Concerning Nobodies and Unbirths

[m4c1]

I know there have been several threads about who Xion actually came from and if Riku had a nobody or not. Some, I believe, have wondered if either Xion or Axel actually came from Riku. I've looked back at what is said about the nobodies and Riku in the games and a little in the manga and I've concluded that Riku couldn't have had a nobody. In the game it said that a nobody is that empty shell left behind when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless. Riku was said to have a weak heart. So he couldn't have a nobody. Back to Xion, I really think that Kairi could've had two nobodies. The main reason for my thinking is because Kairi was a PoH. There could be something special about that circumstance with Kairi being a PoH. But of course, these theories on Xion can't be proven true until we find out ourselves from the game.

And about the unbirths. If I remember right, the heartless haven't come into existence yet (therefore neither could the nobodies have come around yet). And I don't really know about those of the light. But getting more into grammar here (I want to say I saw something similar to what I'm about to say), the prefix "un" is supposed to mean "not." So what if unbirths is simply supposed to mean that they haven't given birth to a being of light or darkness? I don't know where that would lead, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Anyway, just want to know what you guys think of these two things.

 

[roxasisamazing]

Riku wasnt a heartless so he cant have a Nodody

 

[Smile]

Some, I believe, have wondered if either Xion or Axel actually came from Riku.

Those are the ones we keep the pitchforks and torches for

I've looked back at what is said about the nobodies and Riku in the games and a little in the manga

Manga is non-canon. If anything was said in it that wasn't said in the games/novels/by Nomura it's just about worthless.

and I've concluded that Riku couldn't have had a nobody.

Oh bless you.

In the game it said that a nobody is that empty shell left behind when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless.

Yey Namine. Kairi's Strength of Heart = debatable. Namine = lacking the shell since Kairi kept her own and Roxas took Sora's.

Riku was said to have a weak heart. So he couldn't have a nobody.

Actually, seeing how he managed to snatch the KK from Sora, even for a short while, it shows his Heart was strong enough for him to be a Keyblade Wielder in the full sense of the word. Sora being stronger doesn't make Riku weak. And the time in which Riku could've maybe possibly somehow remotely have a Nobody is after when we see him properly Wielding in KH1.
So, not saying he has a Nobody, but he certainly was strong enough to create one should the circumstances allow for it.

Back to Xion, I really think that Kairi could've had two nobodies. The main reason for my thinking is because Kairi was a PoH. There could be something special about that circumstance with Kairi being a PoH.

Duh, her being a PoH is what gave her Namine at all. So she might have another Nobody made of "nothing" when her Heart moved to Sora's, leaving a Body (her own) for the first time.

And about the unbirths. If I remember right, the heartless haven't come into existence yet (therefore neither could the nobodies have come around yet). And I don't really know about those of the light. But getting more into grammar here (I want to say I saw something similar to what I'm about to say), the prefix "un" is supposed to mean "not." So what if unbirths is simply supposed to mean that they haven't given birth to a being of light or darkness? I don't know where that would lead, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

It might be literal, it might be ironic, it might mean nothing. Like you said, time will tell :\

Riku wasnt a heartless so he cant have a Nodody

While I realize Riku's not a freaking PoH, Kairi did prove that's not really the case. And Riku not being a PoH could make things more complicated or something. So, meh.
Also, if you're one of those like me that say SoD Ansem isn't really a Heartless, Riku never becoming a Heartless matters even less in that aspect.

 

[Xnairb]

While I realize Riku's not a freaking PoH, Kairi did prove that's not really the case. And Riku not being a PoH could make things more complicated or something. So, meh.

Wouldn't Riku not being a PoH only make things less complicated?

if you're one of those like me that say SoD Ansem isn't really a Heartless

Why would you say a thing like that? Xemnas had to be created somehow, right?

 

[Smile]

Wouldn't Riku not being a PoH only make things less complicated?

Him creating a Nobody without becoming a Heartless? I'd say that's complicated/

Why would you say a thing like that? Xemnas had to be created somehow, right?

Yes, when SoD Ansem cast off his Body. Seeing how he maintained his human form as is evident by him saying he didn't notice any transformation into a Heartless, it's arguable he didn't become one, but instead, became only a Heart, like Sora was post-purification. Sora and Xehanort being compared by Axel and Larxene is further support to this.

 

[Chakolat Strawberry]

Why would you say a thing like that? Xemnas had to be created somehow, right?

Because like Sora, Ansem SoD retained his sense of self and no transformation of a Heartless. I don't really consider him as a Heartless either

Xemnas was created like all other Nobodies(well, most)

EDIT: Rain, again...

 

[keybladelegacy]

I know there have been several threads about who Xion actually came from and if Riku had a nobody or not. Some, I believe, have wondered if either Xion or Axel actually came from Riku

Ya Riku doesnt have a nobody with the whole xehanort thing. Riku heart was sent to the realm of darkness and never became a heartless so its as if his heart was in a state of suspension until he was able to recieve his body back.

I've looked back at what is said about the nobodies and Riku in the games and a little in the manga and I've concluded that Riku couldn't have had a nobody. In the game it said that a nobody is that empty shell left behind when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless. Riku was said to have a weak heart.

His heart was weak at that time thats why Ansem SoD could take over him.

So he couldn't have a nobody. Back to Xion, I really think that Kairi could've had two nobodies.

I doubt it when her appearance is altered by sora's memories.

The main reason for my thinking is because Kairi was a PoH. There could be something special about that circumstance with Kairi being a PoH. But of course, these theories on Xion can't be proven true until we find out ourselves from the game.

Being a PoH just gives her a status of a pure heart filled with no darkness. Unable to make a heartless. But unless xion was a namine like nobdy thats the only way she could be kairis nobody.

And about the unbirths. If I remember right, the heartless haven't come into existence yet (therefore neither could the nobodies have come around yet). And I don't really know about those of the light. But getting more into grammar here (I want to say I saw something similar to what I'm about to say), the prefix "un" is supposed to mean "not." So what if unbirths is simply supposed to mean that they haven't given birth to a being of light or darkness? I don't know where that would lead, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

We know nomura said the world unbirth is giving true meaning. "Unborn"

Anyway, just want to know what you guys think of these two things.

:35:

 

[Smile]

Ya Riku doesnt have a nobody with the whole xehanort thing. Riku heart was sent to the realm of darkness and never became a heartless so its as if his heart was in a state of suspension until he was able to recieve his body back.

It wasn't really in a state of suspension otherwise I doubt Mickey would've been able to talk to him. He was just stuck in the Realm of Darkness.

His heart was weak at that time thats why Ansem SoD could take over him.

He took over because Riku let him in. And SoD Ansem being stronger wouldn't make Riku weak.

We know nomura said the world unbirth is giving true meaning. "Unborn"

A true meaning we've yet to learn.

:35:

I'd appreciate it if you stopped that.

 

[Pheonex]

Xion didn't come from Riku. Period.

 

[Muse]

I know there have been several threads about who Xion actually came from and if Riku had a nobody or not. Some, I believe, have wondered if either Xion or Axel actually came from Riku. I've looked back at what is said about the nobodies and Riku in the games and a little in the manga and I've concluded that Riku couldn't have had a nobody.

Yey.

In the game it said that a nobody is that empty shell left behind when a person with a strong heart becomes a heartless. Riku was said to have a weak heart.

No he wasn't. :/ Where did it ever say that? Riku was strong enough to wield the Keyblade, which takes a particularly strong heart, so I don't think that he would have had a weak heart.

So he couldn't have a nobody.

How about his body and soul never left to become a new being? Or the way that Riku's heart was kicked out of his body, yet his body was still possessed by Ansem SoD prevented him from becoming a Heartless and a Nobody from being born.

Back to Xion, I really think that Kairi could've had two nobodies. The main reason for my thinking is because Kairi was a PoH.

:/

There could be something special about that circumstance with Kairi being a PoH. But of course, these theories on Xion can't be proven true until we find out ourselves from the game.

Of course.

And about the unbirths. If I remember right, the heartless haven't come into existence yet (therefore neither could the nobodies have come around yet).

Yeah, Heartless and Nobodies aren't around until a few months to a year after BBS ends.

And I don't really know about those of the light. But getting more into grammar here (I want to say I saw something similar to what I'm about to say), the prefix "un" is supposed to mean "not." So what if unbirths is simply supposed to mean that they haven't given birth to a being of light or darkness? I don't know where that would lead, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Hm. Well, like what Rain said, it might be an ironic name, such as the Heartless and Nobodies being ironic since the Heartless are the hearts and the Nobodies are the body and soul.

 

[Xnairb]

Him creating a Nobody without becoming a Heartless? I'd say that's complicated/

But he didn't create a Nobody, and thats why it's not complicated...

Yes, when SoD Ansem cast off his Body. Seeing how he maintained his human form as is evident by him saying he didn't notice any transformation into a Heartless, it's arguable he didn't become one, but instead, became only a Heart, like Sora was post-purification. Sora and Xehanort being compared by Axel and Larxene is further support to this.

I see what you're saying, so Sora went through the same process of discarding his body as SoD Ansem did, but wouldn't that mean that he would need a PoH to purify him as well? And if that is the case, wouldn't he have noticed that, rather than noting that the transformation was unnoticeable?

 

[Smile]

I see what you're saying, so Sora went through the same process of discarding his body as SoD Ansem did, but wouldn't that mean that he would need a PoH to purify him as well? And if that is the case, wouldn't he have noticed that, rather than noting that the transformation was unnoticeable?

Notice I said that Xehanort was compared to Sora post purification. Sora did indeed become a Heartless, and only later regained human form. Xehanort kept his human form, hence why it's debatable whether or not he became a Heartless to begin with, or just a Heart.

 

[m4c1]

No he wasn't. :/ Where did it ever say that? Riku was strong enough to wield the Keyblade, which takes a particularly strong heart, so I don't think that he would have had a weak heart.

How about his body and soul never left to become a new being? Or the way that Riku's heart was kicked out of his body, yet his body was still possessed by Ansem SoD prevented him from becoming a Heartless and a Nobody from being born.

Sorry...I got that from the manga and I didn't know that the manga doesn't count...I'll remember that from now on

That does make sense.

 

[hiddenblade]

m4c1 this is a very intresting theroy but um I was just wonderingdid you get your kairi haveing two nobodys from another post because it sounds just like mine which I typed a while back after someone else typed something like what I typed before they typed it if you dont get what I am saying than I will say it right now I THINK THAT SOMEONE ELSE COPYED ME AND NOW i am not accuseing you of anythng but I think you may have accedently copyed me

I am sorry for the caps

p.s I am sorry if you thought of this by your self completly very very sorry

 

[Smile]

m4c1 this is a very intresting theroy but um I was just wonderingdid you get your kairi haveing two nobodys from another post because it sounds just like mine which I typed a while back after someone else typed something like what I typed before they typed it if you dont get what I am saying than I will say it right now I THINK THAT SOMEONE ELSE COPYED ME AND NOW i am not accuseing you of anythng but I think you may have accedently copyed me

I am sorry for the caps

Kairi having two Nobodies is the #1 theory about Xion o.o; it's practically what Nomura's been forcing down our throats in the trailers XD; so you're probably not the first to have came up with it, and I assure you you won't be the last until Xion is properly explained.

 

[Muse]

m4c1 this is a very intresting theroy but um I was just wonderingdid you get your kairi haveing two nobodys from another post because it sounds just like mine which I typed a while back after someone else typed something like what I typed before they typed it if you dont get what I am saying than I will say it right now I THINK THAT SOMEONE ELSE COPYED ME AND NOW i am not accuseing you of anythng but I think you may have accedently copyed me

I am sorry for the caps

Yeah, well, you're not the first to come up with this, and you won't be the last. :/ I can guarantee you this. And while he may have the same idea as you, I doubt he really copied you.

Me personally, I believe that Xion being affected by *ahem* Sora's memories, not Kairi's nor Riku's, shows more of a connection between her and Sora than it does with anyone else.

 

[Wehrmacht]

I THINK THAT SOMEONE ELSE COPYED ME

Welcome to a world where everything's already been done before you.

 

[Smile]

Me personally, I believe that Xion being affected by *ahem* Sora's memories, not Kairi's nor Riku's, shows more of a connection between her and Sora than it does with anyone else.

Yeah well Namine being Kairi's Nobody with powers over Sora's Memories and AtW originally theorizing Namine's powers came as a result of Kairi's Heart being in contact with Sora's and not as a direct result of her birth's circumstances kind of make Xion being Kairi's Nobody not that unthinkable.
She was born on the night of the storm or something when Kairi's Heart moved into Sora's Body. Then the eventual connection between their Hearts is what made the Memories leak to Xion and give her the Keyblade.

 

[neoshadow_666]

i havn't read most of this thread, but did anyone read the ansem reports in kh2? it explains a lot about the existence of both roxas and namine.
it says that kairi didnt have a heartless cuz she had no darkness in her heart and her nobody was made from sora's body, as was roxas's

as for riku, his heart was weak cuz only weak hearts succumb to darkness. he was kinda like a heartless in the fact that his body was occupied by ansem/xehanorts heartless with the powr of darkness, its all just really confusing.

 

[Smile]

i havn't read most of this thread,

Never a recommended course of action. Also, Roxas and Namine aren't really relevant to this thread.

as for riku, his heart was weak cuz only weak hearts succumb to darkness.

Xehanort had a weak Heart? o.o; that's good to know.

he was kinda like a heartless in the fact that his body was occupied by ansem/xehanorts heartless with the powr of darkness, its all just really confusing.

Heartless cast off their Bodies. Riku was kicked out of his by another Heart. How is that anything alike?