent reveals a recently captured Princess. It's Alice if you have beaten Wonderland already but Snow White if not.
 

Face My Fears

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I assume they're basing that on the cutscene at the end of Deep Jungle where Maleficent reveals a recently captured Princess. It's Alice if you have beaten Wonderland already but Snow White if not.
WOW. I know that scene, but I didn't even think of it that way. I assumed Dwarf Woodlands was taken BEFORE Destiny Islands, around the time that Enchanted Dominion and Castle of Dreams fell to darkness (which I assume is around the same time).
 

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-Although it isn't really addressed in KH canon, there has to be a sword in the stone world as that would be where Merlin originated from, datamining in bbs revealed that a room was made for the world in early development, but was shelved because it's easier to put the displaced wizard in Radiant Garden and call it a day.
I wouldn't be sure that Merlin's original world fell to darkness. I assumed that Merlin was able to travel to other worlds using his magic anyway, like he seems to in KH3. And as you said he was in Radiant Garden already in BBS.
 

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WOW. I know that scene, but I didn't even think of it that way. I assumed Dwarf Woodlands was taken BEFORE Destiny Islands, around the time that Enchanted Dominion and Castle of Dreams fell to darkness (which I assume is around the same time).
It's not exactly canon, but it's implied. We never know which princess Maleficent abducted first or last prior to the events of KH 1, so it's left up to interpretation. My head canon is that Aurora was first (obviously) then Cinderella, then Snow white after Deep Jungle is completed, Alice, Jasmine and then Belle. Dwarf woodlands falling would be a sort of "Sora wasn't fast enough" situation" and it fell because SDG didn't reach it in time (at least if we're trying to keep things canon and ignore what could/couldnt be used in KH 1). Beast's castle would have to be sometime after Neverland because Maleficent first hears the beast's roar before Sora Donald and Goofy arrive there, and she says it in a way that implies he JUST arrived there after his world fell. So think of it what you will, I think it's canon and shows how fast Maleficent is abducting these ladies, other people think its just a separate timeline thing.
 

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Does Dwarf Woodlands falling that late in the grand scheme of things fit with Aqua's sojourn in the RoD? I guess time runs differently there...
 

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Does Dwarf Woodlands falling that late in the grand scheme of things fit with Aqua's sojourn in the RoD? I guess time runs differently there...
I think it would fit anyway as 0.2 ends during the end of KH1 and her journey through the Disney worlds beforehand seemed pretty continuous.
 

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I think it would fit anyway as 0.2 ends during the end of KH1 and her journey through the Disney worlds beforehand seemed pretty continuous.
Well, we don't know how long she stayed in what remained of Castle of Dreams, for all we know, she finished that portion just as Sora Donald and Goofy completed deep Jungle. that and we also have to factor in that it presumably took a long time for her to walk from remnant to remnant, as she exits the castle of dreams and walks on a narrow path to the dwarves house.
 

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It's not exactly canon, but it's implied. We never know which princess Maleficent abducted first or last prior to the events of KH 1, so it's left up to interpretation. My head canon is that Aurora was first (obviously) then Cinderella, then Snow white after Deep Jungle is completed, Alice, Jasmine and then Belle. Dwarf woodlands falling would be a sort of "Sora wasn't fast enough" situation" and it fell because SDG didn't reach it in time (at least if we're trying to keep things canon and ignore what could/couldnt be used in KH 1). Beast's castle would have to be sometime after Neverland because Maleficent first hears the beast's roar before Sora Donald and Goofy arrive there, and she says it in a way that implies he JUST arrived there after his world fell. So think of it what you will, I think it's canon and shows how fast Maleficent is abducting these ladies, other people think its just a separate timeline thing.
It kind of makes sense when you think of it that way. I always assumed it took Maleficent a while to find the princesses. ALso, it sort of explains why Snow White was the heart station that Sora stands on at the start of KH1 (her world was just taken before Destiny Islands).

It's sort of weird to think that Maleficent took Enchanted Dominion and Castle of Dreams (Aurora/Cinderella), then ten years later finds Snow White, Alice, Jasmine, and Belle all in the span of a few days lol. I suppose it took her ten years to completely take over Hollow Bastion (now I'm imagining this ten year war she waged against the FF crew until Ansem helped her push them out).
 

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It kind of makes sense when you think of it that way. I always assumed it took Maleficent a while to find the princesses. ALso, it sort of explains why Snow White was the heart station that Sora stands on at the start of KH1 (her world was just taken before Destiny Islands).

It's sort of weird to think that Maleficent took Enchanted Dominion and Castle of Dreams (Aurora/Cinderella), then ten years later finds Snow White, Alice, Jasmine, and Belle all in the span of a few days lol. I suppose it took her ten years to completely take over Hollow Bastion (now I'm imagining this ten year war she waged against the FF crew until Ansem helped her push them out).
Remember, the 10 year gap between KH 1 and birth by sleep only dictates the amount of time it took for Sora to grow up and the main plot to be set into motion. Because Kingdom Hearts has a very loose narrative due to the worlds operating on their own time clock, It's impossible to say stuff like "in 199X B.A (before ansem) The evil fairy Maleficent laid siege to the world of Radiant Garden, slaughtering millions and reshaping the world in her own twisted image". For all we know, it could have went something like this
-While TAV are resigned to their fates and following the first emblem heartless creations, Maleficent destroys Enchanted Dominion taking Aurora with her (this is the only constant that everyone would generally agree on, in terms of captured princesses, Aurora is captured first).
-Following this heartless pop up in various worlds and destroy them, its likely at this point that she takes Hollow Bastion for her own, as it is stated somewhere that Cid got Leon and the gang out of there "By their diapers" indicating that the trio had to be very young at the time the world fell. Castle of Dreams also falls at this point somewhere and Cinderella is captured.
-Main story comes into play, at some point Dwarf Woodlands falls BEFORE Traverse Towns keyhole is sealed by Sora, Maleficent shows Snow White alive and frightened to her cohorts.
(Also, the war that was likely waged by Maleficent and the FF crew was likely more of a one sided battle, as stated previously, the only one grown up enough to do anything was Cid and he was the reason they got to Traverse Town, probably for the best as we never see him fight anything like he does in FF VII)
 

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Remember, the 10 year gap between KH 1 and birth by sleep only dictates the amount of time it took for Sora to grow up and the main plot to be set into motion. Because Kingdom Hearts has a very loose narrative due to the worlds operating on their own time clock, It's impossible to say stuff like "in 199X B.A (before ansem) The evil fairy Maleficent laid siege to the world of Radiant Garden, slaughtering millions and reshaping the world in her own twisted image". For all we know, it could have went something like this
-While TAV are resigned to their fates and following the first emblem heartless creations, Maleficent destroys Enchanted Dominion taking Aurora with her (this is the only constant that everyone would generally agree on, in terms of captured princesses, Aurora is captured first).
-Following this heartless pop up in various worlds and destroy them, its likely at this point that she takes Hollow Bastion for her own, as it is stated somewhere that Cid got Leon and the gang out of there "By their diapers" indicating that the trio had to be very young at the time the world fell. Castle of Dreams also falls at this point somewhere and Cinderella is captured.
-Main story comes into play, at some point Dwarf Woodlands falls BEFORE Traverse Towns keyhole is sealed by Sora, Maleficent shows Snow White alive and frightened to her cohorts.
(Also, the war that was likely waged by Maleficent and the FF crew was likely more of a one sided battle, as stated previously, the only one grown up enough to do anything was Cid and he was the reason they got to Traverse Town, probably for the best as we never see him fight anything like he does in FF VII)
I don't EVER recall that "by their diapers" quote. Do you know when Cid says this? From my understanding, Hollow Bastion fell to darkness shortly after TerraNort became Ansem/Xemnas, which was maybe a 2-3 years before KH1. So there's no way that Leon was a child when Maleficent took over Hollow Bastion.
 

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I don't EVER recall that "by their diapers" quote. Do you know when Cid says this? From my understanding, Hollow Bastion fell to darkness shortly after TerraNort became Ansem/Xemnas, which was maybe a 2-3 years before KH1. So there's no way that Leon was a child when Maleficent took over Hollow Bastion.
The Fall of Hollow Bastion occurs a year after BBS. Leon comments that it occurred "9 years ago" in KH1. Why would you think it occurred so shortly before KH1?
 

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The Fall of Hollow Bastion occurs a year after BBS. Leon comments that it occurred "9 years ago" in KH1. Why would you think it occurred so shortly before KH1?
Right, I don't think Cid ever explicitly used that line, but he did mention rounding up leon and the gang as children in the manga version of KH 1. Thus, it implies that the destruction of the worlds occurred over the 10 year span instead of happening near the end of it.
 

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Sorry, this made me think of a question. Are there any details anywhere about how Maleficent came to command the Heartless? I am not clear how that comes about after BBS.
 

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Sorry, this made me think of a question. Are there any details anywhere about how Maleficent came to command the Heartless? I am not clear how that comes about after BBS.
There is not, Riku Ansem mentions that her heart was steeped in darkness and that the heartless were merely using her/feeding on her until her demise at Sora's hands. We're never given an explicit date on when that happens, though Leon and the gang do mention that she besieged Radiant Garden using heartless, so it's presumably when they first appeared in enchanted dominion. My guess is that she saw a perfect opportunity to exert control over them, as KH 2 established that they follow whoever is stronger with Saix turning heartless against her.
 
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