harlan ellison explains why you almost never see me post in the religion section

[Siren]

Dude's got my approval; he summed my feelings on the matter up rather nicely.

 

[Square Ninja]

Alright, now I've taken note to memorize and familiarize myself with every prolific and influential writer and critic of the 20th century. Seeing as that sounds horrendously opinionated, this could take me a while. Still, I don't necessarily feel like I should've known who he was, as anyone could say that about a writer/critic.

all right, remain ignorant

Funny, I didn't realize you were capable of distinguishing what I may, or may not have selectively listened to. So unless you would like to actually say something to prove that what I heard isn't what I should have perceived through listening, I'll continue to insist that I listened quite well. So please, enlighten me.

when your reply conveniently ignores the context of his words then i think i'm safe in making the educated guess

 

[Marly]

I'm asking, and am actually open to what I may have ignored or misinterpreted, and given my lack of knowledge on this particular person--not quite in a place to refute what you may say either. Yet, you still presume I "conveniently ignore the context of his words." I don't understand why you're so adamant not to share. I can only make the educated guess that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ulti]

This is a beautiful example of SN saying something and saying nothing at the same time.

 

[Square Ninja]

for fuck's sake

Harlan Ellison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm asking, and am actually open to what I may have ignored or misinterpreted, and given my lack of knowledge on this particular person--not quite in a place to refute what you may say either. Yet, you still presume I "conveniently ignore the context of his words." I don't understand why you're so adamant not to share. I can only make the educated guess that you have no idea what you're talking about.

it was about the comment of him somehow not considering the social/emotional environment and being an "extremist." he has obviously considered the possibility but has come to the conclusions that they're still doing terrible things and should be held accountable for those things. i don't see how he's an extremist other than maybe being very contentious.

i have a dry, icy vagina

 

[Solar]

the sexual tension between ulti and square ninja is killing me

 

[Square Ninja]

the sexual tension between ulti and square ninja is killing me

don't worry one day she'll crack it will be glorious trust me

 

[Dogenzaka]

yeah because taking a small portion out of context and commenting on it is just "poking fun"

It is....lol

the guy is 100% american, a society which is steeped in christian "culture" so naturally he's more likely to talk about yhvh instead of vishnu

Well then, just like most pre-conceived notions Americans have, he must then be completely wrong about the fundamental basics of Christianity.

Christianity is not at all about believing in a deity that controls everything so that it allows people to feel like they're never at blame for anything they do, it's almost a polar opposite.

Christianity is all recognizing your faults, and being careful about what you do. Christianity is all about recognizing your actions, that you are at fault, that you are a vile, wretched creature that has fallen short of the glory of God, and that you need Christ to redeem you and cleanse you of your filthy unrighteousness. Christianity is all about holding yourself accountable to God and to your Christian brothers and sisters. Christianity is all about watching your actions, and the things you say, and do, and being careful not to hurt people with them.

 

[Square Ninja]

Well then, just like most pre-conceived notions Americans have, he must then be completely wrong about the fundamental basics of Christianity.

he's not fucking talking about the fundamentals of christianity, you retard. he's talking about fuckwits that blame everything on god, good or ill.

so go peddle your magic book of words in some other thread

 

[mz. eggsy]

Christianity is all recognizing your faults, and being careful about what you do. Christianity is all about recognizing your actions, that you are at fault, that you are a vile, wretched creature that has fallen short of the glory of God, and that you need Christ to redeem you and cleanse you of your filthy unrighteousness. Christianity is all about holding yourself accountable to God and to your Christian brothers and sisters. Christianity is all about watching your actions, and the things you say, and do, and being careful not to hurt people with them.

pretty sure you just described calvinism which is just a quasi-nihilism

 

[Bukkake Sensei]

Christianity is all about recognizing your actions, that you are at fault, that you are a vile, wretched creature that has fallen short of the glory of God, and that you need Christ to redeem you and cleanse you of your filthy unrighteousness.

How depressing.

 

[Dogenzaka]

"Oh I love that phrase, 'Do you have a personal relationship with God?'...'God and I are very close'--I think it is presumptuous, and I think it is silly, because it makes you believe that you are less than what you can be. As long as you can blame everything on some unseen deity, you don't ever have to be responsible for your own behavior. And I think that is the ultimate mark of humanity..." is exactly what he said.

Maybe I don't understand the posterchild for your philosophy, but I interpreted it as him saying that the people who say they have a personal relationship with God are silly and presumptuous, and then that it allows you to blame everything on some unseen deity, so you never have to be responsible for your own behavior.

Considering he was targeting people who claim to have a "personal relationship with God", and Christians claim to have a "personal relationship with God", I can assume his umbrella audience included Christians.

But, the problem with that, as I noted, is that his statement simply doesn't comply with Christianity.

I then said Christianity does not fit that assumption that he made, because the fundamentals of Christianity are in fact almost a polar opposite. I was simply pointing out that his idea of how people use God (while fine and dandy that he believes that, whatever) simply isn't the case for Christians.

Am I going too fast for you? :l

How depressing.

It really is, actually, until a Christian looks at it like "Oh my gosh I am so OVERJOYED and GRATEFUL that God saw me as I was, 'gave me a shower' to wash off all that filth, and gave me a new life in Him."

pretty sure you just described calvinism which is just a quasi-nihilism

Except calvinism believes in strict pre-destination and doesn't stress spreading the gospel because people are 'strictly chosen' into salvation, which is not compliant with the Bible whatsoever.

 

[Solar]

How depressing.

This is why I'm Muslim

For Christ's sake, between this and original sin...

 

[Dogenzaka]

This is why I'm Muslim

Wait how is that any better?

As a Muslim you pray everyday for forgiveness of your sins, right? In fact you pray at night before you go to bed so that you don't go to bed "sinful" and subject to wrath in case you die in your sleep, right?

I'm having trouble seeing how Islam has any less of a depressing view on the state of humanity.

 

[Solar]

Uh no

I pray because God tells me to. Out of respect and love. I do ask for forgiveness afterwards. It's more of a state of meditation then anything else, a test as well.

I reject the idea humans are born "poor sinners" as you might say, especially due to some supposed mistake that was forgiven millions of years ago

 

[Dogenzaka]

Sorry if I was wrong, that's just what a Muslim told me.

I pray because God tells me to. Out of respect and love. I do ask for forgiveness afterwards. It's more of a state of meditation then anything else, a test as well.

Well obviously, me too. But don't you ask for forgiveness because you feel like you need it?

I reject the idea humans are born "poor sinners" as you might say, especially due to some supposed mistake that was forgiven millions of years ago

Uh, but Islam is a faith that believes that humans are sinners because of the fall of mankind back with Adam and Eve...just like Christianity....isn't it?

 

[Solar]

No

That's irrational, we believe God forgave them. They made a mistake. If you forgive someone, it doesn't mean:

"...and all these years later, I still haven't gotten over that one."

Besides, if how can human nature possibly be hereditary in this context? We believe humans are born neither good nor bad. Just equal

 

[Dogenzaka]

No

That's irrational, we believe God forgave them. They made a mistake. If you forgive someone, it doesn't mean:

"...and all these years later, I still haven't gotten over that one."

Well obviously God forgave them, but you don't still believe that humanity sins?

Then why do you ask for forgiveness? What have you done wrong if you don't sin?

Besides, if how can human nature possibly be hereditary in this context? We believe humans are born neither good nor bad. Just equal

Interesting.

 

[Solar]

Well obviously God forgave them, but you don't still believe that humanity sins?

Then why do you ask for forgiveness? What have you done wrong if you don't sin?



Interesting.

Of course we sin, of course we ask for forgiveness. We just don't believe it's ingrained into us. It's just often the easier and lazier way out, to sin.

But you can fight it, you can resist, you can be a good person. You're not born "wretched or despicable", especially since you believe you're made in you're god's image.

 

[Dogenzaka]

We believe humans were made in God's image, albeit with the choice of free will. Once humans sinned, however, they were separated from the purity of God. We're creations gone evil, in a sense, in the presence of a pure and holy Father. And that tarnish has existed since Adam and Eve started it, until Christ provided a way out.

Uh, woops. Anyway, totally forgot this is SN's thread. Didn't mean to hijack, sorry. Bye bye.